Ballygunner St. Mary's Primary School Junior Infants intake

reni10

Does anyone know what is going on in Ballygunner Primary school with offering new students places there for next year?

Ballygunner is the biggest co-ed primary school in Waterford I believe and take in 3 classes of Junior Infants each year with is approx 90 students.

This year I am hearing that there are NO places being offered to any students who do not already have a sibling in the school no matter how long their name has been down for!

If this is true it seems like a ridiculous situation as anyone who would have been expecting to have their child enrolled in Ballygunner will now probably not be able to get them into any other school in the area as now it is way too late to enroll them and get a place in another school!

The whole enrolment process in schools seems to be all over the place with difference schools having different rules and policies and this is ending up with people not getting a place at all for their children in a school anywhere within a 5-10 miles radius!

Anyone have any experience of this and are any of the City Counsellors doing anything about this????

sillysocks

I'm not sure if this helps but I got a letter about two weeks ago asking me to reply if I was still interested in a place for next Sept for my daughter. We don't have other children in the school. I don't think the letter was the offer of a place but they'd hardly bother even sending them out if no one was going to be offered a place. We didn't need the place anymore so let them know and presume I won't hear any more.

reni10

sillysocks wrote: »

I'm not sure if this helps but I got a letter about two weeks ago asking me to reply if I was still interested in a place for next Sept for my daughter. We don't have other children in the school. I don't think the letter was the offer of a place but they'd hardly bother even sending them out if no one was going to be offered a place. We didn't need the place anymore so let them know and presume I won't hear any more.

This letter is just standard procedure I believe as everyone who put their Childs name down received this letter as it is just actually an expression of interest in a place at the school.

The thing that I feel is wrong about the Ballygunner school policy this:

The School is primarily for people who live in the surrounding areas of the parish catchment so it is easy to educate your children in that same parish.

The policy is if you have a sibling in the school already you get the place ahead of anyone else.

Now for a number of years they were were not filling the 90 places with people who had siblings already in the school and children from the catchment parish so they took in people from outside the parish which is fair enough when they have spaces available.

But now there are NO spaces available for people who do not have siblings already in the school so that means that someone who does NOT live in the catchment parish who had their child accepted 3 years ago and has had another 3 children since then will all get the place over and above all the other children who don't have siblings in the school but DO live in the catchment parish.

That to me is wrong as these other people outside the parish all should have other options in their own parishes so the preference should always be to have the children of the parish with siblings as first priority then then children who live in the catchment parish followed by children who have siblings in the school from outside the parish!

Looks like there are going to be a lot of angry and disappointed Parents this year with how Ballygunner School are handling this...

barneystinson

reni10 wrote: »

This letter is just standard procedure I believe as everyone who put their Childs name down received this letter as it is just actually an expression of interest in a place at the school.

The thing that I feel is wrong about the Ballygunner school policy this:

The School is primarily for people who live in the surrounding areas of the parish catchment so it is easy to educate your children in that same parish.

The policy is if you have a sibling in the school already you get the place ahead of anyone else.

Now for a number of years they were were not filling the 90 places with people who had siblings already in the school and children from the catchment parish so they took in people from outside the parish which is fair enough when they have spaces available.

But now there are NO spaces available for people who do not have siblings already in the school so that means that someone who does NOT live in the catchment parish who had their child accepted 3 years ago and has had another 3 children since then will all get the place over and above all the other children who don't have siblings in the school but DO live in the catchment parish.

That to me is wrong as these other people outside the parish all should have other options in their own parishes so the preference should always be to have the children of the parish with siblings as first priority then then children who live in the catchment parish followed by children who have siblings in the school from outside the parish!

Looks like there are going to be a lot of angry and disappointed Parents this year with how Ballygunner School are handling this...

So are you saying that people with a child in the school already, should be told tough sh1t when they try to enroll the younger siblings in the school?

reni10

barneystinson wrote: »

So are you saying that people with a child in the school already, should be told tough sh1t when they try to enroll the younger siblings in the school?

If those younger children are not from the Parish then yes!

People in the parish should be the ones benefitting from the school firstly and only then secondarily if there is room people from outside the parish otherwise what is the point in having a parish catchment area at all?

So what you have now is children coming in from lets say the Dunmore parish taking a place in Ballygunner because their sibling was taken in there when there was not full demand from the Ballygunner parish and then you have people in the Ballygunner Parish having to look at schools and hope to get a place in a Dunmore parish school, that seems totally wrong to me and completely against what a parish school is there for.

Coatsalcarrot

We hoped my eldest child would be attending ballygunner in 2015, unfortunately they didn't get a place, and we can't seem to get a place in other schools as we are not in the catchment area for those???
This is totally unacceptable. What are we supposed to do now?

deisemum

Have Ballygunner actually offered the places for next year already? When my children went there offers weren't sent out until well after Christmas. Everyone on the list had to re-apply if still interested in applying before Christmas so the school had an up to date list to work off before offering places.

reni10

All places have been offered in Ballygunner school for next year and there were no places offered I believe to anyone who did not already have a sibling in the school.

That is a pretty ridiculous situation as you have people from outside the catchment area being offered places so that to me is NOT serving the catchment area at all!

They do not seem to care in there either even though they must have pretty much known for the last year at least that this would happen and did not let anyone know or change the admission policy to make sure people of the parish catchment area were offered places first!

I don't know what people are supposed to do when you apply to the biggest primary school in Waterford and live in the catchment area and can't get a place, one of the main reasons we decided to live in the area was because of the school catchment area!

This needs to be sorted out by the department of education but I doubt they care either...

Coatsalcarrot

Yes, that was also one of the reasons we chose to live in that catchment area.
Now my child has no place anywhere.....even though children from outside the catchment area have a place because of siblings and I have also heard that some children who have places are a lot younger than my child...
May need to contact local TD....

kayevajo

Most schools policy is firstly teachers children then siblings are next. If this policy fills the criteria , in fairness there is nothing the school can do. As it's a mixed school you are going to have a higher % of siblings going there.
Plus there is plenty of schools in that area. St declans , John of god , newtown , ursuline and waterpark.
Surely between all these schools all people in that are of the city can get their kids in somewhere.

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

If those younger children are not from the Parish then yes!

People in the parish should be the ones benefitting from the school firstly and only then secondarily if there is room people from outside the parish otherwise what is the point in having a parish catchment area at all?

So what you have now is children coming in from lets say the Dunmore parish taking a place in Ballygunner because their sibling was taken in there when there was not full demand from the Ballygunner parish and then you have people in the Ballygunner Parish having to look at schools and hope to get a place in a Dunmore parish school, that seems totally wrong to me and completely against what a parish school is there for.

Afaik
ballygunner doesn't have parish rule. Only school in this area that does in St. John of god. And at that a lot of parents just put down different address' when applying there and change it to their own one after the child is in the school for a period of time

sillysocks

If Ballygunner is full I'd imagine the problem will be that most people only put the child's name down in Ballygunner assuming they'd get a place because it's so big. I'd guess then most of the other schools you mention also have waiting lists that the children aren't on now so it's less likely they'd get into them. For most schools around you'd have to have the child's name down very shortly after they're born to get a place.

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

This letter is just standard procedure I believe as everyone who put their Childs name down received this letter as it is just actually an expression of interest in a place at the school.

The thing that I feel is wrong about the Ballygunner school policy this:

The School is primarily for people who live in the surrounding areas of the parish catchment so it is easy to educate your children in that same parish.

The policy is if you have a sibling in the school already you get the place ahead of anyone else.

Now for a number of years they were were not filling the 90 places with people who had siblings already in the school and children from the catchment parish so they took in people from outside the parish which is fair enough when they have spaces available.

But now there are NO spaces available for people who do not have siblings already in the school so that means that someone who does NOT live in the catchment parish who had their child accepted 3 years ago and has had another 3 children since then will all get the place over and above all the other children who don't have siblings in the school but DO live in the catchment parish.

That to me is wrong as these other people outside the parish all should have other options in their own parishes so the preference should always be to have the children of the parish with siblings as first priority then then children who live in the catchment parish followed by children who have siblings in the school from outside the parish!

Looks like there are going to be a lot of angry and disappointed Parents this year with how Ballygunner School are handling this...[/quote

Parents should have known the policy before they enrolled their child.surely there's nothing the school can do if the siblings take the places

You can hardly expect the school to tell parents little Mary can't come where her brother Johnny is because people are angry?

kayevajo

sillysocks wrote: »

If Ballygunner is full I'd imagine the problem will be that most people only put the child's name down in Ballygunner assuming they'd get a place because it's so big. I'd guess then most of the other schools you mention also have waiting lists that the children aren't on now so it's less likely they'd get into them. For most schools around you'd have to have the child's name down very shortly after they're born to get a place.

I had my son's name down less than 12 hours after he was born!!

Coatsalcarrot

Unfortunately we moved to the area when my child was around 18 months old, so we were not in a position to put their name down from conception/birth.
Finger crossed they get a place in a good school, but we are at the bottom of all the waiting lists.

reni10

If little Mary and her family are from Dunmore or Passage or Faithlegg and brother Johnny is already going to Ballygunner then I think it is quiet fair to expect little Mary to go to her local school instead of Ballygunner if they don't have enough space for the children of the Ballygunner parish!

Little Johnny and his parents should have been told from the outset that the children of the catchment parish will come first and only then if there is room will little Mary be able to also get a place.
I think if this was the policy then those parents can either take their chances or do what they should be doing which is have all their kids in their own parish school.

This just makes a complete mockery of the whole parish school system...

The problem now is going to be the knock on effect of let's say 100 children in the Ballygunner parish not getting into Ballygunner which is the biggest primary school around and all the other schools in the area favour people of their own parish.

Where does that leave these 100 children?

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

If little Mary and her family are from Dunmore or Passage or Faithlegg and brother Johnny is already going to Ballygunner then I think it is quiet fair to expect little Mary to go to her local school instead of Ballygunner if they don't have enough space for the children of the Ballygunner parish!

Little Johnny and his parents should have been told from the outset that the children of the catchment parish will come first and only then if there is room will little Mary be able to also get a place.
I think if this was the policy then those parents can either take their chances or do what they should be doing which is have all their kids in their own parish school.

This just makes a complete mockery of the whole parish school system...

The problem now is going to be the knock on effect of let's say 100 children in the Ballygunner parish not getting into Ballygunner which is the biggest primary school around and all the other schools in the area favour people of their own parish.

Where does that leave these 100 children?

So u would expect their parents to drop one child out the country and come in and drop other to Ballygunner? Would u do that?

The policy is there for a reasons.
And any lobbying of td s or councillors won't make any difference they won't get involved on school politics

reni10

kayevajo wrote: »

So u would expect their parents to drop one child out the country and come in and drop other to Ballygunner? Would u do that?

The policy is there for a reasons.
And any lobbying of td s or councillors won't make any difference they won't get involved on school politics

I would expect them to have their children in their own parish school first and foremost like the people of Ballygunner parish are trying to do!

If they don't want that then they take their chances with having to do 2 drops!

To put this into perspective Waterpark have 30 places on offer and 200 on the waiting list and that was before this ridiculous situation with Ballygunner refusing another 100 children.

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

I would expect them to have their children in their own parish school first and foremost like the people of Ballygunner parish are trying to do!

If they don't want that then they take their chances with having to do 2 drops!

To put this into perspective Waterpark have 30 places on offer and 200 on the waiting list and that was before this ridiculous situation with Ballygunner refusing another 100

As I said policy there for a reason, all schools have the same policy regarding siblings. Parish rule doesn't apply in Ballygunner. And it would be up to the board of management to change that. I would be very sur prised if that happened any time soon

reni10

kayevajo wrote: »

Afaik
ballygunner doesn't have parish rule. Only school in this area that does in St. John of god. And at that a lot of parents just put down different address' when applying there and change it to their own one after the child is in the school for a period of time

Ballygunner and pretty much all the schools in the area have the parish rule, here is the Ballygunner policy and at number 3 is the parish rule.

I think it should have been amended having number 2 as being siblings of existing pupils that are in the parish then the parish and then siblings who live outside the parish.


Admission Criteria
1. Children of school staff
2. Brothers & sisters of pupils
3. Children whose principal residence is in the Parish

If the numbers of children who satisfy any of the above criteria exceed the number of places available, places will be allocated in the following order:
a) Children who are baptised Catholics
b) Order of registration of names

kayevajo

They do have parish rule , I stand corrected.
But the order they take kids in , is the right one IMO

reni10

I take it you are a person that is from outside the Ballygunner parish Kayevajo?

And you prefer to educate your own children outside your parish?

All schools have the parish rule which basically puts everyone else to the bottom on the pile and now with lots of people not getting into Ballygunner it is going to cause some mess...

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

I take it you are a person that is from outside the Ballygunner parish Kayevajo?

And you prefer to educate your own children outside your parish?

All schools have the parish rule which basically puts everyone else to the bottom on the pile and now with lots of people not getting into Ballygunner it is going to cause some mess...

All schools don't have the parish rule.
The 2 biggest primary schools in waterford after Ballygunner don't use it. St declans and the ursuline. Afaik
If you start telling parents there is a change of policy , then u have a huge mess. The policy works, that's why it's there

reni10

In my mind the policy does not work if you have people from a parish school not being able to get into it!

You did not answer my question about being from outside the Ballygunner parish?

Also both of the other schools you mention are not coed schools so would mean 2 drops if you had a boy and a girl...

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

In my pind the policy does not work if you have people from a parish school not being able to get into it!

You did not answer my question about being from outside the Ballygunner parish?

Where I live or send my children to school is irrelevant as I'm still entitled to an opinion.
But there is plenty of schools in that catchment are a.
I would safely say that vast majority of children in St declans and John of god are in Ballygunner parish

evolving_doors

At this stage OP its a case of shoulda/woulda/coulda, the policy can't be amended retrospectively (unless dept. of ed makes a change!).

Only advice I can give is to play the long game and plan for secondary school.
Where do most ballygunner primary go?
Is there other feeder primary schools that go there too (then plan to get the child in there).
Would you consider moving house!
Talk to the secondary school you want , you may find the numbers to be also full of siblings or students from ballygunner. This might also preclude you from 'coming back' to the area! if the child doesn't get into a feeder school.

Despite what people say, any policy is never going to be 'fair' (unless its a complete 100% lottery system).

Im not familiar with the area but its the same issue up and down the country. (Ive been there).

At the same time too you could get lucky as a lot of hopping around can go on in August/Sept. For that reason I'd be carefull about prepping a child for a certain school and start telling them that theyre very good at mixing and making new friends. If they are going to be leaving friends behind from the preschool/creche to go to a different area then maybe consider summer camps in the area, that way the transition mightnt be so bad (depends in the nature of the child of course.)

reni10

kayevajo wrote: »

Where I live or send my children to school is irrelevant as I'm still entitled to an opinion.
But there is plenty of schools in that catchment are a.
I would safely say that vast majority of children in St declans and John of god are in Ballygunner parish

You are entitled to your opinion that is for sure but I think it is relevant if the policy is favouring you or not and if it is then you are obviously from outside the parish as I could not imagine anyone from inside the Ballygunner parish thinking it was fair if it meant their kids were not able to go to their own parish school.

It might all be too late now but this needs to be highlighted otherwise what is the point in having any parish rules at all in any schools?

The reason for a school in an area I would have thought is so that the people of that area can benefit from it and they are also usually involved in the other parts of that community too with sports clubs etc. but when you have people from outside the parish they are less inclined to also be members of other local to the school communities which again is not great for that community as a whole...
That is my opinion...

kayevajo

reni10 wrote: »

You are entitled to your opinion that is for sure but I think it is relevant if the policy is favouring you or not and if it is then you are obviously from outside the parish as I could not imagine anyone from inside the Ballygunner parish thinking it was fair if it meant their kids were not able to go to their own parish school.

It might all be too late now but this needs to be highlighted otherwise what is the point in having any parish rules at all in any schools?

The reason for a school in an area I would have thought is so that the people of that area can benefit from it and they are also usually involved in the other parts of that community too with sports clubs etc. but when you have people from outside the parish they are less inclined to also be members of other local to the school communities which again is not great for that community as a whole...
That is my opinion...

I totally get ure point but I would guess that the vast majority of pupils in the school are in the parish anyway. Even if they did change the policy there would still be pupils that would not get in due to the vast size of that parish.

But there are plenty of brilliant schools in that part of town also. Including a gaelscoil accross the road. Only option would be to build on the school and make it bigger.
But I would also think it wouldn't be fair to ask parents to split their kids up because of a policy change.

reni10

kayevajo wrote: »

I totally get ure point but I would guess that the vast majority of pupils in the school are in the parish anyway. Even if they did change the policy there would still be pupils that would not get in due to the vast size of that parish.

But there are plenty of brilliant schools in that part of town also. Including a gaelscoil accross the road. Only option would be to build on the school and make it bigger.
But I would also think it wouldn't be fair to ask parents to split their kids up because of a policy change.

The Gaelscoil is also full and their admission policy is different in that they don't have a parish policy and also favour older children...

If there is that demand in the area then as you say they need to build further classrooms but that is not going to fix anything in the short term and with this current age of austerity it is unlikely...

deisemum

The parish rule has been in Ballygunner for a couple of decades. The parish rule doesn't entitle your child to a place in a specific school when there are other primary schools in the parish.

There are plenty of parents who drop their son to one school and daughter to another school.

As for a sense of community there are children from Ballygunner going to school in the likes of St. Declans but play for Ballygunner.

Having sent children to Ballygunner I can tell you it's "good" reputation is way over-hyped and if I had young children starting school again I'd send them elsewhere.

Newtown Junior has just built an extension and it's a small school with very good teachers. It doesn't have a parish rule.

HarryHump

Its not all siblings who have gotten in. I know of a child who has no siblings, is not even in the parish and who has been offered a place for next year ahead of children who applied over 6 months before them!

That selection criteria they say they have is bull. The priority criteria should begin with 'Who you know'!

Our kids are also in Ballygunner, our first getting in on the second round of offers a few years back. But I agree with others who say there are better schools out there.