McDonalds; another planning application

2011

Alun wrote: »

Whatever about a drive in fast food outlet on that site, once all the schools there get up to full speed, it's going to be total gridlock there at certain times of the day.

+1

Temple Carrig only have 1st and 2nd years at present.

Now that McDonalds have the go ahead I would not be surprised if similar establishments such as KFC follow.

FirstIn

The traffic is crazy getting to and going through blacklion at certain times of the day. And yes it is going to get worse.

Is there anything certain in the pipeline to do anything about this?

We seem to get many things back to front. The infrastructure must be upgraded first and then the building afterwards.

Whoever is responsible should be ashamed. It's so short sighted what they've let happen.

loyatemu

According to the Face Buke they're going to open up the road through to Blacklion soon, this should reduce the morning traffic on the Bray rd.

Cerco

greig wrote: »

Lein, if anyone does not understand the traffic problems in the area I would suggest going down between 8.45 and 9.15 where it now takes me 30 minutes to get out my estate and on to the main road.

Cannot imagine a rush to McDonalds at that time of morning. Saying that I seldom if ever go near them so I maybe totally wrong.

jobless

loyatemu wrote: »

According to the Face Buke they're going to open up the road through to Blacklion soon, this should reduce the morning traffic on the Bray rd.

got a link?, i hope it happens soon because the town is becoming a traffic nightmare

loyatemu

jobless wrote: »

got a link?, i hope it happens soon because the town is becoming a traffic nightmare

It's on Councillor Jennifer Whitmore's page. There are 2 bits of new road that have to be built, between Blacklion Manor and the top of Applewood, and at St Laurences school; but the council are only planning to build the Blacklion bit now which will mean more traffic at Laurence's going past the school itself, so the Laurences parents obviously want the other bit built at the same time.

Here's the map:

The Real B-man

Alun wrote: »

Whatever about a drive in fast food outlet on that site, once all the schools there get up to full speed, it's going to be total gridlock there at certain times of the day.

It's the same in every center of population in the Country Rush hour can't be avoided no matter how many roads you build and the geography of our towns and cities wasn't designed for Cars and the increasing number of kids dropped to school by cars.

Poor forward planning probably doesn't help either.

If you put the schools off the N11 it would still be gridlock as it currently is in the mornings.

loyatemu

The Real B-man wrote: »

It's the same in every center of population in the Country Rush hour can't be avoided no matter how many roads you build and the geography of our towns and cities wasn't designed for Cars and the increasing number of kids dropped to school by cars.

Poor forward planning probably doesn't help either.

If you put the schools off the N11 it would still be gridlock as it currently is in the mornings.

poor planning has exacerbated the problem in Greystones - all the schools are in the town centre or at the northern end; all the residential growth has been at the southern end of the town, so huge number of school age kids now live in Charlesland and Eden Gate and have to go through the village to get to school.

The new school opening in Charlesland will help somewhat - they should have built Temple Carrig at that end of the town too though (it would also be nearer to all the sports facilities, and further from McD's )

Eponymous

loyatemu wrote: »

poor planning has exacerbated the problem in Greystones - all the schools are in the town centre or at the northern end; all the residential growth has been at the southern end of the town, so huge number of school age kids now live in Charlesland and Eden Gate and have to go through the village to get to school.

The new school opening in Charlesland will help somewhat - they should have built Temple Carrig at that end of the town too though (it would also be nearer to all the sports facilities, and further from McD's )

At risk of steering the thread completely off-topic - who in Charlesland would take their kids out of the existing national schools and place them in the new NS when it opens?

loyatemu

Eponymous wrote: »

At risk of steering the thread completely off-topic - who in Charlesland would take their kids out of the existing national schools and place them in the new NS when it opens?

They won't - the new school is already open and is starting with just Junior Infants. It's currently in a single classroom in (yes!) Temple Carrig, but will be moving to the Rugby Club shortly while they wait for a permanent building in Charlesland.

Annasopra

The Real B-man wrote: »

It's the same in every center of population in the Country Rush hour can't be avoided no matter how many roads you build and the geography of our towns and cities wasn't designed for Cars and the increasing number of kids dropped to school by cars.

Poor forward planning probably doesn't help either.

If you put the schools off the N11 it would still be gridlock as it currently is in the mornings.

If all the new schools had been placed between Eden Gate and Charlesland it would have alleviated huge amounts of that cross town traffic.

Shazerina

loyatemu wrote: »

poor planning has exacerbated the problem in Greystones - all the schools are in the town centre or at the northern end; all the residential growth has been at the southern end of the town, so huge number of school age kids now live in Charlesland and Eden Gate and have to go through the village to get to school.

The new school opening in Charlesland will help somewhat - they should have built Temple Carrig at that end of the town too though (it would also be nearer to all the sports facilities, and further from McD's )

Totally agree re the new ss. Siting it in Charlesland would have been far more sensible. And it might have made mcd's less interested in blacklion.

FirstIn

In regards to the placement of the school most of us agree that where they placed it was really dumb.

However, who are they?

Politicians? Town planners? Dept of this or that. Does anyone know?

Annasopra

FirstIn wrote: »

In regards to the placement of the school most of us agree that where they placed it was really dumb.

However, who are they?

Politicians? Town planners? Dept of this or that. Does anyone know?

Mainly planners and politicians

Wicklow co co planners would have zoned the land, politicians would have voted on the zoning

loyatemu

I believe the department of education already owned (or had some sort of option on) the site at Blacklion.

Back at one of the early meetings about the new secondary school (it was Educate Together who initially campaigned for it) I suggested the IDA site would be a good location, close to sports facilities, already owned by a govt body. Derek Mitchell subsequently looked into it but I don't the IDA were interested in letting the site go and they're now trying to sell it. Maybe St. Davids could move there?

In related news, St. Brigid's who were at one point slated to move to Charlesland due to the lack of space at their current site, have acquired the adjacent convent which had been up for auction, so they'll definitely be staying where they are.

FirstIn

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Mainly planners and politicians

Wicklow co co planners would have zoned the land, politicians would have voted on the zoning

So we pay these guys salaries. They make dumb decisions and we live with the consequences.
If I made mistakes like this in my work I'd have no work.

They keep talking about an election. I'm really looking forward to talking with some of the candidates when they come to my door.

Oh, I see we had another spate of thefts/break-ins in Charlesland last night. That's another topic for my doorstep chats.
"so why is it you are so soft on criminals?"
"I see we had another chap with 100 odd previous convictions out on bail carry out..

recedite

loyatemu wrote: »

They won't - the new school is already open and is starting with just Junior Infants. It's currently in a single classroom in (yes!) Temple Carrig, but will be moving to the Rugby Club shortly while they wait for a permanent building in Charlesland.

It must be strange for the principal, being in charge of just one class, in somebody else's school.
Is that woman in the photo also a teacher in the primary school?

Annasopra

Folks this is about McDonalds. Everyone (including me) has gone wildly off topic

clocha_liatha

as an expanding town greystones has issues and traffic management and planning are coming more to the fore nowadays.
recent controversy re planning and the granting of permission to mcdonalds to build beside 3 schools at blacklion is causing some debate,for me i have no problem with mcd's coming to greystones , it will give much needed employment opportunities. it is in the wrong place though besides being beside 3 schools traffic at that junction is already extremely busy , 2 big housing estates, 3 schools add in school matches, LIDL and Funerals in redford cemetery and now a macdonalds , crazy planning . Already last sunday morning there was a schools game at the new pitch in templecarrig school and cars were parked in the middle median strip of road up to lidl. crazy situation about to get worse

Cerco

clocha_liatha wrote: »

it is in the wrong place though besides being beside 3 schools traffic at that junction is already extremely busy , 2 big housing estates, 3 schools add in school matches, LIDL and Funerals in redford cemetery and now a macdonalds , crazy planning . Already last sunday morning there was a schools game at the new pitch in templecarrig school and cars were parked in the middle median strip of road up to lidl. crazy situation about to get worse

Certainly not getting worse for McDs. With the catchment area you have outlined , it is obvious they picked a prime location from their perspective.
Interesting to watch how this develops.

Annasopra

astrofluff wrote: »

Legal challenge could be a judaical review but there would need to have been a failing in the application of laws in determing the permission. Plus does anyone have the money to do it on the third party/objector's side?

Possible judicial review being mentioned elsewhere

https://www.facebook.com/groups/greystonesnews/permalink/1153034121376944/

LEIN

Who is going to fund this?

This is getting very silly now and embarrassing for Greystones in general.

recedite

clocha_liatha wrote: »

Already last sunday morning there was a schools game at the new pitch in templecarrig school and cars were parked in the middle median strip of road up to lidl. crazy situation about to get worse

Well that is just pure laziness.
There is loads of parking a bit further up at the end of the road. And is the Lidl car park not open on a Sunday? A few parking tickets would sort out that kind of carry-on quick enough.
I can't see the new Mc Donalds exacerbating traffic at all, because their busy times do not correspond with the actual times of peak traffic in the area.

Jammyc

LEIN wrote: »

Who is going to fund this?

This is getting very silly now and embarrassing for Greystones in general.

It really is. I cringe a little when it's in the national media. The papers almost portray it as "Seaside town riles against multinational fast food chain to defend residents with better taste and poor self restraint."

Annasopra

LEIN wrote: »

Who is going to fund this?

I've no idea. They may find someone willing to do it pro bono.

There may not be sufficient grounds for an appeal

All I'm saying is - don't be surprised if there is a judicial review.

BigGeorge

Who owns the land that McDs wish to build upon? Is it a private landlord or Nama? it is a prime site alright, a captive audience nearby & a busy supermarket

I thought ages ago that Lidl property owned that corner plot, then had it for sale & then the signs came down so assume it sold

http://property.lidl.ie/cps/rde/xchg/lidl_ie/hs.xsl/property.htm

Harry Bosch

BigGeorge wrote: »

Who owns the land that McDs wish to build upon? Is it a private landlord or Nama? it is a prime site alright, a captive audience nearby & a busy supermarket

I thought ages ago that Lidl property owned that corner plot, then had it for sale & then the signs came down so assume it sold

Lidl owns at least part of the site. Lidl was asked by WCC and McDonald's if they would 'cede' some of their property to provide a 2.75 metre wide 'setback' along the main road, thus moving the site boundary a bit to the west.

For whatever reason Lidl have twice agreed — first during the initial application, in a letter to the Council dated 18 June 2013, and then again during the second application in an exactly similar letter dated 31 March 2015.

Here's the text — as a newbie I'm not allowed to post links, files, or images, SORRY.

"Lidl Ireland GmbH
Great Connell Road, Newbridge, Co Kildare

Planning Department
Wicklon County Council
County Buildings
Wicklow Town

Subject to Contract/ Contact Denied
31 March 2015

Re: Reg. Ref. 1412043 - Proposed Mixed-use Development at Blackllon, Greystones, Co. Wicklow.

To whom it may concern,

We refer to Item No.2 of the Request for Information dated 9 January 2915 in respect of the above-mentioned development.

We wish to confirm thal Lldl Ireland Gmbh are the legal owners of the subject site
where it is proposed to provide a Mixed-Use Development with ancillary works.
We hereby confirm that Lidl will cede to Wicklow County Council the setback as
shown in the drawing in Appendix A attached to this letter and coloured blue for
identification purposes only, if permission is granted for the subject scheme and Reg.
Ref. 14/2043 is subsequently developed.

Yours sincerely,

Paul Murray
Acquisitions Manager

Vincent Cronolly
Portfolio & Facilities Executive

Harry Bosch

I should also have added that I have heard from some of those opposing this McDonalds within 30 metres of three schools that they now plan to pressure Lidl in the hope Lidl may withdraw their agreement to cede, which is subject to contract.

I'm also told that if Lidl don't agree, a boycott of Lidl will be organised, with a big media circus to go with it.

With Lidl in a big expansion phase right now, and also out to be 'food friendly' with its resident chefs and claims of high quality food — they could be right.

Very bad image for Lidl to 'sponsor' Ronald McDonald right beside three schools by giving some of their land to the clown.

Hardly a shining model of 'corporate social responsibility', is it?

LEIN

Harry Bosch wrote: »

I should also have added that I have heard from some of those opposing this McDonalds within 30 metres of three schools that they now plan to pressure Lidl in the hope Lidl may withdraw their agreement to cede, which is subject to contract.

I'm also told that if Lidl don't agree, a boycott of Lidl will be organised, with a big media circus to go with it.

With Lidl in a big expansion phase right now, and also out to be 'food friendly' with its resident chefs and claims of high quality food — they could be right.

Very bad image for Lidl to 'sponsori' Ronald McDonald right beside three schools by giving some land to the clown.

Hardly a shining model of 'corporate social responsibility'.

This is becoming more laughable by the day.

Harry Bosch

LEIN wrote: »

This is becoming more laughable by the day.

Could you by any chance explain why you say that?

I know moderators are allowed express opinions, but perhaps they should explain them, too, especially as they hold such power as moderators.