Would you snitch on a dole cheat?

Means Of Escape

ireland.man wrote: »

17000 people "suddenly haven't had enough", a jump from 600 people. It's a rise in fraud itself, not of people reporting. There's an increase in fraud because there's been an increase in hardship. The rates correlate exactly to the economic bust. So people are taking the decision, rightly or wrongly depending on your viewpoint, to do everything to make ends meet.

Criticise people for cheating the welfare system but let's not demonise them. Let's not talk about their lifestyles compared to India, let's not talk about them in feckless terms, let's not used tired cliches about the working class. And for god's sake let's not create a surveillance system whereby ordinary people inform on each other- it's not a clever way to rectify this problem and it'll be damaging to the social fabric in the long run.

No let's talk about India or Pakistan to put this argument into perspective
I don't know of a family in the country who has their kids rooting through rubbish for food or sleeping under an overpass at night with only the clothes on their backs
There's a level of entitlement here in this country . You won't work but you'll get paid for sitting at home scratching yourself.
People report scammers same way as they would report their car having been knocked off.theft is theft.
Seems to me the moaning welfare crowd and the rat callers are the crowd who have weathered the economic storm better than those who bothered to get off their asses to work.
People out of work most certainly should have welfare ie disability allowances etc. Most of the complaints here are related to those who can work but won't because the fraud they are committing is v lucrative
Decent standard of living my arse.

Graces7

Means Of Escape wrote: »

No let's talk about India or Pakistan to put this argument into perspective
I don't know of a family in the country who has their kids rooting through rubbish for food or sleeping under an overpass at night with only the clothes on their backs
There's a level of entitlement here in this country . You won't work but you'll get paid for sitting at home scratching yourself.
People report scammers same way as they would report their car having been knocked off.theft is theft.
Seems to me the moaning welfare crowd and the rat callers are the crowd who have weathered the economic storm better than those who bothered to get off their asses to work.
People out of work most certainly should have welfare ie disability allowances etc. Most of the complaints here are related to those who can work but won't because the fraud they are committing is v lucrative
Decent standard of living my arse.

Thank you for this sanity. I have extended family who work in India, gathering in babies dumped at birth in ditches or in rubbish heaps. It has balanced my view of living standards. The poverty is appalling.

l am aware of and thankful for the welfare system we have here which I find more than enough to live on .

What seems to be a problem is that many got used to luxuries etc and are finding it very hard to adjust now. And it is hard but it can be done. I am blessed in that I was many years on disability so can live on less very easily.

Downsizing is hard but it makes me mad when folk call the pension " a pittance" and scorn it. And say eg that the govt are starving old folk .... even three generation ago I and many would be in the workhouse.. shudders!

There is a balance between all of this. There has to be the willingness.

ireland.man

Means Of Escape wrote: »

No let's talk about India or Pakistan to put this argument into perspective
I don't know of a family in the country who has their kids rooting through rubbish for food or sleeping under an overpass at night with only the clothes on their backs...

It's called "poverty denialism". There's some who deny the hardships people face in relatively wealthy countries. It's based on three assumptions:

1) The Irish poor are rich by global standards so shouldn't complain- their suffering isn't real

Firstly, poverty is calculated relative to each society, rather than a single figure income globally. In Ireland people who grow up poor suffer mental illness, life long problems and real pain. Saying that Irish poor have it better than others is like saying a man shouldn't feel bad or complain about being stabbed because some people are shot in other parts of the world!

2) The poor here buy consumer goods in abundance. (when I saw this I bet you're all imagining runners and flatscreen tvs since these two items are most spoken about in right-wing discourse, the media, etc).

Nobody seriously believes that if poor people sold their possessions they'd manage to fund a better lifestyle for themselves in which welfare would not be needed. And it ignores the fact that most possessions are bought when people have jobs. Remember, poverty and the numbers on the dole skyrocketed post-2007 so let's not pretend we're talking about the 1.5% of long-term claimants from the boom years.

3) That the poor in Ireland are somehow a static group and a majority have always been on welfare and many commit fraud from some moral failings in their personality rather than some inappropriate response to structural problems not of their making.

It doesn't matter what I type, really since some people will always have an ignorant and negative view of poor people and people on welfare. Some will always think welfare recipients are dishonest, irresponsible, scamming the system and stealing money from hard working taxpayers.

Means Of Escape

If you read my post I said that people were entitled to social welfare
The problem I have is that those genuinely in need of state support could be allowed more if the scammers were weeded out
I have shown the amount of overpayments in a previous post and the money list to fraudsters could be channeled to those who are marginalised
The way I see it the fraudsters want their creature comforts which is more than a "decent standard of living"
The theory for them is that if others have it so should I even though they won't get out and work for it.
That's why you have thefts of goods occurring daily
Again there is no abject poverty in this country as we have a very generous welfare system as I pointed out in facts also .
If you talk about poverty then you must quantify what is poverty and it's not someone who hasn't two TVs or a satellite dish but most want them but can't afford them so will commit theft to get them despite not being prepared to work
Social welfare fraud isn't about survival it's about wanting what others have but not prepared to pay or work for it .
But you will .

ireland.man

Means Of Escape wrote: »

If you read my post I said that people were entitled to social welfare
The problem I have is that those genuinely in need of state support could be allowed more if the scammers were weeded out
I have shown the amount of overpayments in a previous post and the money list to fraudsters could be channeled to those who are marginalised
The way I see it the fraudsters want their creature comforts which is more than a "decent standard of living"
The theory for them is that if others have it so should I even though they won't get out and work for it.
That's why you have thefts of goods occurring daily
Again there is no abject poverty in this country as we have a very generous welfare system as I pointed out in facts also .
If you talk about poverty then you must quantify what is poverty and it's not someone who hasn't two TVs or a satellite dish but most want them but can't afford them so will commit theft to get them despite not being prepared to work
Social welfare fraud isn't about survival it's about wanting what others have but not prepared to pay or work for it .
But you will .

You must be living in some idyllic part of the country because I'm surrounded by anxiety-ridden, desperate workers and welfare recipients. One one hand you mention the deserving poor, then you downplay the existence of serious poverty. Their struggles, what is rightly called relative poverty, should not be denied by anyone and not belittled with references to property theft and references to satellite dishes. Hunger, lack of heating for elderly people, lack of appropriate clothing, furniture, bedding, struggles over mortgages and rents, fear of losing jobs or never working again, etc, etc, etc, exist in modern Ireland and no amount of denialism will change that fact.

"In Ireland, food poverty levels have been rising due to the recession, and – according
to the most recent figures – one-in-ten people living in Ireland now experience food
poverty. They are households with children struggling to cope with below-the-radar cuts,
increased charges and rising prices."
http://www.mandate.ie/Documents/104355_food_poverty_document4.pdf

• The number of people who went without heating at some stage in the past 12 months (6% in 2007, 12.9% in 2012);
• The number unable to afford new clothes (5.2% in 2007, 10.4% in 2012);
• The number unable to eat a meal with meat, chicken or fish every second day (2.2% in 2007, 3.9% in 2012);
• Those unable to afford to replace worn-out furniture (13.8% in 2007, 24.5% in 2012).

"UNICEF report finds 10% rise in child poverty in Ireland"
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1028/655244-unicef/

Means Of Escape

ireland.man wrote: »

You must be living in some idyllic part of the country because I'm surrounded by anxiety-ridden, desperate workers and welfare recipients. One one hand you mention the deserving poor, then you downplay the existence of serious poverty. Their struggles, what is rightly called relative poverty, should not be denied by anyone and not belittled with references to property theft and references to satellite dishes. Hunger, lack of heating for elderly people, lack of appropriate clothing, furniture, bedding, struggles over mortgages and rents, fear of losing jobs or never working again, etc, etc, etc, exist in modern Ireland and no amount of denialism will change that fact.

"In Ireland, food poverty levels have been rising due to the recession, and – according
to the most recent figures – one-in-ten people living in Ireland now experience food
poverty. They are households with children struggling to cope with below-the-radar cuts,
increased charges and rising prices."
http://www.mandate.ie/Documents/104355_food_poverty_document4.pdf

• The number of people who went without heating at some stage in the past 12 months (6% in 2007, 12.9% in 2012);
• The number unable to afford new clothes (5.2% in 2007, 10.4% in 2012);
• The number unable to eat a meal with meat, chicken or fish every second day (2.2% in 2007, 3.9% in 2012);
• Those unable to afford to replace worn-out furniture (13.8% in 2007, 24.5% in 2012).

"UNICEF report finds 10% rise in child poverty in Ireland"
http://www.rte.ie/news/2014/1028/655244-unicef/

Again those people who truly deserve assistance should get it
Commiting welfare fraud takes from those people and you whatever way you roll the dice

Everyone got it in the neck and suffered during the recession.Should we all commit theft for a means to an end?
Are those who don't that are really struggling the fools for not providing for their family whatever way they can?
Do you really believe that welfare fraudsters are doing it to just to simply feed,heat,and clothe their family members and nothing else?

I deny that the poverty in Ireland is akin to that in India or Pakistan

P.K.M.

suicide_circus wrote: »

Why didn't you just pull a phony insurance claim like pretending to slip on a wet floor in tesco? That could have bagged you 10+ grand! Would have covered loads of bills and expenses

Good idea that! Might try that if I'm ever in the same situation again. Cheers.

Graces7 wrote: »

[/B]

No; the honest folk who would manage and do manage on welfare without cheating. If you were capable of earning then that i how you should have been working and not claiming welfare. Calling honest caring citizens nasty names does not impress one iota!Shame on you!

I was/am capable, qualified and willing... unlike some of the wasters who live in my area. I was involved in a hit & run, was left for dead on the side of the road (and as a consequence lost my job cos I was out for so long) and was on disability for a year, then I came off disability and onto Jobseekers, as I'm not one to take the piss and stay on disability for the sake of it. My inbox/sent items is full of job applications and rejections from the numerous positions I applied for. I got the usual sh!te: too old, too qualified, not qualified enough etc etc.

I never said what I did was right, but I did what I had to. The difference is that I WANTED to work!! I agree there's plenty out there (and around where I live as I said) who actually don't want to work, have no intention of working, but will scam the system as much as they can. What THEY do is wrong.

Means Of Escape wrote: »

The theory for them is that if others have it so should I even though they won't get out and work for it.

<snip>

Social welfare fraud isn't about survival it's about wanting what others have but not prepared to pay or work for it.

This! ^^^

fasttalkerchat

Meathlass wrote: »

Yes, that person in your description is a dole cheat. A couple of days work @ 8.65 an hour into the hand is €121 a week. I would have absolutely no hesitation in making a report.

Not many cash in hand jobs pay minimum wage these days. €5 washing dishes in a restaurant at a few hours notice is more like it.

Means Of Escape

P.K.M. wrote: »

Good idea that! Might try that if I'm ever in the same situation again. Cheers.



I was/am capable, qualified and willing... unlike some of the wasters who live in my area. I was involved in a hit & run, was left for dead on the side of the road (and as a consequence lost my job cos I was out for so long) and was on disability for a year, then I came off disability and onto Jobseekers, as I'm not one to take the piss and stay on disability for the sake of it. My inbox/sent items is full of job applications and rejections from the numerous positions I applied for. I got the usual sh!te: too old, too qualified, not qualified enough etc etc.

I never said what I did was right, but I did what I had to. The difference is that I WANTED to work!! I agree there's plenty out there (and around where I live as I said) who actually don't want to work, have no intention of working, but will scam the system as much as they can. What THEY do is wrong.



This! ^^^

If a fraudster can scan more than what they are entitled to and this gives them a comfortable living why would they work?
You probably could have stayed on disability longer and with a better allowance if the scammers weren't screwing the system.
The money lost to this type of behaviour (50million ) could be channeled to those who CANT work .
Someone has to pay for fraudulent activity and it's usually the tax payer