Landlords to deduct Water Charges from Tenants Deposits

Muahahaha

The Water Charges debacle just took a new twist with the Minister responsible Alan Kelly announcing that-

1) If you own a property Irish Water will assume you are the occupier and therefore liable for the Water Charge
2) Landlords can apply to be exempt from the charge by handing over the name of the tenant to Irish Water (literally the Ministers words in the Dail)
3) If tenants do not pay then the landlord is entitled to deduct any monies owed from the tenants deposit

Number two above is what he said in the Dail and needs further clarification. My guess is that the Data Protection Commissioner will row his oar in here yet.

So we already have a deposit regime that is much in dispute between tenants and landlords with many landlords getting the reputation for with holding deposits and many tenants opting not to pay the last months rent to protect themselves from this.

The new Irish Water regime where the government seeks to turn the landlord into the tax collector of last resort is going to do nothing except exacerbate the situation even more IMO.

Wabbit Ears

Oh lordy, We really need better laws to protect us from these types of ministers

Gmaximum

Crazy to expect landlords to debt collect on behalf of the state.

The_Morrigan

Gmaximum wrote: »

Crazy to expect landlords to debt collect on behalf of the state.

erm....tenants of non resident landlords are expected to debt collect on behalf of the state.

snubbleste

Kelly said it will be in the new legislation.

It's not really new.
State expects tenants to retain 20% rent for non-resident landlords and hand it over to Revenue.

murphaph

Banana republic stuff. The housing crisis is bad enough without further incentives by government for landlords to exit the market altogether. What next? ESB and mobile phone bills to be landlord's ultimate responsibility.

Daith

So when a tenant gives notice, can a landlord just ring IW and find out if they've paid the bill?

Tar.Aldarion

More reasons for renters to not pay last months rent for landlords, just what they need

Grolschevik

I'm not entirely sure this has been thought though properly...

Wouldn't such a measure require the charge to be broken down monthly and bills issued accordingly?

But it's a flat charge for a few years, depending on the number of occupants. Will it be transferable like the TV license?
Potential hassle with house shares...

When it's metered, there will need to be bills more regularly than annually or quarterly, as tenant occupants come and go. So that landlords can check whether there are arrears based on the most recent bill.

Otherwise the collections department of IW will have to be huge.

Or am I missing something?

hfallada

What we need is what they do in Germany. There is no state body deposit protection scheme like some suggest is the solution for here. It obviously isnt considering how slow the PRTB is with dealing with disputes. In Germany you go to the bank with landlord and open a special bank account espically for deposits. Neither of you is allowed to take out the money without each others permission. The tenant gets to keep the interest on the money, so they get some benefits. Its good as the deposit is protected, but also since its a privately provided product its efficient. There is no cost to the tax payer.

This needs to be introduced here. I doubt it requires legalization and the tax payer is saved from having to pay for another semi-state body

Daith

Grolschevik wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure this has been thought though properly...

Wouldn't such a measure require the charge to be broken down monthly and bills issued accordingly?

But it's a flat charge for a few years, depending on the number of occupants. Will it be transferable like the TV license?
Potential hassle with house shares...

When it's metered, there will need to be bills more regularly than annually or quarterly, as tenant occupants come and go. So that landlords can check whether there are arrears based on the most recent bill.

Otherwise the collections department of IW will have to be huge.

Or am I missing something?

I don't know. It doesn't seem to be thought out with rented/shared accommodation.

Take the €100 grant. That won't happen till after the 3rd bill, sometime in Sept I guess. Do you have to be living in the same rented house for a year to avail of the grant?

Can Irish Water even issue a bill before the 1st April? What if tenants leave before then?

Big Davey

Something on the radio said if the tenant does not pay and there is no deposit to cover the bill (as often happens) it's up to the landlord to pay or there will be a judgement set against the property ! As if landlords did not have enough to pay and the non paying scumbag tenants did not get away with enough already what a mess this country is. The only solution is for landlords to get together and form a mob and intimidate the politicians as this seems to work.

Muahahaha wrote: »

The Water Charges debacle just took a new twist with the Minister responsible Alan Kelly announcing that-

1) If you own a property Irish Water will assume you are the occupier and therefore liable for the Water Charge
2) Landlords can apply to be exempt from the charge by handing over the name of the tenant to Irish Water (literally the Ministers words in the Dail)
3) If tenants do not pay then the landlord is entitled to deduct any monies owed from the tenants deposit

Number two above is what he said in the Dail and needs further clarification. My guess is that the Data Protection Commissioner will row his oar in here yet.

So we already have a deposit regime that is much in dispute between tenants and landlords with many landlords getting the reputation for with holding deposits and many tenants opting not to pay the last months rent to protect themselves from this.

The new Irish Water regime where the government seeks to turn the landlord into the tax collector of last resort is going to do nothing except exacerbate the situation even more IMO.

Gmaximum

The_Morrigan wrote: »

erm....tenants of non resident landlords are expected to debt collect on behalf of the state.

Erm...... its not income tax it's a utility charge.

Gmaximum

The_Morrigan wrote: »

erm....tenants of non resident landlords are expected to debt collect on behalf of the state.

Erm...... its not income tax it's a utility charge.

skydish79

What if landlords deduct the water charge but just pocket the money for themselves

handlemaster

skydish79 wrote: »

What if landlords deduct the water charge but just pocket the money for themselves

What if tenants just pay and not worry about landlord

Daith

handlemaster wrote: »

What if tenants just pay and not worry about landlord

If I paid my final bill it still could take a while for IW to take that money as a direct debit. In which case I wouldn't get my deposit back until then probably?

I guess for the moment I'll just pay IW at a post office and show him the receipt if I leave.

Big Davey

hfallada wrote: »

What we need is what they do in Germany. There is no state body deposit protection scheme like some suggest is the solution for here. It obviously isnt considering how slow the PRTB is with dealing with disputes. In Germany you go to the bank with landlord and open a special bank account espically for deposits. Neither of you is allowed to take out the money without each others permission. The tenant gets to keep the interest on the money, so they get some benefits. Its good as the deposit is protected, but also since its a privately provided product its efficient. There is no cost to the tax payer.

This needs to be introduced here. I doubt it requires legalization and the tax payer is saved from having to pay for another semi-state body

That makes far too much sence for it to be introduced here.

The_Conductor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

More reasons for renters to not pay last months rent for landlords, just what they need

More reason for landlords to demand in excess of a month's deposit from prospective tenants.........- just what they need.......

Its not pro-landlord- or anti-tenant- its the government making everyone's life a misery, without exception.

The_Morrigan

Gmaximum wrote: »

Erm...... its not income tax it's a utility charge.

Neither tax nor utility was mentioned in my post. I simply stated that tenants are expected to collect obo the state....what's the difference?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

If I was going to do a runner and use the deposit for the last months rent I now have the added incentive of saving 160 quid from the water bill. Seems a no brainer for dodgy tenants to be honest.

Daith

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Neither tax nor utility was mentioned in my post. I simply stated that tenants are expected to collect obo the state....what's the difference?

It should be between the occupier and the utility. Sure why not add on every other bill also?

There's also the issue of when IW can produce your final bill and the time in paying it. I know I've paid ESB bills for former apartments weeks into my new tenancy.

Barely There

Grolschevik wrote: »

I'm not entirely sure this has been thought though properly...

Hang on, you're not suggesting this Goverenment are making up policy as it goes along in a reactionary way to pander to the public mood.

Because I'd find that difficult to believe.

MouseTail

skydish79 wrote: »

What if landlords deduct the water charge but just pocket the money for themselves

A new tenancy cannot be registered with IE if arrears are outstanding, so what benefit have they from pocketing it?

murphaph

If this sees the light of day I won't be letting anything without a minimum 3 month deposit. Way too risky if a LL can be landed with a couple of years unpaid water bills. How can such poor legislation be made though? There are 3rd world countries that handle this stuff better, never mind the likes of Germany.

Daith

MouseTail wrote: »

A new tenancy cannot be registered with IE if arrears are outstanding, so what benefit have they from pocketing it?

So a tenant doesn't pay last months rent, does a runner and a landlord needs to pay IW to lease his place again? Sorry, a new tenant can't register with IW? Bloody hell.

Tar.Aldarion

The_Conductor wrote: »

More reason for landlords to demand in excess of a month's deposit from prospective tenants.........- just what they need.......

Its not pro-landlord- or anti-tenant- its the government making everyone's life a misery, without exception.

That is true.
On a side note I can see more protests over that haha.

DuckHook

What if the potential damage to the property has already eaten up the deposit, does the landlord then just has to essentially pay somebody else's water bill?

mountsky

Sit back,relax, it'll be grand,let the universe sort it out

The_Conductor

DuckHook wrote: »

What if the potential damage to the property has already eaten up the deposit, does the landlord then just has to essentially pay somebody else's water bill?

No- the presumption is the government has first dibs on the deposit- and whatever is left is there for the landlord to deduct damage etc from........ If its insufficient- the presumption is the landlord takes the hit.......

Its a recipe, alongside tenants not paying their last month's rent- for landlords to demand 2 or 3 month's rent as the deposit (as happens in most other places).

There is a lack of any thought gone into this.

MouseTail

Sensible thing to do is up the rent a bit, and let it inclusive of water charges.