Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Please note that it is not permitted to have referral links posted in your signature. Keep these links contained in the appropriate forum. Thank you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2055940817/signature-rules
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

What I think kills cars?

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    Akrasia wrote: »
    Robots can make cars cheaper and better than people. robots make our cars now. there are some new technologies that are still working out some kinks but while we romanticise old cars, its easy to forget how dirty the air was back when there was leaded petrol and diesels burnt more oil then diesel.

    The reliability issues of new cars are offset by their better economy. a 1000 repair bill is horrible if you forget you're spending half as much on petrol.

    We still need to demand perfection and reward improved technology to drive everyone forward. Tesla is the supreme example of this.
    Robots don't make cars better than people as a whole. Only in general production lines they do, but ultimately people are better, which is why the best cars in the world are hand-built.
    Also reliability issues are not offset by better economy. As I said earlier, 90's and early 00's are the best. Take a 1998 Passat 1.9 TDi for example. You could easily find one out there with over 200k miles on it and nothing replaced so far. Take a 2008 2.0 TDi one and see how many times the injectors/DPF/DMF had to be worked on. The difference between both in terms of economy is probably 2 or 3 mpg in the real world, if even that. Any singular job is enough to wipe out 10,000 miles or more in fuel savings.
    Claimed mpg figures are going up but real world driving shows that there are actually almost no differences between most cars, some cases might yeild 6 or 7 mpg.
    BMW have efficient petrol engines, but how many miles do you need to drive to offset the cost of injectors and coil packs, and that's assuming you don't have to do the fuel pump, as is frequently the case in the modern petrols.
    That and the sensors throwing up errors that lead mechanics on wild goose chases. And everything these days is a "module" rather than a part, meaning the replacement is expensive.
    Hard to beat something like a 2004 Honda Accord 2 litre petrol for as modern as you'll get with the best of reliability and reasonable repair costs.
    European stuff these days are all bowing to the pressure of EU regulations, and reliabilty is going out the window. Also globilisation which causes the stock watchers at the top to force the managers below them to outsource everything to the cheapest bidder is a problem in itself.


  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    Robots don't make cars better than people as a whole. Only in general production lines they do, but ultimately people are better, which is why the best cars in the world are hand-built.
    Also reliability issues are not offset by better economy. As I said earlier, 90's and early 00's are the best. Take a 1998 Passat 1.9 TDi for example. You could easily find one out there with over 200k miles on it and nothing replaced so far. Take a 2008 2.0 TDi one and see how many times the injectors/DPF/DMF had to be worked on. The difference between both in terms of economy is probably 2 or 3 mpg in the real world, if even that. Any singular job is enough to wipe out 10,000 miles or more in fuel savings.
    Claimed mpg figures are going up but real world driving shows that there are actually almost no differences between most cars, some cases might yeild 6 or 7 mpg.

    This is mostly caused by EU regulations though. If they weren't forcing stupid emissions regulations on manufacturers they wouldn't have to be adding things to engine to force down emissions as these are mostly the things giving trouble.

    I'm sure VW would happily be selling stuff with that ultra reliable 1.9TDI engine for the 90's were it not for their hand being forced.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Tea 1000


    This is mostly caused by EU regulations though. If they weren't forcing stupid emissions regulations on manufacturers they wouldn't have to be adding things to engine to force down emissions as these are mostly the things giving trouble.

    I'm sure VW would happily be selling stuff with that ultra reliable 1.9TDI engine for the 90's were it not for their hand being forced.
    I agree, but reducing manufacturing costs has played a big part also, so the two combined leaves us with todays stuff.


  • Posts: 24,714 [Deleted User]


    Tea 1000 wrote: »
    I agree, but reducing manufacturing costs has played a big part also, so the two combined leaves us with todays stuff.

    Cars are still for the most part very reliable. Its lack of maintenance or incorrect use (as far as diesels are concerned) that is causing a the majority of problems.

    I think the unreliability of cars gets exaggerated because its always the people with the problems we read about on this and other forums etc. Whereas in reality that's only a very small fraction of the overall number of a particular car on the road.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,499 ✭✭✭porsche959


    goz83 wrote: »
    No. It's the year on the plate that kills them in Ireland. People are already planning to get their 151 D economy sh1t box of paddy spec in January.

    Tbh, that's hyperbolic at best. Annual car sales are 80k or so. That is a mere 4% of cars registered. So, give or take, to use an admittedly crude average, only around one in twenty of Irish motorists will buy a new car next year.

    Annual car sales per head of population are actually much lower than, say, the UK, Germany, Switzerland, etc. (They briefly were higher during the unsustainable bubble period of 2000-2007.)

    The 'paddy-spec' meme is also greatly exaggerated. I have seen no particular evidence that new car buyers in this country go for cheapest spec more than in any other country, except that, understandably, most people avoid the high tax brackets. (and even on that point, people who suffer from the delusion that the Irish motorist is uniquely disadvantaged might want to check out the rates in, say, Belgium).

    But in any case a 'paddy-spec' 151 D econobox is more reliable, more fuel efficient, and better put together than a top of the range luxury car with all the options from the 1980s or 1990s (and I personally have never bought a new car in my life, and don't intend doing so).


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,639 ✭✭✭Zoney


    Andrewf20 wrote: »
    Recent issue: We have an old 95 Mazda 323, probably worth 300 euro if we were to sell it. It currently wont start and is stuck in a garage. I rang mazda to price a distributor - have a guess at the price - 830eu + VAT. Crazy. Unless I can get half decent looking & cheap parts in the breakers yards, the car will probably have to go for good, sadly.

    I also have a 96D motor and in general would be an advocate of keeping an old car going. The amount of nightmare bills ive heard about on more modern machinery is frightening.

    Well, that's still only equivalent to 4 or 5 monthly payments on a new car (or even 1-2 year old), that's after a sizeable deposit and possibly even a payment at the end (all depending on the car). Been weighing up options/wishes here this last while and I'm a lot happier now about spending on the current car - the odd couple of hundred is put in context.

    In your case of course maybe that specific car will just need more and more done from now on, I don't know. Of course if you replace it and only step ahead 10 years or less in car age, you might still end up having to put just as much money in unless you're very sure just what you're getting and in what condition under the hood.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Spending money regularly is what gets people, be it fuel, tax, servicing, tyres. Depreciation is only realised when you sell the car. It shouldn't affect the running of a car when in your ownership.
    Marcusm wrote: »
    An interesting philiosophy; the alternative approach would be to recognise that as soon as the cash goes out the door, most of it will never come back so you should look after the asset as you are already committed to the depreciation.

    MuppetCheck is correct. In accounting and tax terms you cannot realise depreciation until you know what it actually is.

    I spent a bit under €2,500 on my car recently, it cost €700 to tax and another €2,300 to make it mechanically sound.

    I could have gone out, spent €4k on the next cheapest one with 6 months tax and ended up in a hard shoulder with a snapped timing belt and a blown turbo. Buying muck and working it into silver is far more worthwhile if you're not afraid of it.

    There is nothing to fear but fear itself.

    Fear kills old cars


  • Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cars are still for the most part very reliable. Its lack of maintenance or incorrect use (as far as diesels are concerned) that is causing a the majority of problems.

    I think the unreliability of cars gets exaggerated because its always the people with the problems we read about on this and other forums etc. Whereas in reality that's only a very small fraction of the overall number of a particular car on the road.

    This is true. No forums are posting how reliable my car is. Also many myths exist. W203 Benz is a good example. In 2001/2 there was some problems and this is expanded by people with no knowing to all years. In fact there really were no electric problems with this models, what there was is an oil leaking at about 50k from cam magnets sensor that went into loom and caused electric problems. Easy fixed in 2003 with short isolating cable between loom and magnets sensor. Bad mistake from benz but fixed with recall. With this fix they made very reliable car.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,492 ✭✭✭✭Marcusm


    ninty9er wrote: »
    MuppetCheck is correct. In accounting and tax terms you cannot realise depreciation until you know what it actually is.

    Seeing as you have brought accounting and tax into it, actually depreciation is a non cash cost and is never realised per se. It is recognised for accounting and tax purposes over the life of the asset and certainly not at the end. If you idn't depreciate then you would realise a loss on sale but the cash realisation of that depreciation is on day 1 when you pay for it.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Jim Murphy 69


    porsche959 wrote: »

    But in any case a 'paddy-spec' 151 D econobox is more reliable, more fuel efficient, and better put together than a top of the range luxury car with all the options from the 1980s or 1990s (and I personally have never bought a new car in my life, and don't intend doing so).

    Are you seriously suggesting to me that a "paddy spec" 151 D econobox is going to be more reliable and better built than the first generation Lexus LS400 (1UZ-FE)?

    Toyota spent $1.5 billion in the late 80's trying to build a car that would rival the best in the world and I think they did a pretty fine job. A previous Lexus salesman told me one of his sales pitches was to rev the engine from idle with a cigarette lighter standing on the engine and no matter how high the RPM, it would still not fall over! Try doing that do a 3 cylinder Aygo?

    If I remember from my motorsport days the only naturally balanced engine configuration is a straight 6 or a V-12. How Lexus managed to get a V8 so dynamically balanced was an engineering marvel. That is one of the reasons why these cars can be seen today with biblical mileage (500,000 miles plus)!

    Naturally newer cars have become more efficient due to greater research and development in the area however that has come at a huge cost to vehicle longevity and reliability. To write that a modern small car such as an Aygo is better put together and more reliable than an LS400 from 20 years ago is almost embarrassing to read!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭Sobanek




  • Registered Users Posts: 536 ✭✭✭Ninap


    Depreciation can't kill old cars; the longer a car lasts, the less the depreciation is. Repair costs and tax are the main factors. Would be interesting to see how long cars would last if car tax was in any way rational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    Ninap wrote: »
    Would be interesting to see how long cars would last if car tax was in any way rational.
    Just go to any civilised country, where there is no motor tax separately charged or is included in fuel price or where people are not so bothered about this. You will see a lot of older, good cars that would have been scrapped here long time ago, and way before the technical death of the car.

    A normally serviced car will last as long as the chassis stays sound.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Sobanek wrote: »
    My grandmother used to own a "bucket of crap" and it has been at the mechanic's +/- 3 times over a 21 year period.

    I owned a "modern" that I was warned upon buying was going to break my heart. Put 140K miles (not km miles) on it and outside of a timing belt and water pump it never saw a mechanic. BUT I changed the oil and filter every 6k miles.

    Only problem it ever gave me was when he bearing seized in the alternator and the pully came off. Got me home and cost me €35 to fix, including a new belt..

    I have owned many many cars from the 70's and 80's that I lavished money and time on. The vast majority gave me reliable service but none of them were asked to do 600 to 1000 miles a week in all weathers.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 843 ✭✭✭HandsomeDan


    Seweryn wrote: »
    Just go to any civilised country, where there is no motor tax separately charged or is included in fuel price or where people are not so bothered about this. [/YOUTUBE]

    ???

    What, like Somalia?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,494 ✭✭✭Seweryn


    ???

    What, like Somalia?
    Yes. Or Albania.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,354 ✭✭✭Sobanek


    Or Kenya


Advertisement