IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Highflyer13

Larbre34 wrote: »

Not scientific, so pointless doing it.

Its a decent sample size and even more significant for RTE to broadcast figures leaning that way.

garhjw

Still waiting for an answer about my bicycle. Will s

Fukuyama

Pigfoot wrote: »

I'll be the first to admit i dont have much interest in politics or indeed an understanding of its finer point but to reduce it to a 12 year olds level I have never understood a system where The Dail meet to vote on a matter and individuals are told how to vote. That is ****ing nuts unless someone can explain the logic behind it!

Do you think the Séamus who lives on Tory Island knows exactly the best way to exit a bail out recovery program? If so, feel free to let Séamus manage your finances.

That's why we have a whip system (along with every other democratic nation). They're no big conspiracy at play here. Just common sense.

garhjw

Still waiting for an answer about my bicycle. Will someone keep an eye on it during the riots in town next month? Sorry i meant protests.

VinLieger

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Its a decent sample size and even more significant for RTE to broadcast figures leaning that way.

Considering Joe's audience demographic its a pretty confined sample of the population

_Kaiser_

The Taoiseach has announced that Irish Water will set up a "people's forum" to deal with public concerns.

Enda Kenny made the announcement in the Dáil this lunchtime.

(From here)

Quick Admins .. get your bid in for a new Talk To forum

On a more serious note, Kenny still seems determined to force this through regardless .. something that will only serve to harden resolve and further damage his government I think

arse..biscuits

garhjw wrote: »

Still waiting for an answer about my bicycle. Will someone keep an eye on it during the riots in town next month? Sorry i meant protests.

When there are no riots, will you admit you haven't got a clue what you are talking about?

dav3

garhjw wrote: »

Still waiting for an answer about my bicycle. Will someone keep an eye on it during the riots in town next month? Sorry i meant protests.

Post up a picture of it and where it will be located and I'm sure someone will take care of it.

howiya

Dean0088 wrote: »

What democracy doesn't have a whip system with the exception of Switzerland (and even then they still have party politics)?

Democracy is a govern by consent type of deal, but an elected government must also be allowed to govern. It's a trade off but it's a crucial one.

When the next GE comes you'll have your chance to vote for the hard-left if you so wish. Then, when they get into office upon winning they can reverse the water charges and make sweeping changes. They'll get them through the dáil because they were elected by the people.

And we can all toast marshmallows on the fire too.

Ireland is the only country I can think of where if you vote against the whip you are considered to be outside the parliamentary party. I have not seen it to be as draconian in other countries. See UK and US for examples.

I think you're missing the point of the Dail with your trade off scenario. The Dail and its members are meant to hold the Government of the day to account. This is not possible at present. Allowing them to govern unhindered results in bad legislation such as the Irish Water bill

_Kaiser_

arse..biscuits wrote: »

When there are no riots, will you admit you haven't got a clue what you are talking about?

I wouldn't bother mate.. The "joke" wasn't funny the first time, and it's still not the 20th time

ROCKMAN

Dean0088 wrote: »

Do you think the Séamus who lives on Tory Island knows exactly the best way to exit a bail out recovery program? If so, feel free to let Séamus manage your finances.

That's why we have a whip system (along with every other democratic nation). They're no big conspiracy at play here. Just common sense.

I don't know maybe he might know as much as a schoolteacher that justs goes along with whatever his advisors from Germany tell him .

Fukuyama

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i dont agree with physically harrassing them myself... BUT the police and government have only to look at their own treatment of the public, to understand where this anger stems from.

Whatever about the government - that's open to anyone political opinions.

The police in this country are fluffy bunny rabbits. Anyone winging about getting a little push (not even a baton drawn in 99% of cases) off the big bad garda should maybe think twice about charging at the taoiseachs car.

The public have a ridiculous amount of access to the taoiseach and ministers in this country. Their security detail is TINY. David Cameron travels in a security bubble where as you can walk right up to Enda Kenny and have a chat if you see him on the street (and act like a civilized adult). Most days he has two guards with him who hang back when things are quiet. Ministers often only have one garda when they're out and about. And if things are quiet you won't even see their security detail.

I'd hate to see that openness taken away due to loudmouth idiots who throw things, block cars and charge at politicians.

Highflyer13

Couldnt organize a piss up in a brewery. We pay for this shower of twats:mad:

Fukuyama

ROCKMAN wrote: »

I don't know maybe he might know as much as a schoolteacher that justs goes along with whatever his advisors from Germany tell him .

I guess this is some of that rich, informed, open debate I've been hearing about.

Noonan was a teacher. For a few years during the 1960s. I suppose every politician should study politics and economics and enter the Dáil right after college?

Political allegiances aside, I've always thought he comes across as competent and experienced (he's been working in politics since the 1970s I think) with a strong character. Perhaps he's not a great orator but I don't tend to vote for the loudmouth in any aspect of my life.

AudreyHepburn

DamagedTrax wrote: »

i dont agree with physically harrassing them myself... BUT the police and government have only to look at their own treatment of the public, to understand where this anger stems from.

There is no excuse for the animal like behavior of recent days.

I understand people's anger but you don't get to bully and harass people, chase people or trap them in their cars and then defy the Gardai when they do their job and stop you just because you are angry.

mojesius

Anyone else watching the Dail at the moment on RTE? Fcuking comical!

BBJBIG

FionnK86 wrote: »

No, they should get to run the 4 years which I've voted for them to get, and then at the end, you can vote in another lot :rolleyes:

NO WAY !!! OUT THEY GO !!!

They have done nothing but LIED to the people.
Bankers, Builders, Bondholders, EU, ECB, IMF - Foooook em all.

And the people are treated as DEBT SLAVES !!!
No way, Hose !!!

They Go - end of story !!! !!! !!!

Foooookin Bunch of Clowns ...

:mad:

howiya

Just went over to rte.ie there and the homepage carries a picture of a line of Irish Water vans that appear to be blockaded by protestors.

Now ignoring the fact that two of the them have parked in a yellow box (could be photoshopped after all), I couldn't help wonder why they would all park in a line making it easy for protestors.

Have they never heard of the divide and conquer saying?

Highflyer13

mojesius wrote: »

Anyone else watching the Dail at the moment on RTE? Fcuking comical!

Alan Kelly looks very uncomfortable delivering his speech.

_Kaiser_

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Couldnt organize a piss up in a brewery. We pay for this shower of twats:mad:

Yep.. more letters being sent out incorrectly :rolleyes:

Irish Water sent an application pack to register for water charges to a man who has been dead for almost 11 years.

The Glennon family from Kilcock, Co Kildare, were left very confused and upset after Irish Water had sent them two application packs, the second of which was addressed to their deceased father John.

Now, they are worried because the new state utility has failed to contact them about the pack addressed to John.

His daughter Niamh (22) (pictured left) said that she is very annoyed with the incident and that it has upset her mother and three younger sisters.

"About five weeks ago my mother received an Irish Water application pack but two days later we received one in my father's name," said Niamh.

"He died almost 11 years ago and we have not received post in his name for about eight years. We don't know how they got his name linked to this address."

I'm kinda curious too. What databases do this lot have access to exactly?

AudreyHepburn

Dean0088 wrote: »

Do you think the Séamus who lives on Tory Island knows exactly the best way to exit a bail out recovery program? If so, feel free to let Séamus manage your finances.

That's why we have a whip system (along with every other democratic nation). They're no big conspiracy at play here. Just common sense.

The idea that the ordinary punter on the street would be any better at running the country if they were elected, is laughable.

Firstly if you were elected into power your main concern would be, whether anyone admits it or not, to be re-elected. So you would find that you would do whatever it took regardless of whether it was popular or not.

Second if you were suddenly in a position of power and had more money than you knew what do with, I guarantee your only concern would be how best to hang to it and make more.

VinLieger

BBJBIG wrote: »

NO WAY !!! OUT THEY GO !!!

They have done nothing but LIED to the people.
Bankers, Builders, Bondholders, EU, ECB, IMF - Fooook em all.

And the people are treated as DEBT SLAVES !!!
No way, Hose !!!

They Go - end of story !!! !!! !!!

:mad:

The **** em all attitude ahh the go to defense of the below average intelligence irish voter.

Who turned the people in so called debt slaves? Pretty sure it wasnt FG.

If you think everyone else is so crap why dont you run for office yourself?

Ruu

April Fools! :eek:

Allyall

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

There is no excuse for the animal like behavior of recent days.

I understand people's anger but you don't get to bully and harass people, chase people or trap them in their cars and then defy the Gardai when they do their job and stop you just because you are angry.

Who were the animals? The Garda that decided not to restrain the lady, but rather fling her towards a bollard, or the protestors who flung a kids water balloon toy and splashed the neck of a TD, and then formed a line/blockade in protest (Which as previously mentioned, is a legit form of protest)?

BTW. You obviously don't understand peoples anger.

mojesius

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Alan Kelly looks very uncomfortable delivering his speech.

I feel a bit sorry for him. Doesn't seem like a bad fella really. Hogan left him with a complete ****storm.

Haven't seen the Dail that full all year

VinLieger

Allyall wrote: »

Who were the animals? The Garda that decided not to restrain the lady, but rather fling her towards a bollard, or the protestors who flung a kids water balloon toy and splashed the neck of a TD, and then formed a line/blockade in protest (Which as previously mentioned, is a legit form of protest)?

BTW. You obviously don't understand peoples anger.

And you dont understand how easy going to gardai are compared to police forces in other countries when elected officials it is their job to protect are intimidated and attacked in this manner

Larbre34

Ministers speech says bills are being withheld and will issue on April 1st.

Wish I was kidding.

Election now.

howiya

Dean0088 wrote: »

I guess this is some of that rich, informed, open debate I've been hearing about.

Noonan was a teacher. For a few years during the 1960s. I suppose every politician should study politics and economics and enter the Dáil right after college?

Political allegiances aside, I've always thought he comes across as competent and experienced (he's been working in politics since the 1970s I think) with a strong character. Perhaps he's not a great orator but I don't tend to vote for the loudmouth in any aspect of my life.

Enda, another school teacher and not even for long. Barely out of college. Been in the Dail since Daddy died.

The whip system lends itself to a scenario where people don't need to have any subject knowledge to be a TD. Get elected, vote the way we tell you and we'll try our best to get you re-elected in five years

Allyall

VinLieger wrote: »

And you dont understand how easy going to gardai are compared to police forces in other countries when elected officials it is their job to protect are intimidated and attacked in this manner

Don't I?

Why not?

Fukuyama

howiya wrote: »

Ireland is the only country I can think of where if you vote against the whip you are considered to be outside the parliamentary party. I have not seen it to be as draconian in other countries. See UK and US for examples.

I think you're missing the point of the Dail with your trade off scenario. The Dail and its members are meant to hold the Government of the day to account. This is not possible at present. Allowing them to govern unhindered results in bad legislation such as the Irish Water bill

Really highlighting your ignorance here. See what happens to a UK politician who states he has some sympathies with UKIP. As for the US - are you joking?

Every country has a whip system (or some form of it) because crowd sourcing government policy is a ridiculous idea.

The Dáil doesn't allow the government to govern un-hindered. They often fail to get bills through or can only get bills through once revised to suit as many sides as possible - that's democracy: compromise. This mornings new is a fine example of that.

That Dáil is not there to tell the government how to do it's job, it's to make sure there's a proportional debate and say on policy based on elected officials, not the electorate. The electorate don't know how to run a country.