IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

ronsh2000

Deleted User wrote: »

Somebody was telling me today that you can now be fined for having an open container out your back garden collecting water. Thought it was a joke until somebody else said it. I looked it up on the internet but didnt hear anything. Is this true ? ?

It sounds like the sort of ****e people would be saying at the protest, whilst simultaneously complaining about media "propaganda".

Muahahaha

The Gardai themselves had said that the Merrion Street venue was designed to hold 60,000. Organisers on stage made announcements for people at the back to stop pushing up towards the stage as there was no longer any space. At that point I was on Nassau St near the junction of Kildare St and the Gardai were no longer letting people in to Merrion Square as it was now full up. So by the Garda's own reckoning a space that they said was designed to safely hold 60,000 people was full up and by my reckoning there was still at least 15,000-20,000 people right along the length of Nassau Street trying to get to Merrion Square. I'm really not sure where the Gardai are coming up with this 35,000 figure because their own safety plan and what actually happened appears to me to totally contradict that.

Anyway I had a great day at it, was wonderful to talk to so many people from around the country, ordinary decent people who weren't wearing any party logos or flags, people who are just sick of this government and its lies, spin and deceit, they really are a carbon copy of the dying days of the Fianna Fail govt in 2010.

Between the last protest and now FG has lost 4% in the polls and are now on a low not seen since the dark days of 2002. The next few polls are going to be very interesting, if FG's trend continues and they slip to 17% or less then more than 50% of their sitting TD's are going to lose their seats, won't be long till the knives come out for Enda when that happens. Todays protest was another step in progress to making that speed up, FG are deeply unpopular now and Enda himselg has seen his approval rating drop from over 53% in 2011 to 18% today. He has the exact same approval rating from the public as Brian Cowen did in the dying days of the last government.

Muahahaha

ronsh2000 wrote: »

It sounds like the sort of ****e people would be saying at the protest, whilst simultaneously complaining about media "propaganda".

You do know its in your Irish Water contract that Irish Water claims ownership of the rain out of the sky? Its already been discussed on this thread and others, if you don't believe it and think it is just "propaganda" then you clearly haven't read the contract you signed with them, which isn't the smartest thing tbh

KERSPLAT!

Wurly wrote: »

Regardless of what anyone thinks of IW or the protesting, this behaviour by the gardai is a disgrace! it's a wonder this didn't appear on RTE News. But we all know why it didn't!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=745807175498517

What happened for those of us not on FB?

bodhrandude

Was it my imagination that this thread was locked about 40 minutes ago, I seen no warnings or mod notes.

Wurly

ronsh2000 wrote: »

It sounds like the sort of ****e people would be saying at the protest, whilst simultaneously complaining about media "propaganda".

Em no, actually. If you spent more time doing your research and not trying to be 'witty', then you would know that Dublin City Council have said the following:

"All rainwater harvesting systems must be approved in advance. If you would like to discuss your options for rainwater harvesting system please contact Irish Water…"

People have been arrested in the states for collecting rainwater and their water system (in some states) is privatised. Do you not think we're heading the same way here? Are you THAT naive?

Propaganda again, yeah? Educate yourself FFS

Borders no.2

The water issue will eventually peter out but while 30-40 thousand mightn't appear to be many people, up until a few months back if you got more than 100 or 200 at any protest it was a surprise.

In an overall medium-long term context, anyone who thinks this is the end of ever increasing taxes being imposed would be very naive. The Anglo can that has been kicked down the road a few years to try and delude everyone that our financial state is better than it is will be falling due before we know it. Where is the revenue going to come from to pay that? The unemployment rate will not go down enough to get it through tax on work and reduced unemployment benefit payments. For all the talk from Enda about if you vote us back in, there is no talk in relation to what the plan is to deal with that.

An even bigger issue is pensions. €800 million a year for water will be small fry when the pensions sh*t storm hits. We made a half arsed attempt at trying to build up a pension pot (about €20bn I think, Norway is something like €355bn, they have been lucky with natural resources etc. but they've spent it wisely) which was flushed down the toilet with the bank debt and no-one has made any attempt to look at this issue subsequently. I haven't seen anyone raise it in the Dáil or in the media but looking at the demographics, we will not be able to support all the pensions that need to be paid with the current workforce even allowing for Ireland getting back to lower unemployment levels. There was a bit of a baby boom in the last few years but the way things are going with college, degrees, masters etc. it'll be another 20 years before many of these pay any tax (if they wait around)

Someone is going to have to make a big decision regarding pensions, the three options are bad but someone must address it.
1. Cut pensions to account for the greater number of pensioners
2. Increase the pension age
3. Already overburdened tax payer pays more.

No political party is going to take on the pensioners as that's where their votes come from. While everyone deserves their pension entitlements, it is going to get to a case where there is just too many pensioners to continue paying the same level of pensions. Of course no-one will look at this until we arrive at a crisis situation again by which stage it'll be too late.

KERSPLAT!

bodhrandude wrote: »

Was it my imagination that this thread was locked about 40 minutes ago, I seen no warnings or mod notes.

That was me, a lot of reported posts and 20+ pages to read through. Very difficult if a thread is still moving and more reports coming in, so I closed it for 5 mins +/-

Skylinehead

Wurly wrote: »

Em no, actually. If you spent more time doing your research and not trying to be 'witty', then you would know that Dublin City Council have said the following:

"All rainwater harvesting systems must be approved in advance. If you would like to discuss your options for rainwater harvesting system please contact Irish Water…"

People have been arrested in the states for collecting rainwater and their water system (in some states) is privatised. Do you not think we're heading the same way here? Are you THAT naive?

Propaganda again, yeah? Educate yourself FFS

That's for rainwater systems that are designed to make water potable. Makes sense that they'd want to maintain some sort of quality control no?

Muahahaha

Muahahaha wrote: »

You do know its in your Irish Water contract that Irish Water claims ownership of the rain out of the sky? Its already been discussed on this thread and others, if you don't believe it and think it is just "propaganda" then you clearly haven't read the contract you signed with them, which isn't the smartest thing tbh

so it is true ?

Wurly

Skylinehead wrote: »

That's for rainwater systems that are designed to make water potable. Makes sense that they'd want to maintain some sort of quality control no?

And where did you hear this? Who's your source?

gandalf

ronsh2000 wrote: »

So is it, or is it not, about the water charges?

I have been very clear in my reasons for opposition to Irish Water

1. Data Protection - has been addressed in a very waffly way by the company eventually to a query I sent into them over two months ago.
2. PPS Numbers - gone
3. Guarantee that public ownership is enshrined in the constitution so a future government cannot "sell the family" jewels. - Doesn't look like it's coming (yet!) - That's a biggy for me.
4. Cronyism - The whole setup for Irish Water stinks to high heaven. From the awarding of the Water meter installation, the consultant fees, jobs for ex Public Servants who failed in the maintenance of the water network when they had responsibility for it in the County Councils.
5. We already pay for Water through multiple other tax streams. Significantly reduce or remove those and then I we can talk about this new consumption based tax.

They are my major issues. The Government have dealt with some of the minor ones but they have not dealt with the major ones. The pivotal one for me is the enshrining of the public ownership in the constitution via a referendum.

falan

Home since about 11. Great day, great turnout. I haven't followed the thread today but I can imagine some of the crap posted by the pro side while we were dancing in the streets. I had a great day anyway. Even met someone on the bus and spent the day with them and got their number

ronsh2000

Muahahaha wrote: »

You do know its in your Irish Water contract that Irish Water claims ownership of the rain out of the sky? Its already been discussed on this thread and others, if you don't believe it and think it is just "propaganda" then you clearly haven't read the contract you signed with them, which isn't the smartest thing tbh

I don't think it's illegal to leave an open container out in your back yard to collect rain water; correct me if I'm wrong. I think this whole controversy is about water infrastructure, rather than the rain that falls out of the sky. If you think the water that falls out of the sky somehow, magically, makes it way, purified, into your tap, and then wends it way safely into the ocean after you're done processing it, without cost, then maybe you need to grow up and start living in the real world.

ronsh2000

gandalf wrote: »

I have been very clear in my reasons for opposition to Irish Water

1. Data Protection - has been addressed in a very waffly way by the company eventually to a query I sent into them over two months ago.
2. PPS Numbers - gone
3. Guarantee that public ownership is enshrined in the constitution so a future government cannot "sell the family" jewels. - Doesn't look like it's coming (yet!) - That's a biggy for me.
4. Cronyism - The whole setup for Irish Water stinks to high heaven. From the awarding of the Water meter installation, the consultant fees, jobs for ex Public Servants who failed in the maintenance of the water network when they had responsibility for it in the County Councils.
5. We already pay for Water through multiple other tax streams. Significantly reduce or remove those and then I we can talk about this new consumption based tax.

They are my major issues. The Government have dealt with some of the minor ones but they have not dealt with the major ones. The pivotal one for me is the enshrining of the public ownership in the constitution via a referendum.

they're not Paul Murphy's gripes.

the groutch

so will we ever really find out how many attended today?
all we know is it's somewhere between 20,000 and 150,000.

hatrickpatrick

falan wrote: »

Even met someone on the bus and spent the day with them and got their number

Protests can be incredible for hook ups.
Perhaps we should publicize this little known fact in advance of the next protest, to jack up the numbers?

SwiftJustice

Wurly wrote: »

Em no, actually. If you spent more time doing your research and not trying to be 'witty', then you would know that Dublin City Council have said the following:

"All rainwater harvesting systems must be approved in advance. If you would like to discuss your options for rainwater harvesting system please contact Irish Water…"

People have been arrested in the states for collecting rainwater and their water system (in some states) is privatised. Do you not think we're heading the same way here? Are you THAT naive?

Propaganda again, yeah? Educate yourself FFS

Well I googled that quote and came up with no link to Dublin City Council or Irish Water, just random propaganda Facebook pages. Show the quote in its full context and provide a link to the original source.

wretcheddomain

the groutch wrote: »

so will we ever really find out how many attended today?
all we know is it's somewhere between 20,000 and 150,000.

When the Gardai put the original protest several weeks ago at 70,000+, the anti-Water brigade accepted it. When the same Gardai put today's protest at 30,000-35,000, the anti-Water brigade blame Denis O'Brien and other such malevolent forces. They want to have their cake and eat it, or have their water and drink it in this particular case.

dloob

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

What happened for those of us not on FB?

Couple of lads are pushing and shoving a few guards at the start and get pushed back and one falls over so they come back for more with the same result.
Sloppy editing on this one, they usually are better are cutting out the bits where the protestors start the confrontation.

gandalf

ronsh2000 wrote: »

they're not Paul Murphy's gripes.

As I said he and the rest of the so-called leadership are all hanging onto the coat tails of this protest. People are driving this not the hangers on from Sinn Fein, Socialist Party, Eirigi or any other organisation.

Also a lot of those people will be protesting with numerous different gripes. Irish Water is the straw that has broken all our backs. This Government and their lack of real visible and material reform is now reaping it's just rewards.

2moreMinutes

Muahahaha wrote: »

You do know its in your Irish Water contract that Irish Water claims ownership of the rain out of the sky? Its already been discussed on this thread and others, if you don't believe it and think it is just "propaganda" then you clearly haven't read the contract you signed with them, which isn't the smartest thing tbh

As a matter of interest, do you have a link or know the section of the T&C's that states this? Doesn't seem to say it on the booklet I got in the post and I haven't registered online yet.

Wurly

SwiftJustice wrote: »

Well I googled that quote and came up with no link to Dublin City Council or Irish Water, just random propaganda Facebook pages. Show the quote in its full context and provide a link to the original source.

Here http://www.irelandwastewater.ie/latest-news/applications-open/ it says that you need permission from your local authority.

And here Dublin City Council refer the public to the IW site.http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-your-drinking-water-rainwater-harvesting/rainwater

bigroad

I think the main point here is that a lot of people from all corners of the country protested today ,i would say it cost a lot of them a fair few quid to be there.
If even there was fifty tho protesting on a midweek day what would the numbers be on a saturday.
The people of this country are pijssed off and want change simple as.

2moreMinutes

Wurly wrote: »

Here http://www.irelandwastewater.ie/latest-news/applications-open/ it says that you need permission from your local authority.

And here Dublin City Council refer the public to the IW site.http://www.dublincity.ie/main-menu-services-water-waste-and-environment-your-drinking-water-rainwater-harvesting/rainwater

The first link re permission is for planning permission which is reasonable I'd have thought.
The second link is then the local authority referring you onto IW for more information. This would also seem reasonable since they're now the responsible body.

I'm not seeing where it's stating they're not allowed?

Rubber_Soul

Muahahaha wrote: »

You do know its in your Irish Water contract that Irish Water claims ownership of the rain out of the sky? Its already been discussed on this thread and others, if you don't believe it and think it is just "propaganda" then you clearly haven't read the contract you signed with them, which isn't the smartest thing tbh

Irish Water didn't send out any contracts, it sent out application forms for allowances. It never claimed ownership of the rain either, you've always had to have rainwater harvesting systems approved by LA's in order to ensure proper systems are used and not compromising water quality.

waking dreams

What are the pro water charges people on here getting out of being pro water charges? What is the good side to these charges? Genuine interest.

Wurly

2moreMinutes wrote: »

The first link re permission is for planning permission which is reasonable I'd have thought.
The second link is then the local authority referring you onto IW for more information. This would also seem reasonable since they're now the responsible body.

I'm not seeing where it's stating they're not allowed?

Ring the council for clarification then. I did. And they told me I needed permission from Irish Water. If you don't believe me, then call them yourself.

gandalf

2moreMinutes wrote: »

The first link re permission is for planning permission which is reasonable I'd have thought.
The second link is then the local authority referring you onto IW for more information. This would also seem reasonable since they're now the responsible body.

I'm not seeing where it's stating they're not allowed?

The Dublin City website page has been amended. A couple of days ago it did say that you had to get the approval of Irish Water before you installed a rainwater harvesting system.

SwiftJustice

Wurly wrote: »

Here

it says that you need permission from your local authority.

And here Dublin City Council refer the public to the IW site.

The first link is to a private ltd company webpage.

The 2nd link says nothing.

You havn't a clue what your talking about. Basically the law states that you don't need planning permission if your collecting of water from a non-asbestoes roof and the size of your storage tank is within the the below limits (you'd need a massive garden to house such a tank).

1. No such structure situated fully
underground shall exceed 10 metres in
length, 5 metres in width or 4 metres in
depth.
2. No such structure that is totally or partially
above ground shall exceed 5 metres in length,
5 metres in width or 4 metres in height.
3. All such structures shall have a solid,
impervious roof.
4. No unpainted metal sheeting shall be used
for roofing or on the external finish of the
structure.

Taken from DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE, FOOD AND THE MARINE
MINIMUM SPECIFICATION FOR RAINWATER HARVESTING EQUIPMENT