IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

ThunbergsAreGo

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Water is the one thing that a state should provide for all it's citizens from the general tax take.
All it's citizens, millionaires or paupers.

I won't be paying a water tax. No chance.

Dont an awful lot of countries have a seperate water tax?

Tinkersbell

naughtb4 wrote: »

Dont an awful lot of countries have a seperate water tax?

We're not other countries.

Do they have a USC?

gladrags

shinzon wrote: »

I knew this story would end up in here, if you read the headline it says and I quote

"Burton associate ‘kicked and beaten’ in Jobstown protest claims Begg"

Not 100% definitively but claimed she was and I find it highly suspicious that with all the hysteria surrounding the water balloon and Joan giving her statement and everything written about jobstown that this is only coming to light now forgive me if im highly sceptical of this mans claims.

However if this did happen then whoever did it should be arrested and thrown in jail simple as.

Original article here

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/burton-associate-kicked-and-beaten-in-jobstown-protest-claims-begg-1.2011881

Anyway as everyone on the pro side bangs on about whenever a videos posted proof is needed before I believe it unsubstantiated rumours at the moment is all this is

Shin

Begg who's salary is on par with Barack Obama,has a vested interest in dissing the protest movement.

Why?

Because Begg did nothing in the face of austerity.

One or two Unions stood up go austerity.

Siptu are a joke,and were paid off by Bertie,hence the PAC inquiry.

ThunbergsAreGo

Tinkersbell wrote: »

We're not other countries.

Do they have a USC?

Thats a seperate question, the idea of a charge per usage is in practice a good idea, its just been implemented awfully

Chucken

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-irish-government-is-not-required-to-implement-water-charges-on-households-1.2009288



...the Government claims it must charge for domestic water because it is required to in the EU water framework directive. This is not true.


Has anyone questioned this in the Dail?

Allyall

Chucken wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-irish-government-is-not-required-to-implement-water-charges-on-households-1.2009288



...the Government claims it must charge for domestic water because it is required to in the EU water framework directive. This is not true.


Has anyone questioned this in the Dail?

Unfortunately it is (Take that whatever way anyone wants.)
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/water/participation/pdf/waternotes/water_note5_economics.pdf

Second paragraph.

AboutaWeekAgo

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

So we're in a better position, and have more money in our pocket, so don't want to pay?

Speak for yourself, my pockets are still looking bare.

Tinkersbell

naughtb4 wrote: »

Thats a seperate question, the idea of a charge per usage is in practice a good idea, its just been implemented awfully

You compared us to 'other countries'.
There is no charge per usage.
There's a flat rate.
Use 1000 or 1,000,000 litres and it's the same price.

gladrags

Latest Poll RTE...

"The poll indicates Fine Gael is down four points to 22%. 

Labour Party is indicated to be unchanged on 8%. 

The poll suggests Fianna Fáil remain at 18%.

Sinn Féin are suggested to be on 22%, an increase of two points, indicating the party's support is level with Fine Gael.

The poll indicates that Independents and smaller parties are the most popular group among the voters surveyed, with support up two points to 30%."

Thoughts?

Chucken

Allyall wrote: »

Unfortunately it is (Take that whatever way anyone wants.)
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/water/participation/pdf/waternotes/water_note5_economics.pdf

Second paragraph.

Article 9 of the water framework directive requires charging for domestic water. There is one exemption. It is known within the European Commission as the “Irish Exemption” because it was won by the Irish and only Ireland qualifies for it. It is found in article 9.4 of the directive.
In 2000, the Irish government brokered this exemption and the inclusion of article 9.4 which formally and legally absolves Ireland and only Ireland from the requirement to charge for domestic water.

Tinkersbell

Chucken wrote: »

Article 9 of the water framework directive requires charging for domestic water. There is one exemption. It is known within the European Commission as the “Irish Exemption” because it was won by the Irish and only Ireland qualifies for it. It is found in article 9.4 of the directive.
In 2000, the Irish government brokered this exemption and the inclusion of article 9.4 which formally and legally absolves Ireland and only Ireland from the requirement to charge for domestic water.

Sure how would Denis get a meter contract if we invoked that article?

sammy37

naughtb4 wrote: »

Thats a seperate question, the idea of a charge per usage is in practice a good idea, its just been implemented awfully

In practice it is a good idea but there is a flat charge here for the next four years at least so those meters are as useful as those e voting machines and if you want to be in line with the rest of europe why dont they scrap the usc ,reduce motor tax, lower gp visits, creche fees and on and on we could go. Just cos europe has one tax it does not mean we should have it.

Highflyer13

gladrags wrote: »

Latest Poll RTE...

"The poll indicates Fine Gael is down four points to 22%. 

Labour Party is indicated to be unchanged on 8%. 

The poll suggests Fianna Fáil remain at 18%.

Sinn Féin are suggested to be on 22%, an increase of two points, indicating the party's support is level with Fine Gael.

The poll indicates that Independents and smaller parties are the most popular group among the voters surveyed, with support up two points to 30%."

Thoughts?

I thought Sinn Fein were on 26% in a Millward Brown poll a couple of weeks ago. Have they lost some ground again?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-finds-sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-most-popular-party-in-state-1.1985132

cajonlardo

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

So we're in a better position, and have more money in our pocket, so don't want to pay?

Less than 2 weeks ago Prime Time did a special on the "New Homeless"
People with jobs, hard working honest and decent people. A worker who is a mother and also a law student, a couple working but whose family had landed up in separate hostels. People sleeping in their cars.

So do us all a favour and live up to your user name before your next post?

Banjo String

ThinkAboutIt wrote: »

Amazing how many seats FG got when they had water meters in their plan. What percentage do you think of protesters voted for them?

Would this plan be the one were they said they wouldn't start charging people until after the meters were all installed

So, in actual fact another lie.

gladrags

Highflyer13 wrote: »

I thought Sinn Fein were on 26% in a Millward Brown poll a couple of weeks ago. Have they lost some ground again?

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-finds-sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-most-popular-party-in-state-1.1985132

This poll is different,it is for the Sunday BP.

The Red c poll and the Millward Poll reflect different criteria.

SF are up 2 points in this poll.

Banjo String

Chucken wrote: »

Article 9 of the water framework directive requires charging for domestic water. There is one exemption. It is known within the European Commission as the “Irish Exemption” because it was won by the Irish and only Ireland qualifies for it. It is found in article 9.4 of the directive.
In 2000, the Irish government brokered this exemption and the inclusion of article 9.4 which formally and legally absolves Ireland and only Ireland from the requirement to charge for domestic water.

And here my learned friends, is a woman who has did her homework.

Tinkersbell

Banjo String wrote: »

And here my learned friends, is a woman who has did her homework.

FG dreamed up their water tax in 2009.
They were never going to invoke that article.
Palms need to be greased when FG are in power...

Ogham

Chucken wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-the-irish-government-is-not-required-to-implement-water-charges-on-households-1.2009288


...the Government claims it must charge for domestic water because it is required to in the EU water framework directive. This is not true.

That Irish Times article is wrong. There is no specific clause for Ireland.
There is a "get out" clause - put in to keep Ireland happy at the time - that says that a member state will not be in breach of the Directive if it decides – in accordance with established practices – not to
apply the provisions relating to cost recovery ‘where this does not compromise the purposes and the achievement of the objectives of this Directive.’ See http://www.philiplee.ie/Libraries/Publications/The_Legal_Case_for_Household_Water_Charges.sflb.ashx

Fianna Fail + The Greens must have known there were potential problems when they included water charges in their program for government in 2009 - See http://www.defence.ie/WebSite.nsf/72804bb4760386f380256c610055a16b/2a49a2267d0f095b80257754004d3e17/$FILE/94315182.pdf/Renewed_Programme_for_Government,_October_2009.pdf

They said at the time they would let the local councils set the rates.

Anita Blow

naughtb4 wrote: »

Dont an awful lot of countries have a seperate water tax?

An awful lot of other countries don't have VRT- why aren't the government harmonising this as well?
We're a sovereign country who can make decisions independent of other countries.

Going Forward

Allyall wrote: »

Unfortunately it is (Take that whatever way anyone wants.)
http://ec.europa.eu/environment/water/participation/pdf/waternotes/water_note5_economics.pdf

Second paragraph.

Further digging reveals that there is written record of the agreement that Ireland has this derogation:
"
Cost Recovery The Regulations (article 11) require local authorities to comply with the provisions of Article 9 of the Directive in relation to the recovery of the costs of water services, having regard to Ireland’s position in relation Article 9.4 of the Directive, as stated in the minutes of the Environment Council which adopted the Directive, and on which basis Ireland supported its adoption i.e. that the provisions of Article 9.4 in relation to “established practices” permits the continued exemption from water charges of the domestic sector in Ireland."

http://www.wfdireland.ie/Documents/Circular%20WQ%20-%203-03.pdf

Anyone able to find the minutes of that meeting?

Chucken

Banjo String wrote: »

And here my learned friends, is a woman who has did her homework.

I'm trying but I'm getting tangled up in the legalities of it


Are we on to something here or not?

Highflyer13

cajonlardo wrote: »

Less than 2 weeks ago Prime Time did a special on the "New Homeless"
People with jobs, hard working honest and decent people. A worker who is a mother and also a law student, a couple working but whose family had landed up in separate hostels. People sleeping in their cars.

So do us all a favour and live up to your user name before your next post?

Yes. The 'working poor' we are called. Its a sad state of fairs tbh and I would argue despite all the positive spin most workers are seeing very little extra cash in their pocket if any. For all the hype about the last budget it was simply a case of give with one hand while take with the other. That has certainly riled people.

Pocoyo

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=624447517663871&set=vb.557569287685028&type=2&theater

Another 2 billion to be wasted on irish water these cnuts are robbing us blind while giving their friends our money.

SaveOurLyric

Tinkersbell wrote: »

Water is the one thing that a state should provide for all it's citizens from the general tax take.
All it's citizens, millionaires or paupers.

I won't be paying a water tax. No chance.

You already are, as so many anti water charge people point out.

SaveOurLyric

Tinkersbell wrote: »

We're not other countries.

Do they have a USC?

Yes. In various forms.

arse..biscuits

Anyone see tomorrow's Sunday World?????

Just when I thought it spin couldn't get any worse.

Pocoyo

arse..biscuits wrote: »

Anyone see tomorrow's Sunday World?????

Just when I thought it spin couldn't get any worse.

http://www.sundayworld.com/top-stories/crime-desk/revealed-the-inla-gun-thug-who-whipped-up-mob-that-held-burtons-car

LOL!!

Will they leave the people of tallaght alone ffs!!

The governments response to a countrywide protest is to constantly attack tallaght!!!

Chucken

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

You already are, as so many anti water charge people point out.

Thanks for clearing that up

Phoebas

Pocoyo wrote: »

Will they leave the people of tallaght alone ffs!!

The governments response to a countrywide protest is to constantly attack tallaght!!!

Its the Sunday World, not Iris Oifigiuil ffs.