NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

trekkypj02

It seems daft, to be honest. There's several premises, just near where my folks live, where the fiber passes them on poles on the road, yet because they are down a short lane they're going to be waiting even longer and be covered by this 'scheme'. And they lose out, while neighbors get it.

Can't say it's surprising, though.

tsue921i8wljb3

Nuphor wrote: »

Website up (has been password protected for months):

https://www.nationalbroadbandireland.ie/

Speeds on day one similar to Eir/Siri offerings (150mb, 1000mb).

Something about McCourt rubs me the wrong way. Why does it require two pictures of his face on the website of a massive infrastructure project?

funnyname

ussjtrunks wrote: »

My fixed wireless is ok get around 20mb at peak so I can wait for them to get it done hopefully it won’t actually take 5 years to get connected. Fairly sure the nearest fibre to me is Mallow so I’m sure it’ll be a long wait though.

What would be nice is if you could register interest in it and they could prioritize though who will actually sign up

We're in the same situation but I hope we get fibre sooner rather than later as there will come a point for the wireless operators where they are better off closing down than continuing to lose customers to the NBI and losing too much money. Unless there is plan to subsidise the FWA operators until the full rollout is completed.

tsue921i8wljb3

BarryM wrote: »

Newstalk's tech guru did a good job this am, based on the information supplied so far.

She says she has a 'conspiracy theory' idea that, existing suppliers of 'bb' whatever it means to them, will be increasing their prices 'cos they will have to provide service to everybody, under the plan. A bit convoluted but I think she interprets the NBP as being a wholesale like network which 'other' suppliers will connect to (at subsidised rates),for providing "last kms" of fibre.

My read of what she is interpreting is she is not correct. She seems to imply that every supplier will be required to respond to a request from an NBP area potential customer for service. I would read it as applying to suppliers already in an NBP amber area, for example, when NBP fibre subsidised backhaul is available, to supply ftth for €100, basic plus usage charges.

I cannot see the likes of Virgin and Sky rushing off to the sticks, away from the leafy suburbs.

LOL tech guru. Another clown.

tsue921i8wljb3

Here is the letter from Robert Watt to Mark Griffin. There are several redactions but the general gist is that the Government seems to bear the risk while McCourt et al get the profits.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/govieassets/8580/6136c9e4240f496eaadb6b6cb19405c3.pdf

fergus1001

NIMAN wrote:

We have a private company now in the extreme NW providing a service to homes for around €35 ---> €55 per month. Admittedly its not superfast, but its wireless and up to 40meg at this time, which I'm sure will increase over time.

Ha ! wireless speed decreases as you add more users, it's a bandaid on an amputated arm

KOR101

Dáil suspended in row over late release of broadband documents

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/oireachtas/d%C3%A1il-suspended-in-row-over-late-release-of-broadband-documents-1.3885029?mode=amp

The Cush

You can find all the NBP released documents here

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/dcb962-documents-relating-to-nbp/?referrer=/nbp

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0508/1048091-nbp_documents/

BarryD2

I am concerned over this plan for a few reasons:

- there seems to be an idea that Eir telephone poles will be used to route cable. If so, this is daft as the standard of telephone poles is poor overall. There's been a lack of maintenance, little investment since Telecom Eireann left - the poles on our road for example are rotting, covered in ivy and subject to not infrequent damage due to storms, branches and trees. Never mind tractor hedge cutters which often nip the telephone wire. Many consumers have abandoned landlines in favour of mobile deals and the pole network has deteriorated. By contrast ESB networks maintain their poles and cut back trees and so on.

- We'd have a village nearby which Eir have served (cherry picked). So whilst we're in an orange area, there's no immediate incentive to get us connected as Eir have hoovered up about 70% of the local population. Can't see Eir being bothered to go up the side roads though. I fear we'd be better off in the arse end of nowhere, a part of the country where Eir have absolutely no interest. The imperative will be to connect these up first.

- I don't like the idea that essentially the people getting this contract seem to be some form of venture capitalists. I'd rather see an actual communications business involved or a semi state working in a similar area like ESB.

The high horse brigade

BarryD2 wrote: »

I am concerned over this plan for a few reasons:

- there seems to be an idea that Eir telephone poles will be used to route cable. If so, this is daft as the standard of telephone poles is poor overall. There's been a lack of maintenance, little investment since Telecom Eireann left - the poles on our road for example are rotting, covered in ivy and subject to not infrequent damage due to storms, branches and trees. Never mind tractor hedge cutters which often nip the telephone wire. Many consumers have abandoned landlines in favour of mobile deals and the pole network has deteriorated. By contrast ESB networks maintain their poles and cut back trees and so on.

- We'd have a village nearby which Eir have served (cherry picked). So whilst we're in an orange area, there's no immediate incentive to get us connected as Eir have hoovered up about 70% of the local population. Can't see Eir being bothered to go up the side roads though. I fear we'd be better off in the arse end of nowhere, a part of the country where Eir have absolutely no interest. The imperative will be to connect these up first.

- I don't like the idea that essentially the people getting this contract seem to be some form of venture capitalists. I'd rather see an actual communications business involved or a semi state working in a similar area like ESB.

What? Eir have nothing to do with this.

Eir are split into 2 different companies, open eir maintain the network, they do not sell broadband. They have trimmed hedges and replaced poles anywhere that have ran their own fibre. It will be the same for this.

Eir who sell broadband like any other telecoms will be able to sell broadband on this new network

Jakey Rolling

funnyname wrote: »

ussjtrunks wrote: »

My fixed wireless is ok get around 20mb at peak so I can wait for them to get it done hopefully it won’t actually take 5 years to get connected. Fairly sure the nearest fibre to me is Mallow so I’m sure it’ll be a long wait though.

What would be nice is if you could register interest in it and they could prioritize though who will actually sign up

We're in the same situation but I hope we get fibre sooner rather than later as there will come a point for the wireless operators where they are better off closing down than continuing to lose customers to the NBI and losing too much money. Unless there is plan to subsidise the FWA operators until the full rollout is completed.

I voiced this concern here a few years ago, and have recently moved from my WISP partly for this reason - yes they are likely to shut down operations once a critical number of customers transfer to fibre. You could be left with no service in the interim until fibre reaches your home.

theguzman

BarryD2 wrote: »

I am concerned over this plan for a few reasons:

- there seems to be an idea that Eir telephone poles will be used to route cable. If so, this is daft as the standard of telephone poles is poor overall. There's been a lack of maintenance, little investment since Telecom Eireann left - the poles on our road for example are rotting, covered in ivy and subject to not infrequent damage due to storms, branches and trees. Never mind tractor hedge cutters which often nip the telephone wire. Many consumers have abandoned landlines in favour of mobile deals and the pole network has deteriorated. By contrast ESB networks maintain their poles and cut back trees and so on.

Eir are constantly replacing poles or else abandoning them due to different routes and going underground, alot of the rotting and decrepit poles often seen when driving are abandoned. In extreme remote locations the poles may need replacing, Eir will be earning money and also winning new customers as a result of the NBP. Going underground for the Rural rollout is not an option unless you prefer the NBP to cost maybe €30bn and take 20 twenty years.

- We'd have a village nearby which Eir have served (cherry picked). So whilst we're in an orange area, there's no immediate incentive to get us connected as Eir have hoovered up about 70% of the local population. Can't see Eir being bothered to go up the side roads though. I fear we'd be better off in the arse end of nowhere, a part of the country where Eir have absolutely no interest. The imperative will be to connect these up first.

You are more likely to be one of the first lot of customers to be served as alot of the pre-existing infrastructure can be utilised get it it out to you. As an amber area you are in the NBP.

- I don't like the idea that essentially the people getting this contract seem to be some form of venture capitalists. I'd rather see an actual communications business involved or a semi state working in a similar area like ESB.

It is much better for it to be run privately, look the gross inefficiency in any state or public body. The HSE is a dumping ground for failed careers, costs nearly €20bn annually and barely resembles a third world health care service. If you have ever dealt with any public body you will know how tedious and useless they are. If it was Publically run it would be another HSE-esque dumping ground for crony connections to draw huge salaries in highly unionised jobs where the mantra is do little to no work but draw a huge salarly and pension from it. Anyone dares challenge it and you go on strike defended tooth and nail by trade unions and the rabid leftwing politicians like Labour, SF PBP etc.

Running it Publicly would be great in an ideal world but the word Public in Ireland means useless as the trade Unions control everything and demand everything. This way is by far the best way, fastest and will deliver the very best technology for it. At €3bn divided by the 4.85 million people in Ireland it is costing €618.00 per person divided by 25 years = €24.75 per year. Most people pay in the region of €40 - €50 for an inferior quality broadband service every month for those lucky enough to get it. The infrastructure is future proofed and will deliver huge economic benefits to Ireland.

Now if the NBP knocked on my door tomorrow I'd say no bother I'll pay it and alot more if I had to.

Likewise I'd happily pay an extra €100 to €200 per year Motor Tax if if the Govt said right we are going building a National network of Motorways to every county leading to intercity and inter provincial connections around the country. Now obviously there is no plans for this but if we took the same negative approach to spending money then we would never progress.

I guess the ESB was bad value back in the 1920's but look what it did for the country. The Luas was bad value too, but Dublin couldn't function without it now. I guess the Motorways to Cork, Limerick etc. were bad value but where would be now without them? These were Public-Private Partnerships too.

I'm afraid with the National Broadband Plan everyone knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.

theguzman

Jakey Rolling wrote: »

I voiced this concern here a few years ago, and have recently moved from my WISP partly for this reason - yes they are likely to shut down operations once a critical number of customers transfer to fibre. You could be left with no service in the interim until fibre reaches your home.

There will be nothing to stop the WISP from offering their connectivity via the NBP, it is open access and they could migrate their customers over to it with the speed benefits it will bring.

ussjtrunks

It would be awesome if the wisps would migrate customers over as it’d save the hassle of transferring supplier again. I like Nova personally cos their customer support actually connects me to a lad in Cork instead of waiting hours to get on to someone in another Country for the likes of Eir

The high horse brigade

ussjtrunks wrote: »

It would be awesome if the wisps would migrate customers over as it’d save the hassle of transferring supplier again. I like Nova personally cos their customer support actually connects me to a lad in Cork instead of waiting hours to get on to someone in another Country for the likes of Eir

Plenty of WISPs already offer migrations to FTTH

BarryD2

theguzman wrote: »

Eir are constantly replacing poles or else abandoning them due to different routes and going underground, alot of the rotting and decrepit poles often seen when driving are abandoned. In extreme remote locations the poles may need replacing, Eir will be earning money and also winning new customers as a result of the NBP. Going underground for the Rural rollout is not an option unless you prefer the NBP to cost maybe €30bn and take 20 twenty years.

Thanks for long & detailed reply - I do know the value of the service. I have an interest in the area as I've been using the internet for small business purposes since the earliest days of dial up modems and promised ISBN etc. We've been an early adopter of any credible service offered in the area, I used to get sales calls 15 years ago from Eircom offering high speed broadband and I'd say 'yes please', only to have the local engineer phone later to say 'no way'.

Now I look at the side roads around here, the telephone poles run along them, they are rotting and decrepit. There's faults on the landline half a dozen times a year and it can take several days to get a technician out to try and find/ patch the line. Trees lean on the wires but hedge cutters are the worst offenders. Eir don't care too much as they get very few line rentals off these lines. I'd get rid of the landline myself except that it's a requirement of sorts for business.

So if you're telling me and I'm reading that National Broadband Ireland is going to reuse this decaying infrastructure, then alarm bells go off. I suspect in many places that Eir will effectively be paid (€1billion?) to replace much of this network of poles as they are not fit for purpose. And after that, will they maintain them?

If they plough and/or duct them along the road side ditches I might be more convinced.

BarryM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

LOL tech guru. Another clown.

OK, lets hear your analysis of the latest technical developments and how they might affect ordinary people. It is easy to be a hurler on the ditch.

Put up or shut up, or apply to newstalk for her job, timewaster.

Mortelaro

The exchange at leaders questions by Micheál Martin focused on Attacking the minister over ignoring the plan B option from the dept of public expenditure civil servants
That plan B was fibre to a village hub and wireless to the rest of us from that hub

Of Course that ridiculous option had to be ignored
Even Timmay Dooley sitting beside him has accepted wireless is no good for this kind of mass use

The other attack was regarding the department saying there'd be no return
To which minister Bruton cleverly replied they had the same attitude on free secondary school education back in the day and look where would we be if that wasn't implemented

Luckily for us,the government doesn't have to put this plan to a vote because regardless of whether FG timed the decision for their own purposes (probably),the opposition would be content if a decision was delayed until after the next election so they could get more mileage out of it

So Batton down folks,let's hope Brexit does us one Actual favour and keeps this government in power until that contract is signed and the vehicles to implement it up and running

BarryM

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Here is the letter from Robert Watt to Mark Griffin. There are several redactions but the general gist is that the Government seems to bear the risk while McCourt et al get the profits.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/govieassets/8580/6136c9e4240f496eaadb6b6cb19405c3.pdf

I thought civil servants were there to a)run the country on the basis of the policies of the current govt. b) to advise the govt of the day on the options for governing.

Anything else? This clown Watt, is he running the country? Who authorised him to release the advice he had given, for wider consumption?

Please don't take it as my view that the gov is super duper, they are politicians, enough said. However, Mr Watt is un-elected.

Johnboy1951

NIMAN wrote: »

With this new figure of €2.7bn - €3bn to get broadband to every home in Ireland, I was wondering would it not be more cost effective to get it to nearly all of them, and then for the Gov to pay the monthly charge for the really rural houses to buy their own service from private companies?

We have a private company now in the extreme NW providing a service to homes for around €35 ---> €55 per month. Admittedly its not superfast, but its wireless and up to 40meg at this time, which I'm sure will increase over time.

Wireless is unsuitable for NBP purposes, it is time to accept that.

####

On the matter of what this NBP contract is likely to cost ..... €2.9 bn over 25 years.
Yet that figure includes two amounts which could easily be considered in a different light.
1. Contingency ... ~€550 ml allocated, but IF the gov have done as careful job as they would have us believe, this will not be needed to be spent.
2. VAT .... ~€350 ml ..... this does not seem to be a pay out from gov coffers but rather an amount that will not be collected, most/all of which would not be generated at all in the absence of the NBP.

So is the potential cost to the state €2 bn should things go according to plan?

If that is the case then it is difficult to know why ministers do not refer to it in place of the €3 bn figure.

oscarBravo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

So is the potential cost to the state €2 bn should things go according to plan?

If that is the case then it is difficult to know why ministers do not refer to it in place of the €3 bn figure.

Presumably because they'd be accused of trying to conceal the "true" cost.

tsue921i8wljb3

BarryM wrote: »

OK, lets hear your analysis of the latest technical developments and how they might affect ordinary people. It is easy to be a hurler on the ditch.

Put up or shut up, or apply to newstalk for her job, timewaster.

I've given plenty of technical details to this forum and hopefully helped many people along the way. I'm sick of people getting national exposure talking about things they clearly don't understand. You said yourself she was giving incorrect information and in my experience this is not the first time.

I've no interest in taking a 'tech' job in Newstalk.

fergus1001

BarryM wrote:

Put up or shut up, or apply to newstalk for her job, timewaster.

Navi has been contributing to this thread from the start and as far as I'm aware has a good back round to have an informed opinion in these matters and couldn't be further from "hurling from the ditch"

Amirani

Mortelaro wrote: »

The other attack was regarding the department saying there'd be no return
To which minister Bruton cleverly replied they had the same attitude on free secondary school education back in the day and look where would we be if that wasn't implemented

Regardless of how one views the National Broadband Plan, that response by Bruton is in no way "clever". It's one of the most common fallacious arguments that is used in deflection. It's such an obvious strawman, if someone thinks that's clever, then they're easily fooled.

Argue for the NBP based on it's merits, don't deflect and just ignore the question you were asked.

Venom

Amirani wrote: »

Regardless of how one views the National Broadband Plan, that response by Bruton is in no way "clever". It's one of the most common fallacious arguments that is used in deflection. It's such an obvious strawman, if someone thinks that's clever, then they're easily fooled.

Argue for the NBP based on it's merits, don't deflect and just ignore the question you were asked.

You would think a politician would be savvier to public concerns regarding the governments spending of billions of euros, considering the over-budget cluster fcuk said government has made of the children's hospital.

Mortelaro

Amirani wrote: »

Regardless of how one views the National Broadband Plan, that response by Bruton is in no way "clever". It's one of the most common fallacious arguments that is used in deflection. It's such an obvious strawman, if someone thinks that's clever, then they're easily fooled.

Argue for the NBP based on it's merits, don't deflect and just ignore the question you were asked.

To be fair,that's exactly what he was doing, arguing on its merits and its downstream benefits which civil servants were ignoring
Exactly what politicians were doing pushing free secondary education
Absolutely no straw man there at all

knipex

BarryM wrote:

I cannot see the likes of Virgin and Sky rushing off to the sticks, away from the leafy suburbs.

Why ??

Broadband providers such as Vodafone are already serving people via thirs party ftth networks (open eir fibre network where it exists). Wholesale prices are set by the regulator..

OneEightSeven

theguzman wrote: »

the infrastructure is future proofed and will deliver huge economic benefits to Ireland.

This is false. There are no economic benefits to bringing fibre to one-off houses. The €3 billion spent on this will never be recouped and seen again.

listermint

OneEightSeven wrote: »

This is false. There are no economic benefits to bringing fibre to one-off houses. The €3 billion spent on this will never be recouped and seen again.

You're wrong


I won't bother getting into the numerous ways why because they are dotted throughout this thread.

But you don't care either way you've had your silly uninformed comment.

Marlow

ussjtrunks wrote: »

It would be awesome if the wisps would migrate customers over as it’d save the hassle of transferring supplier again. I like Nova personally cos their customer support actually connects me to a lad in Cork instead of waiting hours to get on to someone in another Country for the likes of Eir

Airwire, BBnet, Carnsore Broadband, Fastcom, Ivertec, Kerry Broadband, Lightnet, Net1, Northwest Broadband, Nuwave, Regional Broadband, Rocket, Westnet, Wireless Connect and Wizzy are all fixed wireless broadband providers (WISPs), who also offer FTTH on either SIRO or OpenEIR or both.

Plenty of those around.

/M

irishfeen

Sorry if this is a stupid question but at the last point on the new Eir efibre rural FTTH network where it ends what capacity remains at the end point? Could NBI tap into the fibre at this point and basically continue on Eir’s new network or if they are using the Eir exchange would they have to bring a brand new core fibre wire on the same poles as the efibre to start where efibre stops? Basically totally separating the networks completely.

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Sorry if this is a stupid question but at the last point on the new Eir efibre rural FTTH network where it ends what capacity remains at the end point? Could NBI tap into the fibre at this point and basically continue on Eir’s new network or if they are using the Eir exchange would they have to bring a brand new core fibre wire on the same poles as the efibre to start where efibre stops? Basically totally separating the networks completely.

This is the key question. Technically it can be done, this is what is referred to as dark fibre access where NBI would lease some capacity from the fibres in the existing cable. Nothing I have seen so far confirms that they will do this however and open eir may have had complaints about allowing it

It should be done through as it makes the most sense from a labour point of view. To duplicate cables to get to where they need to be is extraordinarily wasteful.

Marlow

OpenEIR have no obligation to provide that product, if they have space in the ducts and on the poles.

And there has only been one case .. ever ... that is known, where they sold dark fibre to an entity .. which is the Aqua Comms fibre from Mayo to Dublin.

/M

crossman47

BarryM wrote: »

I thought civil servants were there to a)run the country on the basis of the policies of the current govt. b) to advise the govt of the day on the options for governing.

Anything else? This clown Watt, is he running the country? Who authorised him to release the advice he had given, for wider consumption?

Please don't take it as my view that the gov is super duper, they are politicians, enough said. However, Mr Watt is un-elected.

Watt is doing his job by advising the government of the risks. They take the final decision. It was the government decided to release the correspondence, not Watt.

irishfeen

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

This is the key question. Technically it can be done, this is what is referred to as dark fibre access where NBI would lease some capacity from the fibres in the existing cable. Nothing I have seen so far confirms that they will do this however and open eir may have had complaints about allowing it

It should be done through as it makes the most sense from a labour point of view. To duplicate cables to get to where they need to be is extraordinarily wasteful.

We would be in absolute ridiculous territory in our situation if Eir did not allow them to tie in with the end of their new network.. It would mean running 4km of untouched fibre on top of Eir fibre from the exchange in order to connect the first house 550m from Eir's network.

Marlow

irishfeen wrote: »

We would be in absolute ridiculous territory in our situation if Eir did not allow them to tie in with the end of their new network.. It would mean running 4km of untouched fibre on top of Eir fibre from the exchange in order to connect the first house 550m from Eir's network.

There is nobody preventing them from also servicing houses on those 4km in reality. But the fact is, that under the regulation of OpenEIR, they can not be forced to offer that product.

Also ... the fibre isn't the costly part. At all. 4km of fibre costs pennies.

/M

irishfeen

Marlow wrote: »

There is nobody preventing them from also servicing houses on those 4km in reality. But the fact is, that under the regulation of OpenEIR, they can not be forced to offer that product.

Also ... the fibre isn't the costly part. At all. 4km of fibre costs pennies.

/M

So what is the main cost? the civil works and tying back into the core network?

Marlow

irishfeen wrote: »

So what is the main cost? the civil works and tying back into the core network?

Yes. Labour is by far the biggest cost. And civils. And licenses to Councils.

Also .. just to put this in perspective:

1km of single strand dark fiber (provincial) under OpenEirs regulated pricing (0.14 EUR/meter/annually) costs the same as nearly 7 poles under the regulated pricing (20.84 EUR/annually/pole).

If the pole pricing is at the reduced pricing (I think 10 EUR/pole was discussed at some point), then thats the same as 14 poles.

What you have to consider is, that if you rent poles, then you can run a cable with multiple fibres along that (32, 48 or 96 core) for that same pole pricing. Now the annual pricing goes way down. And you have to do that, because each single fibre strand can only carry so and so many premises. Like in the case of OpenEIRs rollout 32 premises per fibre strand.

If you were to rent 32 dark fibre stands from OpenEIR for lets say 4km to bring it into your catchment area, the price would now be 17920 EUR/annually. At the pole pricing of 20.84 EUR/pole annually, you could buy access to 860 poles for that money. That's a pole every 4-5m on 4km. And they're usually much further apart. That is capacity for 1024 premises at 32 per fibre strand. The clusters are supposed to be typically 5000 houses.

And there are lots of one off houses left out en route. If you were to buy dark fibre, you would still have to pay for the poles, that you want to fit your DPs en route, to connect these houses.

Take that simple calculation and tell me, if you still want to buy dark fibre by the strand for the capacity that NBI have to carry ?

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

There is nobody preventing them from also servicing houses on those 4km in reality. But the fact is, that under the regulation of OpenEIR, they can not be forced to offer that product.

Also ... the fibre isn't the costly part. At all. 4km of fibre costs pennies.

/M

Of course there is. NBI cannot sell products in an existing open eir FTTH area.

irishfeen

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Of course there is. NBI cannot sell products in an existing open eir FTTH area.

Yes I thought that was the case too.

Mortelaro

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Of course there is. NBI cannot sell products in an existing open eir FTTH area.

Um...I thought NBI is only to be a wholesaler
Ergo it's all existing providers who can sell products, no difference
Seamless

tsue921i8wljb3

Mortelaro wrote: »

Um...I thought NBI is only to be a wholesaler
Ergo it's all existing providers who can sell products, no difference
Seamless

NBI cannot wholesale in an open eir area. If no dark fibre the cable has to be run through these areas to get to the ends that open eir have left behind.

Mortelaro

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

NBI cannot wholesale in an open eir area. If no dark fibre the cable has to be run through these areas to get to the ends that open eir have left behind.

Yes but they're not selling a product in their own area,I thought,that's what I meant ,theyre solely a wholesale entity I thought
Meaning same providers on open Éir as in the NBP, No?

BarryD2

Marlow wrote: »

What you have to consider is, that if you rent poles, then you can run a cable with multiple fibres along that (32, 48 or 96 core) for that same pole pricing....

As I've pointed out above, the elephant in the room is that a good proportion of the existing telephone pole network owned by Eir is unfit for purpose. Anyone who travels the rural roads of Ireland and looks about them will see that. Only politicians and officials who sit in office in Dublin would think otherwise. I'd reckon that much of it was installed by Telecom Eireann or the old Dept of Posts & Telegraphs back in the day. Timber poles only last so long..

So renting poles off Eir means in effect in many places, that Eir will be paid to replace these poles or put in ducting. Telephone lines were generally installed along the county roads, I suppose for ease of access. These roadside ditches are often full of bushes and trees now which have implications for the lines. Whereas ESB lines are more likely to run cross country and have been well maintained on the whole. Just logically if you had to carry cable by poles, the ESB pole network is much more suitable on the whole I'd have thought.

irishfeen

BarryD2 wrote: »

As I've pointed out above, the elephant in the room is that a good proportion of the existing telephone pole network owned by Eir is unfit for purpose. Anyone who travels the rural roads of Ireland and looks about them will see that. I'd reckon that much of it was installed by Telecom Eireann or the old Dept of Posts & Telegraphs back in the day.

So renting poles off Eir means in effect in many places, that Eir will be paid to replace these poles or put in ducting. Telephone lines were generally installed along the county roads, I suppose for ease of access. These roadside ditches are often full of bushes and trees now which have implications for the lines. Whereas ESB lines are more likely to run cross country and have been well maintained on the whole. Just logically if you had to carry cable by poles, the ESB pole network is much more suitable on the whole I'd have thought.

Not particularly, the cost of health and safety alone with crews working on live ESB poles, often 3phase would be astronomical compared with P&T lines.

Mortelaro

I think Éir not maintaining poles is s myth
They replaced 2 on my lane going only to me about a year before I left them,that's 3 years ago

sdanseo

Rural Ireland needs broadband, no one questions that.

But for not only the Sec Gen of the department but his entire senior staff to recommend against something, and then it to be done anyway, absolutely stinks.

Marlow

BarryD2 wrote: »

So renting poles off Eir means in effect in many places, that Eir will be paid to replace these poles or put in ducting.

OpenEIR .. not Eir ..

And also, OpenEIR will incur the cost to replace these poles plus the license fees to councils + labour. Yes.

While NBI in that case pays an annual fee for renting these poles, which is a fixed, calculated cost. It can go both ways. Nobody says they have to use OpenEIRs poles. They can always do their own, but that will probably work out even more costly.

And for the capacity they need, renting dark fibre from OpenEIR at regulated wholesale price will work out even more pricy ... due to the volume they need.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Mortelaro wrote: »

Yes but they're not selling a product in their own area,I thought,that's what I meant ,theyre solely a wholesale entity I thought
Meaning same providers on open Éir as in the NBP, No?

I'm not sure why providers are being brought into it. Yes it is likely there will be the same ISPs on both networks.

What I am talking about is the wastage of time and money if NBI cannot use the existing open eir cabling to reach premises left by open eir. It also has the effect that if you are at the end of an open eir line you may be waiting longer for service as NBI might target "greenfield" areas where there are more premises per metre of cable.

irishfeen

Mortelaro wrote: »

I think Éir not maintaining poles is s myth
They replaced 2 on my lane going only to me about a year before I left them,that's 3 years ago

To be fair it’s not a myth in some places, ESB network is far superior but P&T is easy and safe to work around.