Ireland vs Australia match thread, Saturday 22nd Nov. KO 4:30PM

Swiwi.

former legend wrote: »

Not sure why D'Arcy is getting so much stick, thought he did OK without setting the world on fire.

Think you just answered your own Q there FL. He may be carrying a niggle perhaps but if his form stays at this level I think he'd be slightly nervous when the 6N squad is announced.

Agree with you about the ref, I don't think it's an Irish thing per se but people always overdramatise when it goes against and vice versa. He was fair to both sides and that's the most important thing. Better to be humble in victory and gracious in defeat rather than whinging about the ref. Ireland did win after all!

cameramonkey

Niallof9 wrote: »

Look Zebo's offload failure was a huge error when we needed to keep possession and maybe eke out another penalty, exactly the reason Joe doesn't favour them in certain situations. I'd say Trimble is favourite to start if fit. But to suggest Zebo is now somehow behind Earls and Fitzgerald, both of whom have failed to live up to their early promise and are blighted with injury, is ludicrous. Zebo gets some amount of stick here compared to others and you often have to wonder why. Its becoming a bit of a joke. His early hit was as much of a positive catalyst as his incomplete offload.

Zebo is the victim of ridiculous amounts of hype from some on rugby forums.

His off load for the first Australia try was a very bad decision on his part. If you cut out off loads like against SA then the opposition have less chances to attack while your defence is not set. I think Zebo had an OK game but if you dont implement the schmidt game plan then you should get dropped.

People look at that one incident and think well it was only one off load but it cuts to the very mentality of Schmidt and what he wants to instil in Ireland. Zebo tried a high risk pass for a low gain(Australia had cover) move at a time when Ireland needed to be conservative and to slow the game.. This mistake gave the opposition a great attacking platform.

Zebo is a good player but needs to change his mentality a bit to fit into the schmidt plan.

Tobyglen

Awkward Badger wrote: »

My thoughts on what's been talked about.

Firstly amazing win and brilliant to get a clean sweep in the AI's.
I didn't think it was the limited, anti rugby kicking game-plan some people are going on about. That first half certainly wasn't Ireland sitting down to defend, it was both teams going at it.

I thought the ref was terrible, just didn't want to know about infringements. That tackle on Kearney in the air was a yellow. If he just caught him fair enough but he tackled him while he was in the air with no intention of going for the ball. Deliberate, illegal and dangerous. Yellow card. The try didn't even look like it was grounded to me, the pass was clearly forward and between them the TMO and ref made a balls of it. Falou's knock on was another yellow card and a possible penalty try. No way in hell he was ever going to be able to intercept a ball swatting at it with one hand. And then there was the countless other things throughout the game the ref didn't seem bothered doing anything about. Shocking refereeing.

There's been a lot of talk about Zebo as per usual. I thought he did well but its very clear to me now there is little between him and Kearney and Gilroy at this level and they are all a far cry from the talents of Bowe, Trimble, Fitz and Earls. Capable of slotting in and doing a job but not a quality international wing. Not yet anyway. I hope we have a choice of the top 4 for the 6 nations.

Toner again I thought did well. Foley was good against Georgia, Lenihan flattered him with a MOTM award but he was good. And he was ok when he came on yesterday. Not sure why people think Foley is all of a sudden breathing down Toners neck.

Ruddock did well and I think he's solid at this level, just not a real 7 maybe. Then again when comparing him to the likes of SOB he's always going to look like he's just an adequate filler and nothing more.

Sexton and Murray were a bit off the pace I thought, compared with the SA game anyway. They were a bit flustered in those fast exchanges in the first half. They had their little blips (Sextons missed tackle for the try) but on the whole they were solid and kicked well, plenty of balls to chase, territory gained etc.

Madigan I was impressed with and delighted for. I know he was one of the guys at fault for the try in the loss to NZ. I'd say that played no small part in his reaction to being the one to kill the game off against Australia. For that alone, to hold out in a similar vein to the NZ game but this time do it right is a massive experience for those players.

Toner did not do well, he was well off the pace. Playing against a swift Oz team he was found out. If Dave Foley continues his rate of improvement he will by pass Toner by the 6 Nations. He has a lot more physicality and mobility than Toner. It will be good to have both as different options for the 6 nations.

Niallof9

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Its because unlike Kearney or Gilroy Zebo is put forth as an equal to and often the better of Bowe, Tribmle, Fitz and Earls. As someone who is now a quality international winger and should be starting international rugby regardless of the competition. People accept Kearney and Gilroy are young and limited and not quite there yet. People can't seem to understand that with Zebo.

He's not a quality international winger yet. And there is no hope in hell of Joe Schmidt ever picking him over a fit and on form Trimble, Bowe, Earls or Fitz who are all proven quality international wingers. He's not even a clear choice ahead of Kearney or Gilroy who have also shown they can do a job as good as Zebo and even McFadden would probably keep him out of a 23.

I'm not a Munster fan to be clear, and i actually don't think Zebo will ever be world class. But its not his fault if he is overhyped by the media who see an exotic name with martinique running heritage. His father was a runner, so he must be fast goes the line. I actually know a few people in the system who have told me his speed testing isn't that spectacular, but Nugent might have you believe he is Usain...Zee-Boh. But again, how is this Simon Zebo's fault? And its true Joe doesn't fancy him...

But... Fitzgerald has a long way to get back. And when has he ever been amazing in an Irish shirt?Great defender, with a poor try scoring record and unfortunately with three years of injuries. I don't think he should be part of this conversation.

Earls is a class finisher but gets the same stick as Zebo sometimes. Bowe is our one irreplaceable world class winger. I think all the rest are interchangeable. Like who thought Trimble would be player of the year? People were saying, oh Fitz will be back in etc etc. He won't. And McFadden is a centre playing winger.

Peoples expectations of Zebo's are completely skewed. To anyone who doubts this, have a look at what the All Blacks media were saying about him prior to our last test over there, before he was even capped. And its becoming obvious to me why this is. Plus he didn't help himself with the stupid Z sign and other indiscretions. He's a young and decent winger who is inexperienced at this level (11 caps). To single him out yesterday as some are doing, is nothing short of a joke, when our inside centre with 70 odd caps missed two crucial tackles in the build up to tries.

Tobyglen

cameramonkey wrote: »

Zebo is the victim of ridiculous amounts of hype from some on rugby forums.

His off load for the first Australia try was a very bad decision on his part. If you cut out off loads like against SA then the opposition have less chances to attack while your defence is not set. I think Zebo had an OK game but if you dont implement the schmidt game plan then you should get dropped.

People look at that one incident and think well it was only one off load but it cuts to the very mentality of Schmidt and what he wants to instil in Ireland. Zebo tried a high risk pass for a low gain(Australia had cover) move at a time when Ireland needed to be conservative and to slow the game.. This mistake gave the opposition a great attacking platform.

Zebo is a good player but needs to change his mentality a bit to fit into the schmidt plan.

Sexton was roaring for the pass, if was a try if it came off. 2 missed tackles thereafter.
Don't think Zebo is not victim of hype at all, he's just a different type of player and attracts attention, much of it negative as you have unfairly displayed above. His work rate and tackle count have gone through the roof in the last 12 months and he's still adapting his game to Schmidt's gameplan.

Molester Stallone II

cameramonkey wrote: »

Zebo is the victim of ridiculous amounts of abuse from some on rugby forums.
.

Coin....2 sides

former legend

Tobyglen wrote: »

Toner did not do well, he was well off the pace. Playing against a swift Oz team he was found out. If Dave Foley continues his rate of improvement he will by pass Toner by the 6 Nations. He has a lot more physicality and mobility than Toner. It will be good to have both as different options for the 6 nations.

Toner didn't have his best day but he has been brilliant the last 12 months. Foley is still very much an unknown quantity. He might overtake Toner but last night won't have any bearing in that.

cameramonkey

Niallof9 wrote: »

To single him out yesterday as some are doing, is nothing short of a joke, when our inside centre with 70 odd caps missed two crucial tackles in the build up to tries.

Its the thinking process that you have to consider.

Zebo should not have been thinking of an off load in a risky situation he should of been thinking how do I go to ground and avoid quick ball for the opposition,he should not of been thinking how do I off load in this position.

The attempted pass was the result of an attitude, that attitude needs to change.

cameramonkey

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

Coin....2 sides

True.

chupacabra

Tobyglen wrote: »

Toner did not do well, he was well off the pace. Playing against a swift Oz team he was found out. If Dave Foley continues his rate of improvement he will by pass Toner by the 6 Nations. He has a lot more physicality and mobility than Toner. It will be good to have both as different options for the 6 nations.

Thats rubbish. Toner has one iffy game and he's "found out". Nonsense.

Also stating the obvious a bit but if that brainless offload attempt from Zebo actually came off people would be praising him to high heaven. We could really do with Trimble being back though.

Tobyglen

Niallof9 wrote: »

I'm not a Munster fan to be clear, and i actually don't think Zebo will ever be world class. But its not his fault if he is overhyped by the media who see an exotic name with martinique running heritage. His father was a runner, so he must be fast goes the line. I actually know a few people in the system who have told me his speed testing isn't that spectacular, but Nugent might have you believe he is Usain...Zee-Boh. But again, how is this Simon Zebo's fault? And its true Joe doesn't fancy him...

But... Fitzgerald has a long way to get back. And when has he ever been amazing in an Irish shirt?Great defender, with a poor try scoring record and unfortunately with three years of injuries. I don't think he should be part of this conversation.

Earls is a class finisher but gets the same stick as Zebo sometimes. Bowe is our one irreplaceable world class winger. I think all the rest are interchangeable. Like who thought Trimble would be player of the year? People were saying, oh Fitz will be back in etc etc. He won't. And McFadden is a centre playing winger.

Peoples expectations of Zebo's are completely skewed. To anyone who doubts this, have a look at what the All Blacks media were saying about him prior to our last test before he was even capped. And its becoming obvious to me why this is. Plus he didn't help himself with the stupid Z sign etc. He's a young and decent winger who is inexperienced at this level (11 caps). To single him out yesterday as some are doing, is nothing short of a joke, when our inside centre with 70 odd caps missed two crucial tackles in the build up to tries.

Good post, not to mention Rob Kearney missing 2 tackles which directly led to tries. The 2nd miss on Speight was particularly poor.

cameramonkey

Tobyglen wrote: »

Sexton was roaring for the pass, if was a try if it came off. 2 missed tackles thereafter.
Don't think Zebo is not victim of hype at all, he's just a different type of player and attracts attention, much of it negative as you have unfairly displayed above. His work rate and tackle count have gone through the roof in the last 12 months and he's still adapting his game to Schmidt's gameplan.

Players always roar for the ball, thats the game.

I looked at it again and the Australians had cover for where that pass was going.

Lots of tackles were missed after his mistake but the mistake is what started off the Australian move.

As I said Zebo played OK but he made a bad mistake that strikes at the very heart of the Schmidt philosophy of dont give the opposition an attacking platform for a low risk move.

I hope Zebo can change his mentality but until he does he will not be first a first choice winger.

Tobyglen

chupacabra wrote: »

Thats rubbish. Toner has one iffy game and he's "found out". Nonsense.

Also stating the obvious a bit but if that brainless offload attempt from Zebo actually came off people would be praising him to high heaven. We could really do with Trimble being back though.

Calm down.

Awkward Badger

Niallof9 wrote: »

I'm not a Munster fan to be clear, and i actually don't think Zebo will ever be world class. But its not his fault if he is overhyped by the media who see an exotic name with martinique running heritage. His father was a runner, so he must be fast goes the line. I actually know a few people in the system who have told me his speed testing isn't that spectacular, but Nugent might have you believe he is Usain...Zee-Boh. But again, how is this Simon Zebo's fault? And its true Joe doesn't fancy him...

But... Fitzgerald has a long way to get back. And when has he ever been amazing in an Irish shirt?Great defender, with a poor try scoring record and unfortunately with three years of injuries. I don't think he should be part of this conversation.

Earls is a class finisher but gets the same stick as Zebo sometimes. Bowe is our one irreplaceable world class winger. I think all the rest are interchangeable. Like who thought Trimble would be player of the year? People were saying, oh Fitz will be back in etc etc. He won't. And McFadden is a centre playing winger.

Peoples expectations of Zebo's are completely skewed. To anyone who doubts this, have a look at what the All Blacks media were saying about him prior to our last test before he was even capped. And its becoming obvious to me why this is. Plus he didn't help himself with the stupid Z sign etc. He's a young and decent winger who is inexperienced at this level (11 caps). To single him out yesterday as some are doing, is nothing short of a joke, when our inside centre with 70 odd caps missed two crucial tackles in the build up to tries.

Firstly I'm not singling him out. I thought he did well, bad pass aside. I'm just mentioning it because people are talking about it and explaining why it is he draws attention as far as I see it.

Fitz did play brilliantly for Ireland. I think he started every game in the grand slam win. He's an immensely talented player when fit and on form and from the looks of it he might be available for the 6N/WC and be playing well. If thats the case he eclipses anything Simon Zebo can offer. Scoring stats is a nonsense argument we went through in relation to Earls v Trimble.

Who would have thought Trimble would be player of the year ? There's plenty who know how good he was and what he could offer. He's shown it time and again yet been ignored because of things like his try scoring record...

With everyone fit and playing in the run up to the 6 nations from Bowe, Trimble, Fitz, Earls, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney, McFadden. The top 4 are contenders for starting spots looking to the WC and McFadden's versatility gets him a mention. Zebo, Gilroy and Kearney get left at the provinces because they just cannot offering what the others can.

bleg

How did I know people would be bitching about Zebo on this thread before I came in here? I thought he had a great game, brain fart aside. Look at his opposite winger, completely out of position for Zebo's try. As stated, there were plenty of mistakes made by other players as well. Sexton and Murray had some pretty brainless kicking in the second quarter.

Rory Best needs to sort his throwing. He's a liability at this stage.

We have had a couple of games now where Ireland are having to "heroically defend" in the last 20 minutes putting "bodies on the line" and having "walking wounded" on the pitch. Why is this so? Why aren't we the ones pummeling the opposition and making them defend like crazy? It's a worrying pattern.

Great game, great result, dunno how POC keeps going. Well done Ireland.

mfceiling

Tobyglen wrote: »

Toner did not do well, he was well off the pace. Playing against a swift Oz team he was found out. If Dave Foley continues his rate of improvement he will by pass Toner by the 6 Nations. He has a lot more physicality and mobility than Toner. It will be good to have both as different options for the 6 nations.

Ah here pull it in will you. A young fellow who has started one game for Ireland and a few minutes off the bench will overtake toner....seriously?

Yesterday was a huge step up for foley. You did see him getting bounced off skelton? That's the next level right there in front of you.

Molester Stallone II

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah here pull it in will you. A young fellow who has started one game for Ireland and a few minutes off the bench will overtake toner....seriously?

Yesterday was a huge step up for foley. You did see him getting bounced off skelton? That's the next level right there in front of you.

You mean 23 stone Skelton who walked over quite a few more Irish players?

thomond2006

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah here pull it in will you. A young fellow who has started one game for Ireland and a few minutes off the bench will overtake toner....seriously?

Foley isn't that young mf. He's 26 and about two years younger than Devin Toner.

Tobyglen

Tobyglen wrote: »

not to mention Rob Kearney missing 2 tackles

Go back and watch again please. You will see that this is not true at all.

Kearney was waiting on best or toner to tackle as he had to cover out wide. When it went inside Toner was in his way. He did everything right. If you want to talk about missed tackles, Toner and Sexton had a bad day in the office during the first half.

Kearney on Speight was a poor tackle but he was aiming to get him into touch and Speight offloaded as the tackle came in around the back so yeah, hardly decisive.

See what you want to see I guess.

jm08

cameramonkey wrote: »

Zebo is the victim of ridiculous amounts of hype from some on rugby forums.

His off load for the first Australia try was a very bad decision on his part.

Sexton was screaming for that offload and is as much to 'blame' as Zebo for the offload.

What really was poor though was the defence after that - missed tackles from Rory Best, Devin Toner & Rob Kearney. They are the ones who will be dreading Joe Schmidt's video analysis.

ktulu123

No idea what has gone on in the thread, just awake after last night. Huge win for Ireland! Delighted! Have to watch the game back now as I can't remember much of it(free drink) :P

One thing I do remember though, which was probably the funniest thing I've heard shouted at a match. An Australia fan in front of us, while sexton was lining up a kick at goal & the Australian replacements were warming up in front of us at the south end shouted "Quad have you stolen any more laptops you dirty mongrel!!!!" Anyone else hear this? Apparently Australian's aren't fans of cooper!

Micky Dolenz

POC's 79th minute tackle.

Didn't want to post up the actual gif as it might screw with mobile users.

Tobyglen

mfceiling wrote: »

Ah here pull it in will you. A young fellow who has started one game for Ireland and a few minutes off the bench will overtake toner....seriously?

Yesterday was a huge step up for foley. You did see him getting bounced off skelton? That's the next level right there in front of you.

He's 26. He was behind 2 Lions players and an established international in DR. Not a young fella at all and imo has more in his locker than Toner who struggles with mobility. Foley has a huge engine-POCesque. Time will tell who's right but I think he'll by pass Toner pretty soon.

Skelton is 23 stone and bounced half the Irish team in his short cameo.

jm08

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Its because unlike Kearney or Gilroy Zebo is put forth as an equal to and often the better of Bowe, Tribmle, Fitz and Earls. As someone who is now a quality international winger and should be starting international rugby regardless of the competition. People accept Kearney and Gilroy are young and limited and not quite there yet. People can't seem to understand that with Zebo.

He's not a quality international winger yet. And there is no hope in hell of Joe Schmidt ever picking him over a fit and on form Trimble, Bowe, Earls or Fitz who are all proven quality international wingers. He's not even a clear choice ahead of Kearney or Gilroy who have also shown they can do a job as good as Zebo and even McFadden would probably keep him out of a 23.

Zebo has started the last 5 internationals (and played mostly 80 mins in all of them). Looks to me as if Zebo has that left wing nailed down for now. I think the other wing is between Bowe & Trimble and Bowe will win out. Andrew Trimble improved a lot, but his kicking and fielding isn't in the same league as the rest of the other wingers.

Pudsy33

Watching the final penalty that sealed the game again. I think that could have gone the other way. AAC slips and Bowe brings him down. Madigan gets in over the top which is fine as no Aussie is present. However Bowe didn't realese at an point.

thomond2006

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

POC's 79th minute tackle.

Didn't want to post up the actual gif as it might screw with mobile users.

This was worth the ticket price alone! Massive hit at a crucial time that drew a huge reaction from the crowd.

Niallof9

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Firstly I'm not singling him out. I thought he did well, bad pass aside. I'm just mentioning it because people are talking about it and explaining why it is he draws attention as far as I see it.

Fitz did play brilliantly for Ireland. I think he started every game in the grand slam win. He's an immensely talented player when fit and on form and from the looks of it he might be available for the 6N/WC and be playing well. If thats the case he eclipses anything Simon Zebo can offer. Scoring stats is a nonsense argument we went through in relation to Earls v Trimble.

Who would have thought Trimble would be player of the year ? There's plenty who know how good he was and what he could offer. He's shown it time and again yet been ignored because of things like his try scoring record...

With everyone fit and playing in the run up to the 6 nations from Bowe, Trimble, Fitz, Earls, Zebo, Gilroy, Kearney, McFadden. The top 4 are contenders for starting spots looking to the WC and McFadden's versatility gets him a mention. Zebo, Gilroy and Kearney get left at the provinces because they just cannot offering what the others can.

There's plenty who criticised Trimble on here and said all the same things, like how he can't defend or has poor skills. I'm not one of those, because like i said, Bowe is our one natural world class winger, the rest have to always be on top of their game so there will be competition. Trimble started as centre, McFadden is a centre, Earls (in his own head) is a centre. Gilroy has shown very little to be considered. Dave Kearney looks the quickest of our wings but is inexperienced.

And yes i think try scoring for a winger is important. Many times Fitzgerald butchered tries because of over running the pass. I'd want more than two tries from my international wing. Trimble has a decent try scoring record.

Fitzgerald is a fantastic defender and reader of the game, but like a lot of our wingers he has an identity crisis. Is he a winger, centre or fullback? He starts for Leinster at centre today. The one thing you can say for Zebo is he's an out and out winger.

Zebo is a victim of media hype, like Fitzgerald is (considered the next O'Drisoll when he debuted) this is mostly not his fault. I think Leinster fans have it in for him the same way Munster fans criticise Heaslip and Healy, mainly for their personalities than playing ability. If you doubt this have a gander at Babbling Brook and munsterfans.

Can we JUST ALL ACCEPT Joe is building a machine where if one player gets injured another steps in ala Henry, Ruddock, D Kearney. Something similar to New Zealand, where its all about the collective. Leave this provincial bitching and my player is better than yours alone (I'm not saying you Badger, but there are plenty of others who are). This is team Ireland and the 40 main players we have playing for us under the best coach in the world give us the greatest chance ever of winning a world cup.

Synode

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo has started the last 5 internationals (and played mostly 80 mins in all of them). Looks to me as if Zebo has that left wing nailed down for now. I think the other wing is between Bowe & Trimble and Bowe will win out. Andrew Trimble improved a lot, but his kicking and fielding isn't in the same league as the rest of the other wingers.

Trimble will replace Zebo when fit

mfceiling

Molester Stallone II wrote: »

You mean 23 stone Skelton who walked over quite a few more Irish players?

It was more a response to the fact that a poster stated that toner wasn't physical enough for international rugby.

Even at 23 stone he swatted off a second row like he was a 10 stone scrum half.

Can't remember any of our players getting emptied by skelton to the extent that foley did.

No slight on foley btw...I wouldn't like to be faced by him.

Rightwing

Went to this one, great match. Not much control in the 1st half, but that Aussie team have some backs, don't play running rugby with them. If only they could get a few forwards.

Awkward Badger

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo has started the last 5 internationals (and played mostly 80 mins in all of them). Looks to me as if Zebo has that left wing nailed down for now.

I think the other wing is between Bowe & Trimble and Bowe will win out. Andrew Trimble improved a lot, but his kicking and fielding isn't in the same league as the rest of the other wingers.

Nailing down a starting spot doesn't really consist of starting games when every other viable starter is unavailable for selection does it?

And the left wing/right wing thing doesn't come into it. If Trimble was fit Zebo wouldn't have started against SA or Aus. You know this, everyone knows this, my cat knows this. Zebo hasn't nailed down anything. And imo he won't even feature in the next 6N barring injury.

Anyway as Niall said above it doesn't matter. Its a big squad with plenty of depth now, they are all viable options if they are needed to step in.

mfceiling

Tobyglen wrote: »

He's 26. He was behind 2 Lions players and an established international in DR. Not a young fella at all and imo has more in his locker than Toner who struggles with mobility. Foley has a huge engine-POCesque. Time will tell who's right but I think he'll by pass Toner pretty soon.

Skelton is 23 stone and bounced half the Irish team in his short cameo.

He won't by pass toner pretty soon. He'll struggle to make the squad when Henderson and Tuohy come back. Unfortunately at 26 if he hasn't forced his way in to a first team place, then it's not looking good when you see who's coming back from injury in the second row.

jm08

Synode wrote: »

Trimble will replace Zebo when fit

Trimble doesn't play on the left wing anymore. Even Bowe is moved for Ulster to accommodate him on the right wing. There are a couple of players who could have played on the left wing over the last 5 games, but Schmidt has stayed with Zebo.

I think it should also be remembered that even though Trimble performed well in the 6Ns, both SA & Australia are a step up from the 6Ns countries.

jm08

mfceiling wrote: »

He won't by pass toner pretty soon. He'll struggle to make the squad when Henderson and Tuohy come back. Unfortunately at 26 if he hasn't forced his way in to a first team place, then it's not looking good when you see who's coming back from injury in the second row.

Toner will probably keep his place unless all the hookers throwing improve. Donnacha Ryan is probably the only one who will change that order.

Mahatma Geansai

Christ. The Zebo bashing returns. It doesn't matter how well he plays, it isn't possible to put in a good enough performance to win around his rabid critics.

I thought he had a very good game yesterday. His defense was brilliant and a return of 10 tackles is a pretty great indication of his huge work-rate, which some posters ignorantly continue to gloss over. The offload was definitely the right decision, and he was unlucky that it didn't come off due to an Aussie hand. You can't blame him - although some will try - for the three Irish lads who waved Phipps through to the line; If we need to blame anyone for a conceded try, fingers need to be pointed at Sexton and Toner for Phipps' second.

As an aside, POM's performance deserves a mention. He was brilliant yesterday and his tackle count of 17 far exceeds anything returned by his team-mates. POC has gotten all the plaudits for his brilliant performance in the dying minutes, but POM tackled like a demon also. He shadowed Skelton around the pitch and ensured he didn't cause any damage.

POM is fastly becoming one of our most important and indispensable players. He was the standout forward during the 6N, and he has been brilliant during the AIs. He has, pretty-much, been the best backrow on the field every time he has played for Ireland in 2014.

cameramonkey

jm08 wrote: »

Sexton was screaming for that offload and is as much to 'blame' as Zebo for the offload.

What really was poor though was the defence after that - missed tackles from Rory Best, Devin Toner & Rob Kearney. They are the ones who will be dreading Joe Schmidt's video analysis.

Again you are missing the point and blaming everyone else for the Zebo mistake.

The point is that Schmidt wants players to realise that risky off loads are not to be attempted particularly if not in a high gain situation. This is a philosophy for playing that set is in stone for him.

The missed tackles are a different issue, the players attempted the tackles but missed. Zebo attempted something that he should not have, do you see the difference? Its pretty simple really.

If Zebo had done the grunt work and gone to ground and made sure the ball was secured no one would be talking about it.

Awkward Badger

jm08 wrote: »

Trimble doesn't play on the left wing anymore. Even Bowe is moved for Ulster to accommodate him on the right wing. There are a couple of players who could have played on the left wing over the last 5 games, but Schmidt has stayed with Zebo.

I think it should also be remembered that even though Trimble performed well in the 6Ns, both SA & Australia are a step up from the 6Ns countries.

So Tommy Bowe is moved to accommodate Trimble but neither Bowe nor Trimble could shift Zebo ? This is proven by the fact out of all the other options (Gilroy struggling with form and lacking game time) Zebo has been a consistent starter (while missing every other winger we have). And the fact that the AI's are tougher than the 6N. So Joe probably would have chosen to stay with the solid and proven Simon Zebo instead of the Irish player of the year Andrew Trimble who might struggle ?

Have I got your jibberish right ?

jm08

Awkward Badger wrote: »

Nailing down a starting spot doesn't really consist of starting games when every other viable starter is unavailable for selection does it?

And the left wing/right wing thing doesn't come into it. If Trimble was fit Zebo wouldn't have started against SA or Aus. You know this, everyone knows this, my cat knows this. Zebo hasn't nailed down anything. And imo he won't even feature in the next 6N barring injury.

Anyway as Niall said above it doesn't matter. Its a big squad with plenty of depth now, they are all viable options if they are needed to step in.

I think Zebo would have started because of his left boot if nothing else. Do you not think that Trimble's poor kicking game will go against him bearing in mind that Joe seems to like to field a team of fullbacks. In the game against SA, they kicked a lot to Zebo in the first 20 minutes, and when he kept runninng back at them they soon stopped.

Why did Schmidt give so much time to Zebo? Why didn't he give Gilroy a go? Zebo is the only one now in the squad who has played outside both Payne & Henshaw (and he already has plenty of experience playing outside Earls).

Mahatma Geansai

Mahatma Geansai wrote: »

The offload was definitely the right decision

I largely agree with your post but this is absolute nonsense. You may or may not have noticed but they scored as a result of it. Some of the tackling was certainly poor.

Offload = They get the ball and score. Even if we lay some blame on other for the score, they still get the ball.
No offload = We keep the ball

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out which one is a better call. You're complaining about people being unfair to Zebo, then go to the exact opposite end of the spectrum and try blame everyone else for stuff he's responsible for. There's a middle ground.

Overall he played well, not sure if he'll keep Trimble out of the team, I'm happy enough with whoever Schmidt goes for.

Awkward Badger

jm08 wrote: »

I think Zebo would have started because of his left boot if nothing else. Do you not think that Trimble's poor kicking game will go against him bearing in mind that Joe seems to like to field a team of fullbacks.

Why did Schmidt give so much time to Zebo? Why didn't he give Gilroy a go? Zebo is the only one now in the squad who has played outside both Payne & Henshaw (and he already has plenty of experience playing outside Earls).

I don't see why there would be an onus on Trimble's kicking when there are people who can kick right across the backline. It didn't hinder him when he was the best Irish player in the 6 Nations anyway.

He gave so much time to Zebo because he was a better option than Gilroy and those were the only options he had to chose from for the two big games. To say that that is Zebo nailing down the left wing going into the 6 Nations regardless of who's fit is ridiculous.

jm08

Awkward Badger wrote: »

So Tommy Bowe is moved to accommodate Trimble but neither Bowe nor Trimble could shift Zebo ? This is proven by the fact out of all the other options (Gilroy struggling with form and lacking game time) Zebo has been a consistent starter (while missing every other winger we have). And the fact that the AI's are tougher than the 6N. So Joe probably would have chosen to stay with the solid and proven Simon Zebo instead of the Irish player of the year Andrew Trimble who might struggle ?

Have I got your jibberish right ?

Zebo has a left boot. Keith Earls was moved to the right wing when Howlett got injured to leave Zebo on the left wing.

Did Joe select Trimble as Player of the Year?

awec

jm08 wrote: »

Zebo has started the last 5 internationals (and played mostly 80 mins in all of them). Looks to me as if Zebo has that left wing nailed down for now. I think the other wing is between Bowe & Trimble and Bowe will win out. Andrew Trimble improved a lot, but his kicking and fielding isn't in the same league as the rest of the other wingers.

I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that if Trimble and Bowe are fit at the 6N time that they will be the starting wingers.

They are both better wingers than Zebo, end of story really. So are Luke Fitzgerald and Keith Earls, both of whom I hope get back to fitness soon.

errlloyd

I am far from POM's biggest fan, but the stats tell me yesterday he easily the most tackles, 17/1, which is absolutely massive to be fair to him. People are saying him and Heaslip were quiet, but with Pom tackling everything and Heaslip making a few great turnovers, I am satisfied with the backrow. Like TOD never came on, so Joe must have thought they were performing.

awec

jm08 wrote: »

Trimble doesn't play on the left wing anymore. Even Bowe is moved for Ulster to accommodate him on the right wing. There are a couple of players who could have played on the left wing over the last 5 games, but Schmidt has stayed with Zebo.

I think it should also be remembered that even though Trimble performed well in the 6Ns, both SA & Australia are a step up from the 6Ns countries.

Nonsense.

Our only fit wingers for this series were Bowe, Zebo and Gilroy.

jm08

Awkward Badger wrote: »

I don't see why there would be an onus on Trimble's kicking when there are people who can kick right across the backline. It didn't hinder him when he was the best Irish player in the 6 Nations anyway.

He gave so much time to Zebo because he was a better option than Gilroy and those were the only options he had to chose from for the two big games. To say that that is Zebo nailing down the left wing going into the 6 Nations regardless of who's fit is ridiculous.

1. Kicking is a basic skill that all backs should have.
2. Did Trimble win any Man of the Match Awards in the 6Ns?

SaveOurLyric

aimee1 wrote: »

1. I think today zebo was very good. If this is his benchmark performance then the debate is over.

What debate ? That he should start ahead of a fit Trimble come 6N ?

P_1

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

POC's 79th minute tackle.

Didn't want to post up the actual gif as it might screw with mobile users.

Fair play to the Ozzie no8 for getting the offload away you'd have to say.

thomond2006

jm08 wrote: »

1. Kicking is a basic skill that all backs should have.
2. Did Trimble win any Man of the Match Awards in the 6Ns?

How is this relevant to the match yesterday?

jm08

awec wrote: »

Nonsense.

Our only fit wingers for this series were Bowe, Zebo and Gilroy.

So, Joe rates him better than Gilroy?
Felix Jones could have done a job there as well which bearing the criticism he gets, you would expect him to be there.

Celly Smunt

jm08 wrote: »

I think Zebo would have started because of his left boot if nothing else. Do you not think that Trimble's poor kicking game will go against him bearing in mind that Joe seems to like to field a team of fullbacks. In the game against SA, they kicked a lot to Zebo in the first 20 minutes, and when he kept runninng back at them they soon stopped.

Why did Schmidt give so much time to Zebo? Why didn't he give Gilroy a go? Zebo is the only one now in the squad who has played outside both Payne & Henshaw (and he already has plenty of experience playing outside Earls).

In fairness the kicking game for a winger is far outweighed by other attributes which in my opinion Trimble trumps when fit. I can see how Zebo can compete for the place but I can't see him pushing out a fit Trimble. Especially when you have Kearney kicking from the back anyway.

I think people defending Zebo to the death have to take the red and blue tinted glasses off and be a bit more objective to see him as nothing more than average.