IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

Lets not be silly now. How many times have taxes been raised, pension levies been introduced, USC charges etc. I cant recall any protests that attracted a fraction of the numbers we see now.

Its a curious set of priorities the Irish have.

USC costing 10+ times than IW... Not a whimper
€160 RTE tax.....not a whimper.
€160 tax for water, sewage services..... Referendum now!

The stupid government missed a trick.
They could have cancelled the forthcoming income tax decreases & no one would have said a word.

LostinKildare

Dean0088 wrote: »

So FG mess up and will likely not be in the next government. Isn't that democracy?

Do you really want every single bill to be voted upon by the wishes of the average voter who knows nothing about the bill? It's fine for cherry picked issues (which is why we have referendums), but the idea of a non-whip system would be a dáil that does less than they already do.

You seem to be missing the point, or perhaps you are evading the point.

You claimed that the current system is fine because

"The Dáil doesn't allow the government to govern un-hindered. They often fail to get bills through or can only get bills through once revised to suit as many sides as possible - that's democracy: compromise. . . . That Dáil is not there to tell the government how to do it's job, it's to make sure there's a proportional debate and say on policy based on elected officials."

When it is pointed out to you that the present system did not work that way in the case under discussion --- that democratic debate and compromise was quashed --- you blithely say that that's okay because FG will be voted out.

That may be, but that doesn't fix the problem with the system that allows this scenario to continue, regardless of whatever party is in power.

Your main concern seems to be that "things get done" at any cost --- well, guillotining legislation through the Dail without permitting debate and compromise certainly "got it done": It steamrolled in disastrous legislation, without having to consider input from TDs who may sincerely aim to represent the views of the citizenry, who by your account are too stupid to pay attention to anyway.

So efficient!

Daith

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

€160 RTE tax.....not a whimper.

Will see when they announce the broadcast charge/tax.

bjork

Dean0088 wrote: »

It's not a lie. It's a policy to neutralize anyone aggressive who gets close to POTUS. Watched a few docs on it and it's pretty well known.

Here's a video of Obama doing a walkabout. At 1:45 a person who is happy, smiling and jogging slowly up to the president to shake his hand (clearly not a threat).

Now watch all the secret service guys - jackets open, hands all go up to their midsection to draw their weapon in a split second. All have their eyes locked on the dude. And this is on a supervised walkabout towards a friendly civilian who just approached in an unusual but friendly way.

The presidents security detail in the US is insane. They scout out locations months before he visits. Known threats and local loonies get "sat with" - a process where two secret service agents will show up to your house and watch TV with you while the president is in town (not kidding). Snipers all around him at all times. And a huge undercover and visible armed guards along with whatever other secrets they don't reveal.

All of that is not done so you can get a friendly hug when you charge a him shouting angry obscenities.

The reason why it never happens is because he lives in a sterile bubble 99% of the time. We experienced it here a few years ago when he visited FFS. It was like an invasion of special forces, secret service agents and cops.

on the other hand a guy can stroll in to the white house passed several ss (overpowered at least 1)armed with a knife and is tackled with less force than rambocop used

link given by another poster earlier in thread

Leroy42

Daith wrote: »

Will see when they announce the broadcast charge/tax.

I'd be amazed if this isn't parked until after the next election

Fuzzy Clam

Daith wrote: »

Will see when they announce the broadcast charge/tax.

Majority of households are already paying this as a licence fee so it wont make any difference.

Daith

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Majority of households are already paying this as a licence fee so it wont make any difference.

It'll be delayed if anything else.

BoJack Horseman

Daith wrote: »

Will see when they announce the broadcast charge/tax.

It was announced last year.... as I said.... No protests.

Deferred from January, till the Autumn I believe
Public consultation done & legislation drafted.

No one seemed to care

VinLieger

Fuzzy Clam wrote: »

Majority of households are already paying this as a licence fee so it wont make any difference.

The difference is the tv license is paying for a service the broadcast charge is a tax on having access to the internet

Daith

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It was announced last year.... as I said.... No protests.

And water charges were part of FG mandate back in 2011....

Leroy42

So what if the overall feeling on the changes annonched.

I was struck by the total loack of any mention of IW itself. no mention of a revisved business plan, no mention of reviewing the mistakes, no mention of holding anybody to account for what the government accepts was a mistake

VinLieger

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It was announced last year.... as I said.... No protests.

It's hilarious how people have a problem paying for water but aren't bothered about paying for rte

Daith

VinLieger wrote: »

The difference is the tv license is paying for a service the broadcast charge is a tax on having access to the internet

We already pay tax on our access to the internet :eek:

Phoebas

Leroy42 wrote: »

I'd be amazed if this isn't parked until after the next election

I think its already been parked. They could replace the €160 TV licence charge with a €150 broadcasting charge right now and people would still be giving out.

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Its a curious set of priorities the Irish have.

USC costing 10+ times than IW... Not a whimper
€160 RTE tax.....not a whimper.
€160 tax for water, sewage services..... Referendum now!

The stupid government missed a trick.
They could have cancelled the forthcoming income tax decreases & no one would have said a word.

Do you really think the water charge will be €160 for long? If that was the case Irish Water would be running up huge deficits, which would beg the question why set it up in the first place.

You see, what the government are trying to do now is fool the people into signing up now with these lowered charges and once it is in you will see prices rocket up and maybe the company even getting privatised.

Leroy42

Daith wrote: »

And water charges were part of FG mandate back in 2011....

There were no protests about IW until the registration packs started to arrive and the billing date passed. Then people took notice.

You can bet the same will happen withthe broadcast charge

Banjo String

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

It was announced last year.... as I said.... No protests.

Deferred from January, till the Autumn I believe
Public consultation done & legislation drafted.

No one seemed to care

There wasn't any problems when water charges were announced either.

It's when they started to go live that the poo hit the fan.

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

You see, what the government are trying to do now is fool the people into signing up now with these lowered charges and once it is in you will see prices rocket up and maybe the company even getting privatised.

I'm not worried.
Just get 100,000 people to march against VAT.
The referendum abolishing it will result in us all saving thousands!

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

There were no protests about IW until the registration packs started to arrive and the billing date passed. Then people took notice.

You can bet the same will happen withthe broadcast charge

But, the broadcasting charge is already there. Called TV Licence. The only ones that need worry are those that don't already pay.

Banjo String

VinLieger wrote: »

It's hilarious how people have a problem paying for water but aren't bothered about paying for rte

Dont fancy paying for RTE?

Get rid of your telly, and watch your entertainment on some other device (and don't watch RTE)

The broadcast tax removes that option.

gandalf

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Its a curious set of priorities the Irish have.

USC costing 10+ times than IW... Not a whimper
€160 RTE tax.....not a whimper.
€160 tax for water, sewage services..... Referendum now!

The stupid government missed a trick.
They could have cancelled the forthcoming income tax decreases & no one would have said a word.

Of course ignore the concern that Water could still be sold off to a private entity in the future.

As I and a lot of the others have clearly stated don't have an issue paying a proportional metered usage charge. My problem with the whole IW setup goes a lot deeper concerning the ownership of the resource, addressing the multilayered taxation that we are already hit with for its supply.

My original issue which centred around Data Protection and PPS numbers has been addressed but looking into the setup of the quango and the future possibilities of ownership change a whole new set of concerns have now been exposed.

Leroy42

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'm not worried.
Just get 100,000 people to march against VAT.
The referendum will save us all thousands!

Silly, strawman arguement. VAT is already in place and used to fund the state.

IW was set up and from all available information seemed to be achieing little other than billing people. no additional works were going to carried out, the same CC's that were doing the works now would still be doing it etc.

The revenue from water charges was effectively being used to fund the set up of IW. We could have acheived what the government set out today and saved the country €500m odd in the process

Thats what people are annoyed about. The government got the whole thing backwards. Fancy offices, gym, nice pay packets, bonus's, job for retired county managers. consultancy fees.

What about fixing the infrastructure?

Grandpa Hassan

Leroy42 wrote: »

What about fixing the infrastructure?

There's not going to be enough money for that now.

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

I'm not worried.

Evidently many people are.

BoJack Horseman

Gringo180 wrote: »

Evidently many people are.

Yeah.... But, unpopular tax = referendum on its abolition.

We can't lose!

Daith

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There's not going to be enough money for that now.

There's really not is there?

Gringo180

BoJack Horseman wrote: »

Yeah.... But, unpopular tax = referendum on its abolition.

We can't lose!

Sure didn't the government call 2 referendums for the same treaty a few years back, so if they can do it why cant we:D

Leroy42

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

There's not going to be enough money for that now.

€1.2b was spent last year, why not 1.2 again this year.

Are you saying that we cannot fix any of the infrastructure. That the €500m wasted on IW would have made no difference at all?

BBJBIG

Volvic12 wrote: »

Agree with alot of the above. I don't necessarily think it's solely the Water Charge people are upset with. Just think that the water charge is the straw that has broke the camels back.

Bankers, Builders, Crooked Politicians (now on big pensions), Banks, Bond Holders, EU, ECB, IMF - !!! 65 Billion Shamrocks !!!! - dodgy French Letters from Trichet - there's your problem right there.

The game is UP ... ... ...

Time to REVOLT !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!!

:mad:

KERSPLAT!

BBJBIG wrote: »

Bankers, Builders, Crooked Politicians (now on big pensions), Banks, Bond Holders, EU, ECB, IMF - !!! 65 Billion Shamrocks !!!! - dodgy French Letters from Trichet - there's your problem right there.

The game is UP ... ... ...

Time to REVOLT !!! !!! !!! !!! !!! !!!

:mad:

Does it mean more when you add lots exclamation marks?