Ireland vs Australia match thread, Saturday 22nd Nov. KO 4:30PM

Losty Dublin

Note; sorry it's so late

Ireland vs. Australia. Aviva, Saturday 22th November, KO 4:30PM. Live TV on RTE 2/HD and Sky Sports 2/HD from 4PM. Live radio on RTE 2FM.

Ireland

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 56
14. Tommy Bowe (Belfast Harlequins/Ulster) 55
13. Robbie Henshaw (Buccaneers/Connacht) 4
12. Gordon D'Arcy (Lansdowne/Leinster) 80
11. Simon Zebo (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10
10. Jonathan Sexton (Racing Metro 92) 46
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 29
1. Jack McGrath (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 11
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 77
3. Mike Ross (Clontarf/Leinster) 43
4. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 19
5. Paul O'Connell (Young Munster/Munster) 95 (capt)
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 24
7. Rhys Ruddock (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 4
8. Jamie Heaslip (Naas/Leinster) 68

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin (St. Mary's College/Leinster) 37
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 12
18. Rodney Ah You (Buccaneers/Connacht) 3
19. Dave Foley (UL Bohemians/Munster) 1
20. Tommy O'Donnell (UL Bohemians/Munster) 6
21. Eoin Reddan (Lansdowne/Leinster) 57
22. Ian Madigan (Blackrock/Leinster) 12
23. Felix Jones (Shannon/Munster) 8

Australia


15. Israel Folau (NSW Waratahs) 27
14. Adam Ashley-Cooper (NSW Waratahs) 102
13. Tevita Kuridrani (ACT Brumbies) 19
12. Matt Toomua (ACT Brumbies) 19
11. Henry Speight (ACT Brumbies) *
10. Bernard Foley (NSW Waratahs) 16
9. Nick Phipps (NSW Waratahs) 26
1. James Slipper (Queensland Reds) 61
2. Saia Fainga'a (Queensland Reds) 34
3. Sekope Kepu (NSW Waratahs) 50
4. Sam Carter (ACT Brumbies) 9
5. Rob Simmons (Queensland Reds) 48
6. Luke Jones (Melbourne Rebels) 1
7. Michael Hooper (NSW Waratahs) 40 (capt)
8. Ben McCalman (Western Force) 36

Replacements:

16. James Hanson (Queensland Reds)
17. Benn Robinson (NSW Waratahs)
18. Tetera Faulkner (Western Force)
19. Will Skelton (NSW Waratahs)
20. Jake Schatz (Queensland Reds)
21. Will Genia (Queensland Reds)
22. Quade Cooper (Queensland Reds)
23 Kurtley Beale (NSW Waratahs).

Preview. Ah, Australia.

A team that always comes across as being a giant whom are beatable yet when push comes to shove you rarely ever beat. Oddly enough, they are also a county that rarely ever come across as a threat when compared to, say the All Blacks or the Springboks yet just when you think you have their number, you don't. Just like they were last November.

Or indeed this November.

You see, it’s hardly 5 weeks ago since their rugby team was in apparent meltdown. Ewan McKenzie hadn't long taken over from Robbie Deans and a new dawn threatened. It came but in a disastrous way; controversial team selections, an alleged affair and many dressing room arguments dominated the back pages and clearly affected team morale. It was their version of Irish Water only worse!

By the time he resigned, the Wallabies had a win loss record of just 50%; even then it was padded up with a good 2013 tour. With all this mess in mind Mike Cheike had something of a task as coach to a team that he hadn’t picked. He has managed to pluck a win against what we now know is a poor Wales team and a close defeat to France; this weekend now is the must win game for their the tour and for their sins, they have the in form team of the moment yet whom are possibly at their weakest in a long time.



Head to head. Much is being made of this being a battle between two ex Leinster coaches but it's more so now a change of Ireland consolidating their 3rd place in the IRB rankings.

Two weeks ago the talk was about how much Ireland could hold the Springboks to given the extent of the injured list and wether the young and untested back line was ready for world rugby. Come 8PM the talk was about a genial team selection and a monster work count, the pack especially.

Toner and O’Connell dominated the line out after a couple of early wobbles but the tight set piece left a lot to be desired, Ross not having one of his better shifts packing down. Granted he was carrying an injury but even so the front row were found wanting far too much for test rugby, only settling down late in the game as subs came on. James Slipper needs to be looking to disrupt Ross and Best at scrum time to exploit them both and to force clean penalties. On the other side, Kepu had Cian Healy bought and sold big time last year; this week in McGrath he has a far more solid loosehead to deal with .



In the loose, Best is no Sean O’Brien but he is still legendary for disruption at the breakdown and will help the Wallaby’s from bullying Ireland at the ruck. Ruddock will also make things hard here in an area that has traditionally been a stronghold for the visitors but which has been found somewhat wanting on tour this year.

Behind the scrum it gets more interesting. Phipps and Foley are a great half back partnership but so too are Murray and Sexton; they controlled the space game beautifully 2 weeks ago and have the respect of their back.



Henry Speight (Above.) makes his debut at blind winger and will definitely relish having ball in hand against Simon Zebo, a player who has flattered to deceive this year in spite of his try last week and who must pull his socks up. Folau is a match for Robert Kearney at full back but for me the midfield battle will be decisive. Henshaw had a big game in spite of little clean ball and defended as if he was Eddie Halvey in disguise. This week sees D’arcy partner him with both having a lot to prove if the ball is clean enough to get their way.

Their opposite numbers played here last year, Tevita Kuridrani being red carded for a tip tackle on Peter O’Mahony late in the game. Their direct running line complements Folau’s searing line breaks; my guess is for them to try offload as much and as quickly as possible and to try avoid maul situations as much as possible If picked on the bench, Beale will almost definitely come into the centre late in the game as tacklers tire.

Verdict. You have two teams here. One is in form and coming off a massive victory even with a depleted squad while the other is in a jock and whom didn’t impress over the last 3 weeks. Cheika will get his squad right in time for RWC but this weekend isn’t the time for him to be doing it, good and all a coach as he is. His team has the makings of it and they will fight, but they won’t fight well enough on Saturday. Ireland to win by 11 points and to wonder what in Gods name the Lansdowne Cup is

Oh and if anybody is wondering about the relationship between ex Leinster coaches Joe and Mike....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGuNsiSZ9RI

George Hook

Come on Ireland!!

bilston

Good write up Losty.

One question, who is the man in the middle? Is it Nige?

Edit- checked and it's Glen Jackson. Owens is toych judge. I suppose the younger refs need big games and Jackson is probably one of the best young refs around. Helps that he played to a decent standard.

errlloyd

Pumped for this, the centre partners we've been expecting for a year get their first run out

Losty Dublin

bilston wrote: »

Good write up Losty.

One question, who is the man in the middle? Is it Nige?

Edit- checked and it's Glen Jackson. Owens is toych judge. I suppose the younger refs need big games and Jackson is probably one of the best young refs around. Helps that he played to a decent standard.

You know something but most of the news sites don't seen too bothered to mention referees at all. Given their central role in games, it is unusual but there ya go.

clappyhappy

Great opening post OP!

I too think that Ireland can win this one, if they do it will be a great boost going into the 6 nations and the World Cup. Then again too much could be expected of them if they were to.

I like schmidt as head coach, think he grounds the players well.

All in all should be a great game, bring it on!!

duckysauce

why is Edna there --

crybaby

22nd november not the 20th

Ardillaun

I don't know what will happen in the scrum but I worry more about the backs e.g. how Henshaw and Zebo will work together in defence. Foley also looks in nice kicking form and should make full use of the penalties he is given unlike some of his predecessors.

clsmooth

Losty Dublin wrote: »

On the other side, Kepu had Cian Healy bought and sold big time last year; this week in McGrath he has a far more solid loosehead to deal with .

Folau is a match for Robert Kearney at full back but for me the midfield battle will be decisive.

Great post, although these 2 views I'd debate. Im not sure McGrath is that much better than Healy in the scrum if at all. And Folau is more than a match for Kearney, RK is a great full back, but Folau is one of the best players in the world. Watching him in the flesh is where you notice he's head and shoulders above most others on the pitch.

corny

One thing i'm not buying? They won't be tired and we won't have an edge because of fatigue. They've backed up for three weeks now and fitness wise been more than a match for their opponents. At the end of a brutal test match last week they finished by far the stronger against France. See no reason why thats gonna change.

I actually think Australia will produce a big performance. Which isn't a bad thing. If we manage to win a game like that confidence and optimism would go through the roof. Again, not a bad thing.

Ireland by 3 in another brutal (as in tough;)) game.

redmca2

There is no doubt in my mind that Ireland can and should win this match. The greatest test is to deliver a performance going in as favourites, a perennial problem for Ireland over the years.

I am encouraged by our win in Paris in March when we did go there as favourites and deliver ...... just.

Thanks to JS I think the team is growing mentally into the right place to do what the All Blacks do day in day out -- win from the front.

former legend

Now that's a preview!

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Henry Speight (Above.) makes his debut at blind winger and will definitely relish having ball in hand against Simon Zebo, a player who has flattered to deceive this year in spite of his try last week and who must pull his socks up.

vienne86

Great preview Losty - just change the date! Yes, I think Ireland should be able to win here, but it will be hard work. Can't wait.

.ak

Haha, why is is there a pic of Joe, Enda and Herb Hribar?

EDIT: Ah, a "feel good story".... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-pictures-taoiseach-enda-kenny-has-got-another-wallop-29649532.html

Good man Joe.

Larbre34

Is there anything to be said for an auld Poll for the score spread?

I could still see this going either way. Anywhere between Ireland by 15 or Australia by 15.

vienne86

If Ireland are acccurate, they should get it. Joe's tactics call for accuracy, and it will be needed tomorrow. I'd fancy us.

former legend

P*ssing rain in Dublin at the moment but forecast is for a dry day tomorrow and not much wind, should make for a good game.

Can't wait for this now.

errlloyd

.ak wrote: »

Haha, why is is there a pic of Joe, Enda and Herb Hribar?

EDIT: Ah, a "feel good story".... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-pictures-taoiseach-enda-kenny-has-got-another-wallop-29649532.html

Good man Joe.

It's nice to see the nations most important leader can take time out of his schedule to talk to Enda Kenny

vienne86

.ak wrote: »

Haha, why is is there a pic of Joe, Enda and Herb Hribar?

EDIT: Ah, a "feel good story".... http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/in-pictures-taoiseach-enda-kenny-has-got-another-wallop-29649532.html

Good man Joe.

Great effort there from Joe. Better luck next time!

Sangre

Losty Dublin wrote: »

You know something but most of the news sites don't seen too bothered to mention referees at all. Given their central role in games, it is unusual but there ya go.

The flipside of that is you have the likes of Thornley who talks about the refs way too much.

.ak

vienne86 wrote: »

Great effort there from Joe. Better luck next time!

He kicked a ball into Enda's face. Pretty sure that's winning.

StoneGrey

Fascinating stat by Toland in the Times today, out of the 200+ tackles Oz made against Wales and France, Foley only made two of them.

former legend

Currently being discussed on the leinster thread:



Is Ferg the 24th man? Or was he just cycling past the Shelbourne and decided to stop for a chat with Paulie?

who_me

Heard it suggested that the performance is more important for Ireland than the win. Might I respectfully suggest fook that! This is a massive season for us, as reigning champions (in a "hard year") we have a great shot at two championships in a row, if not possibly a Grand Slam. And then a l'il old World Cup after that.

I think a big performance that still leads to a defeat would be a set-back for us. "Even if we perform well, we still lose at home". For me, we need to be in the winning habit going into this season. "Even if we make lots of mistakes, we still win". SA was the perfect example of that, blown away in the scrum and losing several lineouts, and still winning by 14 points. That's the kind of game that starts players believing they can go all the way. A win at all costs!!

CatFromHue

McFadden was on The Last Word til 6.45 or so and Today FM isn't too far from the Shelbourne so he was definitely in the area anyway.

No lights on his bike though Tut tut tut

errlloyd

former legend wrote: »

Currently being discussed on the leinster thread:


Is Ferg the 24th man? Or was he just cycling past the Shelbourne and decided to stop for a chat with Paulie?

Cycling at night, no lights, no high vis, no helmet, no reflectors on a fixie. His commute possibly more likely to get him injured than his day job.

Larbre34

He's just helping to bring in the fitness kit. Ahem.

George Hook

Wait... why do the get so many guys on the bench?

Tox56

who_me wrote: »

Heard it suggested that the performance is more important for Ireland than the win. Might I respectfully suggest fook that! This is a massive season for us, as reigning champions (in a "hard year") we have a great shot at two championships in a row, if not possibly a Grand Slam. And then a l'il old World Cup after that.

I think a big performance that still leads to a defeat would be a set-back for us. "Even if we perform well, we still lose at home". For me, we need to be in the winning habit going into this season. "Even if we make lots of mistakes, we still win". SA was the perfect example of that, blown away in the scrum and losing several lineouts, and still winning by 14 points. That's the kind of game that starts players believing they can go all the way. A win at all costs!!

Fair point but I think there has to be some freedom and risks taken that wouldn't be in a 6N decider for example, ultimately in the grand scheme of this season this game doesn't mean much. Basically a good performance would mean more to me than grinding out a 3-0 win, although there is value in keeping that winning mentality I admit

Zzippy

A fixie? Bleedin' hipster! :rolleyes:

who_me

Tox56 wrote: »

Fair point but I think there has to be some freedom and risks taken that wouldn't be in a 6N decider for example, ultimately in the grand scheme of this season this game doesn't mean much. Basically a good performance would mean more to me than grinding out a 3-0 win, although there is value in keeping that winning mentality I admit

Ideally, we'll get both

Given that there's a simple, clear gameplan that the players can go to, even if things aren't going well & mistakes are made - I expect consistency of performance. I'd be very surprised if we were really sloppy against Aus.

But I really want the win, even if it's not the prettiest. When England won the RWC, they had just beaten NZ home AND away, and won the Grand Slam after years of coming close. Did they play well in those NZ games - no idea, but I remember they won! To me, winning vs Aus, then winning the 6N (ideally a GS) is far more productive preparation for the RWC than a big performance but still losing.

molloyjh

I'm all for the win this weekend myself. I think if we win we'll have done so with a good performance. After all when was the last time we won a game playing badly? Last week maybe, but we were very much a Wolfhounds team so that doesn't really count, and we weren't bad per se last week.

ionadnapokot

Ok, going to throw a grenade here! But I have been a little underwhelmed by Irelands counter attack under Holy Joe.
Save for BOD's Sexton's brilliant (2nd) try v's France. I cant recall another Irish try from turnover ball. Please feel free to point out my ignorance! (v's Georgia?)
But in all seriousness I would like to see Ireland try and counter attack more with ball in hand rather than play for territory.
I wonder will we see this tomorrow against a sometimes disorganised Australian defence.

I should state that I have never been happier with an Irish coach! Love Joe!

stephen_n

A win would represent a huge psychological step forward for Ireland, not just the wining mentality but the fact we are not playing second fiddle to SH teams, realistically we should be expecting to win our home games. Performance matters but not in an aesthetic sense, it really doesn't need to look pretty, just be controlled and effective.

I've had my heart broken too many times to jump on the band wagon just yet, even with Schmidt at the helm.

George Hook

George Hook wrote: »

Wait... why do the get so many guys on the bench?

OP needs to be updated with:

Reserves: 16. J. Hanson, 17. T. Faulkner, 18. B. Robinson, 19. W. Skelton, 20. J. Schatz, 21. W. Genia, 22. Q. Cooper, 23. K. Beale.

Tox56

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Ok, going to throw a grenade here! But I have been a little underwhelmed by Irelands counter attack under Holy Joe.
Save for BOD's Sexton's brilliant (2nd) try v's France. I cant recall another Irish try from turnover ball. Please feel free to point out my ignorance! (v's Georgia?)
But in all seriousness I would like to see Ireland try and counter attack more with ball in hand rather than play for territory.
I wonder will we see this tomorrow against a sometimes disorganised Australian defence.

I should state that I have never been happier with an Irish coach! Love Joe!

There was a length of the field one vs Samoa in Schmidt's first game, and one of Jones's last week from our 22. Kearney's against NZ would probably count too.

Our attack could definitely be sharper, but the lack of offloads looks like a tactic so far, I would like to see us take a few more risks in attack

ionadnapokot

Tox56 wrote: »

There was a length of the field one vs Samoa in Schmidt's first game, and one of Jones's last week from our 22. Kearney's against NZ would probably count too.

Our attack could definitely be sharper, but the lack of offloads looks like a tactic so far, I would like to see us take a few more risks in attack

Ok. Fair enough.
I wud call RK's an intercept try though!

molloyjh

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Ok. Fair enough.
I wud call RK's an intercept try though!

That was definitely turnover ball. It was spilled forward rather than intercepted.

George Hook

who_me wrote: »

Ideally, we'll get both

Given that there's a simple, clear gameplan that the players can go to, even if things aren't going well & mistakes are made - I expect consistency of performance. I'd be very surprised if we were really sloppy against Aus.

But I really want the win, even if it's not the prettiest. When England won the RWC, they had just beaten NZ home AND away, and won the Grand Slam after years of coming close. Did they play well in those NZ games - no idea, but I remember they won! To me, winning vs Aus, then winning the 6N (ideally a GS) is far more productive preparation for the RWC than a big performance but still losing.

We should ask Gatland if he'd rather a good performance against a SANZAR team or a win.:p

.ak

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Ok, going to throw a grenade here! But I have been a little underwhelmed by Irelands counter attack under Holy Joe.
Save for BOD's Sexton's brilliant (2nd) try v's France. I cant recall another Irish try from turnover ball. Please feel free to point out my ignorance! (v's Georgia?)
But in all seriousness I would like to see Ireland try and counter attack more with ball in hand rather than play for territory.
I wonder will we see this tomorrow against a sometimes disorganised Australian defence.

I should state that I have never been happier with an Irish coach! Love Joe!

There's a lot to be said about limited oppertunities. Have we had the space available to counter attack? Most of our games have been tight affairs. We haven't had the space to run a big counter attack.


But yes, it's there, when teams afford it. We did it against NZ, Samoa and Georgia all off the top of my head.

ionadnapokot

molloyjh wrote: »

That was definitely turnover ball. It was spilled forward rather than intercepted.

technically yes! but....;)

Everyone knows Zebo is the reason behind the lack of counter attacking

bilston

.ak wrote: »

There's a lot to be said about limited oppertunities. Have we had the space available to counter attack? Most of our games have been tight affairs. We haven't had the space to run a big counter attack.


But yes, it's there, when teams afford it. We did it against NZ, Samoa and Georgia all off the top of my head.

Can't remember off the top of my head but did we score any counter attack tries against Italy or Scotland?

.ak

bilston wrote: »

Can't remember off the top of my head but did we score any counter attack tries against Italy or Scotland?

I can't remember. I remember we pretty much had the ball for the entire Italy game so we never really had the opportunity.

molloyjh

We came close against Wales late in the game. Turned ball over in our 22 and Jackson got down around their 22 but their chase back managed to prevent the pass back inside for the try.

EDIT: Yep, 1:44:20 into the below.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvsZvVPA164

ionadnapokot

.ak wrote: »

There's a lot to be said about limited oppertunities. Have we had the space available to counter attack? Most of our games have been tight affairs. We haven't had the space to run a big counter attack.


But yes, it's there, when teams afford it. We did it against NZ, Samoa and Georgia all off the top of my head.

I agree. You can only counter attack when its on. i.e NZ kick as much as any team. But NZ counter attack allot more than we do. They are of course one of the best teams at identifying, or exploring, the space available. I would like to see Ireland try and do this a little more. Cant learn it if you don't try. Even by throwing the "two passes out" and seeing if its on.

.ak

NZ tend to suck in far more defenders and also teams play tighter phase ball against NZ to stop interceptions, so naturally on turn over ball they usually have oodles of space to work with.

Tox56

bilston wrote: »

Can't remember off the top of my head but did we score any counter attack tries against Italy or Scotland?

There were a good few counter attacks against Italy but I don't remember any resulting in a try. Maybe unsurprisingly most of our counter attacking has come against the weaker teams