McDonalds; another planning application

Godge

Alan_P wrote: »

And it's going to judicial review.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2015/1113/741676-mcdonalds/

Doubt they have the money, if they did, they would move.

clocha_liatha

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

The former script site will be Greystones medical centre - a GP practice.

thanks but thats not the site or building i was referring to , i think the big field before the first roundabout is for sale or zoned for development, surely a runner in my opinion anyway for a drive through, easy access to link road,within walking distance of village also.
peple are saying there is a snob element attached to the no to mcdonalds in greystones campaign , but i actually think that the majority of people within the town have no objection, its just the location for me anyway.

Annasopra

clocha_liatha wrote: »

thanks but thats not the site or building i was referring to , i think the big field before the first roundabout is for sale or zoned for development, surely a runner in my opinion anyway for a drive through, easy access to link road,within walking distance of village also.
peple are saying there is a snob element attached to the no to mcdonalds in greystones campaign , but i actually think that the majority of people within the town have no objection, its just the location for me anyway.

What the field after the script site just before the roundabout?

Thats a completely random location

Taltos

True, but it's also on an entry road to the town.
Close to a number of estates, closer to the town centre. Near a gym, so no need to build another and just down from a factory. Plus closer to traffic from the N11.

Nice idea, I'd be happy with it there, closest school is by the rugby club and wouldn't be in sight from the classrooms.

I had been thinking up nearer to GO, to get more N11 and Kilcoole traffic, but that location is handy for the town centre.

LEIN

Taltos wrote: »

True, but it's also on an entry road to the town.
Close to a number of estates, closer to the town centre. Near a gym, so no need to build another and just down from a factory. Plus closer to traffic from the N11.

Nice idea, I'd be happy with it there, closest school is by the rugby club and wouldn't be in sight from the classrooms.

I had been thinking up nearer to GO, to get more N11 and Kilcoole traffic, but that location is handy for the town centre.

Beside the proposed primary school in Charlesland? :eek:

Taltos

Didn't know that was where that was going, so scrub that immediately....

Harry Bosch

LEIN wrote: »

Beside the proposed primary school in Charlesland? :eek:

This is exactly why exclusion zones, as per the National Planning Guidelines of June 2013, are needed in development plans, county and local. As soon as someone mentions a possible site which seems appropriate, someone else can point out, as Lein does, that a school is planned nearby.

The No Fry Zone proposal sorts all this and will settle any arguments. 400 metres from a school is not very far — apparently our illustrious government was thinking of up to 1.5 kilometres before seemingly dropping the idea completely.

The rule of thumb applied by regulators elsewhere is the distance it takes 15 minutes to walk. For me, that would be about a mile which is close enough to 1.5km. But for a dawdling teen? Definitely less!

As for the Charlesland site — you can be sure that as soon as the school was announced some fast food company began eying it up and laying plans, which is exactly what happened at Blacklion. Once the school campus started, McDonalds began the application preparations.

So I would be warning parents on the south end of town — get in there and support the No Fry Zone campaign if you don't want a Burger King or KFC outside your new school.

Harry Bosch

clocha_liatha wrote: »

McDonald's for Greystones , as a resident of Redford Park i am certainly in favour but not in its planned location. Traffic is already a disaster at peak times, morning and evening rush hour to be precise. Siting a Mcdonalds drive through at that junction will only lead to more traffic chaos.

Indeed! Who allows a drive through in a cul de sac?

It's chaos already every day. I looked at the 80-page appeal by locals, and the impressive file of photos of traffic queues stretching all the way from the junction back down Redford Road to the Centra and even further, and as far as the lights at Donnybrook Fare on the Kilcoole Road. They forgot to show the queue up by Tesco from Church Road or the line of people trying to rat run up Church Lane.

And yet the WCC traffic planners decided that adjusting the traffic lights to remove the turn arrows would be enough to cope with the extra traffic, when anyone with a grain of sense can see it will make it worse.

Basically, the wide range of concerns expressed by the community have been trampled on by Bord Pleanala.

Eponymous

So judging from the attendance at the meeting (it looks like less than 100 concerned people showed up) are we to believe that what we're looking at here is a vocal minority?

Taltos

Or at a meeting that wasn't made all that public, I missed it personally.

Annasopra

Eponymous wrote: »

So judging from the attendance at the meeting (it looks like less than 100 concerned people showed up) are we to believe that what we're looking at here is a vocal minority?

I actually think thats a really large turnout

2011

Taltos wrote: »

Or at a meeting that wasn't made all that public, I missed it personally.

Or many opponents have given up

Annasopra

2011 wrote: »

Or many opponents have given up

Again I would have the opposite given previous meetings were smaller

loyatemu

how many turned up at the pro-McDonalds meeting?

Eponymous

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I actually think thats a really large turnout

In a town of over 14,000 people, less than 100 is not a "really large" turnout.

Even if only the parents of the precious little darlings who will be fattened by the presence of a McD's in their eyeline were to have attended, I would have expected a far greater attendance. My child goes to Lawrence's and we were all informed of the meeting.

That's not even factoring in the folks who live in the area and are just concerned about the traffic.

loyatemu

Eponymous wrote: »

Even if only the parents of the precious little darlings who will be fattened by the presence of a McD's in their eyeline were to have attended, I would have expected a far greater attendance.

Temple Carrig discussed it at their recent PTA meeting and are looking into the judicial review route (though only if there is a good possibility of success) - they're also discussing it with the other 2 schools so I would imagine most parents who are opposed would be supporting the schools' efforts.

2011

Eponymous wrote: »

In a town of over 14,000 people, less than 100 is not a "really large" turnout.

Even if only the parents of the precious little darlings who will be fattened by the presence of a McD's in their eyeline were to have attended, I would have expected a far greater attendance. My child goes to Lawrence's and we were all informed of the meeting.

That's not even factoring in the folks who live in the area and are just concerned about the traffic.

Anecdotally I would think that there is enormous opposition to McDonnalds being build at this location. A small turn out to a particular meeting does not prove otherwise.

I had heard about the meeting but even if work commitments had made attendance possible (I am working in France at the moment) I would not have attended. Why? Because I think that this ship has sailed. From what I hear a legal challenge would be too costly with only a slim chance of success.

Annasopra

Eponymous wrote: »

In a town of over 14,000 people, less than 100 is not a "really large" turnout.

Even if only the parents of the precious little darlings who will be fattened by the presence of a McD's in their eyeline were to have attended, I would have expected a far greater attendance. My child goes to Lawrence's and we were all informed of the meeting.

That's not even factoring in the folks who live in the area and are just concerned about the traffic.

Have you organised or even attended public meetings on planning or public matter issues before? I've organised a few public meetings and attended a good few before on different issues. In my experience this is a large turnout for such a meeting. I'm very surprised that people are claiming 100 people is a small turnout. It's really not in the context of many many other public meetings having had much smaller turnouts.

Wicklow Will

Would it be possible for the organisers of the various "anti-MacDs in this location" to communicate with each other and look to staging a joint-protest A) at the site and march? It might swell the numbers and let it be seen just how much opposition there is to a MacDs in this particular location. I think Greystones will rue the day that MacDs set their sights on it - even just from the litter angle. I've seen MacD rubbish (presumably from the Bray branch) ditched along Bohilla Lane, the Blacklion Rd and down at Farrankelly .... What'll it be like with one on our doorstep !?

Annasopra

Wicklow Will wrote: »

Would it be possible for the organisers of the various "anti-MacDs in this location" to communicate with each other and look to staging a joint-protest A) at the site and march? It might swell the numbers and let it be seen just how much opposition there is to a MacDs in this particular location. I think Greystones will rue the day that MacDs set their sights on it - even just from the litter angle. I've seen MacD rubbish (presumably from the Bray branch) ditched along Bohilla Lane, the Blacklion Rd and down at Farrankelly .... What'll it be like with one on our doorstep !?

The Bray one has to employ litter pickers for its surrounds as part of the planning conditions.

Harry Bosch

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Have you organised or even attended public meetings on planning or public matter issues before? I've organised a few public meetings and attended a good few before on different issues. In my experience this is a large turnout for such a meeting. I'm very surprised that people are claiming 100 people is a small turnout. It's really not in the context of many many other public meetings having had much smaller turnouts.

Joey makes a good point. Those who are active or stir themselves to go to a meeting are always the tip of the iceberg of opposition. They REPRESENT the opposition, they don't constitute it.

I recall the only public meeting I ever attended when the harbour proposal was going through the planning process. There were no more than 150 people down in the rugby club, and no more such meetings. Yet over 2,000 objections went in, all but a few from the locality. The numbers, if you assume that couples objected jointly, represented a majority of the adult population of Greystones at the time.

And resistance to the harbour continued for many years, as we know.

Anyhow, as another poster said, the parents' associations are heavily involved in opposing this also. Not so many parents were present, probably for all the usual parenty reasons which the childless don't get (yet), but those who were going to be reporting back to their association. Same for residents association reps who came along.

These connections link the open campaign group to a wide network of opponents of fast food joints at school gates. There already is a unity.

And there was an appeal to expand the committee at that meeting. Any of you who have expertise which would be useful in campaigning for the amended draft County Development Plan to be passed could volunteer, for example, and make yourselves useful that way. Or if it's protest or demo you fancy, I hear there are plans to protest outside Lidl against them giving the land for McDonald's, and also to hand out leaflets outside McDonald's in Bray.

The three front persons are Phil Moyles, Liz Dillon and Basil Miller. Their contact details are widely available and the group has no less than three Facebook pages on the go.

Annasopra

Harry Bosch wrote: »

Joey makes a good point. Those who are active or stir themselves to go to a meeting are always the tip of the iceberg of opposition. They REPRESENT the opposition, they don't constitute it.

I recall the only public meeting I ever attended when the harbour proposal was going through the planning process. There were no more than 150 people down in the rugby club, and no more such meetings. Yet over 2,000 objections went in, all but a few from the locality. The numbers, if you assume that couples objected jointly, represented a majority of the adult population of Greystones at the time.

And resistance to the harbour continued for many years, as we know.

Anyhow, as another poster said, the parents' associations are heavily involved in opposing this also. Not so many parents were present, probably for all the usual parenty reasons which the childless don't get (yet), but those who were going to be reporting back to their association. Same for residents association reps who came along.

These connections link the open campaign group to a wide network of opponents of fast food joints at school gates. There already is a unity.

And there was an appeal to expand the committee at that meeting. Any of you who have expertise which would be useful in campaigning for the amended draft County Development Plan to be passed could volunteer, for example, and make yourselves useful that way. Or if it's protest or demo you fancy, I hear there are plans to protest outside Lidl against them giving the land for McDonald's, and also to hand out leaflets outside McDonald's in Bray.

The three front persons are Phil Moyles, Liz Dillon and Basil Miller. Their contact details are widely available and the group has no less than three Facebook pages on the go.

Isnt it way too confusing with three different facebook pages? I mean I take the points you're making but perhaps communication to local supporters could be streamlined and improved a bit.

pixbyjohn

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

Isnt it way too confusing with three different facebook pages? I mean I take the points you're making but perhaps communication to local supporters could be streamlined and improved a bit.

It is a great way to turn people off having so many in your face posts on facebook and here on boards.

clocha_liatha

Maybe people have just become disillusioned or apathetic when it comes to public protest. In my own opinion people probably feel that their objections which were put forward already have been ruled out by an bord pleanala. As another poster has pointed out people who protested against the harbour development were loudly castigated as being anti jobs and had their heads stuck in the sand wanting to live in the past when what was on offer was going to be one of the best harbours in europe. Well its a long time coming and it will be a few more years yet. The developers to me seem to have been dragged screaming to make any simple landscaping effort. anyway thats for another thread i guess. As ive already said earlier in the thread , mcdonalds to greystones yes but not in current location, traffic and location to schools being my main concerns but mostly traffic, if you thnk evening rush hour traffic is bad now wait till Mcd's is built

recedite

Harry Bosch wrote: »

... Any of you who have expertise which would be useful in campaigning for the amended draft County Development Plan to be passed could volunteer, for example, and make yourselves useful that way...

Its already passed AFAIK, which Mc Donalds will be delighted with because..

The Objectors need to get with the program. All the stuff you mention could have been done 2 years ago, when there might have been some point to it.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

Its already passed AFAIK

No

Wicklow County Council members passed a proposal to have a no fry zone surrounding schools into the draft County Development Plan which will go out to public consultation.

recedite

So, just to be clear, the proposal to include the "no fry zone" was passed, and now it is included in the draft plan. When the draft plan becomes the plan, the no fry zone will be in it, unless they are forced to remove it.

Who is likely to object to the "no fry zone" during the consultation period? Burger King? I'm thinking they would need a helluva lot of influence to overturn it at this stage.
Not only McDonalds, but all the schools, and a large number of residents want the "no more fast food joints" clause retained.

Mitch Connor

clocha_liatha wrote: »

As ive already said earlier in the thread , mcdonalds to greystones yes but not in current location, traffic and location to schools being my main concerns but mostly traffic, if you thnk evening rush hour traffic is bad now wait till Mcd's is built

I would be absolutely shocked if McDs had a massive effect on traffic. the big problem with traffic will be caused by the schools at opening and closing time; I can't see anything going in up there (inc. McDs) having a significant effect - you won't have loads of people heading to mcdonalds at the same time; their entrance and exit times will be staggered.

From a traffic/business perspective, there isn't another location in Greystones that would suit, imo.

Putting it on the main street would be as much a traffic issue and with lack of parking in greystones which already sees the main street quite slow I don't see an option for putting mcds there. Script building is taken over already but would also be too far away from traffic flow and too isolated.

Charlesland stuggles to maintain the businesses already located there - and with schools to be built in that area and the kids playground being close, and all the kids that live in that area, you would have just as many people complaining that 'anywhere but charlesland' would be a better location.

Annasopra

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Charlesland stuggles to maintain the businesses already located there -

My understanding on that is not that there is lack of business there but the extortionate rents

Mitch Connor

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

My understanding on that is not that there is lack of business there but the extortionate rents

Have heard that too - you'd think they'd have come down in the years of being freaking empty!

I would have Charlesland as the best location for McDs in Greystones, if there was a large enough site for them. A large local population (greater than Redford and Rathdown I think) and on a main road for ease of access to them; better than the lidl location in that respect imo. Accessible, easily, for most of Greystones, and more accessible for Kilkoole as well.

At the same time though, a lot of kids around and a school to be built there, so I would assume it would get similar complaints from the people not happy with the current location.