NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

tsue921i8wljb3

theguzman wrote: »

It will be interesting if we see KN Networks and Open Eir's crew being contracted for the work. Fibre Technicians will be in demand now, a good training course to take.

KN yes. open eir no.

Just watching the late debate. If we're not sure exactly which or how many houses will even be connected this system how can we possibly price the job.

I haven't been following this too close but it sounds like they all know this is going to be a hot mess and nobody will say stop because it's local election time.

listermint

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Just watching the late debate. If we're not sure exactly which or how many houses will even be connected this system how can we possibly price the job.

I haven't been following this too close but it sounds like they all know this is going to be a hot mess and nobody will say stop because it's local election time.

But they are sure. Read a few pages back for proper details ..

tsue921i8wljb3

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Just watching the late debate. If we're not sure exactly which or how many houses will even be connected this system how can we possibly price the job.

I haven't been following this too close but it sounds like they all know this is going to be a hot mess and nobody will say stop because it's local election time.

The premises will be passed with fibre i.e the cable will be running past the entrance on poles or in ducts. You can accurately price how much that will cost. What you don't know is how many premises will want to connect to the cable passing their gate.

ED E

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I've a different opinion on that. I think the 200 exchange buildings may be smaller exchanges over 20km away from MAN towns. For premises closer to MANs they could colocate the OLTs in existing enet locations saving on open eir exchange rental.

I really hope detailed network designs are published but I fear they won't be.

Whats the size of that subset though:
A) Remote
Physically large enough for the PCL product?


I'm not sure we've received and answer to what precisely OE is doing for RSU exchs that are getting GPON services. I suspect in a lot of cases the OLTs will reside in the old subtending parent exchs instead. If they are placing them in new roadside cabs then there is zero space to allow for PCL. Other non RSU remote exchanges are still smaller than the toilet in the back of a coach. Again no way OE will offer colo there.

tsue921i8wljb3

ED E wrote: »

Whats the size of that subset though:
A) Remote
Physically large enough for the PCL product?


I'm not sure we've received and answer to what precisely OE is doing for RSU exchs that are getting GPON services. I suspect in a lot of cases the OLTs will reside in the old subtending parent exchs instead. If they are placing them in new roadside cabs then there is zero space to allow for PCL. Other non RSU remote exchanges are still smaller than the toilet in the back of a coach. Again no way OE will offer colo there.

From looking at deployment plans not many exchanges have FTTH coming from a parent. Going by Andys post in the FTTH thread I believe they may be using cabs for RSU exchanges.

If you are correct and they are coloacting in large exchanges where do the OLTs reside? NBI have no buildings or land that I am aware of.

ED E

The OLTs would have to go into the larger exchanges with aggregation and routing equipment. OE would provide power and cooling and connectivity if required. This gives 20km radius around these exchanges if thats enough.

Alternatively they need new street cabs like SIRO are constructing but then there's mini pillars and lots of civils involved.

Unless, you virtually unbundle but then its nearly entirely an Eircom Ltd project which seems ludicrous.


From Ireland Offline:


MANs dont really get you anywhere close to where you need to be.

irishfeen

That MAN’s map would be completely useless for county Cork, 20km would get almost nothing.

theguzman

What is an OLT lads?

ED E

theguzman wrote: »

What is an OLT lads?

A big boy fiber modem that connects to hundreds of modems in users homes.

tsue921i8wljb3

My point is that those 88 MAN towns largely correspond with large open eir exchanges. Why bother co-locating with open eir in those towns.

theguzman

ED E wrote: »

A big boy fiber modem that connects to hundreds of modems in users homes.

A Fibre version of the DSLAM if you will.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_line_termination

cregmon

theguzman wrote: »

What is an OLT lads?

Good explanation here on terminology
https://community.fs.com/blog/abc-of-pon-understanding-olt-onu-ont-and-odn.html

ED E

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

My point is that those 88 MAN towns largely correspond with large open eir exchanges. Why bother co-locating with open eir in those towns.

With some of the largest exchanges, but not all the large enough ones. Bit of a princess and the pea here of the right mix of floor space and being in the middle of a field.

irishfeen

Couldn’t they just take fibre direct from the MAN towns and as need be have kiosks akin to whats in towns at the side of the road carrying the trunk fibre?

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Couldn’t they just take fibre direct from the MAN towns and as need be have kiosks akin to whats in towns at the side of the road carrying the trunk fibre?

Do you mean roadside cabinets? That requires power and planning permission I presume. I suppose they could go down that route.

ED E

irishfeen wrote: »

That MAN’s map would be completely useless for county Cork, 20km would get almost nothing.

These are 15km radii circles, 5km allowing for the routing of roads which is generous.



Not super. Not even sure if the MANs (eNET) have floor space in all those towns.

irishfeen

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Do you mean roadside cabinets? That requires power and planning permission I presume. I suppose they could go down that route.

Yes exactly, I don’t know the exact details of planning in terms of utilities but it cannot be rocket science. Of all things rural Ireland has is plenty of room ditch-side for cabinets. As for the power source thankfully every single house on the NBP should have active electricity lines alongside the eir poles. Seems the most logic way to undertake this if they don’t have access to eir exchanges.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Yes exactly, I don’t know the exact details of planning in terms of utilities but it cannot be rocket science. Of all things rural Ireland has is plenty of room ditch-side for cabinets. As for the power source thankfully every single house on the NBP should have active electricity lines alongside the eir poles. Seems the most logic way to undertake this if they don’t have access to eir exchanges.

They do have access to eir exchanges (200 apparently). Myself and ED E are debating which exchanges they'll use.

irishfeen

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

They do have access to eir exchanges (200 apparently). Myself and ED E are debating which exchanges they'll use.

Ah right ok, my local exchange is Bweeng in Cork. Unless they take core fibre from Mallow town, Donoughmore or Grenagh then you would think they have to use the Bweeng exchange.

ED E

irishfeen wrote: »

Ah right ok, my local exchange is Bweeng in Cork. Unless they take core fibre from Mallow town, Donoughmore or Grenagh then you would think they have to use the Bweeng exchange.

A good example as its outside of the range of the MANs.



Its not listed as NGN yet, looks like its under works to get a core connection. After that if it has space for colo then it'd be an NBI base for the area going out on Eir poles passed the rural routes and into the intervention areas.

irishfeen

ED E wrote: »

A good example as its outside of the range of the MANs.



Its not listed as NGN yet, looks like its under works to get a core connection. After that if it has space for colo then it'd be an NBI base for the area going out on Eir poles passed the rural routes and into the intervention areas.

It almost certainly does have a core connection because there are houses gone live with installations in the village. AFAIK they brought the core fibre from Donoughmore, their very first job in the village and then the efibre was rolled out.

Bweeng never had a single broadband connection apart from dial up from Eir before this rollout.

The Cush

The press conference if anyone is interested

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JUiom9FdjQ

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/Pages/National-Broadband-Plan-Preffered-Bidder-Announcement.aspx

The Cush

https://twitter.com/RichardbrutonTD/status/1125808441237417984

tsue921i8wljb3

Eir may profit from broadband rollout to tune of €1bn

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/eir-may-profit-from-broadband-rollout-to-tune-of-1bn-1.3884175

Would it have cost open eir €1bn to set up a separate wholesale division? Apparently so if we are to believe bids were similar. Though why would SIRO's bid have been similar when they didn't have to rent any infrastructure.

The Cush

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Would it have cost open eir €1bn to set up a separate wholesale division? Apparently so if we are to believe bids were similar. Though why would SIRO's bid have been similar when they didn't have to rent any infrastructure.

Will we ever know? I presume this kind of information will never be published

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

Will we ever know? I presume this kind of information will never be published

No. I can't see it being published myself.

The Cush

I think this pretty much sums up the opposition right now

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/1125851850853507072

The Cush

Most isolated areas may have to pay extra for broadband plan

Families and businesses in the most isolated parts of rural Ireland may have to pay extra fees out of their own pocket under the Government’s €3bn broadband plan.

Taoiseach Leo Varadkar admitted the situation may happen in cases where the cost of rolling out the vital service to individual homes exceeds €5,000. He insisted the number of people affected will be “exceptionally small”.
…
t the end of the 90-minute briefing yesterday, Mr Varadkar said that, in addition to this cost, in the hardest to reach and most isolated parts of the country, some families and businesses will still have to pay out of their own pocket for the service.

“There’s one caveat to that,” Mr Varadkar clarified when Mr Bruton said people living in certain parts of the country will not face extra costs.

“If it costs more than €5,000 to connect to your particular premises, you’ll be asked for a contribution [for any cost] over the €5,000.

Mr Bruton later said that, even in these cases, it is hoped the McCourt consortium will use its 1%-2% breathing space clause in the still unsigned contract to use a form of wireless access for these homes.

Speaking to reporters before the Government announcement was made, Labour leader Brendan Howlin flagged the individual cost fears, claiming it risks other people being dragged into the net.

“I believe in 100% all-island rollout, yes, I do,” he said. “I believe people are citizens of this Republic, would you say people on an island are entitled to existing services? Yes, they are.

But nobody’s answered that question [on the extra cost].

“There is a connection cost with the private companies now, if you just do a very crude provision the unit cost is about €5,500 now, and obviously the more isolated are multiples of that.”

oscarBravo

Prof Paul Davis was discussing the NBP in the first segment of Morning Ireland. I'm struggling to think of a single thing he got right.

As just one example: when asked about future-proofing he started talking about "3G, 4G and now 5G" - didn't mention fibre at all.

Nuphor

Website up (has been password protected for months):

https://www.nationalbroadbandireland.ie/

Speeds on day one similar to Eir/Siri offerings (150mb, 1000mb).

The Cush

oscarBravo wrote: »

Prof Paul Davis was discussing the NBP in the first segment of Morning Ireland. I'm struggling to think of a single thing he got right.

As just one example: when asked about future-proofing he started talking about "3G, 4G and now 5G" - didn't mention fibre at all.

Paul Davis in no expert on the technology as we heard a few weeks ago on Newstalk with Ivan Yates and Sean Bolger - https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=109962253

This morning's discussion - https://www.rte.ie/radio/radioplayer/rteradiowebpage.html#!rii=b9%5F21550894%5F48%5F08%2D05%2D2019%5F

A number of confidential documents related to the tendering process for the National Broadband Plan are due to be published by the Government today.

A series of confidential documents related to the tendering process for the National Broadband Plan are due to be published by the Government.

The release will include emails from the Department of Public Expenditure, where senior officials are known to have expressed significant concern about the project's value for money.
…
The Cabinet decision means that some documents relating to the tendering process, which were confidential up to this point, can be released now by the Department of Communications.

The tranche of documents will include emails from officials at the Department of Public Expenditure, who did not believe the proposed State subsidy of nearly €3 billion constituted value for money.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0508/1048091-nbp_documents/

plodder

Brendan Howlin is on Morning Ireland right now doing his best to scupper it.

Pique

Nuphor wrote:

Website up (has been password protected for months):

Where's the "I'm interested" bit of that page?

Johnboy1951

plodder wrote: »

Brendan Howlin is on Morning Ireland right now doing his best to scupper it.

I was disgusted with Howlin this am.
All he had to offer was a whole load of implications through questions for which he had no answers.

Congrats to the gov for finally making some form of decision.

I fail to see why it should take another 6 months or so for the contract to be signed.

Heck both parties have had the thing for ages!
I don't care how long it is, it has been well and truly studied and dissected and they both should be ready to sign immediately.

More unnecessary delay ....

Mortelaro

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I was disgusted with Howlin this am.
All he had to offer was a whole load of implications through questions for which he had no answers.

Congrats to the gov for finally making some form of decision.

I fail to see why it should take another 6 months or so for the contract to be signed.

Heck both parties have had the thing for ages!
I don't care how long it is, it has been well and truly studied and dissected and they both should be ready to sign immediately.

More unnecessary delay ....

I refer you to what the cush said above about FF's stance on this
Opposing but if in government not unimplimenting

It's just typical adversarial politics unfortunately
FG would be at the same if FF were in power
Unhelpful but a fact of our democracy
Opposition have a thankless task sometimes of trying to find fault with anything
Only perfect politicians know when to stop
They don't get elected though because the formula for getting elected is creating noise,even unhelpful noise

The Cush

The Cush wrote: »

A number of confidential documents related to the tendering process for the National Broadband Plan are due to be published by the Government today.

They were due to be published this morning but delayed for whatever reason, big black redacting markers out no doubt.

rodge123

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I was disgusted with Howlin this am.
All he had to offer was a whole load of implications through questions for which he had no answers.

Congrats to the gov for finally making some form of decision.

I fail to see why it should take another 6 months or so for the contract to be signed.

Heck both parties have had the thing for ages!
I don't care how long it is, it has been well and truly studied and dissected and they both should be ready to sign immediately.

More unnecessary delay ....

Incase brexit goes badly and the goverment decide we haven’t got the money for NBP or so they can announce shovels are in the ground a few weeks before a general election!

ussjtrunks

My fixed wireless is ok get around 20mb at peak so I can wait for them to get it done hopefully it won’t actually take 5 years to get connected. Fairly sure the nearest fibre to me is Mallow so I’m sure it’ll be a long wait though.

What would be nice is if you could register interest in it and they could prioritize though who will actually sign up

KOR101

Marlow wrote: »

Not necessarily. By keeping it to 150 Mbit/s they can actually stick more houses in every cluster and cut cost to a certain level. All the contract calls for is 30 Mbit/s now and 100 Mbit/s going forward. They could even do that on FTTH. Lots of places with sub 100M speeds on FTTH in other countries.

/M

There would be uproar if a fibre cable is laid to the house and then speeds are limited to 150mbits. Rural FTTH will almost certainly be offered the exact same packages as town and city FTTH. The only reason 150mbits is being mentioned is because that's the slowest existing FTTH package.

S'

Is this the correct map to see if I'll be getting FTTH?
https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/communications/topics/Broadband/national-broadband-plan/high-speed-broadband-map/Pages/Interactive-Map.aspx

The map says that my house is in the blue area that has access to "High Spped Broadband" but when I ring up the likes of Eir or Vodafone they say I am too far away from the exchange which is about 1.5km

I currently getting 5mb/s over a copper DSL line. What are the chances of being including in the rural rollout?

BArra

Is your house an amber dot but blue surrounding it? Then you are in the NBP area

S'

BArra wrote: »

Is your house an amber dot but blue surrounding it? Then you are in the NBP area

Unfortunately not:(

rob808

KOR101 wrote: »

There would be uproar if a fibre cable is laid to the house and then speeds are limited to 150mbits. Rural FTTH will almost certainly be offered the exact same packages as town and city FTTH. The only reason 150mbits is being mentioned is because that's the slowest existing FTTH package.

150mb grand plus it FTTH so you always get close to the speed.

oscarBravo

S' wrote: »

Unfortunately not:(

Per this page:

Please contact us at Broadband@DCCAE.gov.ie to let us know if you cannot get high speed broadband from the providers in your area. It would be helpful if you could advise the Department of any operators you may have contacted.

yomamasflavour

There's an email address on the page, saying to contact them if you're in a blue area but aren't actually getting >30mbs.



BLUE areas - where commercial operators are delivering or have indicated plans to deliver high speed broadband services. Operators are continuing to enhance their services in these areas to improve access to high speed broadband. Please contact us at Broadband@DCCAE.gov.ie to let us know if you cannot get high speed broadband from the providers in your area. It would be helpful if you could advise the Department of any operators you may have contacted.



The map is incorrect in a few places, I had to contact them about the estate I live in.

The high horse brigade

I was delighted to hear Pat Kenny himself debunking the 5g myths earlier saying it would need thousands of extra masts and would be nowhere near what's needed. Someone texted in suggesting Low Earth Orbit satellite and he admitted he knew little about it but suspected the latency would make it pretty useless compared to fibre. There's a journalist who does his own research, I'm very surprised newstalk let him away with that.

celticbhoy27

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I was delighted to hear Pat Kenny himself debunking the 5g myths earlier saying it would need thousands of extra masts and would be nowhere near what's needed. Someone texted in suggesting Low Earth Orbit satellite and he admitted he knew little about it but suspected the latency would make it pretty useless compared to fibre. There's a journalist who does his own research, I'm very surprised newstalk let him away with that.

Refreshing to hear. Can you imagine the uproar if we went the wireless route. Every single mast would be objected to. This is an excellent solution. Fibre lines on pre existing poles. Aestheticaly zero impact. Government's wasted money on stupid things through the years this isn't one of them imho. Fair play to Kenny

BarryM

Newstalk's tech guru did a good job this am, based on the information supplied so far.

She says she has a 'conspiracy theory' idea that, existing suppliers of 'bb' whatever it means to them, will be increasing their prices 'cos they will have to provide service to everybody, under the plan. A bit convoluted but I think she interprets the NBP as being a wholesale like network which 'other' suppliers will connect to (at subsidised rates),for providing "last kms" of fibre.

My read of what she is interpreting is she is not correct. She seems to imply that every supplier will be required to respond to a request from an NBP area potential customer for service. I would read it as applying to suppliers already in an NBP amber area, for example, when NBP fibre subsidised backhaul is available, to supply ftth for €100, basic plus usage charges.

I cannot see the likes of Virgin and Sky rushing off to the sticks, away from the leafy suburbs.

NIMAN

With this new figure of €2.7bn - €3bn to get broadband to every home in Ireland, I was wondering would it not be more cost effective to get it to nearly all of them, and then for the Gov to pay the monthly charge for the really rural houses to buy their own service from private companies?

We have a private company now in the extreme NW providing a service to homes for around €35 ---> €55 per month. Admittedly its not superfast, but its wireless and up to 40meg at this time, which I'm sure will increase over time.