General publics perception of german shepherds

jopax

Heckler wrote: »

Never owned a dog but think GS are a beautiful breed. I don't think i'd ever trust a large dog fully though. Small breeds either but the potential for major harm is so much bigger with a big dog.

Probably irrational but i've seen (very well trained) king charles bite at their long time owners. Always down to possession of food or an object not just random but still. An animal is wild by nature and should always be treated as such.

People who leave babies and young children alone with even the smallest dogs or even cats are irresponsible IMO.

Sure I'm gonna get the babies rolling around on the floor with the Great Dane etc stories and its all fine. If that works for you no worries.

I just wanted to say I have a gsd and two young children.
My gsd is very gentle with the kids and i would trust her as much as any dog could be trusted.
I agree totally with you regarding children and dogs. I would never leave my youngest who is two alone with our gsd, even if its only for a second.
If a dog growls at a child that young the child can't understand that its a warning like an adult would. So if anything happened its not the child's fault as they are too young to understand and it's not the dogs fault either as she is only an animal.
Therefore its my responsibility as a parent and dog owner to be aware of the dangers and take precautions that it doesnt happen.

Zapperzy

Would I be right in saying the hard men types have moved on to other breeds, and these breeds are now the 'bad' breeds of today (rotties, bull breeds and akitas). The gsd has had a few years to recover it's reputation and people have forgotten it was once one of those ''naturally aggressive'' dogs that eat children for breakfast. I'm even starting to see people soften a bit towards rotties and staffies, whereas akitas which are relatively new in this country are very much the kiddy eaters of new, I'v even heard a lot of vets and nurses refer to them as having an unpredictable nasty streak. Do these things come in cycles?

The grandparents have a huge male gsd from working lines (security and sniffer dogs), he's easily 40kg plus. Absolute sweetheart of a dog but not for the inexperienced owner. If he doesn't get enough exercise or stimulation he will chase his tail and chew it out of frustration.

Timberrrrrrrr

Have an 8 month old GSD that i got out of a well known dog rescue. She is SUPER protective of my 3 year old lad and to watch the 2 of them running around the fields is great to watch, The dog lies on the floor while my young lad uses the dog as a pillow. He jumps on her climbs on her and grabs her by the ear to "walk her" and she doesn't bat an eyelid. When i got the dog the mother in law got on the phone and gave out to me asking why the hell would i get an "attack dog" with a young lad in the house. This same woman was sat n the sofa last month with the dog stretched out next to her and head on her lap. GSD get bad press because a lot of peoples perception of them is as police dogs and therefore attack dogs.

Vel

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

, The dog lies on the floor while my young lad uses the dog as a pillow. He jumps on her climbs on her and grabs her by the ear to "walk her" and she doesn't bat an eyelid.

Why on earth would you allow your child to do that to the dog? You are putting the dog in an awful position and if something were to happen, the dog would be getting the blame even though you are at fault for allowing your child to maul your dog. I just can't believe you would allow that. It is completely unfair on your dog.

I have two dogs and three children and it has been drummed into the kids as early as possible that they were never to harass the dogs. They are as bomb proof as can be around our dogs but I would always be vigilant and never put my kids or the dogs in a situation where something could happen.

If the rescue you got him from was in any way reputable I would imagine they would be very unhappy to hear this

Narsil

We have an almost 5 year old white GSD called Ghost and he's just a big, super friendly, goofy boy! He lives with 3 cats and just loves everything in life. We brought him everywhere as a puppy though so he was exposed to everyone and everything, all other dogs, horses, cats, children etc. GSD's are so intelligent and pick up things very fast. This is one of the many things I love about the breed!

Timberrrrrrrr

Vel wrote: »

Why on earth would you allow your child to do that to the dog? You are putting the dog in an awful position and if something were to happen, the dog would be getting the blame even though you are at fault for allowing your child to maul your dog. I just can't believe you would allow that. It is completely unfair on your dog.

I have two dogs and three children and it has been drummed into the kids as early as possible that they were never to harass the dogs. They are as bomb proof as can be around our dogs but I would always be vigilant and never put my kids or the dogs in a situation where something could happen.

If the rescue you got him from was in any way reputable I would imagine they would be very unhappy to hear this

The same dog pins my young lad to the ground by sitting on him, Trust me i have been around dogs all my life and i would in no way let my young lad be rough with the dog. When i say "jumps on" i don't mean jumps on literally same when i say "grabs her ear" he is not GRABBING her ear and pulling her around the room.

Karen91

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

The dog lies on the floor while my young lad uses the dog as a pillow. He jumps on her climbs on her and grabs her by the ear to "walk her" and she doesn't bat an eyelid


You are seriously playing with fire letting your child do that to the dog, a dog is not a toy they are living things with feelings, and it is so unfair to put your dog in that situation. She may tolerate it now but maybe one day she will have enough and snap, and its the poor the dog that will get the blame and end up being destroyed.

Larger breeds are obviously more tolerant than small breeds such as the toy group, if this was done to my Pomeranian she would snap for sure.

Its cruel what your doing to your dog, your letting your child treat her like a toy. I am sure the rescue you got her from would be very unhappy if they knew.

Oink

I would trust GSDs more than some other breeds. That's purely subjective. I would trust most dogs whose owner is not a muppet.

Also, I just plain like them. They're nice dogs. However I also have a healthy respect for anything that could kill me if it had a reason. That's a good thing.

If I was getting a dog, I would happily get a GSD.

Timberrrrrrrr

Sigh

This is why i stay away from the pet forums, the more militant posters tend to jump on the slightest thing and run with it and it drives people away simply because it's so easy to get lambasted by people who know nothing about you or your pet but by god they know it all because of the books they have read :rolleyes:

Does this look like an unhappy dog?

roadsmart

Ahhhh, look at the little pup on the trampoline.












And the Alsatian beside it.:D

Karen91

People will jump when you write things that make it sound like your letting the child treat the dog like a toy, I had to buy a Rough Collie from distant relatives a few months ago, they let the children swing and drag off her untiil she had enough and she snapped bruising one of the children, the immediate reaction from them was the dog was wrong and it should be put down. I managed to talk them into selling the dog to me and my parents have given her a good home.

I apologise if I offended you but I was going by what you posted Timberrrrrrrr and it sounded like the exact situation I have just mentioned with the collie I bought from the relatives.

Timberrrrrrrr

Karen91 wrote: »

People will jump when you write things that make it sound like your letting the child treat the dog like a toy, I had to buy a Rough Collie from distant relatives a few months ago, they let the children swing and drag off her untiil she had enough and she snapped bruising one of the children, the immediate reaction from them was the dog was wrong and it should be put down. I managed to talk them into selling the dog to me and my parents have given her a good home.

I apologise if I offended you but I was going by what you posted Timberrrrrrrr and it sounded like the exact situation I have just mentioned with the collie I bought from the relatives.

Understand fully where you are coming from, I took a labrador off a guy in a prk before because i saw him kicking it, I had that dog for years and believe me i am the last person who would allow an animal get mistreated in any way.

DforDisaster

Any of the German Shepherds I've been met have been really lovely. One elderly one in particular, she was definitely the biggest GSD I've ever met, and a pure dote. I love the expressiveness of their faces!

Barring the ones that you see that clearly haven't been given the training and time they need, but then again I would feel that way about a dog of any size, I would never have thought of them as particularly scary...

Vel

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sigh

This is why i stay away from the pet forums, the more militant posters tend to jump on the slightest thing and run with it and it drives people away simply because it's so easy to get lambasted by people who know nothing about you or your pet but by god they know it all because of the books they have read :rolleyes:

Well I don't consider it slight to let a child maul a dog who could potentially kill it if things got out of hand and then the dog put down, so if that's militant, then I can live with that!

I reacted to what you posted but I was somehow supposed to know that what you wrote wasn't actaully what you meant?

Great if its all working out for you now. What about when your pup gets older and your kid gets stronger? I personally wouldn't let my kids, one of whom looks about your kid's age lie on my dogs like that, nor would I allow them to pull ears, however gently. Kids like dogs are unpredictable. For example, what happens if your dog gets a sore ear one day and the kid decides that day to pull it?

Sorry but I am unable to see how your dog feels from photographs. The only way I would be able to tell how comfortable/uncomfortable they are would be to see how they react in person.

I think anyone allowing their child to hang out of their dogs is playing with fire personally, and I would much rather be safe than sorry. Kids don't need to be allowed to do the kind of things you described in your first post. They aren't missing out by being stopped from doing these things. And I'm not saying kids shouldn't interact with the dogs they live with but letting them do what you described is asking for trouble.

Timberrrrrrrr

Vel wrote: »

Well I don't consider it slight to let a child maul a dog who could potentially kill it if things got out of hand and then the dog put down, so if that's militant, then I can live with that!

Sigh


As i said.......Militant posts


Show me where i said the child "MAULS" the dog.

I reacted to what you posted but I was somehow supposed to know that what you wrote wasn't actaully what you meant?

React? Sure.......Over react? No.

Great if its all working out for you now. What about when your pup gets older and your kid gets stronger? I personally wouldn't let my kids, one of whom looks about your kid's age lie on my dogs like that, nor would I allow them to pull ears, however gently. Kids like dogs are unpredictable. For example, what happens if your dog gets a sore ear one day and the kid decides that day to pull it?

As i said, You know nothing of me, my kid or my dog and the training she has had or will get. I have had dogs all my life (over 40 years) so i think i will go with my own experience rather than yours.

Sorry but I am unable to see how your dog feels from photographs. The only way I would be able to tell how comfortable/uncomfortable they are would be to see how they react in person.

Well we will just have to agree to disagree i suppose.

I think anyone allowing their child to hang out of their dogs is playing with fire personally, and I would much rather be safe than sorry. Kids don't need to be allowed to do the kind of things you described in your first post. They aren't missing out by being stopped from doing these things. And I'm not saying kids shouldn't interact with the dogs they live with but letting them do what you described is asking for trouble.

Again as i said you have taken what i said LITERALLY and ran with it, If i thought for one second that the dog was not happy then i would stop them from playing, From being around dogs all my life i can safely say i know when a dog is having fun and mine has plenty of it with the games she plays with my son.

jopax

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Sigh

This is why i stay away from the pet forums, the more militant posters tend to jump on the slightest thing and run with it and it drives people away simply because it's so easy to get lambasted by people who know nothing about you or your pet but by god they know it all because of the books they have read :rolleyes:



Does this look like an unhappy dog?

I just wanted to say I think your dog looks very content and happy there.
I wouldn't see anything wrong there at all, the only point I would make is that I wouldn't leave them unsupervised just in case anything happened.
Im not trying to imply that you do leave them alone either.
Its lovely to see the two of them together and they obviously have a strong bond.
I think your dog is very lucky to have a home with yee.

Karen91

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Understand fully where you are coming from, I took a labrador off a guy in a prk before because i saw him kicking it, I had that dog for years and believe me i am the last person who would allow an animal get mistreated in any way.

She is a beautifull dog

I don't know why people have such a bad attitude towards German Shepards. My OH really wants one and has been looking into it for a long time and when he mentioned it to the family his sister had a tantrum and gave us a big lecture about her not visiting if we got one because she would fear for the safety of her baby.

VonVix

DBB wrote: »

As for GSDs with kids, there are some lines of GSDs that you just have to be careful with. But a good GSD is a very special animal in many different ways.

This struck me, can you elaborate a little by what you have to be careful with? Health wise or mentally wise?

paulmclaughlin

VonVix wrote: »

This struck me, can you elaborate a little by what you have to be careful with? Health wise or mentally wise?

German Shepherds tend to suffer from hip and elbow dysplasia.

Breeders of straight-backed German Shepherds have the hips and elbows scored of the sire and dame, giving a view of how healthy their hips and elbows are and through that, how healthy their offspring's will likely be.

Breeders of show-line German Shepherds aim for a sloping back to give a visually enhanced trot (apparently) but this has the side-effect of increasing the chances of dysplasia. It is very frowned upon among German Shepherd enthusiasts, earning them the nickname as 'frogdogs'.

Rips

'Rescued' is my favourite breed, but German Shepherds rank top among those!

I think pedigree breeding is ruining them unfortunately, and not just health wise, most of the GSD's I've known personally have been strays or rescues, including my own, who I would consider to have a very 'classic' temperament, in as much as you can stereotype a breed's nature. While I'm sure they are as near as you would get to 'purebred' if not, they were still mongrels, in the respect that they were backyard bred, not inbred or overbred.

For the sake of argument, my dog had a very bad background and he was nervous when he first came in, but within 2/3hrs he copped on to the situation and never looked back.

The GSDs I meet though work, that are papered, bred commercially or bred from showing lines especially, a huge number are inherently nervous cringy dogs. Many of these have been in loving knowledgeable homes from pups, so its not the fault of nurture or environment. They are still inherently more forgiving and trainable then nervous dogs of other natures, and I still have an affinity for them but its an awful shame.

Some of them I would even describe as slightly neurotic, always pacing, can't sit still, tongue lolling all the time, certainly not relaxed, and not tuned in at all. Very 'high energy', which is not IMO typical.
The more 'typical' in aesthetic appearance towards the show standard (slighter, narrower, taller, more rounded backs, longer eared and long narrow faces) the more neurotic they are.

I have to say I've never met a white one with the solid shepherd temperament I've become accustomed too either, although I haven't met any neurotic ones, either. The white ones I've met have all still been a little bit nervy, just not as confidant and relaxed as your typical shepherd.

If I was to go about getting another say (I wouldn't be buying a puppy in any case) it would be a 'shepherd' of illegitimate breeding!

Rips

Genghis Cant wrote: »

My general perception of the breed is nervy, narrow, hump backed yokes hardly fit for purpose.

I see you have met a few of the same that I have then :pac:

DBB

Timberrrrr and Vel, leave it there now, because the bickering is ruining this thread.
Timberrrr, I'm sure you know at this stage that you should report posts that you're having trouble with, instead of taking matter into your own hands.
Thanks,
DBB

DBB

Now with mod hat off, Timberrrr... were the rescue able to show you papers or other provenance for your dog? I ask because she looks very, very much more like a Malinois (Belgian Shepherd) to me than she does a GSD
What you've described of her behaviour also sounds more BSD than GSD!

DBB

VonVix wrote: »

This struck me, can you elaborate a little by what you have to be careful with? Health wise or mentally wise?

Because of this...

Genghis Cant wrote: »

My general perception of the breed is nervy, narrow, hump backed yokes hardly fit for purpose.

and this...

paulmclaughlin wrote: »

German Shepherds tend to suffer from hip and elbow dysplasia.

Breeders of straight-backed German Shepherds have the hips and elbows scored of the sire and dame, giving a view of how healthy their hips and elbows are and through that, how healthy their offspring's will likely be.

Breeders of show-line German Shepherds aim for a sloping back to give a visually enhanced trot (apparently) but this has the side-effect of increasing the chances of dysplasia. It is very frowned upon among German Shepherd enthusiasts, earning them the nickname as 'frogdogs'.

and this...

Rips wrote: »

Some of them I would even describe as slightly neurotic, always pacing, can't sit still, tongue lolling all the time, certainly not relaxed, and not tuned in at all. Very 'high energy', which is not IMO typical.
The more 'typical' in aesthetic appearance towards the show standard (slighter, narrower, taller, more rounded backs, longer eared and long narrow faces) the more neurotic they are.

So, for me it's both health AND mental-wise!
As I said earlier in the thread, a good GSD is a wonderful creature, but there are a fair few of them out there that are nervous, jumpy, twitchy, and unpredictable, and whilst without doubt this is influenced by their upbringing, there is most certainly a big genetic component to it. The fella who Borderlinemeath refers to as coming into the vets with his show GSD on a choke chain, has produced some of the most nervous and unpleasant GSDs I've ever met, yet his main show-line, whilst horrible to look at if you're into the healthier straight-back (they also have rampant skin problems), are generally nice enough temperament-wise.
When I meet a GSD that shrinks back from people, my heart sinks. It's so not what the breed is meant to be

fishfoodie

Well my family maintain that I was raised by a GSD :eek:

When I was about 4yo a new neighbor moved in with a beautiful long haired GSD bitch, & she adopted me. Every day I'd come home from school & she'd be waiting for me with her front feet up on the back garden wall; I'd clamber over it & play with her until I got called in for dinner.

Needless to say I've loved GSD's since !

flutered

been dealing with them for 40 years, never had a bother with them, i have found that the bitches are more obediant than the dogs, we had a rottie some time back which the kids used as both a pillow and a horse, she used to walk around thhe house with a nipper on her back, one other major factor, the people repesented by pavee point have great respect for them.

RoadhouseBlues

I wouldn't be a big dog lover myself. Dogs don't seem to like me. I think they sense that I'm wary of them. My cousin when he was 2 pulled the tail of a german shepherd while he was eating. I know. A dangerous thing to do. The dog turned on him and caught his head in his jaws. There was a fecker used to torture me when I was walking or cycling too. So I would be bit scared of them. Although in saying that, I'm sure most of them are grand. Its more my issues I think:-). I wouldn't accuse an owner of being a hard man though. Maybe with other breeds.

Timberrrrrrrr

DBB wrote: »

Now with mod hat off, Timberrrr... were the rescue able to show you papers or other provenance for your dog? I ask because she looks very, very much more like a Malinois (Belgian Shepherd) to me than she does a GSD
What you've described of her behaviour also sounds more BSD than GSD!

No papers, went in one rainy Sunday "for a look" and walked out on Wednesday with a dog . They said German shepherd cross but didn't know what she is a cross of, didn't really care, fell for her straight away and only for the voice of reason (Mrs T) was there i would have had her sister and brother home as well.

DBB

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

No papers, went in one rainy Sunday "for a look" and walked out on Wednesday with a dog . They said German shepherd cross but didn't know what she is a cross of, didn't really care, fell for her straight away and only for the voice of reason (Mrs T) was there i would have had her sister and brother home as well.

There's one thing there's no doubt about, and that is she's gorgeous!
The fact that she looks more malinois than GSD has positive implications in that the BSD is not a restricted breed (although Dublin City Council interpret the law that BSDs are a strain of GSDs... They're not. In fact it seems they predate the GSD).
I would love to see them being challenged on it in court... The wardens up my way have done their research into breeds and don't interpret the law as DCC does, and this seems to be the case in most other counties. The way the warden here explained it to me was that they wanted to be able to do as DCC, but realised, try as they might, that they hadn't a leg to stand on with it.

Timberrrrrrrr

DBB wrote: »

There's one thing there's no doubt about, and that is she's gorgeous!
The fact that she looks more malinois than GSD has positive implications in that the BSD is not a restricted breed (although Dublin City Council interpret the law that BSDs are a strain of GSDs... They're not. In fact it seems they predate the GSD).
I would love to see them being challenged on it in court... The wardens up my way have done their research into breeds and don't interpret the law as DCC does, and this seems to be the case in most other counties. The way the warden here explained it to me was that they wanted to be able to do as DCC, but realised, try as they might, that they hadn't a leg to stand on with it.

She hates her muzzle and i only put it on here if we are heading to Malahide castle or the beach otherwise she goes into the car (loves the car ) and we get to the unused football fields near us, they are fully fenced in and as soon as she sees the gates she gets crazy excited because she knows she can run free for the next hour and also that there are (usually) other dogs there for her to play with, ALL she wants to do is run.