Should I increase the rent? What would you do in this case?

antoinolachtnai

drumswan wrote: »

This is farcical. Taking this to the extreme logical conclusion it would be OK for the landlord to turn up with a baseball bat demanding the tenant be out sooner than her legal rights allow for and as long as the tenant "agrees" it would be ok.

The OP has made a right bollix of this. Threatening and blackmailing a tenant out before her legally allowed notice period is textbook illegal eviction.

No. Illegal eviction is when someone is forcibly removed from a property without a court or PRTB order. Giving short notice (which is not what the OP did) is not the same as illegally evicting someone.

The_Morrigan

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

No. Illegal eviction is when someone is forcibly removed from a property without a court or PRTB order. Giving short notice (which is not what the OP did) is not the same as illegally evicting someone.

Illegal eviction is imposing terms outside the normal course of tenancy law to have the tenant leave - coercing a shorter term notice from a tenant under duress of being reported for an allegedly DSP fraud is not exactly playing within the rules, nor is it fair or equitable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxims_of_equity

antoinolachtnai

You feel the tenant has a claim in equity? They will have to go to the High Court to assert this surely?

An illegal eviction is described on the PRTB website. It is a narrow, specific thing and nothing like what this landlord is doing in the present case. The landlord has not in any way denied the tenant access to the dwelling or removed belongings.

http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/publications/illegal-eviction

An illegal eviction may occur where a landlord through force, intimidation or otherwise (such as cutting off utilities, changing the locks etc) denies a tenant from accessing a rented dwelling or removes a tenant’s belongings from the dwelling whether or not a valid of Notice of Termination had been served in respect of the tenancy. Section 58 of the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 provides that since 1st September 2004 a tenancy may not be terminated by the landlord by means of a notice of forfeiture, a re-entry or any other process or procedure not provided for under Part 5 of the Act.

Giving notice, valid or not, or accepting notice is not an illegal eviction.

The_Morrigan

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

You feel the tenant has a claim in equity? They will have to go to the High Court to assert this surely?

An illegal eviction is described on the PRTB website. It is a narrow, specific thing and nothing like what this landlord is doing in the present case. The landlord has not in any way denied the tenant access to the dwelling or removed belongings.

http://www.prtb.ie/media-research/publications/illegal-eviction



Giving notice, valid or not, or accepting notice is not an illegal eviction.

The maxims are a good set of principles by which to live your life; they represent fair and just dealings, not just how you gain an equitable interest in something. Therefore if you wish to rely on a legal concept, then you shouldn't have a cavalier attitude to it, if you wish to take the moral high ground, then you shouldn't use dirty tactics in which to achieve your goal.


As for your prtb link - very first line says that it's a guideline only and that all cases will be dealt with on their own merits.

The Landlord should have given the 28 days written notice, and allowed the tenant to either lodge a complaint with the PRTB or to give their proper notice. Alternatively the landlord could have waited for 6 months and given the tenant notice to vacate within the first six months of the next 4 year cycle of the tenancy.

They knew that the bf had moved in, they can't just not throw their toys out of the pram because it no longer suits them and claim a breach of the lease - his acceptance of rent and his dealings with the bf means he allowed that to carry on. If he was so concerned with the breach of the lease then he should have dealt with it at the time, not now when it has gotten to a situation that is messy and likely that the landlord will end up in the PRTB.
Threatening to report them if they don't get out asap is also not exactly a nice thing to do, neither is joking about them living in a car.

kandoola

Well I just logged in to see there were a lot of posts on my thread and that it has been closed and no reason given. I didnt see anything in it deserving of closing it, but I thought people who are interested might like an update. Ive seen far worse threads and dont feel in the least put out by people having a heated discussion with me, so no need to close it on my account at all.

boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057331561&page=9

Obviously I have split opinion in there.
So just posting this update if anyone is interested.
I will continue posting updates as it might help those in a similar situation (on both sides of the fence).

There is a lot of exaggeration going on in that thread.

The tenants are now moving out on 15th Dec. I have told them I am happy for them to move out on that date. They are moving to the girls brothers house they said.

The tenants were paying 33% below the market rate for years.
I was happy with this until they became more effort than the discount was worth.
I increased the rent by 50% to the market rate. If they move out the next tenant will be paying the market rate anyway.

The tenants are moving out because I offered them a shorter notice period that would allow them to move out before the rent increases. Me reporting them breaking the law is neither here nor there. I would think that would be my duty as a tax payer and a citizen, wouldnt you? (The boyfriend was also claiming rent allowance for the apartment without my knowledge. I dont know if thats a crime but will ask the relevant authorities should i report it)

I was accused of evicting them under duress.
How I could be convicted of evicting someone by telling them that I was going to report their crime I dont know. But i'll let you know what the Gardai say. I'll drop in to them in the next few days on my way to work to ask them if its a crime, but wont report it yet.

And I didnt give them notice of eviction. I gave them notice of a rent increase effective from 1 Jan 2015. I offered, if they wanted, that i would accept a shorter notice period, should they want to move out before the increase kicked in. They are totally entitled to stay at the higher rent should they wish. I have given no notice to quit.

And just to clarify, the things i listed in the OP were just a few examples of the hassle they have suddenly (as in from no hassle at all and then suddenly to texts, email, phone calls of threats every single day about trivial things).

Anyway I have engaged an agent now and handed over the management of the property to them. They will be taking over in Jan. its 8% of the rent and they deal with everything, form getting new tenants, should they move out , to fielding calls and queries from the tenants and collecting the rent and passing it on to me. It should only cost me about 4% after tax.. I told them i only want to hear if any expenses are required above €100. If thats the case the agent rings me and runs it by me. So Im happy with that.

I'll still drop in and update with the situation if anyone is interested. But as far as im concerned I havent put a foot wrong. If I have and the PRTB decide I have i'll come back and post that too. It seems to be moving fast and god knows what could happen by the 15th but i'll keep you posted.

Please keep this thread civil so it doesnt get closed because I think it really could be valuable to others to tease this out in a civil manner.

The_Morrigan

The thread was closed because it was going around in circles and you had already stated you were leaving the thread.
I do not want you to update the forum on anything in relation to this tenant as you keep giving identifying details and that is wholly unfair to them.