Emigrant votes - Yay or Nay?

jimgoose

No-one should be voting here unless they are domiciled for tax purposes here. Bloody nonsense.

Deenie123

jimgoose wrote: »

No-one should be voting here unless they are domiciled for tax purposes here. Bloody nonsense.

You can be domiciled here without being tax resident

Doc

I think Yes but with a time living out of the country limitation.

If you are going on around the world trip and it takes 1/2 a year then you should be able to vote while you are away. If you are living for 2 years or more away from Ireland then you should lose the right to vote outside the country and not get it back again unless you have lived back in Ireland again continually for at least 1/2 a year.

Cyclingtourist

Nay.

osarusan

Emigrants are deserters?



FFS, how moronic.

Grayson

I have a few Israeli friends who left Israel. To remain a citizen they have to keep paying taxes back there. As long as they do, they have voting rights. I think the US have something similar.

munchkin_utd

Grayson wrote: »

I have a few Israeli friends who left Israel. To remain a citizen they have to keep paying taxes back there. As long as they do, they have voting rights. I think the US have something similar.

very few countries have such a thing, and even for the US you have to be very well off to be required to pay tax, $97,600 according to one source, and even then tax paid abroad is somehow taken into account anyhow.

I'd have no problem in Ireland implementing that, because to be honest if taxes paid abroad are taken into account, then very very few will ever owe tax to Ireland as taxes abroad are nearly always higher than Irelands magically low income taxation rates.

The_Captain

Which tax do you think gives you the right to vote in Ireland exactly?

Can't be income tax because then the unemployed shouldn't have voting rights.

Capital Gains Tax? Motor Tax? VAT?

Pumpkinseeds

So how much would this nonsense cost the country then? It's bullcrap and a totally unnecessary expense. Any Irish national who doesn't reside in this country shouldn't be entitled to vote and we should not be wasting money on this crap.

iba

anncoates wrote: »

Is everybody that emigrates from the country automatically a diplomat these days?

Don't be stupid!

Is it much different from people going home to vote in their home area despite living in different parts if the country?

I'd never dream of registering to vote in an area outside my home constituency. I always vote in my home area for the local politician who might get something done (like the road into our house which is badly needing repair). The fact I would see myself settling back there sooner or later means this is the area I want to be voting in. Is that any different if you are living abroad and planning to move home at some point so would like a voice for the future when you are there?

The biggest fear I would have about it is (like another poster mentioned) a large number of people were influenced to vote a certain way by moving away (voting for SF for instance).

iba

Kace Many Broom wrote: »

Is it much different from people going home to vote in their home area despite living in different parts if the country?

I'd never dream of registering to vote in an area outside my home constituency. I always vote in my home area for the local politician who might get something done (like the road into our house which is badly needing repair). The fact I would see myself settling back there sooner or later means this is the area I want to be voting in. Is that any different if you are living abroad and planning to move home at some point so would like a voice for the future when you are there?

The biggest fear I would have about it is (like another poster mentioned) a large number of people were influenced to vote a certain way by moving away (voting for SF for instance).

I am sorry but to me what you have written in your first two paras. is one of the root causes of all that is ill in Ireland; parish pump politics.

IMO this is not the job of a TD, who I believe should be concerned with the running of the country as a whole; Ireland Inc. The road going into your house should be a matter for your local council/county councillor.

It seems to me that all too often people vote for the person who says I will get that 'done' for you; whatever that 'done' maybe. I would also say that this seems to be endemic outside of the bigger cities.

This whole 'what's in it for me if I vote for you' attitude rather than what is good for the country as a whole, is not a very good ideology.

Totally agree 100% with your last para. though.

Regards

Galwayguy35

irishmover wrote: »

Because the government which has been decided by the people actually living in Ireland has been running the country any better??

Silly argument, do you think people who don't even live here would elect someone different?

Sure go ahead and elect Murphy, Wallace and Coppinger and see what they do.

Wompa1

iba wrote: »

I am sorry but to me what you have written in your first two paras. is one of the root causes of all that is ill in Ireland; parish pump politics.

IMO this is not the job of a TD, who I believe should be concerned with the running of the country as a whole; Ireland Inc. The road going into your house should be a matter for your local council/county councillor.

It seems to me that all too often people vote for the person who says I will get that 'done' for you; whatever that 'done' maybe. I would also say that this seems to be endemic outside of the bigger cities.

This whole 'what's in it for me if I vote for you' attitude rather than what is good for the country as a whole, is not a very good ideology.

Totally agree 100% with your last para. though.

Regards

I think that voting for what can be done for you as an individual is how it works for most people though. It's the same in the States where I am. I worked with people that considered themselves liberal who voted to Mitt Romney in the last election because they worked in healthcare and thought the Medicaid was the devil...they though it would cost them there job. So rather than vote for the greater good, they voted for themselves.

If anybody lived in Ireland for 20+ years, I wouldn't be worried about them voting for SF. I wouldn't say that people away from Ireland are any less informed than those in Ireland. The world is a much smaller place now

iba

iba wrote: »

I am sorry but to me what you have written in your first two paras. is one of the root causes of all that is ill in Ireland; parish pump politics.

IMO this is not the job of a TD, who I believe should be concerned with the running of the country as a whole; Ireland Inc. The road going into your house should be a matter for your local council/county councillor.

It seems to me that all too often people vote for the person who says I will get that 'done' for you; whatever that 'done' maybe. I would also say that this seems to be endemic outside of the bigger cities.

This whole 'what's in it for me if I vote for you' attitude rather than what is good for the country as a whole, is not a very good ideology.

I sort of had council elections in mind as they were the most recent and the question in the poll wasn't distinguishing between the different elections.

Regardless though why would people not vote for the person who gets things done for them, be they a Councillor or TD. If a person has a good chance of getting something I want done in the area then that's an excellent reason to vote for them.

iba

Kace Many Broom wrote: »

I sort of had council elections in mind as they were the most recent and the question in the poll wasn't distinguishing between the different elections.

Regardless though why would people not vote for the person who gets things done for them, be they a Councillor or TD. If a person has a good chance of getting something I want done in the area then that's an excellent reason to vote for them.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and I respect yours.

Personally I look at a much bigger picture/broader picture. For example, what is the TD's views on healthcare, taxation, EU, public transport, education, technology, natural resources, environment, employment/job creation, justice, equality, foreign affairs, social welfare, asylum seekers, immigration,tourism etc etc

Personally I vote for what I believe is good for the country and not what is good for me as an individual.


Regards

Laura Palmer

People who refer to those who emigrated due to difficulty finding work (instead of just going on the dole) as "deserters" strike me as the same people who'd complain about people being on the dole long-term (no matter how genuinely they need to be).

Deenie123

Laura Palmer wrote: »

People who refer to those who emigrated due to difficulty finding work (instead of just going on the dole) as "deserters" strike me as the same people who'd complain about people being on the dole long-term (no matter how genuinely they need to be).

I'd rather people leave and find work elsewhere than stay (oh sorry, they're just refusing to desert us :rolleyes: ) and bleed the country dry on the dole...

I think people who are recent emigrants who are remitting income to Ireland and still have family ties here and who want to return as soon as economic conditions permit it actually have more of a right to representation in Ireland than the long-term unemployed (and to clarify, by long-term unemployed I'm referring to the "won't work" category who were unemployed even when massive immigration couldn't meet the jobs supply).

The_Captain

Considering we were at about 4% unemployment in the boom years, where have these mythical "won't-work" long term unemployed come from?

Deenie123

The_Captain wrote: »

Considering we were at about 4% unemployment in the boom years, where have these mythical "won't-work" long term unemployed come from?

4% unemployed when jobs were plentiful. Think about it. That's about 16,000 people who could work but didn't. We're now down to about 12% unemployment (from just over 17% at the worst). Of that 12%, a third of them probably have no intention of ever working. They're the residual 4% unemployed who have never worked, come from families who don't work, and who honestly, won't work.

I'd see an adult who hits their mid 30s never having worked for more than a week or two at a go as having no right to decide how the money raised through taxation - taken from people who WORK and generate that money - gets spent. On the other hand, someone who's worked every day of their life until the crash hit, then left the country to continue working and sending home money to support family at home, has every right to some level of representation.

jank

The me-fenism displayed here is actually interesting. Despite the fact that many emigrants pay tax in the form of property tax, CGT, CAT and DIRT this would not be enough to satisfy the me-feniers, despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of Irish people pay no income tax at all or that even more people are a net drain on the Irish exchequer.

This me-fenism is a national trait which manifests itself from the top to the bottom of Irish society. From TD's expenses, to union bosses 6 figure salaries, to protected sectors like Public Servants, GP's, Teachers, Lawyers, Bankers, to OAP's and their free perks no matter what their actual means. To welfare recipients who contribute nothing but expect certain lifestyle on the tab, even to the middle class where new cars and big TV's are more important than your child's up bringing.

Everytime I come home to Ireland, I am always struck by the amount of new cars and luxury items on display. The pubs are always packed, the restaurants are always full yet if one listens to the radio you would swear that real real poverty exists in Ireland, like real as in African poverty.

The first thing I noticed in NZ are that most of the cars are banged up and second hand. It is not that people were poor in NZ, just that they have a different mindset than Irish people. Irish people are status obsessed and will spend money on crap they don't need more than any other nation I have visited on earth. I worked with a Managing Director of a fortune 500 IT company in NZ who was probably earning in excess of $200,000 pa, yet he drove a clapped up Subaru Legacy and lived a modest life as do the vast majority of Kiwi's. If it were Ireland, it would have been a E-class Merc. Remember what the German ambassador said about Ireland back in the heyday of the Celtic Tiger?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reprimand-for-german-envoy-over-his-coarse-irish-speech-26318339.html

We all gave out mad about yet, he was dead right about all of it.

The IW debate and the last budget is proof of this. Irish fiscal council totally ignored, tax cuts for all yet, we still complain. Irish people think they are socialist and put Sweden and Finland up on a pedestal, yet when it comes to frugality, work ethic and conservative fiscal policy that are deep traits of the Germanic and Scandinavian nations well, **** that, I want my money now! We are much more individualistic than we think like the Americans or even Australian/NZ. However, the key difference is that the USA/Australia have a culture of doing it for yourself. Working hard, paying your own way without expectations that others are going to do the heavy lifting. Be one or the other, don't pretend to be one and actually be the other. You are only codding yourself, like a child among adults.

So what does this have to do with voting from abroad? Well previously as I said, there is a deep me-fenism in Ireland that many will not admit to and seeing as Ireland is the only EU country (and OECD afaik) that does not allow voting from abroad (along with paying for metered water ironically) this is another illustration of that national trait, me-fenism.
So, yea next time when someone mentions 'They should pay tax first!!' what you are really saying is that you don't want to give someone else a vote that you currently have as you do not want to 'share' it out. At least man up about it. People will respect you more.

jaja321

Probably yes for presidential, and no for referenda and general elections... and I say this as someone who previously emigrated from Ireland for 7 years. Maybe if there was a time limit on it, say of 2 years or something, but I think for a lot of people the longer you're away the less you understand fully about what's really happening at home.

Galwayguy35

jank wrote: »

The me-fenism displayed here is actually interesting. Despite the fact that many emigrants pay tax in the form of property tax, CGT, CAT and DIRT this would not be enough to satisfy the me-feniers, despite the fact that hundreds of thousands of Irish people pay no income tax at all or that even more people are a net drain on the Irish exchequer.

This me-fenism is a national trait which manifests itself from the top to the bottom of Irish society. From TD's expenses, to union bosses 6 figure salaries, to protected sectors like Public Servants, GP's, Teachers, Lawyers, Bankers, to OAP's and their free perks no matter what their actual means. To welfare recipients who contribute nothing but expect certain lifestyle on the tab, even to the middle class where new cars and big TV's are more important than your child's up bringing.

Everytime I come home to Ireland, I am always struck but the amount of new cars and luxury items on display. The pubs are always packed, the restaurants are always full yet if one listens to the radio you would swear that real poverty exists in Ireland, like real as in African poverty.

The first thing I noticed in NZ are that most of the cars are banged up and second hand. It is not that people were poor in NZ, just that they have a different mindset than Irish people. Irish people are status obsessed and will spend money on crap they don't needs more than any other nation I have visited on earth. I worked with a Managing Director of a fortune 500 IT company who was probably earning in excess of $200,000 pa, yet he drove a clapped up Subaru Legacy and lived a modest live as do the vast majority of Kiwi's. If it were Ireland, it would have been a E-class Merc. Remember what the German ambassador said about Ireland back in the heyday of the Celtic Tiger?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/reprimand-for-german-envoy-over-his-coarse-irish-speech-26318339.html

We all gave out mad about yet, he was dead right about all of it.

The IW debate and the last budget is proof of this. Irish fiscal council totally ignored, tax cuts for all yet, we still complain. Irish people think they are socialist and put Sweden and Finland up on a pedestal, yet when it comes to frugality, work ethic and conservative fiscal policy that are deep traits of the Germanic and Scandinavian nations well, **** that, I want my money now! We are much more individualistic than we think like the Americans or even Australian/NZ. However, the key difference is that the USA/Australia have a culture of doing it for yourself. Working hard, paying your own way without expectations that others are going to do the heavy lifting. Be one or the other, don't pretend to be one and actually be the other. You are only codding yourself, like a child among adults.

So what does this have to do with voting from abroad? Well previously as I said, there is a deep me-fenism in Ireland that many will not admit to and seeing as Ireland is the only EU country (and OECD afaik) that does not allow voting from abroad (along with paying for metered water ironically) this is another illustration of that national trait, me-fenism.
So, yea next time when someone mentions 'They should pay tax first!!' what you are really saying is that you don't want to give someone else a vote that you currently have as you do not want to 'share' it out. At least man up about it. People will respect you more.

You're just the kind of person I have in mind when I say it's a bad idea to let people abroad have the vote.

jank

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

You're just the kind of person I have in mind when I say it's a bad idea to let people abroad have the vote.

Cool Story, bro.

Care to extrapolate your post?

Laura Palmer

I despair at the abdication of personal responsibility that can be quite prevalent here too - but the Irish Water debacle is justified in some ways; an almighty screw-up. My father who worked as a water engineering guy (that was his official title ) and hardly someone who'd balk at payment towards improved water services (which are needed) would concede that.

AngryHippie

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The problem I have with emigrants....

are many, varied, uninformed and substantially unwarranted. Do you think that everyone that didn't emigrate did it because of their patriotism and a desire to pay for the criminal follies of bankers and financial speculations of a swathe of would-be property tycoons ?
How dare you insinuate they deserted anything or anyone. You have no clue as to what some of them go through in order to try and make a life for themselves.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I would be against giving work to emigrants who left this country ahead of those who stayed.

But the reality of the situation is that many of those emigrants will be returning with priceless practical experience in their chosen fields of work that those who stayed behind may not have.
Private enterprise will always strive for the best value candidates and those with ten years experience all over the globe will usually present better value than those with less or little, patriotism will not come into it, except of course for your own employees;

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But that is OT. They should not have a vote in general elections, end of.

I still don't agree with you and never will on this topic. I think for anyone with an intention of returning and resuming a life in Ireland, they should be entitled to have a voice for their opinions, even if it is limited to a single seat/constituency and for the presidential elections. Most people with no intention of returning won't have any motivation to cast a vote in any case, particularly if it involves a trip to a consulate and lining up to have your very limited say. It is the democratic principle behind it that makes this necessary. Particularly where the individuals concerned aren't entitled to any democratic process in their host country, they are entirely disenfranchised and unrepresented, as a treatment of citizens, I don't believe this is acceptable

AngryHippie

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

So how much would this nonsense cost the country then? It's bullcrap and a totally unnecessary expense. Any Irish national who doesn't reside in this country shouldn't be entitled to vote and we should not be wasting money on this crap.

It'll cost less than the hair-brained water metering scheme your current "elected officials" have gotten you stuck in.:rolleyes:

Pumpkinseeds

AngryHippie wrote: »

It'll cost less than the hair-brained water metering scheme your current "elected officials" have gotten you stuck in.:rolleyes:

Exactly how familliar with electoral candidates will emigrants be, given that they won't be resident in this country? For the love of God, I really wish people would just shut the fcuk up about water metering, it's as if there is nothing else happening in the world.

jank

jank wrote: »

I worked with a Managing Director of a fortune 500 IT company in NZ who was probably earning in excess of $200,000 pa, yet he drove a clapped up Subaru Legacy and lived a modest life

Tight as a ducks arse is how I would describe him.

jank

Kace Many Broom wrote: »

Tight as a ducks arse is how I would describe him.

Well, that is my point proven.

Laura Palmer

jank wrote: »

Well, that is my point proven.

What point is proven by one comment from one person though?

I agree with you about the mé-féinism. I don't think it's an exclusively Irish trait, but I do see it here a bit - everyone for themselves kinda thing. No matter what Thatcher said, there IS such thing as society. No matter how individualistic a person is, they still depend on others to some extent, we are still intertwined with others (e.g. we rely on others for our education, income, food, when we get ill) and I really object to when there is a lack of recognition of this.
But I don't understand why a person would be really tight with money when they have it; that doesn't mean I think they should be living a really flash lifestyle either though.

jank

Well, why is someone 'tight' if they have the means to have a a new car but happy out to have a second hand car that serves their purpose? Thats my point, Irish people have totally lost their respect for money yet wonder why they are 'working poor'.

In Ireland, people buy new cars all the time, even though they may not even be able to afford it. There are record sales at the moment. http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/surge-in-car-sales-drives-4200-new-jobs-in-irish-auto-sector-30553598.html

yet people can't take or give any more....

Wompa1

jank wrote: »

Well, why is someone 'tight' if they have the means to have a a new car but happy out to have a second hand car that serves their purpose? Thats my point, Irish people have totally lost their respect for money yet wonder why they are 'working poor'.

In Ireland, people buy new cars all the time, even though they may not even be able to afford it. There are record sales at the moment. http://www.independent.ie/life/motoring/car-news/surge-in-car-sales-drives-4200-new-jobs-in-irish-auto-sector-30553598.html

yet people can't take or give any more....

My sister works for a financing company. Some stories! Never naming, names though

Jamsiek

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The problem I have with emigrants is the people that are getting this country back on it's feet stayed to face the music. Now the economy is on the up again the first in the door will be the deserters to stake a claim.

I would be against giving work to emigrants who left this country ahead of those who stayed.

But that is OT. They should not have a vote in general elections, end of.

Do you prefer if everyone stayed on the dole then?

Kermit.de.frog

Plenty of people who have stayed during the recession, myself included, have jobs, have got good jobs in the intervening period or started their own businesses. Recessions are great because they have this habit of exposing the more feckless amongst us really well. Anyone sitting on the dole for 5 years straight (the length of the downturn) has no leg to stand on with me. The recession excuse does not wash. Get up, get out and just do something for yourself instead of moping around blaming everyone else and not getting on with your life.


"oh the recession" - the people on the dole through the boom use that excuse as well. I don't buy it and I don't believe most do either. If someone comes to me with some logic and reason and says "I have been unemployed 9 months due to the recession" - fair enough. But if they say I have been unemployed for 5 years and moan about the recession as some excuse I call that what it is. No excuse for that.

Wompa1

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Plenty of people who have stayed during the recession, myself included, have jobs, have got good jobs in the intervening period or started their own businesses. Recessions are great because they have this habit of exposing the more feckless amongst us really well. Anyone sitting on the dole for 5 years straight (the length of the downturn) has no leg to stand on with me. The recession excuse does not wash. Get up, get out and just do something for yourself instead of moping around blaming everyone else and not getting on with your life.


"oh the recession" - the people on the dole through the boom use that excuse as well. I don't buy it and I don't believe most do either. If someone comes to me with some logic and reason and says "I have been unemployed 9 months due to the recession" - fair enough. But if they say I have been unemployed for 5 years and moan about the recession as some excuse I call that what it is. No excuse for that.

bit of an extreme there but I agree mostly with the sentiment. I did great for myself during the recession. And I have seen it 'trim the fat' in some cases.

Kermit.de.frog

Wompa1 wrote: »

bit of an extreme there but I agree mostly with the sentiment. I did great for myself during the recession. And I have seen it 'trim the fat' in some cases.

I don't think it is extreme for those that were on the dole when there were too many jobs.

The recession was very convenient for them. I know that comes up in front of the JA officer or whatever they are collecting as a very convenient excuse. Of course those people have lost practically nothing in the recession.

They should be held to account, be called in and given an ultimatum - get off your ass within a certain period of time or get off the dole.

People talk about the banks etc draining our money. These leeches do it as well. Neither should be let a way with it because it is our money at the end of the day. Whether working class or business class stop thieving from taxpayers.

Rabies

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Should deserters emigrants

I stopped reading your post right there.

Idiot.


As a "deserter" *sigh*, of course I don't need voting rights in Ireland. I don't live there. If I move back, then yes, I'd like a say in how the country is run

Deenie123

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I don't think it is extreme for those that were on the dole when there were too many jobs.

The recession was very convenient for them. I know that comes up in front of the JA officer or whatever they are collecting as a very convenient excuse. Of course those people have lost practically nothing in the recession.

They should be held to account, be called in and given an ultimatum - get off your ass within a certain period of time or get off the dole.

People talk about the banks etc draining our money. These leeches do it as well. Neither should be let a way with it because it is our money at the end of the day. Whether working class or business class stop thieving from taxpayers.

You seem to be missing the bit where people emigrated to avoid being stuck on the dole...

Laura Palmer

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Plenty of people who have stayed during the recession, myself included, have jobs, have got good jobs in the intervening period or started their own businesses. Recessions are great because they have this habit of exposing the more feckless amongst us really well. Anyone sitting on the dole for 5 years straight (the length of the downturn) has no leg to stand on with me. The recession excuse does not wash. Get up, get out and just do something for yourself instead of moping around blaming everyone else and not getting on with your life.

Except don't emigrate to find work, because then you'd be a "deserter".
Recessions aren't great, no.
What relevance are those people who always had a job during the recession (myself included)? It's people who actually lost their jobs or left college to a lack of jobs who this is of relevance to.

"oh the recession" - the people on the dole through the boom use that excuse as well.

How could they use the recession as an excuse during the boom?

shruikan2553

Considering how the unemployment rate more than doubled during the recession I have my doubts that all of them were looking for excuses not to work.

Suppose logic doesnt allow some people to feel like they are brilliant as the single handedly rebuild the economy so they have to make up some fantasies.

eire4

Incredible arrogance and display of hypocrisy from Enda Kenny this week saying the governmnet would be sending ministers over to Britain to tell the Irish living there to vote to stay in the EU yet at the same time of course it is his government which continues to turn away calls for Irish born citizens living abroad the right to vote in Irish elections.

luftmensch

eire4 wrote: »

Incredible arrogance and display of hypocrisy from Enda Kenny this week saying the governmnet would be sending ministers over to Britain to tell the Irish living there to vote to stay in the EU yet at the same time of course it is his government which continues to turn away calls for Irish born citizens living abroad the right to vote in Irish elections.

Not the same thing.

mikeym

Nay.

They can fly home or get the ferry just like the good people that voted yes last year.

eire4

luftmensch wrote: »

Not the same thing.

It is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy to be telling Irish citizens living in Britain how to vote so it suits the current Irish governments wishes yet at the same time blocking those Irish born citizens living in Britain from voting in Irish elections.

K-9

No taxation, no representation or something like that.

Kenny should stay out of it too.

eire4

K-9 wrote: »

No taxation, no representation or something like that.

Kenny should stay out of it too.

Ahh so the poor,sick, diasabled who physically cannot work etc shouldn't be allowed vote either. How about those who get back more in benefits from the governmnet then they pay in tax should they be denied the vote also?


I will agree with you on Kenny though. It is the height of arrogance and hypocrisy for him to be telling Irish born citizens living in Britain how to vote with one hand and then blocking Irish born citizens living abroad from voting with the other.

K-9

Ah, that's why I put in something! Seriously, obviously the disabled etc. would be included, they pay VAT and stuff!

I'm undecided on N.I., maybe votes on Presidential elections but General and Local elections, I'd be more on the you have to live here side of it.

dd972

The Swiss and other countries have this so why shouldn't we, in one respect it'll address the attitude that emigrants and their offspring are not 'one of us' anymore that stems from needing to feel a smug entitlement and exclusivity about being 'authentically Irish', whatever that is.

The w@nkbag in this article is not only woefully ignorant of our history but probably jerks off over James Connolly

http://irishpost.co.uk/easter-rising-relative-told-go-home-centenary-event-british-accent/

Shenshen

K-9 wrote: »

Ah, that's why I put in something! Seriously, obviously the disabled etc. would be included, they pay VAT and stuff!

I'm undecided on N.I., maybe votes on Presidential elections but General and Local elections, I'd be more on the you have to live here side of it.

What about the non-Irish living and working here? They pay taxes, after all?