I love it when a plan comes together

Hannibal Smith · 22-04-2015 8:38pm

NetwerkErrer wrote: »

Haha! I think asking ecoli is your best bet HS. I'm just giving a guesstimate from what I've read of his. He is coaching you, yeah?

He went through the whole easy pace thing with me big time when I told him my fup up on paces a few weeks ago. He even went through his own paces as a comparison so I'm pretty sure I have that right. The steady run last Saturday was bang on. It was exactly how he said, comfortably tired at the end etc and that matched up pretty well with McMillan. (Oh crap! I've just twigged the steady run/steady state run pace difference)

I'm not sure 'coach' is the right term

. He very kindly did a plan for me and has given me a few kicks up the ar$e throws an aul eye in here to keep me on track. I don't want to rip the pee though :pac: I think next week is my last MP on the plan so it'll be OK for now.

menoscemo · 22-04-2015 8:39pm

Ok so I checked mcmillan again and it's true that if your Marathon time is slower than 3:50 then the fast end of easy is indeed faster than MP

I don't know how that is happening but it's clearly wrong.

HS I would take 'easy' as being the lower end of the mcmillan definition with steady being halfway between that and MP.
A progression run should always speed up so indeed it would be wrong to speed up from easy to steady then slow back down for MP!!

Hannibal Smith · 22-04-2015 8:47pm

menoscemo wrote: »

Ok so I checked mcmillan again and it's true that if your Marathon time is slower than 3:50 then the fast end of easy is indeed faster than MP
I don't know how that is happening but it's clearly wrong.

HS I would take 'easy' as being the lower end of the mcmillan definition with steady being halfway between that and MP.
A progression run should always speed up so indeed it would be wrong to speed up from easy to steady then slow back down for MP!!

Thank you for checking. I'm so glad it was wrong for you too

Now, is there any chance you mean the slow end of easy for progression runs only?

menoscemo · 22-04-2015 8:54pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Thank you for checking. I'm so glad it was wrong for you too

Now, is there any chance you mean the slow end of easy for progression runs only?

If you want

To be honest I am doing most of my easy runs slower than what mcmillan suggests the slow end to be, but then again I know others with the same times as me who do their easy runs a bit faster than I do. I don't think it really makes much difference.
To each their own, once they are not too fast; do them at whatever pace feels comfortable to you.
As Dubgal would say, just run them easy and forget about the watch

Pacing Mule · 22-04-2015 9:01pm

My current McMillan predicts a 3:44 marathon time.

Marathon Pace 8:34
Easy 8:30 - 9:31
Long 8:35 - 9:53
Recovery 9:38 - 10:22
Steady 7:59 - 8:19

Clearly 8:30 is nowhere near easy pace for me ! That's approaching HMP. And steady there wouldn't be far off 10k race pace.

Just shows you that these tools should be loose guides only.

Hannibal Smith · 22-04-2015 9:21pm

menoscemo wrote: »

If you want
To be honest I am doing most of my easy runs slower than what mcmillan suggests the slow end to be, but then again I know others with the same times as me who do their easy runs a bit faster than I do. I don't think it really makes much difference.
To each their own, once they are not too fast; do them at whatever pace feels comfortable to you.
As Dubgal would say, just run them easy and forget about the watch

That's what ecoli said too. Forget about pace, go by effort. And i do, now. I love my easy runs atm they really are so pleasant. The only time the actual pace of them becomes an issue for me is when I have to 'progress' on in a run. I'm so new to all of this that unless I have some guideline its like chucking spears at a dart board with a blindfold on. And that's where I've made mistakes and gone too fast knackered myself out and become a little annoyed

menoscemo · 22-04-2015 9:24pm

Seems like mcmillan has gone to sh1t!!
When i was using it a few years ago it was fairly accurate, always had my easy runs at least 30 sec/mile slower than MP and I would have been looking at times in and around Yours P M

Hannibal Smith · 22-04-2015 9:24pm

Pacing Mule wrote: »

My current McMillan predicts a 3:44 marathon time.

Marathon Pace 8:34
Easy 8:30 - 9:31
Long 8:35 - 9:53
Recovery 9:38 - 10:22
Steady 7:59 - 8:19

Clearly 8:30 is nowhere near easy pace for me ! That's approaching HMP. And steady there wouldn't be far off 10k race pace.

Just shows you that these tools should be loose guides only.

But unfortunately its the only guide I have. Up until a few weeks ago, before McMillan I thought the 5:45 min km I was doing was my marathon pace.

menoscemo · 22-04-2015 9:41pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

But unfortunately its the only guide I have. Up until a few weeks ago, before McMillan I thought the 5:45 min km I was doing was my marathon pace.

Mcmillan is fairly good at predicting an MP or a HMP based off a 5-10k time so you can accept it's MP based on your recent race times, especially as it's a theoretical MP (since you are not training for a Marathon).

Just keep the steady runs a bit slower than the MP it tells you and the easy runs slower again for the purpose of your sessions.

Edit, if you want to tell me a recent race time I am happy to give you a variation on the paces you should be running....

chickey2 · 22-04-2015 9:47pm

Would you think of trying a heart rate monitor? That way your running by effort but can measure it. Once you know your resting and maximum heart rates you can work out your zones instead of paces. I've found it great as it takes into account the conditions, if its really windy I end up running slower as my heart rate is higher but its the same effort. Gradually my paces are getting faster as my heart rate stays the same.

If I was doing a progression run I would start at 150, then increase to 160 and the to 170. Easy peasy!;-)

Hannibal Smith · 22-04-2015 11:00pm

annapr wrote: »

your fifth mistake was not making your fourth mistake your first one

Haahaa. I just got that!

Hannibal Smith · 22-04-2015 11:09pm

menoscemo wrote: »

Mcmillan is fairly good at predicting an MP or a HMP based off a 5-10k time so you can accept it's MP based on your recent race times, especially as it's a theoretical MP (since you are not training for a Marathon).

Just keep the steady runs a bit slower than the MP it tells you and the easy runs slower again for the purpose of your sessions.

Edit, if you want to tell me a recent race time I am happy to give you a variation on the paces you should be running....

Sure! Why not. 1:03:55 for a 10k

chickey2 wrote: »

Would you think of trying a heart rate monitor? That way your running by effort but can measure it. Once you know your resting and maximum heart rates you can work out your zones instead of paces. I've found it great as it takes into account the conditions, if its really windy I end up running slower as my heart rate is higher but its the same effort. Gradually my paces are getting faster as my heart rate stays the same.

If I was doing a progression run I would start at 150, then increase to 160 and the to 170. Easy peasy!;-)

I love the idea of the heart rate monitor and I really wish I'd got one. Just 2 things turning me off it...firstly I can't afford one

. Secondly, as it is I have to remember to charge my mp3 and my watch before I head out. I'll be heading out like RoboCop if I throw anything else into the mix

menoscemo · 22-04-2015 11:23pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Sure! Why not. 1:03:55 for a 10k

Ok, as you said then your MP is 7:06/km and your equivalent HMP is 6:45 according to the equivlent race time in McMillan.

So I would say; easy = 7:30/km+, Steady = 7:20-7:30, MP 7-7:10, HMP 6:40-6:50, 10k pace is 6:20-6:30 and 5k pace is 6-6:10 min/km

All the above of course can vary dues to wind/hills etc but they are good ballpark figures. If you run another race in the near future and get a better time (or equivalent time) then reassess the paces appropriately.

annapr · 23-04-2015 9:55am

to add to Meno's recommendation above... don't worry about the paces seeming very slow, they will come down over time with consistent training (speaking from experience).

also, if I were you, I'd forget about the HRM for now, it'll just be another bit of technology/numbers to drive you mad... (also speaking from experience

)

Hannibal Smith · 23-04-2015 11:57am

Thanks guys. Im taking it all onboard i promise and i cannot emphasise enough how much i appreciate the help in here.

I know it sounds like im a slave to the aul garmin/stats but im really not. I just want to make sure the (do i get to call them session nights at my level?

) work nights are as right as i can get them. And as i dont have anyone chasing me the Ross OCarroll Kelly way heckling me, its helpful to have something on my arm heckling me instead

I know im awful moany too, but im loving it all atm. If it wasnt for the plan and understanding the paces, id still be plodding around without a clue not covering half the distance to be making any improvements. But instead, im running 10km on me easy runs, knocking out 16km long runs and although it may not be as soon as i'd hoped I can just feel there is 5k and 10k just round the corner!! Slowly slowly catchy monkey!

annapr · 23-04-2015 2:47pm

you don't sound moany at all!

Hannibal Smith · 23-04-2015 5:40pm

10k easy 7.09 p km all done on effort, so I'll try better to slow down more!

Thurs runs are the ones im most proud of for 2 reasons.

1. Theyre the ones that take most balls. Ive not only to get out passed my anti running folks. (Violins out) Theyre through the estate where i grew up and passed where all the other teenagers used to slag me and my mate off. All the other people are all grown up and married with kids too but still living in the estate so its only a matter of time before one of them catches me! Hence the first and last stretch are always the fastest and i feel like a legend for running the gauntlet :pac:

2. I only started this route when i started the plan so its the one i notice the most improvement on.

Beautiful day for it!

Hannibal Smith · 07-05-2015 11:15pm

Tiptoes in

In true me style just as things were going well I messed up. No details needed, I know what I did. Hopefully its happened so far away from yet close enough to the main event to kick some sense into me. Onwards I go.

Tue 5th may 10 k easy.

No watch, no stats. First time out in a while. Was fun, was beautiful. Loved it. Went too fast, could feel it, but couldn't stop it. It was good.

Wed 6th May3 x 20 min MP with 3 min recoveries

Legs were tired from last night. Evidence that i did take it too fast. In hindsight prob should have changed this to easy and left this for the next night. But I didn't. Last MP of the plan. Totally nailed it. Last 20 mins were hard, but I went out too fast and was tired from last night so that I think explains it.

Thurs 7th may 10k easy avg pace 6:55 per km

Love it. Legs weren't as tired as last night. Got some great tips from NE a few weeks ago about hills and I'm really clipping along when I get to them now. In fact I was well passed the second hill before I even realised and that one is a sneaky fecker that used to kill me. I'm happy.

Got a lot of study to do for a stupid exam in 2 weeks, but wanted to log the above so i dont forget.

chickey2 · 08-05-2015 2:29pm

Great to see you back! I was wondering where you were.

Bungy Girl · 08-05-2015 3:55pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

the main event

Still the Mini Marathon ?

annapr · 08-05-2015 6:24pm

chickey2 wrote: »

Great to see you back! I was wondering where you were.

+1 welcome back!

Hannibal Smith · 08-05-2015 8:33pm

chickey2 wrote: »

Great to see you back! I was wondering where you were.

I saw your tallaght ac result. Massive well done! You must be so delighted.

Bungy Girl wrote: »

Still the Mini Marathon ?

It is BG...but rather than putting all my eggs in that basket, as an old boss use to say..I'm managing my expectations in relation to it. I will give it absolute welly...but if the result falls short I will find another 10k and work till I get it. In the meantime with the continuous increase in distance I'm hoping a modest half marathon might be possible in the autumn, so by hook or by crook that 10 k should come down?
I

annapr wrote: »

+1 welcome back!

Thanks Anna

Fri 8th may 4k recovery....done.

Hannibal Smith · 10-05-2015 6:38pm

16.59km 1:58 avg pace 7:07/km

annapr · 10-05-2015 7:54pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

16.59km 1:58 avg pace 7:07/km

I see you're finally getting the hang of slowing down

chickey2 · 10-05-2015 9:04pm

I think I saw you today on firhouse road west. I was in the car though!

Hannibal Smith · 10-05-2015 9:38pm

annapr wrote: »

I see you're finally getting the hang of slowing down

I dont think ive ever been in as much pain. Standing up hurts lol. Eye of the Tiger came on at the last km...i tell you if there was a tiger chasing me i wouldnt have been able to move any faster

chickey2 wrote: »

I think I saw you today on firhouse road west. I was in the car though!

Is there ANY chance it was on the first lap when i was looking fresh and feeling strong?

coz when i got back the husband opened the door took one look at me and said Jesus!

I came back with a 'fro

chickey2 · 11-05-2015 7:19pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Is there ANY chance it was on the first lap when i was looking fresh and feeling strong? coz when i got back the husband opened the door took one look at me and said Jesus! I came back with a 'fro

You were gliding along with both feet off the ground! It was just after 4 o'clock.

Hannibal Smith · 11-05-2015 8:48pm

chickey2 wrote: »

You were gliding along with both feet off the ground! It was just after 4 o'clock.

That was the first lap

it was 6 by the time I finished I did three laps around old bawn and kiltipper. Thank feck for the downhill after Spar!

Hannibal Smith · 12-05-2015 9:44pm

Tue 12 May 10k easy...turned out to be 8k at a very weak recovery pace.

Legs arent recovered from Sunday. Knew it going out so took it slow. Nearly fainted at about the 8k mark...rested on a wall...after a couple more such necessary stops, turned off the watch and walked home.

Woman beside me in work was sneezing and snotting all day...if ive caught her cold and come down with something 2 weeks before kick off....i will cry!

Bungy Girl · 12-05-2015 9:58pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

Woman beside me in work was sneezing and snotting all day...if ive caught her cold and come down with something 2 weeks before kick off....i will cry!

Aaargh, stock up on echinacea, vitamins and hand sanitiser.

aquinn · 13-05-2015 3:33pm

Hopefully she just has hayfever? Carry citrine just in case.

Did you have a drink with you on the run if you felt like fainting? That's not good. Was it warm?

Hannibal Smith · 14-05-2015 8:30am

Thanks ladies, no snotting and sneezing from me so must have been some sort of residual tiredness from Sun? Or it could have been a build up of being off for 10 days and jumping straight into a 50k week? Or maybe it was just one of those momentary things

Wed 13 May 5 x 5 min @ 10k (3 min jog recoveries)

Moaned me way through it. The whole ffs if im huffing at 10k pace in training...no way will i cope in a race...terenure is gonna be a bust. It was only at the end when i realised i may have huffed and puffed my way through, but i did the entire session and did it at an avg pace of 6:13/km so im giving myself an A- for the last whinging wednesday of the plan.

I may not be fast, i may have skipped a couple of runs and i may not hit my target on the 1st June...but Ive put in more effort for this than anything else. Hopefully the next couple of easy weeks will leave me with lots of fuel in the tank!

annapr · 14-05-2015 9:27am

haha, I always feel like that after those sessions too... but you gotta have faith that they will pay off in the end! (so i'm told

)

Hannibal Smith · 14-05-2015 10:47am

annapr wrote: »

haha, I always feel like that after those sessions too... but you gotta have faith that they will pay off in the end! (so i'm told )

When it started to hurt auto pilot kicked in and i started to slow...but then i thought its Wednesday, this is the day its supposed to hurt...MOVE! Lol

ecoli said before about being in a race and thinking...im in good shape i can push on. If i can get that kind of mentality going for myself that'll be a nice bit of improvement.

Pacing Mule · 17-05-2015 12:19pm

Dug in very well today Madame. Delighted to see you get in sub 50.

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 12:53pm

Woohoooo!!! Thanks so much!!!!! Thank feck for pacers...the wheels nearly came off....but i managed to hold on...massive lessons learned today so glad i did it. Easily my favourite race yet...fair play sportsworld!!!!

aquinn · 17-05-2015 1:58pm

Was hoping to meet you. Well done and hope that you enjoyed it.

Bungy Girl · 17-05-2015 2:03pm

aquinn wrote: »

Was hoping to meet you. Well done and hope that you enjoyed it.

+1. Well done. So glad you're happy with your race performance, good on ya! Looking forward to the report.

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 2:13pm

I was hoping to meet you guys after. Id arranged with chickey2 to meet in the college...but the kids had run out of enthusiasm at that stage and would never have held on long enough for my chatting!!

Sure you know me bg would loved to have romped home in30 mins but sure what can you do lol. I tell you what though i couldnt have gotten anymore out of myself...theres no 'oh i should have pushed' whinging coming from me this time...i dont care about the time i did my absolute best.

Hope you guys got the results you wanted? What a superb race!!

annapr · 17-05-2015 3:29pm

Bungy Girl wrote: »

+1. Well done. So glad you're happy with your race performance, good on ya! Looking forward to the report.

another +1 here, sorry we missed you and well done

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 5:30pm

Another blooming race report

. But without a doubt my favourite one yet.

Terenure 5 mile 17 May 2015. The day it all came together

. 49:44 mins

I know looking at that time its strange to see me so delighted, its a min slower than Raheny so I should be boohooing all over the place about how slow I am, but bear with me!

pre race

Actually, pre pre race..I went to collect my race number on Fri the woman I got myt shirt from was the same woman I met in bohernabreena 2 years ago when I was huffing and puffing up the hill with the buggy. It was a surreal moment seeing her on Fri and brought me right back. I was tempted to say thanks but didn't want to be 'that' weirdo

.

Went in to the college and did a warm up attempt with my boys. If anyone saw a little kid running through all the warm up folks with his whole family chasing him Benny Hill style...that was us

Went to queue up at the start and met a friend of mine who started running after me...left him at the 35 min pacers..not jealous at all! :mad: and headed down the back. Met up with pacing mule and his family, said a quick hello. As I walked away, he says ,'what wave you going in?',. 'I'm gonna give 45 mins a crack', I shouted back. 'Nice one, go for it'. Mental note for the future... When Muler says that...it is NOT nice..DO NOT for for it!!!

.

Mile 1- 2

After all me chinwagging and yapping I forgot to turn on my watch. I run in km...this run was marked in miles. If that was raheny and I was running clueless, I would have panicked, but this time I was thinking meh 8k is 8k you don't have to mark it. First evident sign of progress. Second mark was the MC telling us to take our earphones out. I had to train for this coming up to raheny :pac: but again was thinking meh its only 8k. Progress marker no 2

Anyhow, off we went. I picked a girl a head and ran with her. Any time she was slipping away I closed the gap. We turned up towards kimmage and I was over taking people, was picking land marks and going for them. Everything from the session runs came out. If I was tiring I'd imagine if this was a whinging Wednesday, I'd have to keep going, so move now!! This is what it was all for!! Blondie was slipping away from me and I was hurting a bit too much too early, then I remembered that god awful park run I pulled out of and how I thought I was going really miserably, but when I got back and saw the splits I had actually headed out too fast. Maybe that's happening here, maybe I should just let Blondie go and get myself together a bit. If it wasn't for that park run I'd have panicked massively.

So I got myself together and picked a set of traffic lights ahead and picked up the speed, the plan was to hit the lights, maintain it for as long as poss and then ease up...but sure the hubby, the kids and Muler were at the lights so I had to give a big wave and look somewhat under control lol

so they distracted me from me plan a bit. It was passed here I really regretted the aul watch thing, I was half way up the 45 min group apparently and I was fighting hard. I was full sure there was a decent 5k there today, but its gone unrecorded!!

Mile 3-4

Crap started to go really wrong here. I started struggling. I threw everything at it. Dubgals 'this isn't really hurting' made it all go away for a while. I'd pick a landmark and go for it and hold on to ecolis words, I'm able for this I can keep going. Then I just had to slow down, people roared passed me. I didn't stop running, though the temptation was massive. Then the killer struck, a guy behind me says,' if anyone's feeling good now,go for it. I thought who the hell is feeling good at this point? I looked around, it was the sub 50 pacers! I shouted at him...noooo!!! They had caught me

I was gutted. Haahaa and had to really pull my self together to keep ahead of them.... No way were they getting passed. One guy was walking and the pacer says don't worry about him..he didn't pace it properly.. We've paced it perfectly we'll be fine..then it all started making sense, that I had gone out too fast.

Mile 4-5

I was dying! I honestly could have cried at the 4 mile mark...it all felt like it was slipping away...I was doing my best to keep ahead of the pacers but it wasn't working. Again the boss's words came into my head, its all a process and cycle after cycle we improve. So my faith in myself and my legs were restored a bit and I went back to picking land marks and scramble back sometime as much as I could.

The pacers were amazing, its supposed to hurt at this point, they were shouting. Am I hurting, I thought? Is there room for more pain? Come on then! Then i was all...im never fookin doing this again, this is muppetry on the highest level. 'Youre probably wondering why the hell youre doing this', the pacer shouts and i laughed. But at least I knew I was feeling how I should. If it hadn't been for the pacers I would have let it all slip by, but they got every ounce of fight out of me.

We turned up to fort field something and the pacer says its only 800m use everything, your arms will get your legs moving she says. I was holding on though, I was feeling so bad and my legs felt so weak, if I went now I was going to screw it up. So I hung on to 400m and then I picked two girls in front and I hunted each of them down!!!! The whole world fell away as I ran for one, then the next one!!! I was close to puking, my legs were gone there was nothing but that finish line left and I was digging so deep Australia was waving back at me !!

The reason I'm so thrilled is that I made a massive mistake at the start and at mile 3 I was feeling so bad I honestly couldnt see myself continuing. But not only did I continue, I used everything that i and the pacers had. And for what? To get the lowest time on the clock. Im not fast, but I had to really pull it out of the bag after that to get any sort of a decent time. Every day can't be a pb.

A quick catch up with Muler to cheer on his missus and we headed home. We were meant to go to the college. Would have loved to meet you lot. But son no 2 was in no form. The warm ups must have slayed him

Again, as always apologies for all the words.

Pacing Mule · 17-05-2015 5:45pm

Ha - that's it - blame me

All week you had said sub 50 was your aim. Sub 45 comment was a surprise to me lol. All I could do was encourage you

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 5:49pm

Pacing Mule wrote: »

Ha - that's it - blame me

All week you had said sub 50 was your aim. Sub 45 comment was a surprise to me lol. All I could do was encourage you

Next time drag me back and put me in the right starting point!!

menoscemo · 17-05-2015 5:57pm

Well done HS for digging in. I believe the female pacer in your report was our own Marthastew

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 6:33pm

menoscemo wrote: »

Well done HS for digging in. I believe the female pacer in your report was our own Marthastew

She was amazing Meno! It actually made me want to join a club...imagine having someone like that pushing you on...youd be haring around the place!!

Pacing Mule · 17-05-2015 6:45pm

menoscemo wrote: »

Well done HS for digging in. I believe the female pacer in your report was our own Marthastew

Sure was - and a super bang on pacer special 30 sec under goal too.

chickey2 · 17-05-2015 7:19pm

Well done! Great report. I was glad to see you smiling as you approached the finish line!

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 7:30pm

chickey2 wrote: »

Well done! Great report. I was glad to see you smiling as you approached the finish line!

I'd say it was more a grimace C

. At least I hope I wasn't smiling... There must have been more pain to have been had in that case!

. You should have come over!

Did i tell you i saw you on the course? On a corner of a road somewhere...I can't remember which lap it was...presumably the first. I couldn't shout though

chickey2 · 17-05-2015 7:52pm

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I'd say it was more a grimace C . At least I hope I wasn't smiling... There must have been more pain to have been had in that case! . You should have come over!

Did i tell you i saw you on the course? On a corner of a road somewhere...I can't remember which lap it was...presumably the first. I couldn't shout though

Ah, I missed you on the first lap, I was looking out for you but didn't see you. I saw you just before the finish but lost you somewhere in the funnel.

Hannibal Smith · 17-05-2015 7:58pm

chickey2 wrote: »

Ah, I missed you on the first lap, I was looking out for you but didn't see you. I saw you just before the finish but lost you somewhere in the funnel.

Did you go to the college after? Were many boardsies there?

I love it when a plan comes together

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