NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

ED E

ussjtrunks wrote: »

will we get anymore details today if the dail agree?

I doubt we'll see much until after contracts.

The Cush

ussjtrunks wrote: »

will we get anymore details today if the dail agree?

They'll probably publish a lot of documentation from the tender phase in the coming days, reports and so on, and we'll likely get a official overview of the plan, similar to what journalists got at the Dept of An Taoiseach presentation this morning.

tsue921i8wljb3

Getting a 401 on the DCCAE NBP page so likely some updates being made.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/Pages/National-Broadband-Plan-Preffered-Bidder-Announcement.aspx

I think the link gives it away though!

irishfeen

Signed off by cabinet.

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1125784007063547905?s=21

fergus1001

pardon my frustration but I've been in this thread for 2 if not 3 years


so Commmmmeeeee onnnnn ta Fooooook LEO !

The Cush

Press conference due about 4.45pm

daraghwal

The NBP has been approved by the government. Only took 7 years

ct5amr2ig1nfhp

No doubt it will be delayed again due to legal action from the likes of Imagine etc.

tsue921i8wljb3

UGH 2026 for 70000 premises.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125789752777637890

marno21

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

UGH 2026 for 70000 premises.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125789752777637890

2026 is far better than had they not approved it and gone back to scratch.

There were a lot of economists etc questioning this but for the 540k people receiving this, it's by far and away the best outcome for them.

Grab All Association

Imagine shills are out in force today. Go look at every NBP article on Facebook/Twitter and they’re claiming fibre is obsolete and or they left eircom/siro/virgin because of contention and that imagine is faster and reliable

tsue921i8wljb3

€100 connection fee for customers.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125792324083122176

Mahony0509

Might be a stupid question but when do you think work will commence?

touts

Timeline of the next 4 weeks:

Today: Cabinet agree broadband plan
Next 3 weeks: Much fanfare and self back slapping by Fine Gael candidates across rural Ireland.
24th May: Local elections
4 weeks time: Cabinet send it back to a "committee" for more study into value for money.

tsue921i8wljb3

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Might be a stupid question but when do you think work will commence?

Sometime in 2020 would be my guess.

tsue921i8wljb3

Live press conference. Sorry for those on crap connections!

https://www.facebook.com/VirginMediaNews/videos/321274838567281

Amirani

marno21 wrote: »

There were a lot of economists etc questioning this but for the 540k people receiving this, it's by far and away the best outcome for them.

I think the most salient economics argument against it was pointing out that the cost was broken down as: 1.5bn for the first 440k homes, and 1.5bn for the last 100k homes. That split offers very different levels of value for money for the State.

ednwireland

I suspect fg are getting it on rural doorsteps. I suspect this is an election ploy and we will be lucky if anything is delivered. however the money will be spent.
that's my cynical side.

tsue921i8wljb3

NBI to cover staff and maintenance costs.

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125793688091803648

tsue921i8wljb3

LOL!

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125794812152688640

The Cush

Press release up now

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/press-releases/Pages/Biggest-investment-in-Rural-Ireland-since-Electrification-as-Preferred-Bidder-appointed-to-National-Broadband-Plan.aspx

tsue921i8wljb3

Nearly 300 broadband connection points (BCPs) will be provided in Year 1, acting as hotspots providing free Wi-Fi in local communities supporting digital work hubs in every county. The provision of the fibre network will take place in conjunction with these BCPs, with 120,000 premises covered by year 2, and 70,000-100,000 premises each year thereafter.

So an average of 60000 premises passed over each of the first two years. At least he is being somewhat realistic.

The Cush

The 1,500 page contract will be published in full once signed.

Project Timeline:

The rollout will commence in Q4 2019 with significant pre-mobilisation activities on going over the next number of months. While the majority of premises will be passed in the initial 5 years the overall rollout will be concluded within 7 years.

irishfeen

To be fair we have waited for this for 7 years, let’s hope this is finally it!

ED E

Are they building their own core to the BCPs or is that to be leased? Lot of work for the former.

celticbhoy27

Time for a new thread? Great news in my book. On to the implementation stage

digiman

ED E wrote: »

Are they building their own core to the BCPs or is that to be leased? Lot of work for the former.

Surely Enet can be used for that. Otherwise you are right it will take a lot of work

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Are they building their own core to the BCPs or is that to be leased? Lot of work for the former.

Everything I've seen so far points to them building from scratch probably out from MAN towns. There's been mention of pole and duct access from open eir but no mention of dark fibre. Perhaps that is just a result of the level of technical detail given in press releases.

ED E

If they release the locations we may be able to determine a likely plan of action based on current infra.

fergus1001

ED E wrote:

If they release the locations we may be able to determine a likely plan of action based on current infra.

ED E can you amend the tittle of the thread to include a big dirty APROVED please

theguzman

I am liking alot of what I have read, there is no smoke and mirrors so far, the timeline seems appropriate, once we see shovels in the ground and work starting then you can know it is on its way.

I always felt it was a disgrace the money squandered on Water Meters when this should have started a long time ago.

Gonzo

I definitely think this now deserves a new thread.

Over 8,300 replies since 2012.

BArra

If its 3-6 months till contracts are signed then can this still be scuppered?

irishfeen

BArra wrote: »

If its 3-6 months till contracts are signed then can this still be scuppered?

No, don’t think so ... Fianna Fáil have come out and said while they are not happy with price they won’t stand in its way.

SkepticQuark

5bn to buyout Eir plus the bit about homes where it costs more than 5k to connect.
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125808144851046400

The Cush

BArra wrote: »

If its 3-6 months till contracts are signed then can this still be scuppered?

Yes according to Min Bruton in the press conference but fairly unlikely.

The Cush

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Everything I've seen so far points to them building from scratch probably out from MAN towns.

Min. Bruton mentioned working out from the MANs during the press conference.

funnyname

So will the first 100k houses be the lowish hanging fruit that Eir decided to miss out on in their rural rollout?

The Cush

SkepticQuark wrote: »

5bn to buyout Eir plus the bit about homes where it costs more than 5k to connect.
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1125808144851046400

Yes Min Bruton mentioned that one of the options they looked at was nationalizing the eircom infrastructure but that would cost in the region of €5bn to buyout the shareholders but none of that money would go towards the NBP.

tsue921i8wljb3

funnyname wrote: »

So will the first 100k houses be the lowish hanging fruit that Eir decided to miss out on in their rural rollout?

No one outside of those involved in the process really knows yet. If they use the existing open eir fibre cabling you'd imagine that those premises at the end of lines could be passed quite quickly. On the other hand if they don't use the existing cabling they may prefer to focus on higher density areas where open eir avoided completely with their rollout.

theguzman

http://www.engineersjournal.ie/2019/05/07/ireland-moves-up-global-broadband-rankings/

If you build they will come, if the NBP gets build as envisioned then today's day could well be hailed as a red letter day in 10 or 15 years time.

Fibre takeup will be slow at first but it will take a while, as people see it in their friends and neighbours etc. it will drive takeup also.

Tigerandahalf

Will Goodbody says on the rte site that the fibre will be run back to the existing MANS using existing poles and ducts.

For some silly reason rte won't allow one to share the link or copy the text from the screen. They are very protective.

pegasus1

Today I saw ducting being installed in between where there is fibre run... a place that is in the NBP area...I smell something sneaky..

The Cush

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Will Goodbody says on the rte site that the fibre will be run back to the existing MANS using existing poles and ducts.

For some silly reason rte won't allow one to share the link or copy the text from the screen. They are very protective.

National Broadband Plan - your questions answered
By Will Goodbody

After years of delays, rising costs and political controversy, the National Broadband Plan got the go-ahead from the Cabinet today. But what does it mean for those living in rural Ireland, currently battling with snail’s pace broadband speeds?

What is the National Broadband Plan?

Those people living in towns and cities around the country generally speaking enjoy reasonable to good online connection speeds, making it easy and enjoyable to both play and work on the internet. But those living in rural areas (and in some places even urban locations) struggle with really poor connectivity.

That’s because commercial operators have refused to extend and upgrade the networks required for high speed internet into these areas, as the cost of doing so would be so high that the service they would offer would not be commercially viable.

So seven years ago the Government at the time gave a commitment to bring a high speed internet connection to every home and business in the country under a National Broadband Plan (NBP). But there have been many problems and challenges delivering on that promise.

Finally, the Government today approved a bid from the last remaining bidder for the contract - a consortium called National Broadband Ireland (NBI) - which means it looks like it will go ahead.

I live in rural Ireland and have bad connection. What will I get?

After an extensive mapping process, the Department of Communications says there are 542,000 homes, farms and businesses like yours that require connecting right away, with new properties also needing them in the future.
It says that these premises are used by 1.1 million people. The 1,500 page contract with National Broadband Ireland will be signed in the next three to six months.

After that shovels will go in the ground pretty much straight away - probably 2020. 133,000 premises will be passed by the fibre optic cable needed to provide the service in the first two years. After that 70,000 - 100,000 more premises will be added each year. The commitment is that 100% of premises (including on islands) will be reached within seven years.

What kind of service will I get?

The original promise was that the NBP would deliver minimum download speeds of 30Mbps and minimum upload speeds of 6Mbps. But the winning bidder had committed to minimum download speeds of 150Mbps for homes in year one, rising to 500Mbps by year 11.

Businesses will be able to get 1Gbps from the very start. Upload speeds for residential properties will start at 30Mbps but rise over time, while businesses will get 1Gbps upload speeds from day one.

When will I get the service?

That depends a lot on where you live. The plan is that work will have started in every county within two years, with all 542,000 premises currently waiting a connection online by 2027. However, the rollout will be done in the most economically effective way possible, so it may be that easier to connect homes in each county receive the service first, with others in more remote or difficult to access locations following.

In the meantime, 300 so-called shared Broadband Connection Points will be set up in halls and other shared spaces in small towns and villages across the country where connectivity is bad. They will offer free high-speed broadband connectivity, although there may be a charge to access the premises, depending on where it is.

And what will this service cost me?

That’s unknown at this stage. The network will be a so-called "wholesale" one, so the winning bidder will build the network and then lease capacity on it to other retail providers.

The telecoms market is quite heavily regulated around pricing, and so between that and the competition that the new network will likely bring, the prices are likely to be reasonably in line with charges elsewhere.

Also, people living in urban areas who already have high-speed broadband benefit from savings that come with bundling of internet based services, like phone, broadband, TV and mobile phone.

As for connection costs, although it is understood that it costs on average about €1,000 to connect a premises to the network passing its gate, National Broadband Ireland will only charge €100 to the retailer for this service in order to boost take-up.

It will be up to each retailer whether they wish to pass this onto the customer. Each premises owner will have to request a connection, once their building has been passed by the fibre optic cable. In some places, cable won’t be run close to the premises unless a service is actually requested.

Without getting too nerdy, what kind of technology is being used?

The Government really wanted the National Broadband Plan network to be future-proofed for up to 35 years. So it has gone for a fibre-to-the-home or FTTH option, which will see fibre optic cable run right into each premises.

There will, however, be some places that are simply unjustifiably expensive or too physically difficult to connect to fibre. In these instances (up to 2% of the total), another technology like fixed wireless internet, might be used to connect the building to the network.

But the commitment to a high speed service remains the same. NBI will use a lot of the existing infrastructure, including ducts and poles, owned by eir to roll out the new network.

Essentially they will run fibre to all the areas where it’s needed and back to the 80 Metropolitan Area Networks (MANs) which are Government owned rings of fibre around towns and cities across the country. Very little new ducting or poles will be needed, except on the land of people who are being connected to the network.

How much will all this cost to build?

Here’s the eye-watering bit. The Government says the contract, when signed, will cap the NBP cost to the state at no more than €2.7bn. That’s a 15-fold increase on what was estimated in 2012, nearly a six-fold increase on what was predicted in 2014, and a three-fold increase on what was expected in 2015 as the tendering process got underway in earnest.

Some €545 million of the cost will be a strictly Government controlled contingency fund. While another chunk of it, some €355m, is VAT. The Government says the €2.7bn figure is a capped maximum and there are clauses in the contract to take back profits from the contractor that are in excess of a reasonable level.

The large increases in the overall budget have been attributed to the changing nature of the project and the increase in the level of understanding of what was involved as the tendering process proceeded, as well as the level of risk bidders were willing to assume.

The contract will run for 25 years, with a ten year extension possible at the end. There will be strong monitoring of the delivery of the plan by the Department of Communications built in, with timeline, broadband speed, pricing and other milestones set to be enforced.

It is also interesting to note that eir will receive an estimated €1bn over the lifetime of the contract from NBI for the rent of its infrastructure, although it is understood the profit eir will make will be less than 10% of that.

Would another technology or retendering not have reduced the cost?

A project team at the Department of Communications has been working on this for many years and sources said it has carried out a large number of assessments of a range of different options, including retendering, reducing the scope of the plan, getting a state company to build the network, using different technology like wireless 5G for example, etc.

The conclusion in every case was that the best option in terms of keeping the cost to the minimum and delivering a future-proofed service was the one chosen. Extensive and conservative cost-benefit analysis has also been carried out by the project team and despite the high cost of delivering the plan, it found there to be a positive return on the investment.

However, some experts and opposition politicians remain skeptical about this assessment and say it could be done for a lot cheaper. The Department of Public Expenditure has also voiced concerns about the value of the cost.

Who is building the network?

Originally there were three bidders for the National Broadband Plan - eir, SIRO (the ESB/Vodafone joint venture) and a consortium which initially appeared to be fronted by enet. However, SIRO dropped out saying it couldn’t make a justifiable business case for tendering. It was followed by eir, which cited complexity in the tender process, together with growing uncertainty on a range of regulatory and pricing issues outside of the NBP process.

But it left after it had convinced the Government to remove 300,000 properties from the intervention area, as it said it would build a commercial network to them instead.

This decision was widely seen by many as eir cherry-picking the easiest to connect homes, leaving other bidders at a disadvantage. It also contributed to an increase in the cost, as it took away much of the revenue stream for the winning bidder, without reducing the build out costs by much.

That then left just one remaining bidder - the National Broadband Ireland consortium - which appeared to be led at the time by enet, but which then morphed in make-up quite a bit and is now led by US private investment firm Granahan McCourt and its founder and CEO David McCourt.

He maintains that Granahan McCourt was always the lead bidder in the consortium and that enet (which Granahan McCourt used to own) just got tagged with the title of leader by the media. The consortium is made up of a mixture of different service providers and contractors with 1,500 staff, including Nokia which will provide the equipment, enet which will provide connectivity to the MANS, as well as KN Group, The Kelly Group and Denis O’Brien’s Actavo.

Questions have been raised about the consortium’s experience and its ability to deliver the project - but Government sources are confident it has the necessary skills. Questions around a number of private meetings between Mr McCourt and then Minister for Communications, Denis Naughten, also led to the minister’s resignation last year. However, a subsequent investigation found neither Mr Naughten nor Mr McCourt influenced the tender process.

Who will own the network at the end?

National Broadband Ireland will own the contract at the end of the 25 years. The Government probed a range of different funding and ownership models and settled on the so-called, gap-funded model, where the state effectively bridges the gap in funding required for the design, build and management of the network and ownership then reverts to the contractor at the end.

It did this, its claimed, because this model maximizes inter-connectivity on the network, saves costs and lowers risk to the state. However, opposition parties are concerned about the Government "giving away" the network at the end of the process, having invested billions in it.

The counter-argument to that from the Government side is that there is little benefit in owning cable running on other companies poles and in their ducts.

What happens next then?

It will take around three to six months for the legalities of the 1,500 contract to be finalised before it is signed, and for other legal issues to be ironed out. After that the project rollout will begin and rural Ireland should finally, and slowly, start to come online.

tsue921i8wljb3

24 page PDF entitled "Delivering the National Broadband Plan" from DCCAE giving an overview of today's decision and what will happen next. Confirmation included that 200 eir exchanges will be used to house OLTs.

The existing State-owned Metropolitan Area Networks (MANs) will also be used. Electronic equipment will be housed in 200 existing local exchanges as well as in the MANs.

No mention of dark fibre though with 146000km of new fibre cabling being talked about.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/documents/Delivering%20the%20National%20Broadband%20Plan.pdf

irishfeen

So in lay-man terms. Will the NBI be linking back into Eir exchanges and thus onto the core fibre network like the case with the eirfibre rollout or will the network be completely different and only the use of eir poles and ducts where needed?

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

So in lay-man terms. Will the NBI be linking back into Eir exchanges and thus onto the core fibre network like the case with the eirfibre rollout or will the network be completely different and only the use of eir poles and ducts where needed?

I doubt anyone here can tell you definitively. That was the first mention I've even seen of them using eir exchange buildings (assuming they are referring to same).

ED E

200 Exchanges, what was the count on LLU exchanges again?


They'll be colocating in larger exchanges. For example in Wicklow it won't be Powerscourt or Glendalough itll be Wicklow Town, Bray etc. That means running a fair way along the existing poles to get out passed the commercial, the 300k and then into the intervention area. If OE could offer dark strands from those Exchs to the "border" where splitting could begin it'd make things a lot quicker.

theguzman

It will be interesting if we see KN Networks and Open Eir's crew being contracted for the work. Fibre Technicians will be in demand now, a good training course to take.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

200 Exchanges, what was the count on LLU exchanges again?


They'll be colocating in larger exchanges. For example in Wicklow it won't be Powerscourt or Glendalough itll be Wicklow Town, Bray etc. That means running a fair way along the existing poles to get out passed the commercial, the 300k and then into the intervention area. If OE could offer dark strands from those Exchs to the "border" where splitting could begin it'd make things a lot quicker.

I've a different opinion on that. I think the 200 exchange buildings may be smaller exchanges over 20km away from MAN towns. For premises closer to MANs they could colocate the OLTs in existing enet locations saving on open eir exchange rental.

I really hope detailed network designs are published but I fear they won't be.