IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Peist2007

DamagedTrax wrote: »

its a little bit of spin because doesnt everyone want to be thought of as reasonable? well reasonable people dont question their government, so if you want to be reasonable...

Bernays would be proud.

I would imagine "reasonable" is used as, if you look up the objective definition in law, anything objective is judged on the grounds of the "reasonable right-thinking member of society" ie it is an average for a law abiding citizen

denhaagenite

Royal Tara wrote: »

Both my parents died this year and the berievement grant of 800e is gone so I am down E1600 in the first half of this year. Very few said a word about this.

I'm very sorry for the loss of your parents but I can't support the existence of a "bereavement" grant. You didn't lose anything except your loved ones, which in itself is the worst kind of loss there is.

I did support the water charge but now I'm conflicted with yesterdays announcement. If people are no longer required to pay for what they're using then I don't see how this is an improvement. The sense of entitlement of some people really beggars belief. People in the UK would describe healthcare being free on the NHS but this isn't the case. It's subsidised by the taxpayers. Currently those who are earning more pay more. That's how tax works. In the case of water, it is a finite resource that needs to be conserved and I don't see how one couple, who decide to have four children and allow their adult children to live at home should be subsidised by a couple who are childless and, for arguments sake, the same age as their adult children.

In the case of those still protesting and screaming "won't pay under any circumstances" and talking about the government climb down and the cowards in the Dáil, give yourselves a pat on the back. The lunatics have well and truly taken over the asylum. Oh, please stop taking your children and grannies to protests with you aswell, lest they be "manhandled" by the big bould Gardaí.

Caliden

JRant wrote: »

Why stop there, why not UPC, Sky, Vodafone?
It's a crazy idea.

Don't forget the tv licence and motor tax. I'm sure there are a huge amount of vehicles not declared off the road that are out of tax for months even years!

oppenheimer1

gladrags wrote: »

Fg Labour achievements so far
..

Cronyism,corruption.

The abandoning of essental services.

Closing emergency services.

Sending the health system spiralling into chaos,via John O'Reilly.

Retracting funding from volunteer bodies who support special needs,rape and child
abuse,Autism and mental health in general.

Robbing OAP's medical cards.

Lying about there 5 point plan.

Using sexual abuse as a means to an end.

Abandoning the homeless.

Failing to jail the very unreasonable bankers.

Theres more.

The only fair criticism I see there is the allegation of cronyism. The other decisions are all choices forced by an extremely tight budget situation.

The government would dearly love to not cut services since it loses votes. The parties of government are driven solely by populism and not ideology

oppenheimer1

JRant wrote: »

Fair play to you but you've dropped a lot of money for no gain i'm afraid.

Meters on domestic homes are a stupid idea and completely uneconomical.

What was needed was metering on the main network. Similar to how ESB and Bord Gas do it.

Imagine a situation whereby the ESB only monitored at the generator and then at a domestic fuseboard with nothing inbetween. That's the level of insanity we're being asked to buy into.

Your efforts, while comendable, are completely useless when the sheer scale of the leaks is taken into account.

There is bulk metering on the water network. It is certainly a requirement that all developers install a bulk Meter at the entrance to every housing estate and apartment block

Stargate

BoatMad wrote: »

I see, they should not install meters where a protest is, you mean you can stop something lawful. Meters have nothing to do with the current problem, meters are actually a great idea




I presume, if you don't want the rebate you needn't apply, furthermore if you are the " can't pay wont pay......" brigade , none of this concerns you at all.

You assume many things.

Completely missed the point i was making.
I can only "assume" from your posts your a Government yes man .
Yes Mr Enda , no Mr enda . Please carry on . It gets funnier by the day :rolleyes:

JRant

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

There is bulk metering on the water network. It is certainly a requirement that all developers install a bulk Meter at the entrance to every housing estate and apartment block

Of course but that doesn't cover older estates, which would account for the majority.

_Kaiser_

So Enda considers it case closed ...

The Taoiseach said the issues causing difficulties, anxieties and concerns for people over water charges and Irish Water have been fully addressed.

Enda Kenny says the Government has listened to the voice of the people and acted on what it has heard.

"For Irish Water, I think we've answered all of these anxieties," he said.
He said he hopes people will reflect on the fact that the Government admitted it made mistakes but has been big enough to rectify those mistakes.

And Alan is blaming Phil (though I suppose it makes a change from FF!) ...

Minister Kelly said mistakes were made by the now EU Commissioner Phil Hogan under whose watch Irish Water was established.

"I suppose I feel he could have done better," Kelly said. "I think this issue was underestimated from a scale point of view [and] from a timeline point of view.

"But it was unique territory, I have to acknowledge that. It was the first time ever that something like this was done at this scale - but mistakes were made."

But back in the real world, nothing has been actually done to address the real problems - the corruption and incompetence, cronyism and blatant arrogance of this government who think the public are their own personal ATMs.

Caliden

Stargate wrote: »

You assume many things.

Completely missed the point i was making.
I can only "assume" from your posts your a Government yes man .
Yes Mr Enda , no Mr enda . Please carry on . It gets funnier by the day :rolleyes:

Well to be fair, he has a point. Meters ARE a great idea.

The BAD idea is introducing charges when the system is in a tatters where 42% of water used is from leaks.


Install the meters, fix the leaks and introduce a higher free quota for people who don't require it for medical conditions. Push back the date of first bills until 2016 or even 2017 if you need to. Seriously, what is the rush??


The free quota currently is a joke.

These should be the standard quotas:
http://www.ccwater.org.uk/savewaterandmoney/averagewateruse/

Those would be good for starters. Also, get rid of this 'first fix free' rubbish.
It should be 'free fix for up to 6 months after charging begins'.


Have a referendum so that IW can't be privitised, do the above and there would be very few people who would be against it.


The reason few would be against it? Unless you use an obscene amount of water you won't be charged so it's a fair system, none of this flat fee crap which only encourages water wastage.

AboutaWeekAgo

If Enda really thinks it's case closed and everything has been put to bed he's going to have a bit of a shock on December 10th

CelticRambler

JRant wrote: »

Fair play to you but you've dropped a lot of money for no gain i'm afraid.

Meters on domestic homes are a stupid idea and completely uneconomical.

What was needed was metering on the main network. Similar to how ESB and Bord Gas do it.

Imagine a situation whereby the ESB only monitored at the generator and then at a domestic fuseboard with nothing inbetween. That's the level of insanity we're being asked to buy into.

Your efforts, while comendable, are completely useless when the sheer scale of the leaks is taken into account.

Ah but you see living in France I'm not an Irish tax-payer and I do have metered water, charged on every single litre with no allowances whatsoever. Domestic meters are economical because they force the service provider and end user to concentrate on their own length of pipe.

FWIW (pure coincidence, I wonder?) an article appeared in the French press a few hours ago reporting on ... the desperate state of the pipes in France, and leaks of 15-37% before the water gets to the meter. "Persistent lack of investment in the network" is the reason given. Here you go, if you want to practise your French: http://www.lefigaro.fr/conso/2014/11/20/05007-20141120ARTFIG00109-l-etat-alarmant-des-canalisations-d-eau-en-france.php

Storm 10

If they are going to refund the 100 Euro by cheque and say 2 million were to sign up who is going to pay the cost of posting and cashing these cheques.

Royal Tara

I notice for metering the cost per 1,000 ltrs has gone down but just read that the 30,000 free allowance is now scrapped. Did I miss the posts on that. so we end up worse off for normal usage. Another underhand trick. I would have been in favour of installing meters to find leaks, fix the grid, give usable water to everyone and then start charging, If they had a decent product at a decent rate maybe they would have got people on their side. But now we know that our property tax did not yield anything or our household charges. So its just another tax.

Stargate

AboutaWeekAgo wrote: »

If Enda really thinks it's case closed and everything has been put to bed he's going to have a bit of a shock on December 10th

We in Cork are getting ready to welcome him to tonight.
A good rebel county welcome i hope .

ROCKMAN

Stargate wrote: »

We in Cork are getting ready to welcome him to tonight.
A good rebel county welcome i hope .

Listen make sure he has a valid passport before ye allow him enter the Republic of Cork.

Caliden

Storm 10 wrote: »

If they are going to refund the 100 Euro by cheque and say 2 million were to sign up who is going to pay the cost of posting and cashing these cheques.

"Please provide your PPS number so the rebate can be applied directly via tax credits/social welfare"

gladrags

Stargate wrote: »

We in Cork are getting ready to welcome him to tonight.
A good rebel county welcome i hope .

What is the occasion?

What time?

Thanks

DamagedTrax

DamagedTrax wrote: »

have you seen 'century of the self'? its a 4 part docu on him and his likes. scary stuff.

yeah I watched it, the man who turned the term propaganda into promotion!!
as the former was synonymous with Goebles!!

mass manipulation and all that, very good stuff. see how he got women to smoke?? unreal eh...

nxbyveromdwjpg

Stargate wrote: »

You assume many things.

Completely missed the point i was making.
I can only "assume" from your posts your a Government yes man .
Yes Mr Enda , no Mr enda . Please carry on . It gets funnier by the day :rolleyes:

You seem to be exclaim having your point missed a lot. Clearly everyone else's fault.

Sure they all must be non corkonian government yes men, or what was it, oh yea govbots (insert roll eyes here)

Right.

My name is URL

Foxhound38 wrote: »

I then asked which specific incidence of corruption Rojomcdojo was referring to. The Government has displayed incompetence in certain areas, cronyism in others - I've seen scarce evidence of corruption

He did provide a very likely example of corruption and you ignored it.

Colman Sheehy's appointment to the board of directors. Can you or any of the other pro-IW posters explain it, because you'd be the first person that has managed to.

http://www.water.ie/about-us/company/the-board/

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/brother-of-fine-gael-donor-appointed-to-board-of-irish-water-1.1979917

Nobody seems to now who he is, what is qualifications are or why in the blue fcuk he was appointed.

Cronyism is a form of corruption btw. It's no wonder there's so much of it in Ireland though when people view the two things as being separate.

Stargate

Banjo String wrote: »

I am wondering about this on the estates that are protesting (donaghmede) for example? Whats the point in antagonising the people that clearly do not want a meter installed, if said meternow, doesn't need to be installed?

I have asked this many times, and have yet to get an answer that makes sense.

BoatMad wrote: »

I see, they should not install meters where a protest is, you mean you can stop something lawful. Meters have nothing to do with the current problem, meters are actually a great idea

I presume, if you don't want the rebate you needn't apply, furthermore if you are the " can't pay wont pay......" brigade , none of this concerns you at all.

Caliden wrote: »

Install the meters, fix the leaks and introduce a higher free quota for people who don't require it for medical conditions. Push back the date of first bills until 2016 or even 2017 if you need to. Seriously, what is the rush??




Have a referendum so that IW can't be privitised, do the above and there would be very few people who would be against it.

My response was to Banjos post about meters Caliden . Got the usual " can't pay wont pay......brigade " comment .

Yes i agree with you , fix the leaks , and have a referendum.

Caliden

Stargate wrote: »

My response was to Banjos post about meters Caliden . Got the usual " can't pay wont pay......brigade " comment .

Yes i agree with you , fix the leaks , and have a referendum.

My bad missed that bit, apologies.

Stargate

nm wrote: »

You seem to be exclaim having your point missed a lot. Clearly everyone else's fault.

Sure they all must be non corkonian government yes men, or what was it, oh yea govbots (insert roll eyes here)

Right.

nm , your back again , cant wait to jump in can you?
Jerry Buttimer says hallo
Do you know who HE is?

Stargate

gladrags wrote: »

What is the occasion?

What time?

Thanks

Fears about mass anti-water charge protests led the Rochestown Park Hotel to cancel a Fine Gael meeting due to be attended by Taoiseach Enda Kenny tomorrow night.
The hotel told the party yesterday that the booking for the meeting would have to be cancelled.

http://www.eveningecho.ie/2014/11/19/security-fears-see-cork-hotel-cancel-fine-gael-meeting/

Tonight in Ballincollig , just outside the City.
Orial House is the venue.

Tomorrow at 09:30
Blackpool Shopping Complex

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=378983432261279&id=351385125021110

oppenheimer1

Caliden wrote: »

Well to be fair, he has a point. Meters ARE a great idea.

The BAD idea is introducing charges when the system is in a tatters where 42% of water used is from leaks.


Install the meters, fix the leaks and introduce a higher free quota for people who don't require it for medical conditions. Push back the date of first bills until 2016 or even 2017 if you need to. Seriously, what is the rush??


The free quota currently is a joke.

These should be the standard quotas:
http://www.ccwater.org.uk/savewaterandmoney/averagewateruse/

Those would be good for starters. Also, get rid of this 'first fix free' rubbish.
It should be 'free fix for up to 6 months after charging begins'.


Have a referendum so that IW can't be privitised, do the above and there would be very few people who would be against it.


The reason few would be against it? Unless you use an obscene amount of water you won't be charged so it's a fair system, none of this flat fee crap which only encourages water wastage.

There would be still lots of people against it since so many don't believe in a direct consumption charge for water.

Royal Tara

Lol we the taxpayer are of course.. like we paid for the booklets to every home that now have outdated information. I am also told by a plumbing company that by 2019 our meters will be obsolete, seized up or in need of overhauling. Im sure that will be sorted out of the surplus money that Irish water will have brought in. I note we sign up by February but the government wont know till April/May if the EU accept the package and there is no plan B if its rejected.

Chinasea

How come people are not up in arms and obsessing about how much consultants, barristers, judges, doctors, senior civil servants, CEO's of charities and so on are being paid and robbing us blind.

Even the Troika were thoroughly shocked to discover how blo*dy much these professionals and their professional CARTELS are creaming!

Whats the story? Why is nobody hurtling themselves in front of cars against these guys?

There is a major imbalance in this regard towards the IW fatcats.

Vote Sinn Fein by all means, but where oh WHERE will they find the €6 billion (for water alone) needed to bring us into the 21st century, unless of course Bill Gates is a Sinn Fein sympathizer.

AboutaWeekAgo

Chinasea wrote: »

How come people are not up in arms and obsessing about how much consultants, barristers, judges, doctors, senior civil servants, CEO's of charities and so on are being paid and robbing us blind.

Even the Troika were thoroughly shocked to discover how blo*dy much these professionals and their professional CARTELS are creaming!

Whats the story? Why is nobody hurtling themselves in front of cars against these guys?

There is a major imbalance in this regard towards the IW fatcats.

Vote Sinn Fein by all means, but where oh WHERE will they find the €6 billion (for water alone) needed to bring us into the 21st century, unless of course Bill Gates is a Sinn Fein sympathizer.

You're the one who brought up Sinn Fein to be fair. I can't recall anybody bringing them up in this thread.

Chinasea

Chinasea wrote: »

How come people are not up in arms and obsessing about how much consultants, barristers, judges, doctors, senior civil servants, CEO's of charities and so on are being paid and robbing us blind.

Even the Troika were thoroughly shocked to discover how blo*dy much these professionals and their professional CARTELS are creaming!

I would hope that this is the beginning of people waking up to the leeches mentioned above who are robbing the country blind. Who use cartels and political influence to feather their nests to the tune of hundreds of thousands. I think this is a turning point in information access for the average citizen - 15 years ago there might have been a few articles outlining the waste and corruption involved in the setting up of IW, buried deep within the national papers. Now we have google, Facebook, Twitter etc and people can educate themselves on the facts, figures and individuals involved, without having to rely on spin from vested interests.

My name is URL

http://www.thejournal.ie/fine-gael-td-noel-coonan-water-charges-isis-situation-1790877-Nov2014/

Fine Gael TD warns of ‘an ISIS situation’ if violence at water charge protests continues

A FINE GAEL TD has warned that Ireland faces “an ISIS situation” if the more extreme elements of water charge protests are not “nipped in the bud”.

Noel Coonan, a TD for Tipperary North, was speaking during the course of today’s lengthy Dáil debate on the changes to the water charges regime that were announced yesterday.

He was referring to the militant jihadist group known as Islamic State of Iraq and Syria which occupies parts of Iraq and Syria where it has declared its own caliphate – Islamic State.

This is the 'reality' that these guys live in :pac: