IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

ThunbergsAreGo

Dean0088 wrote: »

What if they moved to IW to do a more demanding job? For example, they might have been a mid-level manager in a county council but moved into a top position in IW. Surely (and legally) they should get a pay increase?

Again, wasnt arguing with that.

But if I worked in a local authority, I wouldnt be looking to offer up my best and brightest to work there,

Woodville56

Fuhrer wrote: »

32k is a basic salary?

That's what I understand, for a graduate engineer - how much do you think they should be paid ?
Is your inference that anyone paid €32k pa is " endemically overpaid" . That would go down well on the socialist manifesto when the next election is called!
Ways to win friends and influence people anyone ?

ThunbergsAreGo

I am just confused by what the end game is here

It seems like IW is just being used as the lightening rod to get rid of the current Government?

Is that what the protestors want?

Fuhrer

Were any of these Irish Water jobs advertised publicly?


Id love to see the hiring criteria

tigger123

naughtb4 wrote: »

Again, wasnt arguing with that.

But if I worked in a local authority, I wouldnt be looking to offer up my best and brightest to work there,

Staff aren't moved around like that. It's a separate organization, with its own recruitment processes.

Highflyer13

Dean0088 wrote: »

A reversal of IW. We need water charges in this country where people pay for what they use. Continuing to allow a minority of tax payers to pay for a huge public infrastructure system that's in desperate need of repairs cannot continue into the future. It just can't.

Far left TDs and activists are stoking up this anger and causing PR stunts to get themselves in the limelight. They want power. What'd happen if they actually got it hasn't even been thought of, let alone discussed by the anti-IW crowd.

Something decent and brand new needs to emerge on the centre-right. That would finish FF and FG for good. DDI and the Reform alliance don't seem to be gaining any ground especially the latter with some old faces in it. I think the answer is in the people and hopefully something will emerge for 2021.

ThunbergsAreGo

tigger123 wrote: »

Staff aren't moved around like that. It's a separate organization, with its own recruitment processes.

Fair enough, I dont really know enough about the hiring policies associated with Semi State bodies and transfers within them

My point was the total wage bill for Irish Water isnt a new cost as alot of it was being paid already to staff who have transfered from other areas/bodies

ThinkAboutIt

Thinking about it, FF, mainly the late Brian Lenihan, have been incredibly clever in how they dealt with the banking crisis. They made all the easy cuts, knowing they had no chance of staying in power. And how FG have to make the bad cuts and taxes and are being seen as the useless Government. The reduction to income tax this budget has basically gone over everyones heads, they should have put that higher and tried to do away with the water charges.

In short, FG can't win. They've been dealt a bad hand from the start. There is no perspective here, and it would be a great shame if the left got into power on the back of this. The hugely ironic thing is FF will probably take up some form of Government.

Fuhrer

Woodville56 wrote: »

That's what I understand, for a graduate engineer - how much do you think they should be paid ?
Is your inference that anyone paid €32k pa is " endemically overpaid" . That would go down well on the socialist manifesto when the next election is called!
Ways to win friends and influence people anyone ?

No, my inference; which is pretty clear to understand without running your deluded and insane agenda over it, is that 32k is not a basic salary.

The median graduate salary last time I checked was around 25k. Obviously better graduates can earn more but they work in cutting edge companies and graduate top of their class. You think anyone going to work for Irish Water is high in demand in the private sector?

Marion Morrison

Dean0088 wrote: »

That article was the first bit of logical, rational commentary I've read on the water issue so far.

And I'll fully admit that I can be over zealous in defending my stance on the issue.

There's obvious anger towards FG/Lab in this country but the anti-water crowd are bolstering their argument with nonsense in order to secure power for themselves. I've yet to hear Paul Murphy sting together a single sentence in the Dáil that contains actual workable policy or plans. He adopts an opposite opinion to the government to ride this wave of (quite justified) anger.

I'm not afraid or intimidated by even the most violent of protesters. Anyone looking into Ireland from the outside would see these incidents as the small PR stunts that they are. They're illegal and unjustifiable (especially last Saturday), but they're small.

What I AM afraid of is the hard-left in Ireland actually securing power by securing the angry vote (which they're doing).

For all the anti-Irish water talk we've had on Boards and elsewhere there's very little talk on what would happen after a GE where these guys get into power. They can abolish Irish water - no skin off my nose and one less bill. It's what they'd have to impose on the country to bring about their socialist dreams that's terrifying.

There isn't any real differences between the Irish political parties and politicians, that's one of the great myths of Ireland, perpetuted by the politicans themselves. The sum goal of Irish politicians is to get into government for just a few years, look after your particular personal cronies and hangers on, qualify for the golden ministers pension for life, and then get out. E.g. Sinn Fein in NI acted no differently to FF/FG/LAB/Greens/PD's/'Independents' when they got into power, they are all the same. Look after your personal cronies, qualify for the golden pension, and rob as many people as possible to pay for it. Educated and honest people do not go into politics in Ireland for a reason.
This pattern has been going on since the 'foundation' of the 'state'.

Tinkersbell

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

If you think Enda's sums are bad. Wait until you see Sinn Feins magical money tree sums.

Maybe you should thinkaboutit a bit more before you post......
Use your own brain.

tigger123

naughtb4 wrote: »

Fair enough, I dont really know enough about the hiring policies associated with Semi State bodies and transfers within them

But no problem contributing to rumours online though.

Fukuyama

naughtb4 wrote: »

Again, wasnt arguing with that.

But if I worked in a local authority, I wouldnt be looking to offer up my best and brightest to work there,

I don't think that's how appointments are made in the public or private sector.

Generally, people want to move upwards in their careers so keep an eye out for jobs or are headhunted by a recruitment agency due to their talents/skill set.

So a middle manager might apply/be asked to join IW in a tougher role and negotiate a salary increase.

The whole issue of pay in IW is contested by people with little knowledge of the labour market and are easily outraged by salaries without actually knowing the people being paid. €70k a year is fair pay for a consultant, engineer or manager with experience or skills that will pay for themselves.

If PAC or anyone else finds that appointments have been made due to cronyism then I'll call for that person to be fired right away (and even sued by the state). But at the end of the day this is a massive utility company bigger than most publicly listed companies in the state. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Marion Morrison

Dean0088 wrote: »

You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Except we're paying in gold coins by the ton, and, as usual, we get fat corrupt useless greedy monkeys.

Red Pepper

Dean0088 wrote: »

If PAC or anyone else finds that appointments have been made due to cronyism then I'll call for that person to be fired right away (and even sued by the state). But at the end of the day this is a massive utility company bigger than most publicly listed companies in the state.

The government admit it is overstaffed by 2000 people!!!

Water utility companies are not making rockets. The infrastructure and systems were already in place and billing/asset management software is straightforward. The only difficult task were the water meters. You dont need a huge highly paid crack management team to run a utility.

naughtb4

naughtb4 wrote: »

I am just confused by what the end game is here

It seems like IW is just being used as the lightening rod to get rid of the current Government?

Is that what the protestors want?

Yes. FG/Lab were handed a poisoned chalice. FF knew they were finished, so sold us down the river. IMO, FG/Lab haven't done too bad a job. I've always looked on the water protests as early electioneering by the left.

Fuhrer

Dean0088 wrote: »

If PAC or anyone else finds that appointments have been made due to cronyism then I'll call for that person to be fired right away (and even sued by the state). But at the end of the day this is a massive utility company bigger than most publicly listed companies in the state. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

Coleman Sheehy

Caliden

Dean0088 wrote: »

The whole issue of pay in IW is contested by people with little knowledge of the labour market and are easily outraged by salaries without actually knowing the people being paid. €70k a year is fair pay for a consultant, engineer or manager with experience or skills that will pay for themselves.

If PAC or anyone else finds that appointments have been made due to cronyism then I'll call for that person to be fired right away (and even sued by the state). But at the end of the day this is a massive utility company bigger than most publicly listed companies in the state. You pay peanuts you get monkeys.

How many managers does IW need?

127 out of 310 people employed by Irish water get over 70k.

That's a bit of a joke to be honest.

omega man

omega man wrote: »

Whatever about their ability to implement political reform I would have serious reservations on their ability to maintain and continue our economic growth. I don't believe it's as simple as give SF a chance and see what happens.

What is it about their economic policies that causes you to have "serious reservations"?

I don't think they are that radically different to the status quo, albeit with a more progressive bent.

Cantona's Collars

Caliden wrote: »

How many managers does IW need?

127 out of 310 people employed by Irish water get over 70k.

That's a bit of a joke to be honest.

Sums up IW,overpaid jobs for the boys.How many were publicly advertised?

Tony EH

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes. FG/Lab were handed a poisoned chalice. FF knew they were finished, so sold us down the river. IMO, FG/Lab haven't done too bad a job. I've always looked on the water protests as early electioneering by the left.

Well, then, you're not looking hard enough.

Red Pepper

Caliden wrote: »

How many managers does IW need?

127 out of 310 people employed by Irish water get over 70k.

That's a bit of a joke to be honest.

That was in January!!!

Fukuyama

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Something decent and brand new needs to emerge on the centre-right. That would finish FF and FG for good. DDI and the Reform alliance don't seem to be gaining any ground especially the latter with some old faces in it. I think the answer is in the people and hopefully something will emerge for 2021.

Couldn't agree more. Irish politics needs a shake up.

Unfortunately the only "shake ups" we get are leftist revolutionary types who are great at shaking their fists but crap at actually sitting down around a table and explaining their goals/plans/policies.

The electorate in this country are easily taken in by flies by FG, FF, Lab, Socialist Party, SF...the whole damn lot of them.

I find myself left with a choice: Do I vote for FG who tell lies to play the political "game", but actually have some sensible policies and appreciate the role the private sector (even the big "evil" corporations) play in an economy

OR

Do I give in to my emotions and vote for Socialist Party or Sinn Fein who are great at bringing together communities and crowds, but fall short on actually having the brain power to understand what'd happen if they implemented their policies.

A crap choice but I know which one I should take if I actually want a happy future in Ireland.

I like Vradakar and a few others. Enda is the figure head and is obviously demonized the most, but I'll vote for his party at the next GE because I don't think he'll lead the country back to a 2010 situation. Not because I'm an FG supporter or some other tripe - but because it's the best option.

If a center-right party with no cronyism or political games emerged I'd vote for them in a heart beat.

ThinkAboutIt

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

Thinking about it, FF, mainly the late Brian Lenihan, have been incredibly clever in how they dealt with the banking crisis. They made all the easy cuts, knowing they had no chance of staying in power. And how FG have to make the bad cuts and taxes and are being seen as the useless Government. The reduction to income tax this budget has basically gone over everyones heads, they should have put that higher and tried to do away with the water charges.

In short, FG can't win. They've been dealt a bad hand from the start. There is no perspective here, and it would be a great shame if the left got into power on the back of this. The hugely ironic thing is FF will probably take up some form of Government.

You know, they were dealt a good hand in that they had a couple of years of watching FF implement austerity and that's plenty of time to formulate a game plan for when in power.

If they had come out and laid out the reasons for increased taxation I wouldn't mind so much, it's the way they insult our intelligence by pretending to do something good (reduce income taxes) but at the same time snatching that money back and then some, through the household charge/property tax and water charges.

This is not about water. It's about revenue generation for the government to after previous generations of tax revenue were used to rescue the banks.

If they were honest and open and admitted this, then I think people would have a bit more understanding, but they are trying to be too clever by half.

Marion Morrison

This seasons scandal is Irish water, last season it was CRC, before that it was Anglo, it goes on and on and on. Irish water will be forgotten about too, the usesual supsects will surf this one out as well, and we'll lurch onto the next scandal soon enough.

Stargate

Stargate wrote: »

Enda in Cork .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exkZxyCpdF4

Tinkersbell wrote: »

I have never seen anything like this in Ireland in my 46 years on this planet.
The Irish people have finally awoken from their FF induced slumber.

#feelingproudtoday

Absolutely lashing rain here in Cork City !
I mean really terrible heavy rain - its pouring from the heavens.
Everybody soaked to the skin , Great turnout.
Very proud of my home City today - I said last week Sligo for me was a turning point.

People were NOT going to listen to the drivel on RTE etc.
They came out in Sligo and now CORK has spoken.

Ireland IS awake as Clare Daly said it so well.
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=969787613050241&set=vb.257558294273180&type=2&theater

When you see this type of sh1te
https://twitter.com/CathMurphyTD/status/535385187316932608/photo/1
You have to make a stand against it !!
You may be disappointed if you fail, but you are doomed if you don't try .

Go on the rebel county

hatrickpatrick

Marion Morrison wrote: »

This seasons scandal is Irish water, last season it was CRC, before that it was Anglo, it goes on and on and on. Irish water will be forgotten about too, the usesual supsects will surf this one out as well, and we'll lurch onto the next scandal soon enough.

I'm not so sure about that. I'd like to believe we've reached a tipping point and people actually won't let this one go.

Woodville56

Fuhrer wrote: »

No, my inference; which is pretty clear to understand without running your deluded and insane agenda over it, is that 32k is not a basic salary.

The median graduate salary last time I checked was around 25k. Obviously better graduates can earn more but they work in cutting edge companies and graduate top of their class. You think anyone going to work for Irish Water is high in demand in the private sector?

My point is, giving your socialist / pro left leanings, do you feel anyone earning €32k pa is overpaid, if that is a socialist viewpoint , I can't see it attracting mass defections to the left come the next election.

Fukuyama

Caliden wrote: »

How many managers does IW need?

127 out of 310 people employed by Irish water get over 70k.

That's a bit of a joke to be honest.

What would you think is a fair wage for such a job?

40k? Super market line managers earn more.

I really think you don't know anything about the type of positions these people fill and are just citing numbers to be outraged.

€70k a year for a top level manager at a semi-state utility (particularly with conditions like 24/7 on-call etc...) isn't corruption or palm greasing. It's fair wage.

Fuhrer

Woodville56 wrote: »

My point is, giving your socialist / pro left leanings, do you feel anyone earning €32k pa is overpaid, if that is a socialist viewpoint , I can't see it attracting mass defections to the left come the next election.

What Socialist/Pro Left leanings have I demonstrated apart from the ones you've made up in your own deluded head?