IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Timberrrrrrrr

Tinkersbell wrote: »

The state has defrauded the Irish people out of €60 odd billion in order to keep their banking buddies here and in the ECB happy.
I know which one I see as the bigger crime.

So because he only defrauded the state of a couple million he should just be let off? At the end of the day the man is a thief a crook and a liar, FWIW the ECB and banking bailout was all done before the present government were in power so maybe save some of the hatred and vitriol for the people who deserve it most

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

The main difference being, Mick Wallace reached a settlement with Revenue, and is in a repayment plan.

He paid up because he got caught not because he had a guilt trip. This still does not take away from the fact that he is a liar and a fraud who seems to forget his own past when attempting to preach to others.

Fuhrer

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

So because he only defrauded the state of a couple million he should just be let off? At the end of the day the man is a thief a crook and a liar, FWIW the ECB and banking bailout was all done before the present government were in power so maybe save some of the hatred and vitriol for the people who deserve it most

The present government were in opposition weren't they?


How often did they raise their concerns?

LostinKildare

Pigfoot wrote: »

A rainbow coalition of all parties such as many small countries have. a reformed Dail with a neutral Ceann Comhairle, free vote, speaking right for all elected TD, . Force all these different ideologies to step up to the mark. Could be a disaster but we are already in a disaster. Clutching at straws seems like a good alternative to me!

ROCKMAN wrote: »

Honestly wouldn't mind seen some of this in Action ,
I would love to see the party whip system done away with and allow free voting ,
also forget the idea that Government bills always have to pass for them to stay in power. Could lead to some worthwhile and refreshing approaches and ideas .
Could be a totally disaster but how will be ever know if we don't try.
Ps can I see it happening ,NO ,but it's nice to dream.

This, a million times this! This would make such a difference in making our system democratic, in making politicians accountable to their constituents and giving the citizenry an actual voice in national policy.

I'm sick of hearing people primly say that street protests are "undemocratic", and that "you get your say at the ballot box." Street protests are the ONLY truly democratic means available to us when our representatives submit to a party whip rather than vote in the interests of the citizens whom they represent on the ground.

What is the point in every 5 years choosing and supporting a candidate based on his/her policy when that goes out the window as soon as they're elected and just do whatever their party tells them to? Give them all a free vote, and they will have to be accountable to their supporters --- do what you promised, or you're out!

To my mind, getting rid of the whip system (making all representatives somewhat "independent") --- and possibly adding a mechanism for recalling disastrous ones ---- is the Big Idea that we should push for to make Ireland radically more democratic.

Leroy42 wrote: »

Refusing to pay bonuses.. sorry since they are performance related incentives (the line always given out by IW) on what basis can they now be withheld? If its in their contracts it has to be paid. Are Enda really saying that he is happy to pay unsecured bond holders as a matter of principle but willing to tear up contracts to actual workers? Are Labour actually going to stand for that?

Yup, I can't believe that's legal, and it's mindboggling that Labour would stand over it.

gladrags wrote: »

"But we govern for the centre, we govern for the reasonable people, and reasonable people were upset by the way in which this was handled."

Those that agree with us are reasonable. Protesters are animals (hounds set upon the fox)

Tony EH

gladrags wrote: »

You would have thought that one of the journalists would have picked him up on it.

And Kenny's slurs over the last few weeks.

I'd have thought that the opposition would have picked it up.

When you're in government, you have to govern for the people. ALL of the people, because they're paying your way.

Satriale

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I have heard the phrase 'reasonable people' mentioned by various Government ministers in the last few days. I presume they were told to say it on a PR memo they received. Are they implying that anybody against the water charges are unreasonable?

Terry Crone has been on the blower i reckon. Divide and conquer.


'Reasonable people', 'reasonable people', 'reasonable people', 'reasonable people', 'reasonable people'.

"Anyone who doesn't agree with us is unreasonable".

Timberrrrrrrr

Banjo String wrote: »

Interesting take on that in today's Irish Times.

Why, wondered the Fianna Fáil leader, does it all have to be wrapped up by 10pm tomorrow night? “There is no compelling urgency here . . . stop trying to ram things through the Dáil,” he urged the Taoiseach.

From the leader of the party who rammed the bank guarantee through, Seriously? You're quoting him? :rolleyes:

gladrags

Tony EH wrote: »

Aye, it was an incredibly dumb thing to say. I'd say halfway through that sentence, his brain was saying "No, no, no...don't say that.....aww feck it."

And not one hack appears to have picked up on it.

Tony EH

LostinKildare wrote: »

Yup, I can't believe that's legal, and it's mindboggling that Labour would stand over it.

You can bet your bottom dollar that if they were in opposition, they wouldn't.

Nor would they be in favor of Irish Water and I can imagine they'd be incredibly vocal about that too.

Timberrrrrrrr

Stargate wrote: »

The "GovBots" are very silent today. Is there a secret meeting today or something?

Who are these "Govbots" you speak of? Care to name them?

SaveOurLyric

Tinkersbell wrote: »

The state has defrauded the Irish people out of €60 odd billion in order to keep their banking buddies here and in the ECB happy.
I know which one I see as the bigger crime.

The state did not defraud the Irish people out of any money. Utter nonsense to hold the position that the state would defraud it citizens.

Ireland spend money and was left with a bill of 60bn that it couldnt pay. Topics like deluding itself that it didnt have to pay for water contributing to the indebtedness.
The government had the choice, on behalf of the Irish people, to burn bond holders and let banks fail with the ensuing chaos and harmful consequences for everyone, or to pay the bill. It chose to pay the bill on behalf of the people as the lesser of two evils, and the option that would cause least harm to the economy and the welfare of all in Ireland. That the route selected has brought pain in undeniable. But that would have happened either way. Any government of any competance would have taken the same decision. It was the only sane one, and involved no defrauding.

LostinKildare

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He paid up because he got caught not because he had a guilt trip. This still does not take away from the fact that he is a liar and a fraud who seems to forget his own past when attempting to preach to others.

If Mick has to go, FG TD Regina Doherty has to go too.

http://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

tigger123

There's a live blog on the IT website covering the IW announcement.

conditioned games

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

He paid up because he got caught not because he had a guilt trip. This still does not take away from the fact that he is a liar and a fraud who seems to forget his own past when attempting to preach to others.

I heard he treated his employees very well and always looked after his suppliers. The only crowd he left out of pocket after the property crash was revenue. Still not a fan though

Timberrrrrrrr

LostinKildare wrote: »

If Mick has to go, FG TD Regina Doherty has to go too.

http://www.independent.ie/business/small-business/fine-gael-tds-firm-folds-with-debts-of-280000-29021682.html

And you think i would have an issue with this?

AboutaWeekAgo

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

The state did not defraud the Irish people out of any money. Utter nonsense to hold the position that the state would defraud it citizens.

Ireland spend money and was left with a bill of 60bn that it couldnt pay. Topics like deluding itself that it didnt have to pay for water contributing to the indebtedness.
The government had the choice, on behalf of the Irish people, to burn bond holders and let banks fail with the ensuing chaos and harmful consequences for everyone, or to pay the bill. It chose to pay the bill on behalf of the people as the lesser of two evils, and the option that would cause least harm to the economy and the welfare of all in Ireland. That the route selected has brought pain in undeniable. But that would have happened either way. Any government of any competance would have taken the same decision. It was the only sane one, and involved no defrauding.

Iceland chose to burn the bond holders, worked out ok for them.

SaveOurLyric

conditioned games wrote: »

I heard he treated his employees very well and always looked after his suppliers. The only crowd he left out of pocket after the property crash was revenue

ie. the rest of us.

Leroy42

LostinKildare wrote: »

This, a million times this! This would make such a difference in making our system democratic, in making politicians accountable to their constituents and giving the citizenry an actual voice in national policy.

I'm sick of hearing people primly say that street protests are "undemocratic", and that "you get your say at the ballot box." Street protests are the ONLY truly democratic means available to us when our representatives submit to a party whip rather than vote in the interests of the citizens whom they represent on the ground.

What is the point in choosing and supporting a candidate based on his/her policy when that goes out the window as soon as they're elected and just do whatever their party tells them to? Give them all a free vote, and they will have to be accountable to their supporters --- do what you promised, or you're out!

But does that not fall onto voters? We elect a TD based on promises. Next election they should be held accountable or not voted for. If TD A says they will fight against water charges and then votes for them due to the whip system, why would we trust them again?

But look a the amount of reserving members of the dail, the number of TD's whose main point is that their father was a TD or other nonesense.

What Howlin (or was it Rabitte?) said was right, you say things in an election campaign, youy don't need to actually stick to them. Until voters actually pay attention to what their local TDs are voting for and hold them to account why would they bother to change

SaveOurLyric

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

Iceland chose to burn the bond holders, worked out ok for them.

Sure. Not paying your bills is a great way to save money.

sjb25

Don't no how true it is but seen on the Dublin says no Facebook page some protestors are up for contempt of court today and are being sent to jail over it
Again don't no how true it is just seen it

Fuhrer

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Sure. Not paying your bills is a great way to save money.

They werent our bills.


If I wrack up a huge debt at the casino are you responsible for paying it back?

Timberrrrrrrr

conditioned games wrote: »

I heard he treated his employees very well and always looked after his suppliers. The only crowd he left out of pocket after the property crash was revenue. Still not a fan though

Saw him working at 9 oclock at night up by Stephens green in the pissing rain shoveling crap with the labourers, He drank in temple bar on a Friday would always have a couple of lads with them and was always polite and i don't think anyone else would have got into the pubs in their work clothes.

Fact is though as nice as he is/was he still broke the law and should have been kicked out of the dail and possibly jailed for his crime.

wp_rathead

Im currently renting in a 3 Person Appartment-
Lease is until August- if i then move into a 4 person house does anyone know what happens in relation to the rebate?

Its a bit of a clusterfnck the whole thing

conditioned games

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Saw him working at 9 oclock at night up by Stephens green in the pissing rain shoveling crap with the labourers, He drank in temple bar on a Friday would always have a couple of lads with them and was always polite and i don't think anyone else would have got into the pubs in their work clothes.

Fact is though as nice as he is/was he still broke the law and should have been kicked out of the dail and possibly jailed for his crime.

So we should now be putting people in jail whose businesses fail and cant meet tax liabilities to revenue? Fcuk the s*um bag protestors into jail that seek to attack contractors installing water meters and doing their job.

Caliden

wprathead wrote: »

Im currently renting in a 3 Person Appartment-
Lease is until August- if i then move into a 4 person house does anyone know what happens in relation to the rebate?

Its a bit of a clusterfnck the whole thing

Rebate??!!

No, no no. You don't get money back that's not how this slush fund charge works.

Details in 2 weeks....maybe...

Stargate

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Who are these "Govbots" you speak of? Care to name them?

LoL Timberrrrrrrr i would have thought with your doorman skills and your soldier training you wouldn't need help in spotting " them " :P

Highflyer13

sjb25 wrote: »

Don't no how true it is but seen on the Dublin says no Facebook page some protestors are up for contempt of court today and are being sent to jail over it
Again don't no how true it is just seen it

That would be a silly move. Jailing them is just going to add fuel to the fire.

SaveOurLyric

Leroy42 wrote: »

But does that not fall onto voters? We elect a TD based on promises. Next election they should be held accountable or not voted for. If TD A says they will fight against water charges and then votes for them due to the whip system, why would we trust them again?

But look a the amount of reserving members of the dail, the number of TD's whose main point is that their father was a TD or other nonesense.

What Howlin (or was it Rabitte?) said was right, you say things in an election campaign, youy don't need to actually stick to them. Until voters actually pay attention to what their local TDs are voting for and hold them to account why would they bother to change

The mistake is listening to what the candidate says at all. It is irrelevant. The guide, and its only a guide, to who you are voting for is the policy of the parties. Joke candidates like Ming, Wallace, Healy Ray are a waste of a vote. They have no power. Any given party member candidate might potentially have some power, but only to support the government party if his in power. So listening to his personal views, policies, intentions is a waste of time because the party line is what tells you what he will really do.

Daith

wprathead wrote: »

Im currently renting in a 3 Person Appartment-
Lease is until August- if i then move into a 4 person house does anyone know what happens in relation to the rebate?

Its a bit of a clusterfnck the whole thing

The rebate will only go back to the person who registered their PPS number won't it?

SaveOurLyric

Fuhrer wrote: »

They werent our bills.


If I wrack up a huge debt at the casino are you responsible for paying it back?

Not responsible. But if the consequences for me are better if I do pay it for you than if I dont, then, unhappy about it sure, but I will pay it.