NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Gonzo

the blue lines on the map are very accurate where i live, stop right at the last pole on the end of our cul de sac and on the back road behind our house the blue line extends down through ribbon development and then stops where the houses become more far apart.

rob808

Gonzo wrote: »

the blue lines on the map are very accurate where i live, stop right at the last pole on the end of our cul de sac and on the back road behind our house the blue line extends down through ribbon development and then stops where the houses become more far apart.

Eir rural FTTH for people that can't get Efibre and are on NBP map.I think people in FTTC areas are gona have to wait till siro start phase 2 before Eir make there move which most likely be late 2018 or early 2019 because that when siro should be finish there 50 towns.

KOR101

November update now two weeks late. Tender documents must be imminent.

Gonzo

Gonzo wrote: »

the blue lines on the map are very accurate where i live, stop right at the last pole on the end of our cul de sac and on the back road behind our house the blue line extends down through ribbon development and then stops where the houses become more far apart.

I think this is being done top down not bottom up.. ie they site the cabinets based on current needs and the blue lines are wherever the signal happens to end up.

Not that they decide what areas to cover and then work back to where they should site the cabinets to serve those areas.

rob808

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/Monthly%20Reports/November%20update%20template.pdf

dbit

rob808 wrote: »

http://www.dcenr.gov.ie/communications/SiteCollectionDocuments/Broadband/Monthly%20Reports/November%20update%20template.pdf

Ive bumped into one or Two Enet vans and lads blowing fiber all over cork city a few times . They will most likely be a big player in Eir's push . They already use some of Eir's open Wholesale though is that right ?

pegasus1

Just a Question do all the blue lines equate FTTH or are they also including FTTC...Getting FTTH in our house...:D

KOR101

pegasus1 wrote: »

Just a Question do all the blue lines equate FTTH or are they also including FTTC...Getting FTTH in our house...:D

FTTH, not FTTC

rob808

pegasus1 wrote: »

Just a Question do all the blue lines equate FTTH or are they also including FTTC...Getting FTTH in our house...:D

The blue line mean FTTH eir did it to take some of the house in NBP 300,000 out doh if you have FTTC and live in a town you have to wait till eir make announcement like phase 2 like siro will do after phase 1 finish.

Gonzo

I wouldn't be surprised if Eir announce a phase 2 over the next few months for built up areas and get them done before the blue lines even start.

rob808

Gonzo wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Eir announce a phase 2 over the next few months for built up areas and get them done before the blue lines even start.

They most likely will plus siro said phase 2 could run along with phase 1 towns like Trim,Dunshaughlin ,Ratoath would be towns siro and eir would target because of size.I don't think it before blue line more like be in between they might say something in mid 2016 or 2017 there waiting on siro.

damienirel

Gonzo wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if Eir announce a phase 2 over the next few months for built up areas and get them done before the blue lines even start.

They have already started doing the built up areas with FTTH. Also there has been a lot of uncertainty for Eir with the NBP. Once the cash is secured and lets face it - Eir looks like they will win that contract the ball should start rolling. The NBP is the major holdup now but it does seem like they are doing it right and not rushing into things with a private company who is not overly worried about national interest.

murphaph

damienirel wrote: »

They have already started doing the built up areas with FTTH. Also there has been a lot of uncertainty for Eir with the NBP. Once the cash is secured and lets face it - Eir looks like they will win that contract the ball should start rolling. The NBP is the major holdup now but it does seem like they are doing it right and not rushing into things with a private company who is not overly worried about national interest.

That's phase I which was announced before the NBP etc. Eir have planned the FTTH rollout since they began planning the FTTC rollout, hence the spare cores to every cabinet. They got nudged by Siro to get started sooner than they would have liked on the urban FTTH rollout, but it was definitely planned to do this before any NBP stuff.

dbit

murphaph wrote: »

That's phase I which was announced before the NBP etc. Eir have planned the FTTH rollout since they began planning the FTTC rollout, hence the spare cores to every cabinet. They got nudged by Siro to get started sooner than they would have liked on the urban FTTH rollout, but it was definitely planned to do this before any NBP stuff.

Agreed delighted SIRO was born the proverbial fire has been lit under Eir's ..... posterior.

damienirel

murphaph wrote: »

That's phase I which was announced before the NBP etc. Eir have planned the FTTH rollout since they began planning the FTTC rollout, hence the spare cores to every cabinet. They got nudged by Siro to get started sooner than they would have liked on the urban FTTH rollout, but it was definitely planned to do this before any NBP stuff.

Yeah exactly what I tried to explain in first post. Phase 1 or Phase 90 they are already doing it.

damienirel

dbit wrote: »

Agreed delighted SIRO was born the proverbial fire has been lit under Eir's ..... posterior.

Definitely one of the better things that has happened in recent times for improvement in broadband for the country.
I'd hazard a guess the ESB/Vodafone knew about the NBP funding a long time ago though.

The NBP is the one everybody should be watching though - Eir are the only ones in a position to roll anything out to those areas even without funding.
Siro on the other hand have not looked to build any infrastructure in NBP areas. I don't see them being a player outside of towns and cities tbh.

dbit

damienirel wrote: »

Definitely one of the better things that has happened in recent times for improvement in broadband for the country.
I'd hazard a guess the ESB/Vodafone knew about the NBP funding a long time ago though.

The NBP is the one everybody should be watching though - Eir are the only ones in a position to roll anything out to those areas even without funding.
Siro on the other hand have not looked to build any infrastructure in NBP areas. I don't see them being a player outside of towns and cities tbh.

IT really is one big catch all scoop, its the only business model for first stage roll out long term investment versus capital expenditure (Not that they are short on money ). The infrastructure is pretty much there but they wont move out till the heavey saturation areas are all but plugged in.

rob808

damienirel wrote: »

They have already started doing the built up areas with FTTH. Also there has been a lot of uncertainty for Eir with the NBP. Once the cash is secured and lets face it - Eir looks like they will win that contract the ball should start rolling. The NBP is the major holdup now but it does seem like they are doing it right and not rushing into things with a private company who is not overly worried about national interest.

I hope Eir win a good bit of it and siro just hope wisp just get a small bit of it keep them happy.

rob808

To be fair people in rural Ireland need good broadband we being let down so many times and if it delay people getting FTTH in urban areas at least you have good broadband will get FTTH one way or another.I think Eir ok for money and should be able to get the funds for NBP without to much problem more than likely they be doing this waiting on NBP.

oscarBravo

rob808 wrote: »

I hope Eir win a good bit of it and siro just hope wisp just get a small bit of it keep them happy.

Would you be happy if you were one of the premises given to WISPs to keep them happy?

tsue921i8wljb3

oscarBravo wrote: »

Would you be happy if you were one of the premises given to WISPs to keep them happy?

It's a moot point as with maybe three areas or even fewer it is highly unlikely that a WISP could be given a "small bit". It would be a full area or nothing.

rob808

oscarBravo wrote: »

Would you be happy if you were one of the premises given to WISPs to keep them happy?

no but the goverment could do it if wisp give out stink. I would rather siro,Eir, and that Gigabite fibre ltd win and give everyone FTTH because it best future proof technology.
I hope the goverment make the right choice in the tender and pick FTTH for rural Ireland.

oscarBravo

rob808 wrote: »

no but the goverment could do it if wisp give out stink.

Well, that's my point. Giving some people wireless while others get fibre... it wouldn't be right. Sure, (most of) the WISPs would like their business model to continue unchanged, but if their customers want fibre, they're going to have to find a way to provide their customers with fibre or watch someone else do it.

Seriously: how many of a WISP's customers would be pleased if they were told "the government was planning to give you fibre, but we successfully intervened to prevent it"?

A few companies will be unhappy if the NBP is 100% fibre. A lot more taxpayers will be unhappy if they're told that they're stuck with wireless when everyone else is getting fibre. There's only one logical way to do this intervention.

oscarBravo

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It's a moot point as with maybe three areas or even fewer it is highly unlikely that a WISP could be given a "small bit". It would be a full area or nothing.

There's provision in the consultation so far for a given bidder to do part of an area wirelessly. It's a provision that I've argued vigorously against in my submissions to date - fingers crossed.

tsue921i8wljb3

oscarBravo wrote: »

There's provision in the consultation so far for a given bidder to do part of an area wirelessly. It's a provision that I've argued vigorously against in my submissions to date - fingers crossed.

I agree with your stance. As you said in your reply to Rob it would be a condemnation of an area to serve it wirelessly while other areas get state sponsored fibre. That is why I believe it is unlikely to happen. It would be political suicide for any government TDs in the locality.

BandMember

oscarBravo wrote: »

There's provision in the consultation so far for a given bidder to do part of an area wirelessly. It's a provision that I've argued vigorously against in my submissions to date - fingers crossed.

Having had nothing but bad experiences with WISP's, I would argue that there is no way in hell that they should be let near the next NBP nor should they be given one cent of taxpayers money to continue providing their rubbish service. :mad:

KOR101

BandMember wrote: »

Having had nothing but bad experiences with WISP's, I would argue that there is no way in hell that they should be let near the next NBP nor should they be given one cent of taxpayers money to continue providing their rubbish service. :mad:

You could help the wisps by say giving them a 6 month exclusive period to resign their customers as fibre customers.

ED E

KOR101 wrote: »

You could help the wisps by say giving them a 6 month exclusive period to resign their customers as fibre customers.

TBH that'd be pointless. WISPs have the manpower to operate TX points and fit a couple dishes per week. The work involved in running any fixed line service is at least 20 fold. They arent going to be able to hire teams to jump up to that level, the trained personnel out there have all been hired by Siro and eir now.

WISPs time is coming to an end, unfortunately in the interim that may leave a few users in the dark with no option but satellite but its all in the name of progress.

BandMember

KOR101 wrote: »

You could help the wisps by say giving them a 6 month exclusive period to resign their customers as fibre customers.

I stand by my statement.

Every single word of it!!

KOR101

ED E wrote: »

TBH that'd be pointless. WISPs have the manpower to operate TX points and fit a couple dishes per week. The work involved in running any fixed line service is at least 20 fold. They arent going to be able to hire teams to jump up to that level, the trained personnel out there have all been hired by Siro and eir now.

WISPs time is coming to an end, unfortunately in the interim that may leave a few users in the dark with no option but satellite but its all in the name of progress.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I meant a six month exclusive period, to sign their customers up to EIR/SIRO fibre. I don't see why the WISPS can't hang in there as fibre retailers, as opposed to infrastructure providers.

damienirel

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I agree with your stance. As you said in your reply to Rob it would be a condemnation of an area to serve it wirelessly while other areas get state sponsored fibre. That is why I believe it is unlikely to happen. It would be political suicide for any government TDs in the locality.

Not sure TDs are that worried about it, I would like to think they are, but I'm pretty sure it's low down on their list. We can only live in hope. WISPs are a dead end solution but I'd expect it will be the solution that fills in some areas.

All I care about is those blue lines start actually happening soon! Come on Eir!!

bk

WISPs time is coming to an end. Much in the same way that local community TV deflector services came to an end when Sky/Freesat/Saorview got so good that they weren't needed any more.

dbit

bk wrote: »

WISPs time is coming to an end. Much in the same way that local community TV deflector services came to an end when Sky/Freesat/Saorview got so good that they weren't needed any more.

Whats happening tot he MMDS licensing then any one know , sorry for off topic only I would love to know why such a useable spectrum is heading for ground zero ?

Ed/The Cush im sure mentioned it would be gobbled up by LTE possibly ?

bk

dbit wrote: »

Whats happening tot he MMDS licensing then any one know , sorry for off topic only I would love to know why such a useable spectrum is heading for ground zero ?

Ed im sure mentioned it would be gobbled up by LTE possibly ?

Yes, the MMDS services are expected to be shut down next year and the spectrum put out for tender for 4G services.

The Cush

dbit wrote: »

Whats happening tot he MMDS licensing then any one know , sorry for off topic only I would love to know why such a useable spectrum is heading for ground zero ?

Ed im sure mentioned it would be gobbled up by LTE possibly ?

Licences end 18th April.

To be auctioned off by Comreg, possibly as part of multi-band auction. Surprised this hasn't happened already with the current licences ending in a few months time. They might allow UPC a rolling monthly licence until the new licensees are ready to use it.

It will most likely be purchased by the existing MNOs as a capacity band (carrier aggregation) for their 700/800/900 MHz LTE holdings.

dbit

bk wrote: »

Yes, the MMDS services are expected to be shut down next year and the spectrum put out for tender for 4G services.

Yes ive seen alot of posts regarding the TV service and contracts not being renewed for MMDS. Total pisser as that is a viable solution for the min TX RX for NPB requirements. Good synchronus speeds on it too.

ED E

If Wiki is current/correct..

In Ireland, since 1990,[5] UPC Ireland (previously Chorus and NTL Ireland) offer MMDS TV services almost nationwide. The frequency band initially allocated was 2500–2690 MHz (the “2.6GHz band”) consisting of 22–23 8 MHz analogue channels; digital TV was restricted to 2524–2668 MHz, consisting of 18 8 MHz digital channels. Two digital TV standards are used: DVB-T/MPEG-2 in the old Chorus franchise area and DVB-C/MPEG-2 in the old NTL franchise area. The existing licences were to expire 18 April 2014 but Comreg, the Irish communications regulator, extended the licences for a further 2 years to 18 April 2016 at which date they will expire together with all associated spectrum rights of use.

Thats on the higher end of things, high throughput but decreased range. Great for urban areas if they deploy it thoroughly.

The Cush

ED E wrote: »

If Wiki is current/correct..

IIRC I may have updated that particular section on Wikipedia and the information is current. WRC-2000 allocated both ends of the band to satellite IMT resulting in 4x8MHz channels being lost when MMDS converted over to digital in the early part of the last decade and from 2005 the allocation moved to co-sharing with terrestrial IMT as the satellite element was never implemented. In 2008 an EU regulation harmonised it for electronic communications (terrestrial mobile, MMDS etc.), the 4 channels lost to digital MMDS remained vacant even though UPC requested their return to MMDS about 2007/08.

Bill Shock

Bad news I'm afraid......was talking to a guy who operates as one of the WISPs weekend just gone. He says group have told the minister and department they have sent an official competition/state aid complaint to Commission in Brussels as the NBP is going to put them all out of business.

This guy knows what he's talking about so this seems like reliable info. This is all the Plan needed.....more delays while complaint is examined. Hopefully these muppets will get short shrift from the Commission....

tsue921i8wljb3

Bill Shock wrote: »

Bad news I'm afraid......was talking to a guy who operates as one of the WISPs weekend just gone. He says group have told the minister and department they have sent an official competition/state aid complaint to Commission in Brussels as the NBP is going to put them all out of business.

This guy knows what he's talking about so this seems like reliable info. This is all the Plan needed.....more delays while complaint is examined. Hopefully these muppets will get short shrift from the Commission....

It's not at all suprising. They were always going to seek legal recourse.

rob808

Bill Shock wrote: »

Bad news I'm afraid......was talking to a guy who operates as one of the WISPs weekend just gone. He says group have told the minister and department they have sent an official competition/state aid complaint to Commission in Brussels as the NBP is going to put them all out of business.

This guy knows what he's talking about so this seems like reliable info. This is all the Plan needed.....more delays while complaint is examined. Hopefully these muppets will get short shrift from the Commission....

I like to know how they would go out of business since the NBP going to be a open access network.I don't think the goverment favouring anyone company.I think it just they can't supply 30mb and 6 up so they complain instead of getting ready to bid in the tender.

KOR101

Bill Shock wrote: »

Bad news I'm afraid......was talking to a guy who operates as one of the WISPs weekend just gone. He says group have told the minister and department they have sent an official competition/state aid complaint to Commission in Brussels as the NBP is going to put them all out of business.

This guy knows what he's talking about so this seems like reliable info. This is all the Plan needed.....more delays while complaint is examined. Hopefully these muppets will get short shrift from the Commission....

Look on the bright side. It must mean the government is ignoring them in their planning.

pegasus1

Weren't the wisps a stopgap measure..?

MajesticDonkey

rob808 wrote: »

I like to know how they would go out of business since the NBP going to be a open access network.

Because it's human nature to not like change, and for these people, it's going to mean a big change in business for them. This isn't an excuse to not change, but to be fair to them, it's not going to be easy.

rob808

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Because it's human nature to not like change, and for these people, it's going to mean a big change in business for them. This isn't an excuse to not change, but to be fair to them, it's not going to be easy.

well net1 reselling FTTH products Kerry broadband another wisp did a pilot with Enet for FTTH for 400 homes and are doing another two areas.I think it just ripplecom and imagine and the other company's in there round table just want to keep there monopoly and profits they like to keep there grip on rural Ireland.
I think eir and siro should make a complaint against wisp with them wanting to keep there monopoly and not allowing competition in rural Ireland.

Gonzo

hopefully this will finally be the nail in the coffin for wisps, rural Ireland has spent far to long on this outdated, slow, unreliable and expensive tech for far too long.

ussjtrunks

So how are the WISPs going to die? Isn't it still going to be necessary for most of rural Ireland?

Or will the plan bring fibre to houses 5-10 km outside towns?

MajesticDonkey

ussjtrunks wrote: »

Or will the plan bring fibre to houses 5-10 km outside towns?

That's exactly what it's going to do.

See the blue lines here for eir's plans.

BandMember

rob808 wrote: »

I like to know how they would go out of business since the NBP going to be a open access network.I don't think the goverment favouring anyone company.I think it just they can't supply 30mb and 6 up so they complain instead of getting ready to bid in the tender.

They can't supply a fraction of those speeds and they know it - certainly not on a consistent and reliable basis anyway. They know this is end game for them and are only trying to prolong the inevitable. What really annoyed me was Niall Quinn's comments that Ireland would always have WISP's because wired is too expensive, the Government know that and are only fooling people by saying otherwise. As if I didn't hate the p***k beforehand.... :mad:

KOR101 wrote: »

Look on the bright side. It must mean the government is ignoring them in their planning.

I certainly hope so and I imagine that the large percentage of the population who got completely screwed over with being stuck on midband (with it's crappy speeds and even crappier usage limits) after the last NBP are hoping so as well! It's long past time that the Government woke up to the fact that a proper broadband service throughout the country is an essential infrastructure component and not a luxury. If rural Ireland is to have any sort of chance of surviving at all, it needs a proper service from Eir/SIRO - it does not need, nor does it deserve, to be screwed over again and left in the hands of some dodgy WISPS, who would be basically the next Three.

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

Because it's human nature to not like change, and for these people, it's going to mean a big change in business for them. This isn't an excuse to not change, but to be fair to them, it's not going to be easy.

Who cares?? That's the world of business - you change and adapt or you die! Nothing lasts the same forever....

Gonzo wrote: »

hopefully this will finally be the nail in the coffin for wisps, rural Ireland has spent far to long on this outdated, slow, unreliable and expensive tech for far too long.

+1. As I say, the sooner that the WISP and midband snake oil merchants are filed under "extinct", the better!!

ussjtrunks

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

That's exactly what it's going to do.

See the blue lines here for eir's plans.

It still looks like an awful lot of houses fall outside it though , Is it even feasible that Eircom could connect everyone to fibre eventually