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NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Peter Casey submitted his nomination papers to returning officer Fintan Murphy in Castlebar this afternoon for the four seat Midlands-Northwest constituency which takes in all of Connacht as well as Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan and several counties in Leinster.

    His comments on FTTH for rural Ireland
    On the topic of rural broadband, he says the Government "doesn't have a clue" about the best way to provide universal internet access.

    He contends that it is impractical to bring fibre connectivity to every home in Ireland. Instead, he's advocating the use of 5G technology to meet the demand for high speed internet access.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2019/0411/1042095-european-elections/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,555 ✭✭✭✭Marlow


    He certainly isn't doing himself any favours there. First he's p***ing the ones off, that want fibre, as it's the most scalable solution and then he's p***ing the ones off, that don't want more masts ... or any at all.

    /M


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    The Cush wrote: »
    Peter Casey submitted his nomination papers to returning officer Fintan Murphy in Castlebar this afternoon for the four seat Midlands-Northwest constituency which takes in all of Connacht as well as Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan and several counties in Leinster.

    His comments on FTTH for rural Ireland

    If Peter Casey's fantasy dream of rural Ireland covered in Imagine masts actually happens and FTTH gets the boot, expect many rural folk to be still doing 3meg speedtests during peak hours past 2025.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,034 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    On the topic of rural broadband, he says the Government "doesn't have a clue" about the best way to provide universal internet access.

    He contends that it is impractical to bring fibre connectivity to every home in Ireland. Instead, he's advocating the use of 5G technology to meet the demand for high speed internet access.

    https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/201...ean-elections/

    I guess we should not expect anything more sensible from Casey!

    Not someone I would want representing my interests.


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Peter Casey doesn't have a clue, and that covers a lot more than broadband.

    Again votes are the only thing these people understand, anyone calling to the door will be told that here and that any decision will be influencing the same well into the future.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    He was on the Tonight Show on VM1, same story, 5G. If the government award the contract in the coming weeks at a fairly substantial cost it will no doubt be fuel to his 5G argument until election day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    The Cush wrote: »
    Looks like decision could slip to after Easter - "I'm told that we're hoping to have some proposals before Easter or shortly after Easter in relation to continuing on the rollout of the broadband"

    Topical Issue Debate 9 Apr 2019
    Minister for Communications: … The aim is to try to provide a recommendation for the Government in or around Easter. The Taoiseach signalled in the House that while his objective would be to consider the issue at Easter, the handling of Brexit in the weeks around this period could see that objective deferred to some degree, but it is not intended to be a significant deferral, if it occurs.

    Deputy Michael Moynihan: … the Minister spoke about Brexit being the reason the Government did not have enough time to make a decision before Easter which would delay it by a few weeks. If it comes out in, say, the first week of May with an announcement on broadband, the entire public will make only one comment, namely, that it is gobbledygook and that it is only being rolled out in advance of the European and local elections, as happened five years ago. People will not buy it. … For God's sake, if possible, they should roll out the plan.

    Minister for Communications: … I am not sure whether the Deputy wants to see it brought forward or delayed. I was confused at the end about what he wanted


    Deputy Michael Moynihan: It is very clear; we want to see it being brought forward.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-09/26/#s28


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Peter Casey again
    At his campaign launch on Thursday Mr Casey said …

    “The National Broadband Plan needs to be scrapped,” he urged, “otherwise rural Ireland will not get the high-speed internet it needs if business is to flourish.”


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/peter-casey-harkin-pulling-out-caused-me-to-shift-sights-to-europe-1.3857654


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    Peter Casey already bugged me before so the fact he's clearly just doing what Imagine have told him isn't surprising. Lobbying at it's finest.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,238 ✭✭✭Orebro


    Who the hell cares what this racist has to say about anything? Hes already proven himself to be crazy. No doubt he'll find enough right wing votes in Connaught to make him MEP. Probably better to have him shipped over there anyway as opposed to the Dail here.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    roddy15 wrote: »
    Peter Casey already bugged me before so the fact he's clearly just doing what Imagine have told him isn't surprising. Lobbying at it's finest.

    Imagine really have a well known figure marketing their spin on their behalf.

    Peter wants the NBP scrapped, apparently FTTH isn't a suitable option or of any help to business, that Imagine's 5G wireless masts will be the holy grail of broadband in rural Ireland, helping homes and business connect to high speed internet!

    I guess Imagines social media team are too busy posting up images of vans and deleting posts off their Facebook to have time to tell the public how wonderful their service is, so they have Peter Casey doing it for them!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭rodge123


    If the NBP gets the green light and I get FTTH from it, I reckon calling imagine to cancel my service will be one of the most satisfying things of my life! 😂

    What would be even more satisfying would be seeing Imagine and Bolger disappearing as their customer base falls off a cliff!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭BandMember


    On a completely unrelated note, don't all election candidates have to declare all donations and where their sources of funding came from? It wouldn't be too hard to imagine where a large portion of some candidates funding appears to be coming from...

    Anyway, back to the NBP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Broadband plan ‘will be billions over budget’ if only bidder wins - https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/379f0a58-5eff-11e9-99ae-5ebf638762d3
    Richard Bruton, the communications minister, is expected to approve or reject the plan soon

    The National Broadband Plan cannot be delivered within the budget that has been set aside for it, it has emerged.

    A spokeswoman for the Department of Public Expenditure and Reform (DPER) said that its officials had been consulted because the project could no longer be delivered within its original budget. “While DPER is not involved in the assessment of the tenders for individual projects, if it emerges that the cost of a project is not capable of being met within the agreed multi-annual capital allocation of the line department, then the line department would generally engage with DPER to explore how to proceed in relation to the project. That is what happened in relation to the broadband plan,” she said.

    going to cabinet this week?
    Leo Varadkar has said the final cost will be “many multiples” of that if a contract is awarded to a Granahan McCourt-led consortium, the last remaining bidder. An announcement on whether the plan will proceed is expected soon with a proposal possibly going to cabinet this week.
    ...
    Seán Kyne, the chief whip, was unable to confirm whether the plan would be brought to cabinet for approval. “I’m not sure about that to be honest. I know it’s certainly imminent, I don’t know the price before you ask me,” he said on The Week in Politics on RTÉ 1 yesterday.

    Seán Kyne on The Week in Politics on RTÉ 1 yesterday (approx. 27 mins in) - https://www.rte.ie/player/series/the-week-in-politics/SI0000001936?epguid=IH000368000

    on the original plan
    A spokeswoman for Mr Bruton said: “This backhaul network was based on a fibre build to 1,100 villages with the expectation that commercial operators would complete the ‘last-mile connection’. For the avoidance of doubt, the estimated cost of this backhaul did not include the cost of a state intervention network to pass or connect actual premises in the intervention area.”

    The initial plan, published in 2012, stated: “Given the plentiful availability of connectivity at international, backhaul and metropolitan area levels at present, the focus of this plan’s procurement process will be on the ‘last mile’. In other words, homes and businesses in areas where high-speed broadband is not available will be addressed by the state intervention under this plan.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Following on from what Michael Ring and Richard Bruton said last week, that the cabinet decision on the NBP could slip post Easter, Timmy Dooley in the Sunday Independent yesterday

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/broadband-plan-dragged-out-dooley-38012764.html

    The Government looks set to miss its latest deadline for a decision on the National Broadband Plan, said Timmy Dooley, Fianna Fail's communications spokesperson.
    The Taoiseach told the Dail in February a decision would be made by Easter on the one remaining bidder in the process, but honouring that promise "looks increasingly unlikely", said Deputy Dooley

    "It has been dragged out beyond all expectations. The Taoiseach was to consult with the Dail but the Cabinet doesn't appear to have made a decision. Even if they do, it won't be brought to the Dail by Easter," he said.

    "The likelihood now is it won't be discussed in the Dail until much later. The expectation was that it would be all completed and a contract would be signed around Easter. Yet again it would appear the Government are attempting to use the promise of a national broadband plan as an election promise for the local and European elections," he said.

    State 'jeopardising global markets' says tech chief
    High-speed fibre broadband is essential for companies in rural Ireland servicing global markets, said Philip Martin, chief executive officer of Cora Systems.

    His company, which has its headquarters in Carrick-on-Shannon, is a world leader in enterprise project and portfolio management for global organisations and Government agencies.

    It employs 65 people and manages more than €20bn-worth of projects each day, supporting hundreds of thousands of users worldwide. For businesses like Cora Systems to thrive in rural Ireland, they need superfast broadband and "the State's continuing reluctance to put the National Broadband Plan into action is severely jeopardising the potential prosperity of the whole country", he said.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/state-jeopardising-global-markets-says-tech-chief-38012745.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,377 ✭✭✭jgbyr




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 501 ✭✭✭SkepticQuark


    For **** sake, it's like ****ing political hot potato. Brexit being delayed again caused this no doubt, they keep delaying it in line with Brexit probably hoping for an excuse if cabinet decide to axe it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭user1842


    roddy15 wrote: »
    For **** sake, it's like ****ing political hot potato. Brexit being delayed again caused this no doubt, they keep delaying it in line with Brexit probably hoping for an excuse if cabinet decide to axe it.

    I think it is clear that they cannot stomach the cost as EIR will immediately release a statement saying that they could have done if for a lot less.

    I also dont understand why it should cost so much if the bidder gets to keep the infrastructure in the end. I would like to know how much of a discount Granahan McCourt are giving based on them owning the infrastructure.

    It is like paying a construction company to build a skyscraper and then letting them keep and own it for free.

    That model only made sense if EIR or ESB/Vodafone won the tender.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,034 ✭✭✭✭Johnboy1951


    What happens to the ownership should the owner collapse?
    Large amounts might well be owed to Eir ....... for rental on all the poles used.
    Pretty sure if eir do a deal they will have full control over what entity can have access.

    I guess Eir could end up owning the lot without it costing them a bob!


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭rodge123


    This really is pathetic from FG.
    Going to email my local FG Councillors and let them know why they dont have a hope of any votes from my household.


  • Registered Users Posts: 890 ✭✭✭Ultimanemo


    rodge123 wrote: »
    This really is pathetic from FG.
    Going to email my local FG Councillors and let them know why they dont have a hope of any votes from my household.
    I did and I didn't receive any replies. Our family will not vote for FG anymore and Will contact my neighbors and ask them to do the same


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 16,971 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gonzo


    I'd expect nothing less from FG, time and time again they fallback on promises. The NBP seems to be all but dead in the water.

    Peter Casey and Sean Bolger will be all smiles this evening.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,319 ✭✭✭rob808


    Gonzo wrote: »
    I'd expect nothing less from FG, time and time again they fallback on promises. The NBP seems to be all but dead in the water.

    Peter Casey and Sean Bolger will be all smiles this evening.
    I think you might be right it not looking good for NBP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭BandMember


    Whatever happened to Leo and his "personal crusade"??? :rolleyes:

    Himself and FG are a joke on this - just looking for an excuse to pull the plug at this stage! They were hoping to pin it on Brexit but can't, so now it'll be dragged out until after the elections before the next Government abandons it. Disgraceful. :mad:


  • Registered Users Posts: 675 ✭✭✭Gary kk


    It's seems pathetic of them not to have an answer by now and more so if they are just delaying giving one.
    Would rather know either way at this stage.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,061 ✭✭✭irishfeen


    With the NBP and Children's Hospital debacle FG are going to be under serious pressure at the local elections - they have lost at least 3 votes from this house.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    Too tasty to offer now. Closer to the elections will do nicely.

    Rural broadband is likely to be one of the key issues in the local elections on May 24th, and Government figures suggested the scheme could be launched in the coming weeks in the lead up to polling day.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/opposition-describes-latest-delay-to-broadband-scheme-as-a-betrayal-1.3860894


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭tototoe


    To be fair, 3billion is a mental amount of money for the nbp. With a single bidder though, they can kind of name their price. The whole process has been a complete disaster, and should have been revisited once it became a one bid only process.

    Can't see this ending well, even if it goes ahead.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,464 ✭✭✭rodge123


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Too tasty to offer now. Closer to the elections will do nicely.

    Rural broadband is likely to be one of the key issues in the local elections on May 24th, and Government figures suggested the scheme could be launched in the coming weeks in the lead up to polling day.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/opposition-describes-latest-delay-to-broadband-scheme-as-a-betrayal-1.3860894

    Why bother saying they would have a decision for Easter in that case, why not just continue the vague waffle of a few more weeks (since last autumn) when asked last month!

    I’ve personally had enough of their inaction and have decided they ain’t getting a local or national vote from me ever again.
    Aside from NBP, their handling of NCH and housing/renting crisis is shambolic.
    I was actually willing to give them a pass on those issues if they delivered the NBP but I’m sick of their BS.
    They have gotten very lucky with the way economy has turned after the recession, continued very low interest rates has given them a easy ride in terms of finances


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,232 ✭✭✭TheRiverman


    Eir is the only company to complete this,cut through all the regulation etc.and get it done.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,456 ✭✭✭The high horse brigade


    Eir is the only company to complete this,cut through all the regulation etc.and get it done.

    Probably, but be realistic, you can't just avoid the procurement processes and give it to a private company and expect not to be dragged through the courts


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Independent TD Michael Fitzmaurice was on the Six-One News this evening discussing this, he was saying even though the Dáil goes on 2 weeks holidays for Easter, there should be no reason for the cabinet to delay a decision on this for the next 2 weeks.

    I think most will agree this is being delayed into May and closer to Election day.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Probably, but be realistic, you can't just avoid the procurement processes and give it to a private company and expect not to be dragged through the courts

    That's basically it, without a procurement process there can be no subsidized NBP.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    The Cush wrote: »
    I think most will agree this is being delayed into May and closer to Election day.
    Implying it's a yes, and then imagine FF coming out against it in the run up to an election.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭westyIrl


    The Cush wrote: »
    Independent TD Michael Fitzmaurice was on the Six-One News this evening discussing this, he was saying even though the Dáil goes on 2 weeks holidays for Easter, there should be no reason for the cabinet to delay a decision on this for the next 2 weeks.

    I think most will agree this is being delayed into May and closer to Election day.

    I watched this too and whilst I'm not a fan of any politician in general I have to say his comments were pretty spot on and he appears to have a very good grasp of the issue with regards fiber, 5G etc.

    One thing he did say that I strongly agree with is that if they are going to be delaying it (as they have been, relentlessly) they should at least respect people enough to come out and lay out the reasons for these delays. It's being treated by them like a clueless clown that leaves the real bitter taste.

    Jim


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    KOR101 wrote: »
    Implying it's a yes, and then imagine FF coming out against it in the run up to an election.

    As I watched the 3 opposition politicians on the News this evening, Dooley, Fitzmaurice and Ó Snodaigh criticising the government's delay on a decision it occurred to me these 3 politicians could be here again in a few weeks criticising the government's decision to award the contract to a single bidder at enormous cost and having no plan B.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,764 ✭✭✭BandMember


    The Cush wrote: »
    As I watched the 3 opposition politicians on the News this evening, Dooley, Fitzmaurice and Ó Snodaigh criticising the government's delay on a decision it occurred to me these 3 politicians could be here again in a few weeks criticising the government's decision to award the contract to a single bidder at enormous cost and having no plan B.


    Welcome to Irish politics! ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,894 ✭✭✭monkeybutter


    The Cush wrote: »
    As I watched the 3 opposition politicians on the News this evening, Dooley, Fitzmaurice and Ó Snodaigh criticising the government's delay on a decision it occurred to me these 3 politicians could be here again in a few weeks criticising the government's decision to award the contract to a single bidder at enormous cost and having no plan B.




    i think you miss the point, there's no point delaying the inevitable


    going ahead with it at this point would be madness in the childrens hospital ball pit of madness


    that doesn't mean they should delay a decision just as a time waster and to try and wait to announce it on a bad news day or sunday evening


    they have made a balls of it


    they always do


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 733 ✭✭✭Dero


    Final cost of national broadband plan could hit €3bn - Taoiseach

    I have no idea whether this indicates anything either way, but I'm thinking that they can't really afford (politically) to abandon this without a backup plan, and for now it looks like FTT(P|H) is still the only game in town. Cautiously optimistic. Very cautious...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,114 ✭✭✭user1842


    Dero wrote: »
    Final cost of national broadband plan could hit €3bn - Taoiseach

    I have no idea whether this indicates anything either way, but I'm thinking that they can't really afford (politically) to abandon this without a backup plan, and for now it looks like FTT(P|H) is still the only game in town. Cautiously optimistic. Very cautious...

    I really wish the NBP would start but paying 3 Billion and not owning the infrastructure would be criminal.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,898 ✭✭✭KOR101


    I really dislike Varadkar's Trump like approach to politics and the facts. This is not the first time, and yes, I know you can get away with it, but in a better world.............

    Today

    Insisting that the current project is “a very different” plan, Mr Varadkar said the original €500 million estimate was designed to bring fibre to 11,000 towns and villages but not to rural areas.

    “Whenever people speak of the cost being multiples of that original estimate, it is important always to point out that it is a different project. Bringing fibre to the villages of Ireland is not the same as bringing it to 540,000 homes, farms and businesses in rural Ireland. It is quite a different project.”


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/national-broadband-plan-could-hit-3bn-varadkar-tells-d%C3%A1il-1.3862599

    From November 2014

    Revealed: 700,000 homes and businesses to get subsidised fast broadband in new plan

    https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/revealed-700000-homes-and-businesses-to-get-subsidised-fast-broadband-in-new-plan-30769126.html

    And, then this March 2015

    In an official update, Departmental officials say that they met with European Commission officials earlier this month to discuss a formal state aid application for the rural broadband roll-out. EU rules forbid governments from interfering with existing competition unless there is a clear lack of services present.
    And the government has held discussions with the European Investment Bank, the Irish Strategic Investment Fund and commercial banks to consider how it will fund the new broadband rollout.
    The Government's standing estimate is that it is ready to contribute between €355m and €512m of the total cost of rolling out the national broadband network, with private operators providing matching amounts.
    But recent estimates from industry figures such as Eircom’s chief executive Richard Moat put the cost of connecting every rural dwelling to fibre at “considerably” less than €1bn.


    https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/existing-infrastructure-should-reduce-500m-taxpayer-bill-for-national-broadband-plan-government-31077928.html


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 510 ✭✭✭westyIrl


    KOR101 wrote: »
    I really dislike Varadkar's Trump like approach to politics and the facts. This is not the first time, and yes, I know you can get away with it, but in a better world.............

    Today

    Insisting that the current project is “a very different” plan, Mr Varadkar said the original €500 million estimate was designed to bring fibre to 11,000 towns and villages but not to rural areas.

    “Whenever people speak of the cost being multiples of that original estimate, it is important always to point out that it is a different project. Bringing fibre to the villages of Ireland is not the same as bringing it to 540,000 homes, farms and businesses in rural Ireland. It is quite a different project.”


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/national-broadband-plan-could-hit-3bn-varadkar-tells-d%C3%A1il-1.3862599

    From November 2014

    Revealed: 700,000 homes and businesses to get subsidised fast broadband in new plan

    https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/revealed-700000-homes-and-businesses-to-get-subsidised-fast-broadband-in-new-plan-30769126.html

    And, then this March 2015

    In an official update, Departmental officials say that they met with European Commission officials earlier this month to discuss a formal state aid application for the rural broadband roll-out. EU rules forbid governments from interfering with existing competition unless there is a clear lack of services present.
    And the government has held discussions with the European Investment Bank, the Irish Strategic Investment Fund and commercial banks to consider how it will fund the new broadband rollout.
    The Government's standing estimate is that it is ready to contribute between €355m and €512m of the total cost of rolling out the national broadband network, with private operators providing matching amounts.
    But recent estimates from industry figures such as Eircom’s chief executive Richard Moat put the cost of connecting every rural dwelling to fibre at “considerably” less than €1bn.


    https://www.independent.ie/business/technology/existing-infrastructure-should-reduce-500m-taxpayer-bill-for-national-broadband-plan-government-31077928.html

    Great post KOR101. I completely agree. It is the same project as far back as I've been following. But if they need to describe it as a completely different project to justify the spend then that's a strong sign they're contemplating appointing preferred bidder.

    However, as keen as I am to have a decent broadband service I have to say that an average cost of ~€6k/premises does beggar belief a bit.

    That's basically the government subsidising €20/month/premises for the 25 year period for all 500k premises and then handover. They (NBI) sure leveraged down any risk as sole remaining bidder. The government is cornered. That's the delay IMHO.

    Jim


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 828 ✭✭✭tototoe


    If this goes ahead under the terms they are talking about it is complete madness. I know people want broadband, but this spend, with the only return going to a private investment vehicle is just madness. Not even retaining ownership of the network is just loonacy, and not in the least bit financially prudent.There is something very seriously wrong with whats happening here. Someone is making a killing here and it aint the tax payer. 100% should not go ahead. The spin coming from leo and fg, that it is very different to what was originallty planned is just utter horse manure,


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,851 ✭✭✭Ten Pin


    The original plan was 700k premises at a subsidy cost of 500 million, with the balance financed by the winning bidder who gets ownership of the network.

    Now it's 540k premises at a cost of 3 billion which seems to be the taxpayer on the hook for the full cost and the bidder still keeps the network.

    And what kind of price negotiation skills are they using in announcing a figure before contract is agreed, total amateurs.

    Easy know how the hospital budget went out of control.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Ten Pin wrote: »
    The original plan was 700k premises at a subsidy cost of 500 million, with the balance financed by the winning bidder who gets ownership of the network.

    Now it's 540k premises at a cost of 3 billion which seems to be the taxpayer on the hook for the full cost and the bidder still keeps the network.

    And what kind of price negotiation skills are they using in announcing a figure before contract is agreed, total amateurs.

    Easy know how the hospital budget went out of control.

    The original plan from 2014, discussed at committee recently, was different to the one tendered

    Deputy Marc MacSharry: … The original indication in 2012 was that €355 million to €512 million would be the spread of anticipated expenditure. That was to connect 800,000 homes and premises generally. The Taoiseach has indicated it will be many multiples of those costs and we are now talking about 540,000 homes and premises. Will Mr. Griffin shed some light on that?

    Mark Griffin: … The initial cost estimate cited of €355 million to €512 million was for a scheme of much narrower scope. That scheme was announced in 2014 by the then Minister, former Deputy Pat Rabbitte, and it primarily took in providing fibre backhaul to approximately 1,100 areas, primarily villages, in rural Ireland, with the assumption being that the commercial sector would deal with what we termed the last mile. That is a loose term as the distance could be much further or less than a mile. It was a different scope and it was predominantly focused on fibre backhaul to these 1,100 locations. It did not make provision for connection costs to individual premises.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,169 ✭✭✭✭ED E


    1100 was also pretty anemic. For comparison, IIRC, there are over 9000 VDSL cabs. Would have left a lot of distance to cover.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,017 ✭✭✭tsue921i8wljb3


    The Cush wrote: »
    The original plan from 2014, discussed at committee recently, was different to the one tendered

    And reported here:

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/technology/up-to-500m-broadband-investment-for-rural-ireland-1.1774036


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Timmy and the ESB again
    Not Too Late For Govt To Take Ownership Of Broadband Plan – Dooley

    Clare’s Fianna Fáil TD claims it’s not too late for the Government to take ownership of the National Broadband Plan – by awarding it to the ESB.

    http://www.clare.fm/news/not-late-govt-take-ownership-broadband-plan-dooley/

    https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-newstalk-breakfast/national-broadband-plan-delays

    Topical Issue Debate Tuesday, 16 Apr 2019
    Deputy Seán Canney (Minister of State at the Department of Communications): … A question was asked on whether the ESB could roll out national broadband. The European Commission and the Attorney General have made it clear that it would not be possible to provide a subsidy to a commercial semi-State body such as the ESB to roll out the national broadband plan without a new public procurement process. We are where we are. The Attorney General has advised that there are significant legal risks around procurement law and state-aid law if the State was to mandate a fund directly outside a procurement process and economic undertaking, including a commercial semi-State owned entity such as the ESB, to carry out the national broadband plan.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-16/26/


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,679 ✭✭✭✭The Cush


    Dero wrote: »

    Transcript of the debates in the Dáil today where the Taoiseach confirms the cost, including VAT, contingencies and so on could be in the region of €3 billion, spread over 25 years.
    Mary-Lou: ... When will we have clarity on the cost of the national broadband roll out? It was supposed to be announced before Easter. The Minister for Communications, Climate Action and Environment, Deputy Bruton, has stated that is not now going to happen despite repeated assurances that it would. The real casualties of this entire debacle are the more than 500,000 homes still without access to high-speed broadband. We still do not have a date for commencement seven years after this plan was originally announced and the commitment to deliver high-speed broadband to every home and business by 2020 is going to be broken spectacularly.

    The process has been chaotic and, frankly, farcical. When will we have clarity on when people will actually get access to high-speed broadband? A specific model for the broadband plan has been adhered to whereby the project will be conducted by a private company to which ownership will revert after 25 years.

    Taoiseach: That still means that without Government intervention, approximately 540,000 homes, farms and businesses will not have access to high-speed broadband. That is why Government intervention is required. It is not a small number of people and it is not a small number of homes. It is 540,000 homes, farms and businesses and over 1 million people and it will require the laying of 100,000 km of fibre. It is a huge project when looked at in that way.

    The Government needs to spend a little more time before we can bring a decision on this to Cabinet. As the Deputy knows, the cost, including VAT, contingencies and so on could be in the region of €3 billion, albeit spread over 25 years. However, the benefits must be borne in mind. It is 540,000 homes, farms and businesses and over 1 million people. It is a huge project of huge scale. We want to do this and to do it right. Before we bring a decision to Cabinet, we want to ensure there is no better alternative. Deputy McDonald asked about plans B, C and D. We are examining all of those because we want to be convinced that the business case, costs and everything else are deliverable, that it is done in accordance with the public spending code, that is being technically reviewed, that international expertise and an outside panel have examined the plan, that all of the alternative ideas being floated are not better and that it cannot be done cheaper or quicker. We want to be satisfied of all of those things, make a Cabinet decision and bring the plan before the joint committee and Dáil to allow Members to examine the facts also.

    https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-16/2/

    The National Broadband Implementation Plan was one of the Topical Issues selected for debate yesterday in the Dáil - https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/dail/2019-04-16/2/


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