IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Falthyron

DamagedTrax wrote: »

thats a pretty remedial level of protest understanding that you're displaying.

if 5 people are angry about something the chances are that 1 will speak out about it. protest works the same way. for everyone of us that went out yesterday, there's many more that had to work, mind kids, or are generally terrified of the government and lack of regard they have for the safety and well being of the people they work for.

No, it is not. I took one group in society (people on Social Welfare) and asked a reasonable question. If only 1 in 5 speak about it, as you suggest, my question is why only 1 in 5? Especially when this particular group may not have as many responsibilities as those in employment. Sure, I will accept obligations towards children, but apart from that, what else is there? We are talking about 250,000 people. 250,000 who could have turned up, but chose not to. And since the primary reason for other groups not going is work, what does this say about the Social Welfare group? Maybe they just don't believe in the cause as much as you suggest, when in fact, they are the first group who need immediate attention to restore this country.

ROCKMAN

Falthyron wrote: »

There are 350,000 people on Social Welfare. That is 350,000 people who have the time to protest and who can not afford the Water charges, and are generally angry at the government for lack of employment opportunities. Why is it that the protest can only muster up 30,000-40,000? If your ballpark and laughable figure of 100,000 is accepted, where are the other 250,000 people? Is it possible they actually agree/understand with what is necessary?

Would love a response to that question.

Maybe because of all these jobs the government are reportedly creating that thousands had job interviews yesterday .

AboutaWeekAgo

Falthyron wrote: »

No, it is not. I took one group in society (people on Social Welfare) and asked a reasonable question. If only 1 in 5 speak about it, as you suggest, my question is why only 1 in 5? Especially when this particular group may not have as many responsibilities as those in employment. Sure, I will accept obligations towards children, but apart from that, what else is there? We are talking about 250,000 people. 250,000 who could have turned up, but chose not to. And since the primary reason for other groups not going is work, what does this say about the Social Welfare group? Maybe they just don't believe in the cause as much as you suggest, when in fact, they are the first group who need immediate attention to restore this country.

Maybe people on social welfare couldn't afford to travel to the march? It's not like they are living the big life on €188 euro, I'm sure so close to Christmas they didn't have the money to spend on train tickets etc

DamagedTrax

Falthyron wrote: »

No, it is not. I took one group in society (people on Social Welfare) and asked a reasonable question. If only 1 in 5 speak about it, as you suggest, my question is why only 1 in 5? Especially when this particular group may not have as many responsibilities as those in employment. Sure, I will accept obligations towards children, but apart from that, what else is there? We are talking about 250,000 people. 250,000 who could have turned up, but chose not to. And since the primary reason for other groups not going is work, what does this say about the Social Welfare group? Maybe they just don't believe in the cause as much as you suggest, when in fact, they are the first group who need immediate attention to restore this country.

you're basically implying that everyone on social welfare is anti water charges.
they're not.

you're also implying that only the people protesting yesterday are against the charges.
you'd be wrong.


im not sure where you live or your personal economic situation so all i will say is this: i live in a sh1t area, i mean a REALLY sh1t area, our population is generally made up of scum, the elderly and a few decent folk in between. at our local protest recently, the streets were packed with close to 1500 people, a lot of whom couldnt physically manage yesterday's protest for a number of varying reasons, age|health just being one of them. this happened in hundreds of estates and towns around the country just a few weeks ago.

falan

Also a lot of people get paid weekly on a Thursday or Friday so they might not been able to afford to go on a wednesday...Can't wait until Jan 31st

Going Forward

ROCKMAN wrote: »

You should really check out the debate/conversation between Vincent Brown and Sean Kyne last night on the proposed legislation and its wording . And see if you can still honestly say/ think the chances of future privatisation is still such a remote possibility.

+1 And no one could give a reason why the rush to set up Irish Water.

There was another Labourgale gent on Morning Ireland earlier basically promising the network would be brought up to scratch as a result of charging for water.

He wanted listeners to believe that:

A. The €150 million to be raised by domestic billing will repair the network and
B. The current charging plan is permanent.


Lies.

Are Fine Gael so smart as to be actively planning their own temporary political suicide, and deliberately allow SF and independents win the next election, make a balls of everything, so that Fine Gael will once more be required to be brought in to solve another "financial crisis caused by the previous administration"?

Nothing would surprise me at this point, because no stroke is beyond Fine Gael going by what theyre doing to get the public to swallow Irish Water.

keithclancy

Streetwalker wrote: »

Most (not all) of the pro water side are in well paid jobs or pensions with little or no financial worries. It's classic divide and conquer tactics being used by the government in conjunction with state and DOB media. Clearly it's not working as seen by yesterdays wonderful turnout.

You keep saying Pro Water side (i.e. Pro Irish Water)

It is not that simple,

Some are:
Anti water charges
Anti water charges when the service is not improved
Anti water meters
Anti Semi-State body.

Some are:
Pro Service Improvement
Pro Transparency
Pro Public Accountability
Pro Access to Potable drinking water

And the above even overlap with each other.

Many many people were protesting for different things, Pro-Abortion, Anti-Abortion, Anti-Austerity, Anti-Eviction.

I think there are very very few that are Pro Irish Water in it's current form, I can only speak for myself but I don't think burning the whole thing down (IW) and kicking out the existing Government is the best way to resolve problems.

Sure, it would feel morally great, but would not be the best choice for the collective of Ireland as a whole.

masculinist

I'm glad to hear the crowds were high on Dec 10 and severely disappointed at the menacing attitudes of Gardai with ''attack'' dogs.
Any dog held by a Gard at a protest , held by Gards who push and shove innocent people to the ground [as I witnessed on video]- any dog held on a leash under such circumstances has no right to expect not to be called an attack dog.

I was in casualty on Dec 10 as I had an accident the day before but I was there at the march in spirit. I will be there on crutches at the next one if I have to no matter what the weather !

yipeeeee

Is there anything to be said for Ireland been the most prosperous country in Europe and the rise in employment?

No?

Ok so.

Falthyron

DamagedTrax wrote: »

you're basically implying that everyone on social welfare is anti water charges.
they're not.

I implied no such thing. I am simply asking a very pertinent question. The people who feel the most disenfranchised by the government, the people who are not feeling any benefits of recovery, are those on Social Welfare. And yet, the majority of them, almost 66% of them did not turn up to the protest. Surely, that is an important issue to address?

you're also implying that only the people protesting yesterday are against the charges.
you'd be wrong.

Again, no I am not. As I said, I have focused this particular issue on just the Social Welfare group. These are people who want to work, and are trying to get work, but feel let down by the government in this area. Some protested because of cut-backs, others because of Water Charges, and others because they feel the government are doing a bad job. But, as I said, those on Social Welfare are struggling the most. Why did more than half of them not turn up?

im not sure where you live or your personal economic situation so all i will say is this: i live in a sh1t area, i mean a REALLY sh1t area, our population is generally made up of scum, the elderly and a few decent folk in between. at our local protest recently, the streets were packed with close to 1500 people, a lot of whom couldnt physically manage yesterday's protest for a number of varying reasons, age|health just being one of them. this happened in hundreds of estates and towns around the country just a few weeks ago.

If the number you give is true, this is a commendable achievement, but toothless in the end. A mass demonstration, needs exactly that; mass. The momentum behind this campaign is gone now. The longer it goes on, the more it will dwindle with lack of enthusiasm. The last march ~100,000 (if that number is accurate) was the best opportunity, and it achieved something. Small protests in towns/estates elsewhere does not matter to public opinion. You need one large, massive, demonstration to overwhelm with numbers. The anti-IW protests will now be viewed as nothing but inconvenience to others should it continue. Numbers will fall and people will feel deflated. They should stop now for a couple of months, and give people the time and chance to reassemble in a much larger demonstration, and I am talking 250,000+. That will make people sit up and pay attention.

Cantona's Collars

A lot of "reasonable people" there yesterday.There were even off duty & retired gardai marching-a far cry from what pro-govt cronies call protestors.

It's grown from anti-water to anti-cronyism/quango/jobs for the boys/let's fleece the people protesting.People are fed up being asked time & again to pay for the waste of this & the previous government.A new dawn was promised by FG/Labour but as soon as they got into power,the clouds of greed soon blocked out this new dawn.

AboutaWeekAgo

yipeeeee wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for Ireland been the most prosperous country in Europe and the rise in employment?

No?

Ok so.

I keep seeing this said a lot. Talk a walk along any street in the country ask people how prosperous their life is, I doubt you'll get many that agree with you. All this talk of recovery this recovery that but I can't see? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places?

keithclancy

masculinist wrote: »

I'm glad to hear the crowds were high on Dec 10 and severely disappointed at the menacing attitudes of Gardai with ''attack'' dogs.
Any dog held by a Gard at a protest , held by Gards who push and shove innocent people to the ground [as I witnessed on video]- any dog held on a leash under such circumstances has no right to expect not to be called an attack dog.

I was in casualty on Dec 10 as I had an accident the day before but I was there at the march in spirit. I will be there on crutches at the next one if I have to no matter what the weather !

Would you prefer they dressed up as Barney the Dinosaur and had poodles ?

DamagedTrax

Falthyron wrote: »

If the number you give is true, this is a commendable achievement, but toothless in the end. A mass demonstration, needs exactly that; mass. The momentum behind this campaign is gone now. The longer it goes on, the more it will dwindle with lack of enthusiasm. The last march ~100,000 (if that number is accurate) was the best opportunity, and it achieved something. Small protests in towns/estates elsewhere does not matter to public opinion. You need one large, massive, demonstration to overwhelm with numbers. The anti-IW protests will now be viewed as nothing but inconvenience to others should it continue. Numbers will fall and people will feel deflated. They should stop now for a couple of months, and give people the time and chance to reassemble in a much larger demonstration, and I am talking 250,000+. That will make people sit up and pay attention.

even taking away the fact that in a few short months we've had bigger protests on the streets than we've had in a long time, the movement is not just about numbers on the street. there is the non compliance end as well and judging by the numbers of 'returned' (read spoiled) packs to IW, this is where the government will really see the size and power of the protest.

they have no recourse to collect the money, no taxman to demand it, no company willing to push thru the courts to reclaim AND it wont affect credit rating.... a cynical man might draw the conclusion that they dont actually care about the money as the company will probably just be sold of to jpmorgan anyway.


if, given the above and after all the bad will FG & mini FG have managed to produce for themselves, do you honestly think this protest is done?

the government got the message, they know their time is up. you only had to look at that eejit on vincent browne last night to realise this. he was trotted out to read a script and when he was pulled on the wording scam, he **** himself. you could actually see his lip quiver when he realised that browne had him in the corner.

do we want a party of quivering lips running this country?

yipeeeee

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

I keep seeing this said a lot. Talk a walk along any street in the country ask people how prosperous their life is, I doubt you'll get many that agree with you. All this talk of recovery this recovery that but I can't see? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places?

I can only imagine how bad things are in the countries that aren't prosperous at the moment so.

Timberrrrrrrr

masculinist wrote: »

I'm glad to hear the crowds were high on Dec 10 and severely disappointed at the menacing attitudes of Gardai with ''attack'' dogs.
Any dog held by a Gard at a protest , held by Gards who push and shove innocent people to the ground [as I witnessed on video]- any dog held on a leash under such circumstances has no right to expect not to be called an attack dog.

I was in casualty on Dec 10 as I had an accident the day before but I was there at the march in spirit. I will be there on crutches at the next one if I have to no matter what the weather !

Clarify "Attack dog" for me please

Cantona's Collars

900k contacted IW,they won't say how many of those contacts were people telling them to piss off.
It's easy to spin figures to paint a picture of compliance.

DamagedTrax

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Clarify "Attack dog" for me please

we're not going to agree on much in this thread but we will this time.. as an owner of a restricted breed and having been around working dog shows, i can tell you i'd rather be attacked by a police dog than any other.

ive been on the frightening end of a malinois during some defence training and i can tell you those animals are exceptionally trained. the have restraint bred and worked into them.

its the humans behind the leads that would worry me, all the dog will do is hold you in place.

falan

yipeeeee wrote:

Is there anything to be said for Ireland been the most prosperous country in Europe and the rise in employment?

Can you provide a link from an outside reputable source?

AboutaWeekAgo

zerks wrote: »

900k contacted IW,they won't say how many of those contacts were people telling them to piss off.
It's easy to spin figures to paint a picture of compliance.

Exactly. I didn't send the pack back myself but anyone I know who did sent it back unopened or with a message on the inside for IW.

If they were really getting such a high level of compliance surely they could give out the number of people who sent back the form without signing up.

Timberrrrrrrr

falan wrote: »

Can you provide a link from an outside reputable source?

Wall st journal?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/irelands-economy-surges-ahead-of-eurozone-1411037461

Ireland's economy was the fastest-growing in Europe during the three months to June as it continued to recover from a property-market and banking collapse that forced the government to rely on financing from the International Monetary Fund and the European Union until late last year.

DamagedTrax

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Wall st journal?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/irelands-economy-surges-ahead-of-eurozone-1411037461

and our rents are shooting back up to pre crash rates...

we'll be the fastest falling again soon enough.

america is on the brink, if they fall again we're properly bolloxed.

shinzon

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Clarify "Attack dog" for me please

I believe he means this video and yes im well aware what it says underneath and dont condone it but you did ask, 1 minute 30 in,

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152508713593091

Shin

donvito99

Good morning. This is what 3,701 people looks like.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B4kT6wtIcAA-kzP.jpg:large

ROCKMAN

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

I keep seeing this said a lot. Talk a walk along any street in the country ask people how prosperous their life is, I doubt you'll get many that agree with you. All this talk of recovery this recovery that but I can't see? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong places?

What I love about these Jobs (and yes its fantastic to see ) but the Government have in the space of 2/3 years when from
"its not our remit to create jobs but to provide the right environment " to
now claiming that they are personally and solely responsible for every single one.. Christ you would swear they're driving people to interviews in their spare time....

Now I hate to use a SF figure but there also no mention of that fact we are talking about a 1 in 5 ratio between the jobs created and the amount of mostly young people forced to leave this country .

Timberrrrrrrr

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

Exactly. I didn't send the pack back myself but anyone I know who did sent it back unopened or with a message on the inside for IW.

If they were really getting such a high level of compliance surely they could give out the number of people who sent back the form without signing up.

So many people think that this form has to be signed when by simply sending it back you have acknowledged that you live there. Saw that gob****e Brendan Ogle on the news last night boasting about how he had written "No consent No contract" on his and sent it back :rolleyes:

_Kaiser_

yipeeeee wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for Ireland been the most prosperous country in Europe and the rise in employment?

No?

Ok so.

Bout as much as there is for saying another Maas

This much-vaunted "recovery" has yet to be felt on the ground by most people (maybe the likes of DoB are feeling it?). With Europe in trouble again it may be short-lived anyway

falan

DamagedTrax wrote:

the government got the message, they know their time is up. you only had to look at that eejit on vincent browne last night to realise this. he was trotted out to read a script and when he was pulled on the wording scam, he **** himself. you could actually see his lip quiver when he realised that browne had him in the corner.

I only saw a little bit of it. Vinny was ripping him to shreds. The man looked really uncomfortable. I'll watch it properly tonight.

Caliden

zerks wrote: »

900k contacted IW,they won't say how many of those contacts were people telling them to piss off.
It's easy to spin figures to paint a picture of compliance.

It's been admitted that any forms returned (even blank) are counted towards the total.

tigger123

The anti IW side need a better strategy than just "more protests". They need to kick on from here and organise something else. People are gonna get tired of taking time off work to travel to Dublin for this. Couldn't believe it when I heard the next step is another protest on January 31st.

Unless they do something different, enthusiasm and numbers are going to dwindle.