IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

gandalf

Dean0088 wrote: »

It really isn't. Why not have a referendum on every piece of unpopular legislation?

We'd all pay no tax and get loads of welfare, that's why. People are motivated to look after themselves first, everyone else second. That's why we have a state, not a commune - to act against this human trait.

If everyone got an equal vote, middle class in this country would simply stop paying their nations bills and the country would collapse. They're the hardest hit over the past few years. It's the whip system which keeps the country moving through bad time and good.

We don't need a referendum on water charges, any reasonable person will not disagree with proportional usage charges once the other tax areas where water is funded from are amended downward accordingly.

We do need a referendum to secure the ownership of our water and ensure it cannot be taken from public ownership. Legislation is not enough.

howiya

Dean0088 wrote: »

So FG mess up and will likely not be in the next government. Isn't that democracy?

Do you really want every single bill to be voted upon by the wishes of the average voter who knows nothing about the bill? It's fine for cherry picked issues (which is why we have referendums), but the idea of a non-whip system would be a dáil that does less than they already do.

I'd settle for every single bill to be voted upon by the wishes of the individual TD who is casting their vote. If the bill is good for the country it is more than likely that it will get the necessary 80 odd votes

kingtiger

frippy wrote: »

I think the new charges and measures announced seem pretty reasonable.

Will they be enough to calm things down?

not a hope, its just another 180 quid gone along with my House tax and USC

KERSPLAT!

Red Pepper wrote: »

Are ye watching a Dail debate and if so, please send link.

It literally just finished broadcasting on RTE player, I'm not sure of you'll find it live elsewhere though

BoJack Horseman

dav3 wrote: »

Everyone in favour of metered water will now have to join the protest movement

Do I have a choice, or is this what's to come from our newly emboldened communist parties?

dav3

Looks like no debate happening now, FG and Labour have headed to the Dail bar. Minister for environment gone AWOL.

VinLieger

howiya wrote: »

I'd settle for every single bill to be voted upon by the wishes of the individual TD who is casting their vote. If the bill is good for the country it is more than likely that it will get the necessary 80 odd votes

The problem is TD's don't vote on whether things are good for the country they vote on whether it is good for their constituency due to the ridiculous parochial nature of irish politics.

darkpagandeath

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_the_United_States



http://www.celebritynetworth.com/articles/entertainment-articles/how-much-money-does-the-president-make/



http://www.thejournal.ie/taoiseach-ministers-public-servants-pay-cuts-976714-Jul2013/

err does he still not get the normal td salaries and loads of perks ? And to be fair running a country that has 4.5 million compared to the USA is madness. I'm pretty sure Obama and alike do a lot more work in the background talking to various departments and alike.

Daith

Eliezer Modern Lobster wrote: »

Seemed clear enough that it is retrospective, as he said applications would begin next September.

Basically for people who live in rental accommodation and who move in the year the chances of them getting the " grant" is pot luck.

It would have been better if individuals registered and the grant was divided between the tenants.

Highflyer13

A few of the Govt ministers have left the chamber including Alan Kelly and Taoiseach mid-debate. That should not be allowed!!!!:mad:
Your elected by the people so answer the fcuking questions.

Gringo180

Dean0088 wrote: »

It really isn't. Why not have a referendum on every piece of unpopular legislation?

We'd all pay no tax and get loads of welfare, that's why. People are motivated to look after themselves first, everyone else second. That's why we have a state, not a commune - to act against this human trait.

If everyone got an equal vote on every issue, the middle class in this country would simply stop paying the nation's bills and the country would collapse. They're the hardest hit over the past few years and yet they pay the most tax. It's the whip system which keeps the country moving through bad time and good.

As I have already stated, can you please provide me with proof of any protests against unpopular legislation that has attracted over 100,000 thousand people?

Nidgeweasel

"Can't pay, won't pay."

-"Oh ok then I'll pay."

Next.

Allyall

KERSPLAT! wrote: »

It literally just finished broadcasting on RTE player, I'm not sure of you'll find it live elsewhere though

http://www.oireachtas.ie/viewdoc.asp?fn=/documents/livewebcast/Web-Live.htm

Nidgeweasel

Gringo180 wrote: »

As I have already stated, can you please provide me with proof of any protests against unpopular legislation that has attracted over 100,000 thousand people?

I remember one time when I lived in Germany just outside Nuremburg there was a massive gathering once. I always assumed it was a protest. Think it was over dues or something. Loads of people turned up. They wore the same outfit though so everyone knew they were together.

Don't know what happened after it.

howiya

VinLieger wrote: »

The problem is TD's don't vote on whether things are good for the country they vote on whether it is good for their constituency due to the ridiculous parochial nature of irish politics.

Thats incorrect. Currently they vote along the lines of the whip with no regard to their constituency

darkpagandeath

did yer man think his point will be anymore valid by shouting louder ? seems to get louder throughout the speech. Almost like if I shout loud enough I cant hear you .

Have the board of IW been fired? Missed the bit before they were starting the process of looking for a new board tomorrow.

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

As I have already stated, can you please provide me with proof of any protests against unpopular legislation that has attracted over 100,000 thousand people?

So, if 100k walk through Dublin carrying placards against a tax, the gov should have a referendum on it?

Cool

In a month we would secure referendums on the abolishment of VAT, Income tax, excise duty & motor tax!

Sign me up!

darkpagandeath

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So, if 100k walk through Dublin carrying placards against a tax, the gov should have a referendum on it?

Cool

In a month we would secure referendums on the abolishment of VAT, Income tax, excise duty & motor tax!

Sign me up!

People should take off their tinfoil hats and stop making up stuff that will never happen.

BoJack Horseman

darkpagandeath wrote: »

People should take off their tinfoil hats and stop making up stuff that will never happen.

Didn't say it will buddy.

That's what the kid is calling for though.

Sweet pure democracy & referendums galore

Generic Dreadhead

€3 per week? That's fair.

darkpagandeath

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Didn't say it will buddy.

That's what the kid is calling for though.

Sweet pure democracy & referendums galore

You mean like treaties that did not get through from the EU were voted on till they passed ?

howiya

The Minister is about to do a press conference when he should be in the Dail for the debate. Can't make this **** up

BoJack Horseman

darkpagandeath wrote: »

You mean like treaties that did not get through from the EU were voted on till they passed ?

Yep just like that.

Don't like a tax..... 100,000 marchers & its gone, just like that...

Utopia.

suicide_circus

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Have the board of IW been fired? Missed the bit before they were starting the process of looking for a new board tomorrow.

Wonder what kind of gold-plater severance packages thry have lined up

Valetta

howiya wrote: »

The Minister is about to do a press conference when he should be in the Dail for the debate. Can't make this **** up

What's the difference?

Highflyer13

suicide_circus wrote: »

Wonder what kind of gold-plater severance packages thry have lined up

The board will be fired but the bould Hubert will still have his cushy management job.

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

So, if 100k walk through Dublin carrying placards against a tax, the gov should have a referendum on it?

Lets not be silly now. How many times have taxes been raised, pension levies been introduced, USC charges etc. I cant recall any protests that attracted a fraction of the numbers we see now. Do you not realise that this water charge is the straw that has broke the camels back, that the average working class person has had enough. I have been on the marches, these are normal people that have never protested in there lives, including myself. I simply cannot afford to pay it, after I pay all my bills I have very little left over to live on.

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Didn't say it will buddy.

That's what the kid is calling for though.

Sweet pure democracy & referendums galore

Why are you putting words into my mouth. I said the water issue deserves a referendum as it is that important.

Volvic12

Gringo180 wrote: »

Lets not be silly now. How many times have taxes been raised, pension levies been introduced, USC charges etc. I cant recall any protests that attracted a fraction of the numbers we see now. Do you not realise that this water charge is the straw that has broke the camels back, that the average working class person has had enough. I have been on the marches, these are normal people that have never protested in there lives, including myself. I simply cannot afford to pay it, after I pay all my bills I have very little left over to live on.

Agree with alot of the above. I don't necessarily think it's solely the Water Charge people are upset with. Just think that the water charge is the straw that has broke the camels back.