IW/Anything Water Related-Warning in OP

Smidge

cajonlardo wrote: »

Less than 2 weeks ago Prime Time did a special on the "New Homeless"
People with jobs, hard working honest and decent people. A worker who is a mother and also a law student, a couple working but whose family had landed up in separate hostels. People sleeping in their cars.

So do us all a favour and live up to your user name before your next post?

In a similar vein and I think relevent here, there was a report on yesterdays 6.1 news(I think).
It was about a man who looked to be in his fifties who was the full time carer for his son. His son had Autism and appeared to be very severly affected(the son was 16 and looked to functioning at a much lower age range).

The man had given up a pensionable job 10 years ago to be a full time carere for his son. It was very obvious that the boy needed immense care and attention, they had to have fairly high perimiter railings installed to stop him from leaveing as he is a complete flight risk.
Lots of detail in the report and it really caught my attention.
The man CLEARLY had his hands full and his work majorly cut out for him.
His carers allowance had been stopped as it was no longer "deemed that his son required full time care and attention"!!!!!
I was sick to my stomach. Saving a few bob and making this mans life even more difficult than it must already be.
When you see and hear the figures for salaries/consultants etc etc it is sickening.
You can really see who our government are responsible to and for.
And it isnt the people of this country.
Its the people that our government really work for.

AlekSmart

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Exactly. So much ado about nothing. It shows how the non issue has been hijacked by those with other agendas, so that they can exploit they wider population to unwittingly, seemingly, support their caus e.

Worse still it has been clasped to the bosoms of those with no agenda at all,but who have a calling to revolt,rebel and instil this same zeal in everybody else.

Even now,we see the Dec 10th folks lookin to browbeat SIPTU into calling for strikes on the day as part of a day of "Action".

To what end ?

Amidst the loud clamour for rebellion,revolt and all the rest,there appears to be very little actual reference to what's supposed to happen then........plan B if you will....?

homerjay2005

gladrags wrote: »

Latest Poll RTE...

"The poll indicates Fine Gael is down four points to 22%. 

Labour Party is indicated to be unchanged on 8%. 

The poll suggests Fianna Fáil remain at 18%.

Sinn Féin are suggested to be on 22%, an increase of two points, indicating the party's support is level with Fine Gael.

The poll indicates that Independents and smaller parties are the most popular group among the voters surveyed, with support up two points to 30%."

Thoughts?

Thoughts? If Sinn Fein get in, this country is f*cked. The mid to high earners will be really really screwed over.

queensinead

Highflyer13 wrote: »

Irish Water was the catalyst to get people out on the streets when in hindsight we should probably have been out years ago. Yeah I believe everything that is bad about this country (except for a sexual abuse scandal) has possibly manifested itself in the form of Irish Water. Lies, greed, huge misuse of public funds on consultants, cronyism, alleged corruption, links to DOB, intrusions into peoples lives via PPS numbers, threats, arrogance from political elite, high salaries for non achievers and much much more. Also the anger of nobody being held to account for the crash aswell has been simmering for years and people are probably viewing IW subconsciously as another mechanism to pay back our debts.

Lord knows there has been enough scandals involving the aforementioned over the years and every bit of it has manifested in IW. People have simply been driven over the edge. I wouldn't expect it to die down soon.

But how are we going to eliminate vague vices like "greed" by protesting? Pride, covetousness, lust, gluttony, envy..we can't get rid of the Seven Deadly Sins just by taking to the streets. They're part of the human condition, and whatever group we vote in, you can be sure there'll be a few greed merchants among them

The PPS intrusion issue has been sorted

Arrogance? Again,the arrogant ye shall probably always have with ye

Nobody held accountable for the crash.? These protests are hardly gong to change that

Protesters need a single clear focus if they are to achieve anything concrete, not a list as long as your arm about everything.

They also need to know what they want to achieve, realistically. What exactly they want, what they would settle for--like when workers go on strike. What is their bottom line?

If it is the abolition of the water charge, fine. Then focus on the water charge

But everyone bringing their own pet issue to the protests, and political groupings bringing their own political agendas and political ambitions,...that is not an effective way in my view to get a result

Highflyer13

queensinead wrote: »

But how are we going to eliminate vague vices like "greed" by protesting? Pride, covetousness, lust, gluttony, envy..we can't get rid of the Seven Deadly Sins just by taking to the streets. They're part of the human condition, and whatever group we vote in, you can be sure there'll be a few greed merchants among them

The PPS intrusion issue has been sorted

Arrogance? Again,the arrogant ye shall probably always have with ye

Nobody held accountable for the crash.? These protests are hardly gong to change that

Protesters need a single clear focus if they are to achieve anything concrete, not a list as long as your arm about everything.

They also need to know what they want to achieve, realistically. What exactly they want, what they would settle for--like when workers go on strike. What is their bottom line?

If it is the abolition of the water charge, fine. Then focus on the water charge

But everyone bringing their own pet issue to the protests, and political groupings bringing their own political agendas and political ambitions,...that is not an effective way in my view to get a result

I think almost everybody on the marches agree that IW needs to be abolished in its current form. The protests are effective, look at the climb downs from the govt so far.

foggy_lad

queensinead wrote: »

OK. "Paying for water in a different way than we're paying for it now"

Phew! Do I have to write that every time?

Just not paying for it twice like we are expected to do now! The government want to charge for water which they state is already paid for from taxation so where are they reducing taxes by the same amount as we are expected to pay in charges?

Going Forward

Red Pepper wrote: »

Really??? Interesting...

Given what you know, you would hire Hubert Kearns and John Tierney into Irish Water?

No wonder your username is an anagram for "Our Scary Veil".

You are a charlatan!!

:P

It's also an anagram for "Ivy Real Scour" (say it fast)

...

Hubert Kearns isn't employed by Irish Water.


It was brought up earlier today on the other IW thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=93139899&postcount=7282

Going Forward

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

They govt started out with honesty. But some people went ape. Couldn't handle the truth. Buried their heads in the sand and didn't want to know that that is what water costs. So the govt was forc d to change the line. As if they were dealing with recalcitrant children. Its sparing the rod though, and in the longer term, is to the detriment of the children.

If you class hiring advisers which broke their own pay caps the minute they got in the door as being honourable, I'd disagree.

As regards honesty in the setting up of Irish Water, not one person can give a valid explanation for the panicked set up, was it the MOU that FF signed up or was it because of the requirements of the Water Framework Directive, which Ireland sought from and was granted a derogation from domestic water charging- no one knows if this derogation was withdrawn or is still in place, Fianna Fail negotiated it, it was open ended, yet Fine Gael are the ones relinquishing it, in a blatant con job of figures to be presented to the EC to see if it will pass some economics test.

It's most certainly not because of the money or deficit, even the first round of figures was just going to add E300 million on full compliance.

Now the net income figure after the "conservation pay off" is extracted is going to be around E140 million for the foreseeable future.

We know its a sham, they know its a sham, and the EC will also know, but will allow it to pass their test, to ensure that at least the hardware is in place for the next round of trying to introduce water charges in full or even meaningful cost recovery mode.

Painful as it is for those proponents of charging for water to admit, cost recovery is EU policy , meaning that unless non domestic users are properly charged, the domestic sector will subsidise everyone else.

The Government's acknowledgement of this fact is the ONLY thing that will keep water charges as low as what they have been recently announced.

But the Government hasn't acknowledged this...........more dishonesty/lack of honesty.

There are no protests from the non domestic sector about their water charges.

They're keeping the heads down right now.
Drawn from the combined pharma/industry/agri/commercial sectors, is a contribution of the grand total of just E200m to the E1.2billion annual water bill.

Highflyer13

They really are a pathetic bunch in the Indo these days.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/protest-gardai-under-protection-from-water-mob-30766307.html

foggy_lad

Highflyer13 wrote: »

They really are a pathetic bunch in the Indo these days.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/protest-gardai-under-protection-from-water-mob-30766307.html

What a load of horse manure and auld claptrap. It says one Gardai had his legs burned when he was pushed up against the radiator of moan Burtons car at the tallaght protest, what the f@©k! Are they saying he was crushed so hard against the car his legs ended up in the engine bay? What breed of absolute moron wrote that shlte? They should be tarred and feathered!

MouseTail

foggy_lad wrote: »

They should be tarred and feathered!

You are calling for journalists in a free democracy to be tarred and feathered?

Pocoyo

Pocoyo wrote: »

The news papers need to get real they are embarrassing the country.

Pocoyo

In Lonesome Dove wrote: »

I didn't see this but I very much would believe this going by my own circumstances. Around three years ago my employer couldn't pay me as much so dropped my hours. With an income down to 240 a week, I had no choice but to move back home. I just couldn't afford the rent on my place on that. Now, my hours has increased tenfold but not my wage).

Barely surviving is the new thriving.

Banjo String

MouseTail wrote: »

You are calling for journalists in a free democracy to be tarred and feathered?

Shot with balls of their own dung. Boiled in their own piss.

It's a figure of speech. Calm down.

gladrags

Highflyer13 wrote: »

They really are a pathetic bunch in the Indo these days.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/protest-gardai-under-protection-from-water-mob-30766307.html

Cusack makes it up as he goes along.

Another one in a long line of opionionators,who feel they don't need proof or named source.

Highflyer13

Highflyer13 wrote: »

They really are a pathetic bunch in the Indo these days.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/water/irish-water-crisis/protest-gardai-under-protection-from-water-mob-30766307.html

Don't like reading the truth? This is one of the best pieces ever written. Says it all http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/coppinger-wont-let-truth-get-in-the-way-30766264.html

Pocoyo

'Denis O’Brien, Ireland’s most powerful media owner, is – as an individual – exercising an extraordinarily chilling effect on journalism and journalists after grossly negative findings against him in the Moriarty Tribunal'

Ever wonder why the media are so anti protest,well........

The tax exile(fact) Denis O'Brien a man that bribes politicians(fact) and had 300 million of debt wrote off by the banks(fact) also owns a stake in the company that installs the water meters...

He also has owns...

The irish independent
The herald
The sunday independent
The Sunday world
newstalk106
98fm
spin fm

....And 14 other titles.


This government is giving away our Taxes, while this evil man is stealing our wealth and laughing as the equality gap grows.

michael999999

MouseTail wrote: »

You are calling for journalists in a free democracy to be tarred and feathered?

There is no such thing as free democrasy when you work for Denis o Brien and INM. He tells them the editorial and the sock puppets write a story to match.

Have a google of Denis o Brien and the Moriarty tribunal and see just how fine Gaels sugar daddy Denis made he's money and then get back to us about free democracy!

Banjo String

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't like reading the truth? This is one of the best pieces ever written. Says it all http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/coppinger-wont-let-truth-get-in-the-way-30766264.html

You realise that is an opinion piece by Brendan O'Connor, the bulk of which he is defending the independent (whom he writes for, and therefore probably receives cheques for doing so) from people accusing it of being biased?

You also understand that you are on record on this very site of calling the independent . ie as "nothing more than a Fianna Fáil rag" on several occasions, (i think it was because you didn't like the results of opinion polls at the time) I'm on a mobile at present, but I'm sure someone could link to the posts.

How and ever, if you are that easily swayed by an opinion piece, I have some delightful bottles of snake oil here.

2 for the price of 3.

michael999999

Pocoyo wrote: »

'Denis O’Brien, Ireland’s most powerful media owner, is – as an individual – exercising an extraordinarily chilling effect on journalism and journalists after grossly negative findings against him in the Moriarty Tribunal'

Ever wonder why the media are so anti protestations,well........

The tax exile(fact) Denis O'Brien a man that bribes politicians(fact) and had 300 million of debt wrote off by the banks(fact) also owns a stake in the company that installs the water meters...

He also has owns...

The irish independent
The herald
The sunday independent
The Sunday world
newstalk106
98fm
spin fm

....And 14 other titles.


This government is giving away our Taxes, while this evil man is stealing our wealth and laughing as the equality gap grows.

And is a major fine Gael benifactor. I hear he's nickname in the fine Gael party is Uncle Denis!

queensinead

queensinead wrote: »

Is this true for all protesters,though?

Are some of them just protesting against water charges, or are they really protesting, as you claim, against the years of scandal, corruption, cronyism, tribunals and so on?

How do we know they're all protesting against the same thing?

Enda Kenny said about the Jobstown protest "It's not about water" Was he right?

When RTE did a vox pop on the day of the mass peaceful protests, what surprised me was the variety of answers given. Some protesters seemed obsessed by PPS numbers. Others insisted "I'd have no problem paying for water but....."
Still others said they would not give a penny because they were paying already
Others just wanted "this government out" and obviously had a political agenda of their own.

Surely it would make more sense to focus on one issue and fight for that with one unified voice?

Rather than this "it's about everything...it's about cronyism...it's about this government...it's about the last government too and their cronies and the tribunals that led nowhere...it's about life, death and the universe"

thats what I'm protesting about (highlighted above)

I had already signed up for IW and given my PPS No. But it was only after that the issues of bonuses, overstaffing, lack of clarity about charges, the likelihood of huge increases in the years to come, the monopoly of this monster of Irish Water came out.

NO WAY now do I support Irish Water - Enda Kenny and the Government were behind it's set up. They must think we are a stupid nation of people, never questioning, always paying up like good little boys.
We were almost hoodwinked. The Government look incompetent now - but more than anyone else (apart from Phil Hogan) I dislike Enda Kenny and his disdain for his own people.

This has been a huge shock to them but my trust is completely gone in this present government. Nothing now will get that back for me.

gladrags

So who is telling the truth here?

This is a piece from Sheehan in the Sindo this morning.

Begg is contradicted by the Gardai.

The Gardai remember,have made no official statement.

The Sindo are quoting "Gardai sources", which could be anyone.

"Mr Begg yesterday told reporters at a conference that he "happened to know one of the people who was in the Tanaiste's car, a young woman, and she was very badly kicked and beaten by some of these people". He said that kind of behaviour was unpalatable and not in the interests of worker.

The Sunday Independent has learnt that the young woman is Karen O'Connell.

Garda sources last night said Ms O'Connell was fortunate she had not been "badly beaten".

twowheelsgood

Banjo String wrote: »

You realise that is an opinion piece by Brendan O'Connor, the bulk of which he is defending the independent (whom he writes for, and therefore probably receives cheques for doing so) from people accusing it of being biased?

Yes what you say is true but that in itself does not negate his central point.

A claim made against the Sunday Independent is that their reporting is biased against the protesters and that they were so-doing because they were fans of the austerity agenda.

O’ Connor is arguing that this is not the case and that they, including him, have been consistently critical of austerity policies over the years. Are you disputing his claim on this matter?

dav3

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't like reading the truth? This is one of the best pieces ever written. Says it all http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/coppinger-wont-let-truth-get-in-the-way-30766264.html

If you think a piece by Brendan O'Connor is "one of the best pieces ever written", there's not much hope for you. We may as well start taking opinion pieces from Jedward seriously too.

Tinkersbell

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't like reading the truth?

The sindo and the truth???
Two words the certainly don't belong in the same sentence.
Well maybe this one,
The sindo wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and bit them in the face.

The sindo is like the Sun newaspaper, after the Hillsborough disaster they had the big headline 'The Truth' where they went on to make slanderous claims against Liverpool fans caught up in that disaster.

At least in Britian though, they had the good sense to resign and to sack a few of the journalists.
That certainly wouldn't happen in this backward country.

Tinkersbell

dav3 wrote: »

If you think a piece by Brendan O'Connor is "one of the best pieces ever written", there's not much hope for you. We may as well start taking opinion pieces from Jedward seriously too.

It's Brendan O'Connor FFS, the same guy who had an ex-RNU secretary on his show last night.....
If anyone seen the interview, she was asked about going public and replied "When we started.......then she caught herself and said...When I started this etc etc.....

Banjo String

twowheelsgood wrote: »

Yes what you say is true but that in itself does not negate his central point.

A claim made against the Sunday Independent is that their reporting is biased against the protesters and that they were so-doing because they were fans of the austerity agenda.

O’ Connor is arguing that this is not the case and that they, including him, have been consistently critical of austerity policies over the years. Are you disputing his claim on this matter?

I have pointed out earlier on the last threads, the Indo has been a sharp critic of austerity, and of certain members of Govt, exposing hogan's refusing to pay his Portuguese property/services charge, Reilly in stubbs, etc.

That might well be to benefit the "FF rag" in them, and because their owner wouldn't be affected financially by these stories, so they ran with them relentlessly.

This isn't the same with tarnishing off water meter protests, and the people who attend them. Simply because GMC Sierra were awarded the contract to install them..... GMC Sierra, of course is owned by the same man.... Only in this instance he does stand to gain financially if they succeed in getting the meter contract complete.

Besides all that, my main point was that someone cannot be on this site, discrediting anything a paper writes as a "FF rag" when their agenda isn't suited, then claim that an opinion piece from a columnist (who I made no claim of opinion on either way) is

Don't like reading the truth ? This is one of the best pieces ever written .

stretching it a bit..... No?

I mean I have an opinion too, everyone has one.

shinzon

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't like reading the truth? This is one of the best pieces ever written. Says it all http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/coppinger-wont-let-truth-get-in-the-way-30766264.html

Hard hitting Journalism there if ever I saw it

:rolleyes:

Shin

Streetwalker

Deleted User wrote: »

Don't like reading the truth? This is one of the best pieces ever written. Says it all http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/coppinger-wont-let-truth-get-in-the-way-30766264.html

Hard to believe that qualifies as journalism in any way, shape or form. Utter drivel.

gladrags

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Don't like reading the truth? This is one of the best pieces ever written. Says it all http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/brendan-oconnor/coppinger-wont-let-truth-get-in-the-way-30766264.html

Are you for real,Brendan O'Connor?

Here is a better example of his version of truth from 2007,when he and the Sindo were propping up the bankers ,the corrupt FF party,and the developers.

At the time the market were crashing all round.

The Ballsy Guys..

"SO THE sky is falling in again. The Irish stock market is apparently in meltdown, because of the housing market, which is also apparently in meltdown. The level of property horror stories is at an all-time high and everyone is tripping over each other to predict even greater gloom than the next guy.

Tell you what, I think I know what I'd be doing if I had money, and if I wasn't already massively over-exposed to the property market by virtue of owning a reasonable home. I'd be buying property. In fact, I might do it anyway. You don't even need money to buy property these days. Imagine if you walked into the bank and said, "Listen, guys. I want to gamble a million on the stock market. I have 100 grand myself, will you guys lend me 900 grand at really low rates and I'll pay you back over 40 years? In fact I won't even pay off the principal, I'll just pay off the interest." They'd laugh you out of it. But substitute gambling on the property market for gambling on the stock market and they'll fall over themselves to give it to you.

So why would I be buying property right now if I could? Well, for starters, property is good value these days. It's certainly cheaper than it was six months ago. While the official figures on aggregate surveys are talking about drops of two to three per cent in property prices, anyone who is out there in the jungle will tell you that it is a buyer's market bigtime."