NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

The Cush

FF had Robert Watt pencilled in for an all day session with the Committee today, in advance of Friday's election as a stick to beat the government with in the final few days of electioneering. Rightly snubbed their invite.

Instead we hear from the Dept officials the NBP could be up to €1bn cheaper, don't think it got a mention on the show tonight.

marno21

The Cush wrote: »

Instead we hear from the Dept officials the NBP could be up to €1bn cheaper, don't think it got a mention on the show tonight.

Pity there wasn't Government representation. Verona Murphy was on (FG) but she is unelected and far from prominent enough to answer questions.

Of course FF weren't going to mention the €1bn possibility tonight. Mind you, had FG followed Robert Watt's advice and pulled the plug, they'd be ranting no end about the Government failing the people of rural Ireland.

I thought Naughten came across well to be honest given the level of abuse he has got on the issue.

clohamon

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

University of Limerick Professor slating it on Virgin.

Very late entry into NBP debate by two(three) U/L Profs looks less like a serious contribution and more like brand promotion for University of Limerick economics dept.

https://twitter.com/stephenkinsella/status/1126593658998988807

I didn't see the program last night but their basic point for the last six months is that single bidder auctions are a bad idea. Who knew?

tsue921i8wljb3

There are valid criticisms though. Now it appears that the full costs will appear on the State's balance sheet. This was supposedly one of the main reasons for choosing the gap funding model.

Denis Naughten wrote:

While I recognise the potential long-term value in the State owning any network that is built, I am advised that under a Full Concession Model, the entire cost of the project would be placed on the Government's Balance Sheet, with serious implications for the available capital funding over the next five to six years. Given that both models will deliver the same services and be governed by an almost identical contract(s), I cannot justify reducing the amount of money available to Government for other critical priorities such as Climate Change, Housing and Health, over the next six years.

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/press-releases/Pages/“It’s%20a%20decision%20on%20the%20scale%20and%20significance%20of%20rural%20electrification%20in%20the%20last%20century”%20–%20Minister%20Denis%20Naughten.aspx

It's like the Department have been blindsided at every turn and this juggernaut of a project is too big or too advanced to stop. I just hope it doesn't blow up in their face.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/full-broadband-costs-will-be-included-on-state-balance-sheet-1.3901187

is_that_so

marno21 wrote: »

Pity there wasn't Government representation. Verona Murphy was on (FG) but she is unelected and far from prominent enough to answer questions.

Of course FF weren't going to mention the €1bn possibility tonight. Mind you, had FG followed Robert Watt's advice and pulled the plug, they'd be ranting no end about the Government failing the people of rural Ireland.

I thought Naughten came across well to be honest given the level of abuse he has got on the issue.

It's an absolute Catch 22 and an opportunity for anyone who is not on board with this version of it to make hay. It does need to be done but all that can really be done is to minimise cost to the exchequer over the lifecycle of the project.

clohamon

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

There are valid criticisms though. Now it appears that the full costs will appear on the State's balance sheet. This was supposedly one of the main reasons for choosing the gap funding model.[/url]

It's like the Department have been blindsided at every turn and this juggernaut of a project is too big or too advanced to stop. I just hope it doesn't blow up in their face.

Agree, but the constant carping by University of Limerick is hard to take.

Their basic point having seemingly read just one document (the redacted KPMG ownership report) was that the rationale for gap funding - and hopefully a lower price - was now absent because there was only one bidder and the competitive tension had been lost.

They then found out that there might be another reason for gap-funding ie 'balance sheet management'. But neither DCCAE nor DPER seem to know whose idea it was.

I am advised that under a Full Concession Model, the entire cost of the project would be placed on the Government's Balance Sheet, with serious implications for the available capital funding - Denis Naughten

Revisiting the "gap funding" approach / private sector ownership model - which we understand was largely driven by the (unsuccessful) objective of keeping the project off balance sheet. - Robert Watt - Secretary General, DPER

One of the UL guys then claimed that it was obvious and inevitable from the beginning that eircom would get their way and that eircom and SIRO would leave the process, and that DCCAE officials should have known this since the day the 300K was announced back in June 2015.

Worst of all, neither of the U/L academics has a clue how to get to a better place, other than wishful thinking or proposals that clearly break State Aid rules.

And finally, at least one of them finds it impossible to absorb new information unless it suits his argument - odd for an academic.

NewClareman

oscarBravo wrote: »

Put up or shut up: can you explain how Internet traffic can be carried from a customer's LAN to an Internet server without using the Internet Protocol?

I'm not interested in how "confident" you are. I'm not interested in debates you've had about protocol use in high performance environments. I want to know how my laptop can ping 8.8.8.8 without using the Internet Protocol.

Details, please.

From a user perspective, you'll use the Internet exactly as before. Ping, traceroute, whatever, will also work exactly as before.


Internet communication (whether IPv4 or IPv6) over non-IP networks happens all the time.
As examples, Next Generation Networks (NGN's) are MPLS based at their core, and Metropolitian Area Networks (MAN's) are cell/ATM based.
The current iteration of the National Broadband Plan, proposes that MAN's are used, where available. NGN's are ubiquitious and form part of the core connectivity of the Internet.

Networking Layers

In simple terms, you can consider networking as a series of layers, see below. The IP Protocol sits on top of the underlying layers, as shown. The underlying layers provide connectivity and routing, transparent to the IP layer. However, how information is actually transferred or routed across networks varies, depending on the network type. With NGN's and MAN's so-called "tunnels" can be set up to carry the IP packets from a to b.

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| | Lower network layers | |
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|Media layers |
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Using tunnels requires connection-orientated networks and it is very unlikely that SpaceX will take that approach. In any case, use of tunnels is inefficient and capacity is at a premium in the space segment. Therefore it is likely that some form of protocol mapping, where packet headers and functions such as traffic prioritization are translated from one protocol to another, will be used. This was widely used in the early days of the internet to allow traffic be carried over networks such as X25 and Frame Relay.

There is massive IPR involved in the protocol area, so we might never get the full details.

oscarBravo

I know how the OSI model works, thank you. If Elon wanted to convey that he was proposing a new data link layer protocol, I'd have expected him to say that it was "simpler than Ethernet" or "simpler than frame relay", not "simpler than IPv6" - especially since supporting IPv6 is a bare minimum requirement for any new transmission platform.

Also, the idea that we'd never get the full details of how a data link layer protocol works is just bizarre, considering that the entire concept of how the Internet works has been based on open protocols for half a century.

Finally, MANs use ATM? Pretty sure they use Ethernet.

ednwireland

rodge123 wrote: »

The more I hear Casey the more my blood boils, look at utter tripe in his leaflet on the national broadband plan, listening to him on radio and nobody challenges him his nbp statements.
Does he have shares in a certain wireless operator by any chance?!

Aside from nbp, what have most the items on his leaflet got to do with the role of an MEP!

I got the leaflet I don't even know what his statement means apart from gov. bad. something something something.

NewClareman

oscarBravo wrote: »

I know how the OSI model works, thank you. If Elon wanted to convey that he was proposing a new data link layer protocol, I'd have expected him to say that it was "simpler than Ethernet" or "simpler than frame relay", not "simpler than IPv6" - especially since supporting IPv6 is a bare minimum requirement for any new transmission platform.

Also, the idea that we'd never get the full details of how a data link layer protocol works is just bizarre, considering that the entire concept of how the Internet works has been based on open protocols for half a century.

Finally, MANs use ATM? Pretty sure they use Ethernet.

I was showing the Internet model, though I agree it is similar to the Lower 3 layers of the OSI model.
I didn’t suggest for a moment that Elon was suggesting a layer two protocol.
When he said simpler than IPV6 I expect that he meant just that - a routing protocol:

• without the unnecessary overhead of IPv6.
• that is specifically tailored to the requirements of intra-Satellite handoffs and other design issues.

The IPR relates to the transport/routing within the space segment, an area totally within the control of SpaceX, that is breaking new ground. They are under no obligation to publish that work, to the advantage of their competitors. I would be amazed if they do.

You may be right on the MAN protocols currently in use. The first MANs deployed in Ireland used ATM, but that might have changed.

ED E

As much as I love nostalgia tech can we loop back to the topic at hand?

NewClareman

ED E wrote: »

As much as I love nostalgia tech can we loop back to the topic at hand?

Indeed.
I’m bowing out of this thread as I suspect there will be no meeting of minds. I’m all for rural broadband, but consider the current proposal as ‘Leo’s folly’. Best of luck...

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

Did anyone see the Communications Committee discussion with the Dept. of Communications officials today?

Only caught snippets of it on my mobile due to other commitments, wouldn't be fair to comment without seeing the whole discussion. Hope to look at it over the coming days.

Had a read through it today. One thing that struck me was the view of Ciarh and previously expressed by Richard Bruton that the network will not be a great asset to NBI at the end of 25 years.

Ciarh wrote:

There is not a likelihood of very high profitability in this business at year 25.

This seems to be the narrative from the Department now that is used to justify the ownership model chosen.

They are also under the impression that the cabling will have to be replaced after 35 years when there is no guarantee of this.

Another thing is the influence eir will have in the pace of the project, especially at the beginning.

Patrick Neary wrote:

Why is it seven years? The scope of the project involves a substantial ramp up period. In the first year the IT systems are put in place and service providers who will sell the service are brought on board so they can sell the services. Parallel with that the bidder will be doing detailed designs. That involves people going down every road and boreen in the countryside to identify what existing infrastructure can or cannot be reused and then producing a low level design that is the optimum design for the location. That is the first effort involved. That leads to an order to be placed to Eir to remediate its infrastructure if that is the infrastructure that will be used. That is substantial work in itself.

So the rate at which eir make ready the infrastructure will dictate the pace of the project. There has to be the possibility at least for eir to delay things if it is in their strategic interest leading to knock-on issues for NBI under the contract.

There was also a lot about Tetrad Corporation and the makeup of the holding companies above NBI and who exactly has equity in the project. This questioning came mainly from Timmy Dooley.


As an aside why does Boards' editor mangle words with fadas? I was trying to use Ciaran's proper name above and failed.

clohamon

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Another thing is the influence eir will have in the pace of the project, especially at the beginning.

So the rate at which eir make ready the infrastructure will dictate the pace of the project. There has to be the possibility at least for eir to delay things if it is in their strategic interest leading to knock-on issues for NBI under the contract.

Minister Bruton also identified 'encroachment' as a key risk to the plan. Not sure if he was just thinking of Imagine.

The Deputy raised the question of whether there is encroachment and what happens if others encroach. There is a limited pot, which the State has capped, where if there is an encroachment by a new company that enters and makes the commitment to deliver absolutely 100% to a part of this area, there will be compensation. In other words, if the 540,000 is reduced again by a new entrant who makes a commitment to deliver high-speed broadband, there is an exposure but that is capped.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_communications_climate_action_and_environment/2019-05-14/2/

Johnboy1951

I still have not figured out what the situation would be, in regard to sub and legal position, should openeir or Siro or other company decide in the morning to run fibre into the NBP area from a number of exchanges around the country.

The homes on those roads would then be passed by a commercial operator and it is the implications of that which seems to be a bit 'up in the air'.

Would it kill the contract completely?
Would it cause a withdrawal of support from EU?

What would it mean? (besides whichever company did it receiving the wrath of rural dwellers almost everywhere)

I watched the Yates rubbish the other night and besides his promotion of 5G being cut from under him, the huge item that was left hanging out there was the comparative cost of initial €500 mil and the now €3 bn without a clear statement that the two roll outs were not in any way comparable, the cheaper one being isolated fibre to villages for distribution by whoever would take on the job, and the present scheme FTTH for all premises.

I can understand why the second scheme is preferred .... it wipes out the rural/urban digital divide completely. The first scheme would not do so. In fact it would more deeply embed that divide.

I predict that in 10 years time openeir will own the fibre laid under the NBP.
All is needed is an agreement between openeir and GMC on how the pole rental costs are to be paid.
Those costs could easily be deferred, in part or full, and the fibre taken into ownership in place of cash payments.
Alternatively openeir could just hope they are in a position to buy the fibre at that time.

I really do not see GMC being in this for any longer than they need to be ..... and their need seems to be to bolster their CV while making a small but reasonable profit.

Marlow

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I still have not figured out what the situation would be, in regard to sub and legal position, should openeir or Siro or other company decide in the morning to run fibre into the NBP area from a number of exchanges around the country.

All of that is being ignored, because a good chunk of these houses are already commercially served. A good few even with 30 Mbit/s and more.

/M

Orebro

Marlow wrote: »

All of that is being ignored, because a good chunk of these houses are already commercially served. A good few even with 30 Mbit/s and more.

/M

You don't mean WISPs I hope.

Ten Pin

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/joint_committee_on_communications_climate_action_and_environment/2019-05-22/2/

Mr. Fergal Mulligan
----but I have spent a couple of hours in a room with both sets of lawyers this morning on that very point of the shareholder agreements that have to be put in place, which underpin the contract. In any of these public private partnerships, PPPs, or large infrastructure projects, there is a spider's web of contracts that are signed by lots of different individuals, including the Minister. For example, we have direct agreements with the subcontractors and we will even have a direct agreement with KN Network Services and Actavo, for example. It will always go above National Broadband Ireland in the context of the committed agreements and legal ability to enforce the contract. NBI is the broadband company but the obligations do not just sit with it; they flow all the way to the people who have put in their bid. They have to honour the contract. What is the cause and effect? They could lose all their money. If they put in more money and it collapses they could lose that money. They can lose all that and we have a charge over all the assets that are built until the full contract is honoured for 25 years. It is like any bank that has a mortgage with a homeowner. The homeowner is not off the hook until he or she fully honours the mortgage. We have the same arrangement with this bidder and the assets. If there is an asset there of fibre cable, we have a charge over all assets that are built and funded through National Broadband Ireland.

Possible reason for Eir & Siro withdrawal? Too much red tape and entangled contracts?

recyclebin

Hardly any different to the PPP schemes for the motorways. I'd imagine the same rules apply. It all comes down to risk versus reward for companies like Eir and SIRO.

Marlow

Orebro wrote: »

You don't mean WISPs I hope.

Of course I do. And there are plenty of them that deliver a rock solid service.

/M

Orebro

Marlow wrote: »

Of course I do. And there are plenty of them that deliver a rock solid service.

/M

No, there aren’t. There may be plenty that have rock solid customer service, support etc, but not when it comes to supplying solid 30Mbps when you need it in the evenings. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

The high horse brigade

Orebro wrote: »

No, there aren’t. There may be plenty that have rock solid customer service, support etc, but not when it comes to supplying solid 30Mbps when you need it in the evenings. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

That's a bit of s general statement. How many wireless providers have you experienced and with what technology?

Headshot

My Company works with many WISP always found them extremely dodgy connections and would never recommend them to businesses that need a stable 24/7 connection.

Plus your reliant on line of site
Planning permission
weather
etc

far to many variants

ussjtrunks

Honestly I cant say bad about my WISP connection at minimum on like sunday evening I get around 20mb considering my dsl connection was <1mb its a big improvement. And it is stable as I game on it all the time, jitter is around 4-5ms.

Saying that If they came around with 150mb fibre in the morning I'd be signed up instantly lol but I would miss their customer service, I would hope they switch to reselling fibre but I dunno how much these companies have invested in the tech they use currently.

Orebro

The high horse brigade wrote: »

That's a bit of s general statement. How many wireless providers have you experienced and with what technology?

Three different WISPs, all fine during the day but speeds took an absolute nosedive in the evenings. I would say from reading this forum I’m far from being alone.

There appears to be some vested interests here that think WISPs are owed a living based on the misery of people that have no other choice.

The high horse brigade

Headshot wrote: »

My Company works with many WISP always found them extremely dodgy connections and would never recommend them to businesses that need a stable 24/7 connection.

Plus your reliant on line of site
Planning permission
weather
etc

far to many variants

Line of sight - yes but
Planning permission?
Weather?

Headshot

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Line of sight - yes but
Planning permission?
Weather?

Yup

I've heard of case of planning permissions for antenna's, I don't know the ins and out of it but definitely heard about it

The weather one is an easy one to explain, wind masts/antenna a recipe for disaster

The high horse brigade

Headshot wrote: »

Yup

I've heard of case of planning permissions for antenna's, I don't know the ins and out of it but definitely heard about it

The weather one is an easy one to explain, wind masts/antenna a recipe for disaster

You spreading urban myths now?

You need planning permission for a mast, you do not need planning permission for an antenna.

Most wireless technologies use sectors and solid CPE. These are not really that directional and the wind and rain has no effect on them.

Trust me, I've installed enough of them in a previous job.

The high horse brigade

Orebro wrote: »

Three different WISPs, all fine during the day but speeds took an absolute nosedive in the evenings. I would say from reading this forum I’m far from being alone.

There appears to be some vested interests here that think WISPs are owed a living based on the misery of people that have no other choice.

I have no affiliation with any of them, it's an industry I did work in for a few years 10 years ago.

Not all technologies are the same, not all providers are the same. There are a few actually doing a decent job TBH. There are even a few who have made the move to also offer fixed line services. I myself have just moved my VDSL from Vodafone to a provider with years of being a WISP and am finding nice peering bandwidth improvements compared to Vodafone and lower pings to a server I run in Germany

Marlow

Orebro wrote: »

No, there aren’t. There may be plenty that have rock solid customer service, support etc, but not when it comes to supplying solid 30Mbps when you need it in the evenings. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.

Orebro wrote: »

Three different WISPs, all fine during the day but speeds took an absolute nosedive in the evenings. I would say from reading this forum I’m far from being alone.

There appears to be some vested interests here that think WISPs are owed a living based on the misery of people that have no other choice.

So you have tried 3 providers ... out of over 50 providers registered with Comreg providing fixed wireless broadband services in Ireland. And you feel that you can slate them all on a less than 10% subset ?

Do you know, how many different fixed wireless technologies are out there ? Do you know, how each of these 50+ providers build and manage their network ? Your aggravation and contempt of fixed wireless providers and solutions in this thread has been evident. Vested interests are neither here nor there, as you're not objective either.

And yes .. fixed wireless has it's limitations. But do you know, how many of OpenEIRS ADSL2+ exchanges only are fed with 24 Mbit/s total ? So ... it doesn't really matter, if you have a 1 Mbit/s sync or a 6 Mbit/s sync on your ADSL line ... at the end of the day .. you have 1-2 Mbit/s at peak time. And that's so much better than a slightly contended fixed wireless provider ?

And yes .. FTTH also is contended. 15:1 on the last mile .. worst case .. unknown, what the contention is like upstream ... because it depends on how the provider did build their network. Disregardless of tech. Fibre is not going to fix that.

/M

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

And yes .. FTTH also is contended. 15:1 on the last mile .. worst case .. unknown, what the contention is like upstream ... because it depends on how the provider did build their network. Disregardless of tech. Fibre is not going to fix that.

/M

Ah hey look there is a minimum spec set out for nbp so I don't think that will come into it.
Look there are some terrible wisp out there that don't really care as long as they are make the the most profit possible. That kinda drags the name of other providers down with them. That's not potential consumers fault. Blame com reg or the government for not giving com reg teeth.

False Prophet

Still think it's not going to happen. Announcement was for local elections. Next they be about to sign around the general election , on basis they get reelected. Then it will be put on long shoulder as too expensive or due to Brexit bla bla. And the whole thing to restart again in a few years.

Orebro

Marlow wrote: »

Your aggravation and contempt of fixed wireless providers and solutions in this thread has been evident. Vested interests are neither here nor there, as you're not objective either.

/M

Perhaps you could let us know which WISP you are affiliated with, since you feel so strongly for them to remain part of the Irish broadband equation?

Headshot

The high horse brigade wrote: »

You spreading urban myths now?

You need planning permission for a mast, you do not need planning permission for an antenna.

Most wireless technologies use sectors and solid CPE. These are not really that directional and the wind and rain has no effect on them.

Trust me, I've installed enough of them in a previous job.

Sorry Im only going by my experiencing with working in I.T.

We always find WISP unreliable and would recommend to customers to use it as a backup solution rather than the primary.

Yes i'm positive that weather does have some influence on wireless broadband, now it could be the case that maybe the antenna isnt locked down enough but definitely there's some truth to it.

I rather be stuck with a rock stead DSL 20MB link than going down the WISP route but that's my own personal experience

listermint

Headshot wrote: »

Sorry Im only going by my experiencing with working in I.T.

We always find WISP unreliable and would recommend to customers to use it as a backup solution rather than the primary.

Yes i'm positive that weather does have some influence on wireless broadband, now it could be the case that maybe the antenna isnt locked down enough but definitely there's some truth to it.

I rather be stuck with a rock stead DSL 20MB link than going down the WISP route but that's my own personal experience

Quite an accurate one tbf.

The high horse brigade

Headshot wrote: »

Sorry Im only going by my experiencing with working in I.T.

We always find WISP unreliable and would recommend to customers to use it as a backup solution rather than the primary.

Yes i'm positive that weather does have some influence on wireless broadband, now it could be the case that maybe the antenna isnt locked down enough but definitely there's some truth to it.

I rather be stuck with a rock stead DSL 20MB link than going down the WISP route but that's my own personal experience

Which wireless technology? There are many.

listermint

Suspicious amount of pro wisp posts the last week.

Attacking users who have had a bad experience with it.

Odd.

Very odd.

Headshot

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Which wireless technology? There are many.

CPE mostly

I'm conscious this WISP stuff is derailing this thread tbh so I'm going to let it go.

Lets just agree to disagree

listermint wrote: »

Suspicious amount of pro wisp posts the last week.

Attacking users who have had a bad experience with it.

Odd.

Very odd.

People have vested interests unfortunately.

The high horse brigade

listermint wrote: »

Suspicious amount of pro wisp posts the last week.

I am not pro WISP. I'm also no longer working in the industry, nor am I affiliated with any of them. It's just an area I have some experience and take an interest in. I do believe the only way to deliver rural broadband is through fibre. What i do know is that some WISPs (not Imagine) are doing their best with what they have at the moment and already are providing decent services. I'm just trying to dispel the urban myths being spouted here that all Wireless is bad, some can be very good if done right and you have a perfect set of circumstances (fibre at the mast and clear line of sight). I have also seen first hand the limitations of wireless rollouts which makes it unsuitable for a nationwide plan like this.

Johnboy1951

The high horse brigade wrote: »

I am not pro WISP. I'm also no longer working in the industry, nor am I affiliated with any of them. It's just an area I have some experience and take an interest in. I do believe the only way to deliver rural broadband is through fibre. What i do know is that some WISPs (not Imagine) are doing their best with what they have at the moment and already are providing decent services. I'm just trying to dispel the urban myths being spouted here that all Wireless is bad, some can be very good if done right and you have a perfect set of circumstances (fibre at the mast and clear line of sight). I have also seen first hand the limitations of wireless rollouts which makes it unsuitable for a nationwide plan like this.

It might help if those 'good' wisps were named along with the masts which are fibre fed and have solid connections that do not drop through the floor during peak use.

Imagine has been named many times, but where is the balance?

Name the good ones so potential customers can know and not believe all are like Imagine are portrayed.

The high horse brigade

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

It might help if those 'good' wisps were named along with the masts which are fibre fed and have solid connections that do not drop through the floor during peak use.

Imagine has been named many times, but where is the balance?

Name the good ones so potential customers can know and not believe all are like Imagine are portrayed.

Here's one, I have no affiliation to these what so ever
http://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products/jet

The high horse brigade

Headshot wrote: »

CPE mostly

What?
Now I know you haven't a clue what you're talking about. A CPE is the receiver, Customer Premises Equipment :eek:

Marlow

Orebro wrote: »

Perhaps you could let us know which WISP you are affiliated with, since you feel so strongly for them to remain part of the Irish broadband equation?

I am here in my personal capacity. I am voicing an objective opinion based on my experience .. which is over 20 years in the industry and that in 5 countries.

What do any affiliations to do with it ? You need to stop with personal digs at people, when you don't like what they tell you.

listermint wrote: »

Suspicious amount of pro wisp posts the last week.

Attacking users who have had a bad experience with it.

Odd.

Very odd.

There is no problem with telling people about the bad experiences they had with it. There is a problem, when you condemn a whole segment of the industry based on that experience without knowing the ins and outs and not even differentiating between different technologies.

One can't just support to kill off 50+ businesses, because one has had bad experiences with 3.

And nothing odd about it. It gets to a point, where this type of nonsense has to be weeded out. Fixed wireless has it's merits. It's down to who build the network and how it is managed.

And even the government accepted as part of the NBP contract, that some premises would not be able to be covered in any other way.

The technology won't scale to the extend of what can be done with fibre. But it is well capable of delivering the speeds required by the contract. Consistently.

/M

ED E

I'm the one branded an Eir/OpenEir fanboy so I suppose I have standing to say Marlow has been pretty fair on the limitations of FWA/MNO techs and has come down on Imagine for technical reasons before. He might be *slightly* optimistic about some of it, but only slightly.


Pretending wireless solutions don't exist is silly as they will impact uptake and profitability of FL services.

The high horse brigade

Originally Posted by Johnboy1951 View Post
It might help if those 'good' wisps were named along with the masts which are fibre fed and have solid connections that do not drop through the floor during peak use.

Imagine has been named many times, but where is the balance?

Name the good ones so potential customers can know and not believe all are like Imagine are portrayed.

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Here's one, I have no affiliation to these what so ever
http://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products/jet

Some terrible reviews for them

http://ratemyisp.ie/ratings/airwire/

The high horse brigade

DubInMeath wrote: »

Some terrible reviews for them

http://ratemyisp.ie/ratings/airwire/

Indeed they have many product offerings down through the last 15 years using different technologies. Are any of those reviews are for the Jet product and within the few KM of the masts in the link I provided? The last review there was 3 years ago. Generally a rate my ISP site will only get bad reviews, just like the support forum on here only has people with issues, costumers happy with their service generally don't complain

The high horse brigade

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Indeed they have many product offerings down through the last 15 years using different technologies. Are any of those reviews are for the Jet product and within the few KM of the masts in the link I provided? The last review there was 3 years ago. Generally a rate my ISP site will only get bad reviews, just like the support forum on here on has people with issues, costumers happy with their service generally don't complain

But they do also tend to leave positive reviews if they are happy. I've certainly do and I also post negative reviews when I've had negative experiences especially consistent negative experiences.

I had nothing but negative experiences with some satellite resellers and posted the appropriate review on that site. I'm better off with the dsl connection that I have than something next to useless.

I also have family in Galway who used that company and they got rid of them as soon as their contact ended due to the lack of quality in their service and their support staff.

The high horse brigade

DubInMeath wrote: »

But they do also tend to leave positive reviews if they are happy. I've certainly do and I also post negative reviews when I've had negative experiences especially consistent negative experiences.

I had nothing but negative experiences with some satellite resellers and posted the appropriate review on that site. I'm better off with the dsl connection that I have than something next to useless.

I also have family in Galway who used that company and they got rid of them as soon as their contact ended due to the lack of quality in their service and their support staff.

The last Airwire review was 2016, hardly a site you could use to advise people of the latest offerings. Complaints made a few years ago aren't really valid, I complained about mine 5 years ago, now i have 90/20 VDSL

Once again I was asked to link to a service that works well and I know first hand the Airwires Jet service I linked to (is one of the many different technologies they offer) that does work well for anyone who has short distance to these masts and clear line of sight.

Which service did they have? I bet it wasn't this new technology.
http://www.airwire.ie/index.php/products/jet

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

One can't just support to kill off 50+ businesses, because one has had bad experiences with 3.




/M

If it's the only three wisp in the area then it's a 100% fail. Are you saying the other 50 are all good. I am not trying to attack you here only pointing out some things.My current provider is a wisp I am getting 20 down 4.5 up at peak times not bad can't really complain. Then again I am paying 50 down. Data cap at 25g a day
If I was paying for fiber would I be getting closer to the 50 down? Would I have a data cap?

dashoonage

I'm on a bbnet wireless service for 11 years now. I wouldn't change from it for anything less that fibre. It has been 100% reliable bar a few minor issues which any provider would have such as equipment failure and I cant fault them for their repair time.

Yes there are some who provide shoddy services in this country but there are some in Ireland who provide fantastic service. Don't be quick to paint them all with the same brush.