IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

moxin

bajer101 wrote: »

But to get back to my proposition. What is wrong with everyone getting a fair allowance of water paid for from central funds and anyone who exceeds that pays? What's wrong with that? Not one anti-water charge protester has agreed with this which lead me to believe that they are just using this as a protest issue.

Paying for water twice. Reduce the corresponding taxes we have paid for decades for water and then it maybe fair to charge. At the moment, we have sky high indirect taxes like motor tax and VAT which has already paid for water yet they will not reduce those indirect taxes and they try to introduce a water charge at the same time on the household. Double taxation that is.

By the way, as a top rate taxpayer who does have compassion for the less well off, our protests since have helped the less well off as the govt is reducing the water charges so far.

hatrickpatrick

bajer101 wrote: »

But to get back to my proposition. What is wrong with everyone getting a fair allowance of water paid for from central funds and anyone who exceeds that pays? What's wrong with that? Not one anti-water charge protester has agreed with this which lead me to believe that they are just using this as a protest issue.

Define a fair allowance, in your view? The 30,000 litres is nowhere near adequate, especially when it makes no provision for the number of adults living in a house.
As per the Independent article a few weeks ago, hygiene and hydration are too important health-wise for people to have to bargain on due to cost. This is my personal issue with metering - it will usher in a mentality in which people sacrifice cleaning their clothes / house, washing themselves, drinking enough water etc because it might increase their bills. If the free allowance was based on average water consumption per capita and took into account the number of people living in a house, I might be willing to get on board with it.

For example, under the current fixed allowance with exceptions only for children regime, a student house with 5 adults living in it is going to get completely f*cked over. The free allowance should apply to each individual rather than to the house as a whole.

bajer101

moxin wrote: »

Paying for water twice. Reduce the corresponding taxes we have paid for decades for water and then it maybe fair to charge. At the moment, we have sky high indirect taxes like motor tax and VAT which has already paid for water yet they will not reduce those indirect taxes and they try to introduce a water charge at the same time on the household. Double taxation that is.

By the way, as a top rate taxpayer who does have compassion for the less well off, our protests since have helped the less well off as the govt is reducing the water charges so far.

This is the exactly the kind of response I have received from every protester and why I despair. I have just outlined to you the perfect socialist solution to providing a commodity and you have skirted the issue and found it unacceptable. No mention of PPS numbers, no mention of a quango with overpaid consultants. I boiled it down to a simple solution and you don't agree - completely illogically. When this is the attitude I am inclined to believe that the democratically elected government should just bring in the charges and use whatever means necessary to take the money, because there is no talking to some people.

(BTW, if €400m is raised from collection of water charges then that is €400m less that needs to be collected from other taxes. It's not rocket surgery).

moxin

bajer101 wrote: »

This is the exactly the kind of response I have received from every protester and why I despair. I have just outlined to you the perfect socialist solution to providing a commodity and you have skirted the issue and found it unacceptable. No mention of PPS numbers, no mention of a quango with overpaid consultants. I boiled it down to a simple solution and you don't agree - completely illogically. When this is the attitude I am inclined to believe that the democratically elected government should just bring in the charges and use whatever means necessary to take the money, because there is no talking to some people.

(BTW, if €400m is raised from collection of water charges then that is €400m less that needs to be collected from other taxes. It's not rocket surgery).

Jayzus, are we dealing with a Thatcherite post here?

I simply proposed to reduce the taxes we already pay for water to compensate for the charges and yet you go on a rant in extreme right wing Tory type posts!.

700m was spent of setting up Irish Water and installing meters(rising every day) and yet you moan its not rocket surgery. That 700m quid could have been spent on fixing the 48% of water leaks but hey you ignore that!!

Identify the real waste of taxpayers money and deal with it. Good night, as a top rate taxpayer I need to get up for work tomorrow and yet again pay my taxes I have already paid for water.

Arsemageddon

bajer101 wrote: »

It's not rocket surgery).

You should be careful when mixing metaphors otherwise you'll upset the apple tart!

Allyall

Arsemageddon wrote: »

You should be careful when mixing metaphors otherwise you'll upset the apple tart!

Probably meant it's not rocket Salad.

foggy_lad

Allyall wrote: »

Probably meant it's not rocket Salad.

No no its not rocket Gibraltar:D

the immortals

bajer101 wrote: »

Yet another post from the anti brigade that just insults people while offering no real constructive criticism, argument or alternative.

Do you really want to hear all the constructive arguements, criticism, alternatives again??

Graces7

end of the road wrote: »

were not canada or the US. we have higher standards.



they do. if they are trained properly



no it won't. people not calming down isn't going to cause the police to change tactics, they use the current tactics as it means the job can be done with as little incident as possible. doing it any other way will lead to blood shed and severe violence which will make things 100 times worse. so the current way is the best.

HIGHER STANDARDS? roflol!!!:p You are hilarious! Wait and see how much more will be tolerated. Water cannon would do wonders and very appropriate indeed,, meanwhile the Gardai are raking in the overtime..

Graces7

end of the road wrote: »

it wasn't justified at all. it is okay to defy the police in certain situations. the polices word isn't always final hence why we have rules to stop the police from behaving like wild animals.

Ah a dedicated anarchist! Never Ok to defy law keeping forces. Only wild animal was the woman and she has admitted it

Graces7

end of the road wrote: »

of course. they have to buy food for their families and the weekend is the best time to do the weekly shop. unless of course you would like them to starve

:rolleyes: Tunnel vision like yours must be hard to bear!

Pocoyo

Its high time enda appears on the late late show - says Ryan Tubridy.

http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/television/tv-news/its-high-time-he-talked-to-the-people-ryan-tubridy-demands-enda-kenny-stop-hiding-and-appear-on-late-late-show-30753874.html

............Great idea tubs you can tell him how amazing he is you fool,You couldnt handle an interview with a taoiseach anyway even one of endas standard... get him on Vincent Brown.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152871261648627

FG caught lying about what is required to sell OUR water on last nights Vincent Brown.....Only 2 ministers have to agree for the sale of IW!

MagicMarker

MagicMarker wrote: »

Would someone kindly explain to me how Irish Water want me to register when I haven't received any pack, and there for no application or pin number?

Haven't been following the thread so apologies if this has been covered.

if u are not on their register due to their inefficient system you can't be billed....simple as.

I wouldn't be in any rush the way this thing is panning out.

Pat Rabbitte going on about 80k people had already signed up. Yes I did too - but since then a lot has come to light and I am furious. I among thousands of others wont be paying. Signing up does not mean paying up.

moxin

moxin wrote: »

Paying for water twice. Reduce the corresponding taxes we have paid for decades for water and then it maybe fair to charge. At the moment, we have sky high indirect taxes like motor tax and VAT which has already paid for water yet they will not reduce those indirect taxes and they try to introduce a water charge at the same time on the household. Double taxation that is.

By the way, as a top rate taxpayer who does have compassion for the less well off, our protests since have helped the less well off as the govt is reducing the water charges so far.

been saying this for ages..... reduce other taxes and there might be some hope of getting people on board. Scrap USC or TV Licence fees, reduce car tax, scrap Govt tax on credit cards. Just give us a break! Its just totally unfair. Its one thing after another with no let up!

Bring in a package like council tax that covers all these charges then at least its one figure we can break down and deal with month by month on a Direct Debit. Of course there will always be VAT on top of any bill so its double taxation anyway.

Dr. Mantis Toboggan

hmmm wrote: »

The anti water charges crowd have made a big mistake this week by letting Murphy and his crew become the face of the opposition - lobbing bricks at guards and imprisoning the Tanaiste are terrible tactics if you want to get the middle class on your side. If they had someone like Ogle leading the opposition, who is an awful lot smarter, the government would have been in serious trouble.

Personally I think the worst has passed for the government - there seems to be quite a few hotheads who will want to turn the Dail and Dublin city centre into a battleground on the 10th, and that's going to be the end of the protests as they will lose the ordinary public. The vast majority are not going to support anarchy for the sake of 160 quid.

Are you serious about Ogle??? He single handedly ruined Irish Rails freight business costing hundreds of jobs and lives in some weird pseudo communist dream land. He should be packed off to Cuba where he belongs.

MRnotlob606

I'd like to see Irish water fail.

Jakey Rolling

bajer101 wrote: »

(BTW, if €400m is raised from collection of water charges then that is €400m less that needs to be collected from other taxes. It's not rocket surgery).

Or rather, that's €400m that we won't have to borrow to provide basic services, social welfare payments etc.

How do the anti brigade propose we close the gap between our tax take and public spending? We'll be borrowing around €8billion next year, to add to the €98 billion we have borrowed since the gravy train of construction tax revenues abruptly stopped in 2008.

All this borrowing will need to be paid off by our children. I for one would rather knuckle down and make every sacrifice to sort this out now instead of kicking the can down the road for them to deal with.

_Kaiser_

Being discussed on NewsTalk at the moment...

- €60 and €160 rates expected
- Talk of attaching unpaid bills to your property but no mention of Court or Revenue
- Alan Kelly expected to formalise this at 3pm

Will it be enough? I hope not...

- Does nothing to address the cronyism in IW
- Legislation to cap the rates or prevent a future sell-off is worth feck all. Can be changed in the morning if they want (and probably will if they get another 5 years)
- I don't like this rebate nonsense that requires you to register with the Dept of Social Welfare. I get nothing from them, and want nothing to do with them. Giving them all my details doesn't sit well.

Streetwalker

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

I'd like to see Irish water fail.

It will it's inevitable at this stage. The only questions remains is how long it takes and will it bring the government down with it.

yipeeeee

How about the people who already pay it through taxes don't get charged for water and the people who don't pay taxes get charged for water??

That way no one pays for water twice.

Simples..

Streetwalker

yipeeeee wrote: »

How about the people who already pay it through taxes don't get charged for water and the people who don't pay taxes get charged for water??

That way no one pays for water twice.

Simples..

So that would leave everyone in the nation not paying then.

Allyall

Finally, some sense.
Unravelling the Jobstown spin: throwing water - or eggs - is not a violent protest

As day follows day, the legend of Jobstown grows and grows. What might have gone down as the deputy leader of an appalling government getting heckled, jostled and slightly wetted by a water balloon became a scarifying tale of a terrified 65-year-old cowering in her car while being pelted with dangerous projectiles and rocked to within an inch of her life.

Let's get real. Throwing water or eggs is not "violence". It's been a staple element of street protest for at least two millennia. A road blockade, too, is a legitimate form of protest and although she was in the car with her secretary, the Tanaiste was under the protection of the Garda Public Order Unit.

Banjo String

yipeeeee wrote: »

How about the people who already pay it through taxes don't get charged for water and the people who don't pay taxes get charged for water??

That way no one pays for water twice.

Simples..

Apart from you having some huge chip on your shoulder. There are some serious flaws in your idea.

(everyone pays taxes)

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Serious flaws in your idea.

(everyone pays taxes)

You're right


How about everyone who doesn't pay INCOME TAX pays for water.

yipeeeee

Banjo String wrote: »

Apart from you having some serious chip on your shoulder. There are some serious flaws in your idea.

(everyone pays taxes)

I wasn't been serious don't worry.

AudreyHepburn

end of the road wrote: »

throwing someone to the ground = brutality and assault

It depends on the situation.

In this case the woman had launched herself not once but twice at a head of state's car....that is not okay, not acceptable.

As I said before, who at that moment knew what her intentions were? The Gardai were there to protect and serve, and that is what they did.

The Gardai were correct in their actions here.

Banjo String

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You're right


How about everyone who doesn't pay INCOME TAX pays for water.

What if they have a car..... What if they buy things in the shop with vat on it........

Have to laugh at you lads tbh.

gandalf

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Being discussed on NewsTalk at the moment...

- €60 and €160 rates expected
- Talk of attaching unpaid bills to your property but no mention of Court or Revenue
- Alan Kelly expected to formalise this at 3pm

Will it be enough? I hope not...

- Does nothing to address the cronyism in IW
- Legislation to cap the rates or prevent a future sell-off is worth feck all. Can be changed in the morning if they want (and probably will if they get another 5 years)
- I don't like this rebate nonsense that requires you to register with the Dept of Social Welfare. I get nothing from them, and want nothing to do with them. Giving them all my details doesn't sit well.

All this will do is provide more fuel to the protestors. The speed of the cave in is impressive and all it will do is embolden the protesters to push harder.

From my perspective until Irish Water (as in the resource and not the shambles of a company) is guaranteed via the constitution to stay in the ownership of the Irish People then this isn't over. There is going to be a referendum early next year for same sex marriage they need to add on a second vote to formalise the ownership of water to the Irish People.

As for Irish Water I heard on Newstalk this morning rumblings from SIPTU that 200 staff there might go on strike because of the bonus situation.

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Apart from you having some huge chip on your shoulder. There are some serious flaws in your idea.

(everyone pays taxes)

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

You're right


How about everyone who doesn't pay INCOME TAX pays for water.

Banjo String wrote: »

What if they have a car..... What if they buy things in the shop with vat on it........

Have to laugh at you lads tbh.

As i said



INCOME TAX

gandalf

yipeeeee wrote: »

How about the people who already pay it through taxes don't get charged for water and the people who don't pay taxes get charged for water??

That way no one pays for water twice.

Simples..

The only people in the state who don't pay for water are the long term Unemployed who rent and don't own a motor vehicle!

Then again if Water is also funded via VAT takings then they do pay as well..... hmmmmm we pay five different ways for water already