NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

tsue921i8wljb3

BarryM wrote: »

I only said she had a theory, I commented on it.

Why don't you leave this thread, or at least keep your non-relevant comments to yourself.

Take your own advice there champ.

medoc

It would have been so much more efficient if Eir had wanted the tender. Extending their rural FTTH network would have quickly and easily got houses connected. Then building out further and further from there. Bit ridiculous to run another 10 or 20 core fibre cable along poles from a town beside Eirs (mostly) under used cables. I’m lucky I’m on the Eir network but family down the road aren’t. Until the contract is signed it’s all just potentially another election promise.

Ten Pin

Naughten on Newstalk now

cregmon

Ten Pin wrote: »

Naughten on Newstalk now

Anyone know what quantum broadband is?

Update: If its this, then methinks we can safely go ahead with NBP for now
https://www.wired.com/story/quantum-internet-is-13-years-away-wait-whats-quantum-internet/

Johnboy1951

Ten Pin wrote: »

Naughten on Newstalk now

I notice he keeps referring to ~€2 bn which is the hoped for cost of the gov subsidy, with the absolute max set at about €0.5 bn higher.

Orebro

As far as I can see in this case Robert Watt and his Dept know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

We voted in the Gov, not the civil servants.

The Cush

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/1125851850853507072

Classic example if this on Newstalk Breakfast this morning with Timmy Dooley, when asked if FF would withdraw support from government over this or if there was an election before the contract signing would they cancel the process, as you would expect he avoided answering the question.

Can you imagine the field day FG would have if FF withdrew support for the rollout of rural broadband. They are both now locked into this by the rural vote and no politician wants to face the electorate with a further delay on this.

I met my local FG candidate last week, before the cabinet decision on the NBP, I promised him my No. 1 if this got approved and no vote if it didn't. He said he'd have 24,000 votes if he could sort this out for all those who raised the issue with him.

gnf_ireland

Orebro wrote: »

As far as I can see in this case Robert Watt and his Dept know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

We voted in the Gov, not the civil servants.

I think there needs to be a little perspective put on this CAPITAL investment, in the context of the overall government spend. 2019 overall government expenditure will be 76.8bn. ~2 billion is pretty small over 25 years in comparison. Servicing the national debt is 5.5bn, Health is 17bn, Education 10.8bn. Hell child benefit (childrens allowance) alone is 2.1bn of a 20.8bn social welfare budget.
https://whereyourmoneygoes.gov.ie/en/2019/

While FTTP may be viewed as unnecessary to watch Netflix in 2018, in 2025-2030 will assisted healthcare and education become the new norm? Why should students have to travel to cities to attend lectures each day when they could access education remotely. Same with certain second level subjects and collaboration between schools. Healthcare will become a massive burden with an aging population is likely to require serious technology assistance to make it sustainable via wearable devices and patches etc.

And this is before we start talking about security and rural crime. Fibre will support ultra high definition cameras enabling much more sophisticated security systems.

Its a 25 year project with 25 years of costs included. I don't believe for a minute that in 2045 a fully connected fibre network does not generate substantial economic value for the country.

Headshot

Ya I must touch base with my FG candidate and give them my full support

gnf_ireland

The Cush wrote: »

https://twitter.com/john_mcguirk/status/1125851850853507072

Classic example if this on Newstalk Breakfast this morning with Timmy Dooley, when asked if FF would withdraw support from government over this or if there was an election before the contract signing would they cancel the process, as you would expect he avoided answering the question.

Can you imagine the field day FG would have if FF withdrew support for the rollout of rural broadband. They are both now locked into this by the rural vote and no politician wants to face the electorate with a further delay on this.

I met my local FG candidate last week, before the cabinet decision on the NBP, I promised him my No. 1 if this got approved and no vote if it didn't. He said he'd have 24,000 votes if he could sort this out for all those who raised the issue with him.

Absolutely agree. This is all political posturing from the opposition. They all know this is the only show in town and while they will use it to attack the government, they all will support it in the end. There is simply no alternative other than to abandon the project or remove 20% of houses from the project.
And before someone mentions low orbit satellites, I am not convinced it would provide anything close to what fibre can offer. I am open to be corrected though based on in-life examples rather than promises from Musk !

The Cush

gnf_ireland wrote: »

And before someone mentions low orbit satellites, I am not convinced it would provide anything close to what fibre can offer. I am open to be corrected though based on in-life examples rather than promises from Musk !

It can't, full stop. Nothing beats fibre for rural Ireland.

The Cush

Ten Pin wrote: »

Naughten on Newstalk now

Podcast here - https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-pat-kenny-show/td-denis-naughten-national-broadband-plan

if this falters between now and the signing of the contract I don't honestly ever believe we will get high-speed broadband into rural Ireland. I believe for generations to come we'll be talking about hap-hazard services … a band-aid situation ...

Another good interview with him on with Sean Bolger's lapdog Ivan Yates on the evening of the cabinet announcement - https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-hard-shoulder/just-roads-came-electricity-broadband-will-now-delivered-every-townland-ireland-will-leave-lasting-legacy-throughout-country

Good, knowledgeable, common sense interviews, should still be Communications Minister, if only he'd kept DMcC at arms length.

Pique

Timmy Dooley trying to steal the thunder
Serious risk rural broadband may not happen - Fianna Fáil warn

theguzman

Pique wrote: »

Timmy Dooley trying to steal the thunder
Serious risk rural broadband may not happen - Fianna Fáil warn

As if a reason was needed not to vote for the FF Traitor party then it is Timmy Dooley, an incredibly dislikeable character if ever there was. His party looted the Irish treasury to the tune of €200bn and bailed out their corrupt Private Property Developers and lined their own pockets. The Fianna Fail Govt of 2002-2007-2011 should all have been tried for treason after what they did and then this prick tries lecturing the people about wasting money. Obviously Fianna Fail has some corrupt links to WISP and 5G otherwise they wouldn't be so fundamentally opposed to this common sense project. A vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for Corruption, Cronyism and Mass Theft.

ED E

The Cush wrote: »

Podcast here - https://www.newstalk.com/podcasts/highlights-from-the-pat-kenny-show/td-denis-naughten-national-broadband-plan

Contention on FTTC? Sure I guess we can't expect much better from Naughten.

Pique

ED E wrote: »

Contention on FTTC? Sure I guess we can't expect much better from Naughten.

I understood that to be if using wireless to connect. Naughton is well clued in on all this and his interviews in the last couple of days have reinforced this IMO.

celticbhoy27

theguzman wrote: »

As if a reason was needed not to vote for the FF Traitor party then it is Timmy Dooley, an incredibly dislikeable character if ever there was. His party looted the Irish treasury to the tune of €200bn and bailed out their corrupt Private Property Developers and lined their own pockets. The Fianna Fail Govt of 2002-2007-2011 should all have been tried for treason after what they did and then this prick tries lecturing the people about wasting money. Obviously Fianna Fail has some corrupt links to WISP and 5G otherwise they wouldn't be so fundamentally opposed to this common sense project. A vote for Fianna Fail is a vote for Corruption, Cronyism and Mass Theft.

Talks alot but says nothing. He's basically questioning fine gaels intention to deliver but stopping short of saying he would pull the plug on it if empowered to do so. Either way, there'l be no vote for Fianna fail in this house. It's high time rural people were looked after.

The Cush

Pique wrote: »

I understood that to be if using wireless to connect. Naughton is well clued in on all this and his interviews in the last couple of days have reinforced this IMO.

He did make that particular boo-boo alright but overall he's well informed, after so may years dealing with this in the Department.

ED E

He got half way there with describing the limits of satellite at least.

Persiancowboy

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

If the contractor fails to live up to their side, the gov can, at various points in the scheme, step in and take ownership.
If the contractor works to the end of the 35 years and no longer wishes to continue, the gov have the option to purchase the fibre ... not that it would be worth much to anyone except Openeir IMO.
If the contractor goes bust during the roll out then what has been done reverts to state ownership.

In contracts of this nature the successful bidder is always obliged to lodge a very significant bond that can be retained by tenderer in the event of default or whatever. Can't believe NBP contract won't include such a provision.

listermint

Persiancowboy wrote: »

In contracts of this nature the successful bidder is always obliged to lodge a very significant bond that can be retained by tenderer in the event of default or whatever. Can't believe NBP contract won't include such a provision.

Any examples of such a bond in other Irish infrastructure

Ten Pin

Newstalk are fairly off the ball on technology details...

They went to the best and worst places for broadband...
Worst: Longford at 1.6Mbps

Best: Drimnagh at 72Mbps

His figure is long out of date for the best speed.



Yesterday around 5:30 a guy from a company called Host Ireland said that FWA is future proof and that fibre isn't. He said it twice.

Jess made a polite comment contradicting him but he pretty much got away with it unchallenged.

Ivan hadn't a breeze and couldn't challenge him either.

Pique

Ten Pin wrote: »

Newstalk are fairly off the ball on technology details...

They went to the best and worst places for broadband...
Worst: Longford at 1.6Mbps

Best: Drimnagh at 72Mbps

He said seventy two megabits per second (this was the reporter Barry White).

But it is megabit/sec remember.

Anyway, aside from that, I found the source. and it's from that bastion of technology, joe.ie, in 2016!

https://twitter.com/JOEdotie/status/798434406339899392

AlmightyCushion

Pique wrote: »

But it is megabit/sec remember.

Anyway, aside from that, I found the source. and it's from that bastion of technology, joe.ie, in 2016!

https://twitter.com/JOEdotie/status/798434406339899392

Or they took it from the source that Joe used for their article.

shanec1928

listermint wrote: »

Any examples of such a bond in other Irish infrastructure

while may not be relevant , Construction bonds. An estate being built near to me has a 5 or 6 figure bond plus bonds on registered trees( or what ever the term is) lodged to the council.

Ten Pin

But it is megabit/sec remember.

Yes. But 72Mbps is fairly poor for Dublin when Virgin Media are selling 240Mbps and anyone with FTTH is getting minimum 150Mbps.

The point is he didn't do his research on the max speed which far exceeds 72.

wexfordman2

Ten Pin wrote: »

Newstalk are fairly off the ball on technology details...

They went to the best and worst places for broadband...
Worst: Longford at 1.6Mbps

Best: Drimnagh at 72Mbps

His figure is long out of date for the best speed.



Yesterday around 5:30 a guy from a company called Host Ireland said that FWA is future proof and that fibre isn't. He said it twice.

Jess made a polite comment contradicting him but he pretty much got away with it unchallenged.

Ivan hadn't a breeze and couldn't challenge him either.

Newstalks coverage is very biased towards wireless imho, particularly Ivan, and i find it very frustrating hearing himself and PK let commnets away unchallenged on wireless/sattelite etc. They are professional broadcasters, its not much to expect them to be some way knowledgable on the subjects they are discussing.

The Cush

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Newstalks coverage is very biased towards wireless imho, particularly Ivan, and i find it very frustrating hearing himself and PK let commnets away unchallenged on wireless/sattelite etc. They are professional broadcasters, its not much to expect them to be some way knowledgable on the subjects they are discussing.

I find Pat Kenny to be way ahead of Ivan Yates on this, probably his engineering backround, prepared to listen unbiased to the interviewee, mentioned latency when someone texted in earlier in the week about Amazon's low earth orbiting satellites providing broadband as a national solution.

Johnboy1951

The Cush wrote: »

I find Pat Kenny to be way ahead of Ivan Yates on this, probably his engineering backround, prepared to listen unbiased to the interviewee, mentioned latency when someone texted in earlier in the week about Amazon's low earth orbiting satellites providing broadband as a national solution.

Agree ..... now if he would only stop rabbiting on and ask the question and let the interviewee answer, I would find it easier to put up with him.

Heraldoffreeent

So current taxpayer exposure is 3 billion, total project cost is 5 Billion.....currently, according to Minister.

Exclusive of VAT also.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/broadband-cost-set-to-top-5bn-including-private-investment-1.3885560

theguzman

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

So current taxpayer exposure is 3 billion, total project cost is 5 Billion.....currently, according to Minister.

Exclusive of VAT also.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/broadband-cost-set-to-top-5bn-including-private-investment-1.3885560

I would like to see a report on the economic, social and human cost of not making this investment.

The Cush

Heraldoffreeent wrote: »

So current taxpayer exposure is 3 billion, total project cost is 5 Billion.....currently, according to Minister.

€5bn is speculation at the moment. it could be more or less, the detailed design has to be done yet.

Some are saying today GMcC's exposure might only be €500m, others are saying €2-3bn above the government's subvention, numbers are just being thrown around for political impact.

What we know is the government subsidy will be paid in arrears, so NBI will have to have a fairly sizable lump of cash to get this ball rolling, the first subsidy won't be paid until at least 500-600 premises have been passed in any the 110 areas/zones. Lots of works to be done prior to this, design, supplier contracts, fibre etc.

Mahony0509

Fianna Fail are not making a good show of themselves to the electorate with this stance. Worth an email to your local candidate.

The Cush

Mahony0509 wrote: »

Fianna Fail are not making a good show of themselves to the electorate with this stance. Worth an email to your local candidate.

I've already decided not to vote Labour because of Brendan Howlin's position on this and looks like I be doing the same with FF.

Sam Russell

The Cush wrote: »

I've already decided not to vote Labour because of Brendan Howlin's position on this and looks like I be doing the same with FF.

I've already decided not to vote Labour because of Brendan Howlin.

I have yet to decide on the NBP.

Muahahaha

When rural BB is up and running will people have a choice of operators or will it be a single company? And is there any way to find out when each area is earmarked for actually getting it? Read somewhere that some areas might be waiting 7 years and others 2, have they outlined how long each area will take?

fergus1001

Muahahaha wrote:

When rural BB is up and running will people have a choice of operators or will it be a single company? And is there any way to find out when each area is earmarked for actually getting it? Read somewhere that some areas might be waiting 7 years and others 2, have they outlined how long each area will take?

id say if your up the side of a mountain you will be waiting 7 years and if your just outside a town it will be 2-3 years

The high horse brigade

Muahahaha wrote: »

When rural BB is up and running will people have a choice of operators or will it be a single company?

NBI will be wholsalers, you will have the choice of any provider

glucifer

You'd have to wonder would Airspeed become the preferred provider with the McCourt association.

Tigerandahalf

I'd imagine GMC will be keen to roll this out efficiently. McCourt had stated that this Irish roll out would enable them to acquire contracts in bigger territories. So hopefully that means they have their research done and will roll it out quickly.

They are also an investment fund so presumably interested in a good long term return - pension pots, etc.

I wonder what eir's position/thoughts are on it now.

The Cush

Muahahaha wrote: »

And is there any way to find out when each area is earmarked for actually getting it?

The rollout plan will be published once finalised, post contract signing I assume.

The Cush

glucifer wrote: »

You'd have to wonder would Airspeed become the preferred provider with the McCourt association.

Each provider will have equal access.

The Cush

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I wonder what eir's position/thoughts are on it now.

I would guess a guaranteed €1bn income over the next 25 years would focus your thoughts on a good working relationship with NBI.

Headshot

Cush thanks for those links in your signature, a really good listening to.

I particularly enjoyed the peter Hendrick interview, really answered some of my questions and just reinforces my thoughts that this NBP has to happen

Mortelaro

If you're watching prime time look away now...

zapitastas

Mortelaro wrote: »

If you're watching prime time look away now...

Why?

Mortelaro

Mortelaro wrote: »

If you're watching prime time look away now...

Could someone canonize Adrian Wreckler please:)

Mortelaro

zapitastas wrote: »

Why?

FF going on about 5G and backing up Mr Watt
Adrian Wreckler bringing sense to the debate with the facts thankfully

zapitastas

Mortelaro wrote: »

FF going on about 5G and backing up Mr Watt
Adrian Wreckler bringing sense to the debate with the facts thankfully

Strange stance for FF to take

The Cush

Mortelaro wrote: »

FF going on about 5G

Actually still going on about giving it to the ESB as if they'll do it cheaper.