Research - Mobile Apps Vs GPS Watches

trippyrez

Hi all,

I'm doing some research for work. I'm trying to get some information on GPS watches and what you can and can't do with them as against the mobile apps that are out there (e.g Endomondo).

So basically my question is this. Do these watches track individual runs and then collect them into a system (database)?

If I was to wear one for 6 weeks running 5ks at say 2 a week would I be able to see my personal best at the end of that period? And then if I was to up my training to 3 runs a week would I be able to see the new pb at the end of that 2nd 6 week period?

Sorry if it's a silly question but have no base knowledge of how they work.

Thanks

Krusty_Clown

Yes. Often the mobile apps and watches can upload to the same databases. Take a look at Garmin Connect or Strava for examples. The watches are generally better suited for the purpose than mobile apps, as they have more accurate GPS, better battery lives and are designed with running/exercise in mind (light, waterproof, portable, etc).

trippyrez

Thanks for that Krusty.

TR

28064212

Regardless of whether it's a watch or a phone, they are (conceptually-speaking at least) performing the same function. Every second (or other time-interval), it records your GPS position and the current time. At the end of the run, it saves all this information, so you have a file that says:

1. On 19/11/2014 at 14:00:00, your latitude was 53.3512415, longitude -6.2607788
2. On 19/11/2014 at 14:00:01, your latitude was 53.3512417, longitude -6.2607788
3. On 19/11/2014 at 14:00:02, your latitude was 53.3512419, longitude -6.2607788
4. ...

No matter what device you use, you will end up with that file. What Garmin, MapMyRun, Strava etc do is read those files, save them, compare them, overlay them on maps, and many other functions. But the file is the only important thing, and you can move or copy that from system to system.

A phone isn't inherently more or less accurate than a watch, there are good and bad examples of both.

trippyrez

OK so basically the apps/garmin etc are just intrepreting the data to produce the data in a format that they want according to UX design etc.

Thanks for that.

Krusty_Clown

28064212 wrote: »

A phone isn't inherently more or less accurate than a watch, there are good and bad examples of both.

I suppose I was using pretty broad strokes in my general response, but I would dispute (given the years of evidence posted on this forum) that a phone will generally speaking be any where as accurate as a GPS watch for the purposes of recording a track-log, while running.

Krusty_Clown

trippyrez wrote: »

OK so basically the apps/garmin etc are just intrepreting the data to produce the data in a format that they want according to UX design etc.

Thanks for that.

If you have a smart phone, the best thing to do is install an app that can record your activity, then upload it to a database, then you can retrieve the data from the database (typically in an xml format) and take a look. Strava is available (free) on both IOS and Android. So just install it, take it for a run/walk/cycle, upload to the site having logged in and created an account), and then retrieve the data from the site. Strava is convenient in that it allows you to retrieve every single datapoint collected over your entire running (exercise history). Garmin Connect will only allow you to retrieve a single activity at a time, while Strava will bundle up the lot, compress it and allow you to retrieve it.

By the way, the workouts (activities) are already interpreted on the watch/phone, so you get all of your distance, pace, elevation stats. They are re-interpreted when uploaded to these sites, so you can see minor differences in statistics.

28064212

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Garmin Connect will only allow you to retrieve a single activity at a time, while Strava will bundle up the lot, compress it and allow you to retrieve it.

Luckily, Garmin Connect allows connections from lots of services. I've turned on sync in both MapMyRun and Strava, so now, all I have to do when I get home is upload to Garmin Connect, and it appears in MMR and Strava within 30 seconds

sconhome

Couple of interesting things to add.

Accuracy differs across the different wrist units http://fellrnr.com/wiki/GPS_Accuracy and The Man did a comparative watches Vs phone apps that is a little old now http://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/06/2011-sport-device-gps-accuracy-in-depth.html but there was a recent article about the same thing.

Basically boils down to the GPS chip within the device.

Taking Polar (cos I know it better) the new V800 and the free phone app Polar Beat both upload directly to the same Polar Flow site so it may be interesting to compare those side by side, I'm happy to oblige and export the .tcx file if of use to you.

Krusty_Clown

28064212 wrote: »

Luckily, Garmin Connect allows connections from lots of services. I've turned on sync in both MapMyRun and Strava, so now, all I have to do when I get home is upload to Garmin Connect, and it appears in MMR and Strava within 30 seconds

I have done the same. I used to keep a copy in Garmin Training centre, until Garmin introduced Garmin Express (which no longer supported uploading to Training Centre). Now I'm just happy in the knowledge that I can pull my entire history from Strava in one foul swoop.

Peterx

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

I have done the same. I used to keep a copy in Garmin Training centre, until Garmin introduced Garmin Express (which no longer supported uploading to Training Centre). Now I'm just happy in the knowledge that I can pull my entire history from Strava in one foul swoop.

hardly that smelly?

Krusty_Clown

Peterx wrote: »

hardly that smelly?

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up...

trippyrez

Guys - some really interesting information here. Thanks all for your input. It's very much appreciated.

TR

Soarer

Sorry to bump this guys, but I'm looking to get some sort of GPS tracker/band/watch for the missus for Christmas. She probably runs about 15k per week, but never tracks anything. All she brings with her is her ipod! She has a Galaxy S4, but that's too ungainly to bring along.
Anyways, what would be the cheapest/handiest way to get her GPS'd? Do any of the Fitbit style bracelets have GPS?
I know about some of the Garmin Forerunners having the GPS, but she doesn't need a "watch" as such. Just something to do the basic tracking stuff (speed, distance, map of route) and sync to some app (MMR, Strava, etc.).

Thanks.

Krusty_Clown

Soarer wrote: »

Anyways, what would be the cheapest/handiest way to get her GPS'd? Do any of the Fitbit style bracelets have GPS?
I know about some of the Garmin Forerunners having the GPS, but she doesn't need a "watch" as such. Just something to do the basic tracking stuff (speed, distance, map of route) and sync to some app (MMR, Strava, etc.).

Thanks.

Nope, the activity trackers don't have GPS. Watch or phone app - those are the primary choices for GPS activity tracking. DC Rainmaker reviewed a few of the activity trackers (and budget watches) in his xmas roundup.

Soarer

Thanks Krusty.

Would've thought there was a market for a band with GPS. Like something that you could wear everyday for your basic stuff, and just leave on when you decide to go for a run.

Although, now that I think of it, it'd probably cause a load of arguments between couples. "You said you were in work! What were you doing down in Kinsale?".

Not personal experience btw!

RayCun

Soarer wrote: »

I know about some of the Garmin Forerunners having the GPS, but she doesn't need a "watch" as such. Just something to do the basic tracking stuff (speed, distance, map of route) and sync to some app (MMR, Strava, etc.).

Garmin Forerunner 10 - speed, distance, map, calorie count, and sync to app. Doesn't count your steps, does tell the time.

Soarer

Alright Krusty, I'm back to you again.

Will any sort of GPS device work as a route tracker type thing? Reason I ask is this yoke.
The description isn't great, but it does mention that it has GPS. The link to its Android App shows everything in Chinese which doesn't help! But maybe it could be synced to MMR or Strava or something?

sconhome

The problem with BTLE is that it is not standardised so not all BT devices speak to other BT devices. I'd say the only way this could be used as a tracker is via the dedicated app and if you can export the .tcx file from the app you could upload to Strava.

Interesting bit of kit though.

Krusty_Clown

Soarer wrote: »

Alright Krusty, I'm back to you again.

Will any sort of GPS device work as a route tracker type thing? Reason I ask is this yoke.
The description isn't great, but it does mention that it has GPS. The link to its Android App shows everything in Chinese which doesn't help! But maybe it could be synced to MMR or Strava or something?

Hi Soarer, I'm a little confused! The device you've linked above looks exactly like a watch, so why not just go down the 'watch' GPS route? She doesn't have to wear it as an every-day watch, just when she's working out. Same thing goes for your question about adding GPS functionality to an activity tracker - then it would essentially just be a GPS watch! I think what you're looking for is a GPS watch, but you don't want to pay GPS-watch prices.

As for the device you linked to, it sounds like an interesting device, but it communicates with a phone, so that's doesn't align with your original request. The description sounds a bit dubious too!

Conveniently locate the final position of goods or the departure address of loved ones.

Also, I'm not sure how it works, but it doesn't sound like it's going to do what you want it to do (specifically, track movement/activity using GPS).

tmh106

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Nope, the activity trackers don't have GPS. Watch or phone app - those are the primary choices for GPS activity tracking. DC Rainmaker reviewed a few of the activity trackers (and budget watches) in his xmas roundup.

The Fitbit Surge does have GPS. I don't use one, so have no experience of how accurate it is vs Garmin/Polar/etc.

ThisRegard

Don't think the Surge was released at the time of the thread.