NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

Cuddlesworth

Cathbadhian wrote: »

There's an obvious tilt to your reasoning... I'm a professional programmer who writes web applications and contributes heavily to open source (i.e. free to use) software. I'm a member of two international bodies, one a standards organisation, for my programming language of choice. I'm not a farmer, but I do live in a rural area where Eir's standard service has been unchanged since I first had an internet connection established. My house is in the amber category of the recent NBP map.

Seriously though, there are professional working folk out in the country. We just commute to your urban areas, and/or contribute to rent problems, office shortages, traffic congestion, put up with high time/operating costs, and generally curse the broadband gods for confining us.


And yes, it would be nice to use Youtube at home. It does something with videos? Like...like...a TV?

You chose to live in an area with limited connectivity and yet there is a obvious tilt to my reasoning and not a obvious bias to yours? If you choose to live in an area without a specific service, why is it the state's problem to provide it to you.


Is it worth destroying rural wifi companies, who will likely need to be paid off?
Is it worth giving the go ahead to UPC/Virgin and Eir that there will be zero investment into competitive services for large swathes of land for at least the next decade, if not perpetuity?
Is it worth incentivising rural one off development, which has valid state cost and social concerns?
Is it worth entrusting such a scheme to a political elite who have in the past used similar efforts to enrich themselves and their donors at the cost of the taxpayer?

Tommy Lagahan wrote: »

Can we keep the "whether or not its worth it to the taxpayer/EU/ sure them farmers out in the sticks don't give a damn" chat out of here, its been going on for months and I come here for news on the NBP not the same oul crap I've been listening to for years.
There was none of this stuff in the Eircom eFibre rollout thread when I was following it whilst living in Letterkenny, had great news on the progress of the cabs getting deployed.

The National Broadband scheme will be nationally subsidised, the more remote the property the more it costs the state. Why should that not be a consideration?

MajesticDonkey

You chose to live in an area with limited connectivity and yet there is a obvious tilt to my reasoning and not a obvious bias to yours? If you choose to live in an area without a specific service, why is it the state's problem to provide it to you.

Again, for many it's not as simple as it being a choice.

Is it worth destroying rural wifi companies, who will likely need to be paid off?

Why is it likely they'll need to be paid off? Certain technologies just don't last forever, and wireless internet is one of said technologies. If WISPs can't keep up with their customers' needs they need to change their line of business.

Is it worth entrusting such a scheme to a political elite who have in the past used similar efforts to enrich themselves and their donors at the cost of the taxpayer?

No it's not, but give me an example of any major recent government project that hasn't been this way.

damienirel

As far as plans go in Ireland which usually is not very far - this one hasn't been much of an exception.
This thread started back in 24-11-2014 that is over a year ago - apart from a lot of hot air about broadband and rural Ireland - I'm not aware of any execution of the actual plan? How much has been squandered on consultancy fees and websites and paying people to tweet about the plan?
Is it not time to get the finger out?

oscarBravo

damienirel wrote: »

As far as plans go in Ireland which usually is not very far - this one hasn't been much of an exception.
This thread started back in 24-11-2014 that is over a year ago - apart from a lot of hot air about broadband and rural Ireland - I'm not aware of any execution of the actual plan? How much has been squandered on consultancy fees and websites and paying people to tweet about the plan?
Is it not time to get the finger out?

I guess it's like building a house: it gets done so much more quickly when you don't squander all your money and waste all your time on planning the project. What would a builder want plans (or planning permission) for?

What's with the impatience? It's a five-year project involving very large sums of money and a delicate balance between state aid and conflicting commercial interests. Where does the belief come from that the minister can snap his fingers and make a vast project like this suddenly swing into implementation mode without planning and consultation?

MajesticDonkey

oscarBravo wrote: »

I guess it's like building a house: it gets done so much more quickly when you don't squander all your money and waste all your time on planning the project. What would a builder want plans (or planning permission) for?

What's with the impatience? It's a five-year project involving very large sums of money and a delicate balance between state aid and conflicting commercial interests. Where does the belief come from that the minister can snap his fingers and make a vast project like this suddenly swing into implementation mode without planning and consultation?

As well as all the above, look at what has happened with previous plans of this size...the previous NBP for example - a complete shambles. Let's be patient and do it right this time, and, dare I say it, that's actually what seems to be happening.

damienirel

MajesticDonkey wrote: »

As well as all the above, look at what has happened with previous plans of this size...the previous NBP for example - a complete shambles. Let's be patient and do it right this time, and, dare I say it, that's actually what seems to be happening.

Reminds me of what a carpenter once said to me...
"I may not be good but I'm slow"
- funny how we all equate time to quality.
Maybe I'm just too cynical for these threads.

pegasus1

damienirel wrote: »

Maybe I'm just too cynical for these threads.

You know where the door is....:D

on topic saw fibre being pulled through ducts in Kilkenny city by kn...fttc presumably

rob808

pegasus1 wrote: »

You know where the door is....:D

on topic saw fibre being pulled through ducts in Kilkenny city by kn...fttc presumably

I think Kilkenny city part of Eir FTTH rollout Notting to do with NBP but it still nice kinda wish I live there now .

damienirel

pegasus1 wrote: »

You know where the door is....:D

on topic saw fibre being pulled through ducts in Kilkenny city by kn...fttc presumably

Ah it's hard to be cynical when they've just pulled a fibre through a duct in Kilkenny. Might stick around for some more major breaking news

KOR101

Not sure whether this can be read literally.....€75m for 40,000 rural properties (1,875 each)?

Fibre broadband provider Gigaclear has secured a €25m loan to help almost treble the size of a network that will reach rural parts of Britain with some of the fastest internet speeds available.

The debt facility from the European Investment Bank is the largest one of its kind awarded to a British company, and will be used to support the rollout of ultrafast fibre broadband to at least 40,000 properties across rural Britain this year.

About a third of the funding for the infrastructure is being provided by the EIB, alongside additional investment from Gigaclear. The broadband provider has raised money from a number of high-profile investors including Neil Woodford and Prudential Infracapital.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/6fa605d8-b9f2-11e5-b151-8e15c9a029fb.html

rob808

http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2016/01/rural-fttp-broadband-isp-gigaclear-gets-25m-euros-loan-to-expand-network.html there the link for the full read KOR101

rob808

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/2016/01/27/eir-ceo-interview-1gbps-broadband-fibre it has really got notting to do with NBP but just about 300k homes getting FTTH.I hoping to hear something about NBP some time soon.

mobil 222

Yes I think there is good new on the horizan for people in exchange areas that have been unlucky in been too far away from a Fibre cabinet.
Bigger townS who have had FTTH and FTTC will be joined by their country cousins in the near future.
There will be a huge drive to achieve this in the next couple of months

mobil 222

Yes I think there is good new on the horizan for people in exchange areas that have been unlucky in been too far away from a Fibre cabinet.
Bigger townS who have had FTTH and FTTC will be joined by their country cousins in the near future.
There will be a huge drive to achieve this in the next couple of months

KOR101

Long interview by Adrian Weckler of Tony Hanway (Virgin Media/UPC)

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/news/the-cable-broadband-boss-whos-betting-big-on-ireland-incs-economic-recovery-34402446.html

"I would say, ultimately, that we won't be bidding," says Hanway. "We've stayed connected to the process and have been an interested observer. But as it moves into the crunch time now I think it's something that we'll pass on.

"It doesn't make sense for us with our current footprint, commercially. And we'd have some concerns about the actual number of households that are really reachable. It wouldn't really lend itself to a cable network, essentially."

The National Broadband Plan will, however, still have "a number of twists in the road to come".

Hanway thinks the Government was "correct" not to accept Eir's rural fibre plan projections, which would have forced it to cut the national tendering area from 700,000 premises to 400,000 premises. "If someone is going to make commitments like that, they should furnish payments up front and they should be binding," he says of Eir's plans. "Especially in a company that's likely to change management in the near term."

AND

The competition, he claims, will be hampered by the weight of its own building program.

"Fibre rollout in Ireland is glacially slow," he says. "You've got Siro which is doing very limited stuff outside the normal metropolitan footprint. And then you've got Eir whose own website claims they've passed just 20,000 homes. So that leaves what? 1.99 million to go? I mean, it's going to be very slow. Plus, it's prohibitively expensive. I don't think it's going to become mass market any time soon at all." As market theories go, this is more than a little counter-intuitive. Fibre is widely seen as the holy grail in broadband connectivity. Once its laid, little is reckoned to get in its way. Hanway's argument, however, is wrapped up in the economics of the flagship gigabit services such fibre is promising.

"It's extremely hard to see how they [Eir, Siro] would make a return on it," he says.

ED E

We always knew VM(UPC) would never touch it.

He's correct about the other players, and somewhat about FTTH. We've done great with FTTC, but we're years behind the likes of Sweden.

damienirel

"Fibre rollout in Ireland is glacially slow" - he got that right too!
Although the article is so virgin biased it's borderline ridiculous.
I hate being pro Eir but if they do deliver on the FTTH at 1gb to all the homes they claim they will it will obliterate Virgin.
Siro however don't seem to be at the races.

pegasus1

ED E wrote: »

We always knew VM(UPC) would never touch it.

He's correct about the other players, and somewhat about FTTH. We've done great with FTTC, but we're years behind the likes of Sweden.

Re Sweden, My sister who lives over there, If they wanted fibre they would have to pay a lot of money to get it installed, village/town in south Sweden

ED E

pegasus1 wrote: »

Re Sweden, My sister who lives over there, If they wanted fibre they would have to pay a lot of money to get it installed, village/town in south Sweden

Yeah, itll cost maybe €1-3k, but her homes value jumps by at least 5% by doing so.

This is the way it should be done.

damienirel

I'd happily pay 2-3k to get 1gb fibre installed. It's the monthly charges that we need to keep an eye on here in Ireland. In fairness Sweden do a lot of things properly not surprised at all. What I expect in Ireland is "ahh sure your out in the shticks won't de ould wireless dongle yoke do ya?"

rodge123

damienirel wrote: »

I'd happily pay 2-3k to get 1gb fibre installed. It's the monthly charges that we need to keep an eye on here in Ireland. In fairness Sweden do a lot of things properly not surprised at all. What I expect in Ireland is "ahh sure your out in the shticks won't de ould wireless dongle yoke do ya?"

We're building a new house and have to pay 2,500 ESB connection.

If I was offered guaranteed 1gb Fibre for same price I'd take it.
Although I won't complain if the NBP want to provide it for a much smaller fee!

pegasus1

rodge123 wrote: »

If I was offered guaranteed 1gb Fibre for same price I'd take it.
Although I won't complain if the NBP want to provide it for a much smaller fee!

Don't be giving them ideas....yet!!!

rob808

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/enet-showcases-national-broadband-plan-capabilities-with-1gbps-network-in-kerry-34406696.html



https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/2016/01/29/broadband-plan-eir-siro-enet

ED E

Haha, at least they're trying for once.

God that picture in the indo does him no favours.

Gonzo

ED E wrote: »

We always knew VM(UPC) would never touch it.

He's correct about the other players, and somewhat about FTTH. We've done great with FTTC, but we're years behind the likes of Sweden.

the speed of the FTTH rollout is really frustratingly slow alright. It's nice to know that Eir plan to roll out fibre to many rural locations including mine but this was announced last August and lets face it none of that is starting till sometime 2017 which could be October 2017 for all we know. Most of us wont start to see real progress with the blue line scheme till 2018 or even 2019 at the earliest and were only at the first month of 2016. All this stuff really needs to start now.

ED E

Gonzo wrote: »

the speed of the FTTH rollout is really frustratingly slow alright. It's nice to know that Eir plan to roll out fibre to many rural locations including mine but this was announced last August and lets face it none of that is starting till sometime 2017 which could be October 2017 for all we know. Most of us wont start to see real progress with the blue line scheme till 2018 or even 2019 at the earliest and were only at the first month of 2016. All this stuff really needs to start now.

The fixed line market is kind of like the automotive market, it moves REALLY slowly.

The above is fast for telcos, it may not seem like it to somebody waiting for it, but it is.

Tommy Lagahan

damienirel wrote: »

I'd happily pay 2-3k to get 1gb fibre installed. It's the monthly charges that we need to keep an eye on here in Ireland. In fairness Sweden do a lot of things properly not surprised at all. What I expect in Ireland is "ahh sure your out in the shticks won't de ould wireless dongle yoke do ya?"

I'd pay up to 5K easily for 100mbit up/down tbh. I realize I'm 11K from an exchange and stuff aint free but I'd nearly go without going out and eat only nutrient paste for a year to stop having to deal with 2 different 3G ISP and a fixed wireless WISP that says 1mbit is good enough.

KOR101

Gonzo wrote: »

the speed of the FTTH rollout is really frustratingly slow alright. It's nice to know that Eir plan to roll out fibre to many rural locations including mine but this was announced last August and lets face it none of that is starting till sometime 2017 which could be October 2017 for all we know. Most of us wont start to see real progress with the blue line scheme till 2018 or even 2019 at the earliest and were only at the first month of 2016. All this stuff really needs to start now.

Actually, EIR ceo said this week that work had already started.

“We are actually starting this rollout now and, in the short term, we are creating a reverse digital divide where rural communities will have superior services through fibre-to-the-home.”

[url]Https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/2016/01/27/eir-ceo-interview-1gbps-broadband-fibre[/url]

mass_debater

Gonzo wrote: »

the speed of the FTTH rollout is really frustratingly slow alright. It's nice to know that Eir plan to roll out fibre to many rural locations including mine but this was announced last August and lets face it none of that is starting till sometime 2017 which could be October 2017 for all we know. Most of us wont start to see real progress with the blue line scheme till 2018 or even 2019 at the earliest and were only at the first month of 2016. All this stuff really needs to start now.

The few storms have slowed things as Eir have had to focus on faults since before Christmas

damienirel

mass_debater wrote: »

The few storms have slowed things as Eir have had to focus on faults since before Christmas

Those pesky storms!!! :mad:

Tommy Lagahan

KOR101 wrote: »

Actually, EIR ceo said this week that work had already started.

Any word on where's getting it first?

fergus1001

Getting eir broadband installed tomorrow had to order a second line from them so they would get up off there arses, appearantly everyone around has efiber 80 mb and I'm out in the sticks !!

ED E

fergus1001 wrote: »

Getting eir broadband installed tomorrow had to order a second line from them so they would get up off there arses, appearantly everyone around has efiber 80 mb and I'm out in the sticks !!

Absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

KOR101

Tommy Lagahan wrote: »

Any word on where's getting it first?

No, but follow this thread.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057499489

Tommy Lagahan

KOR101 wrote: »

No, but follow this thread.....

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057499489

Thanks, didn't see that thread.

fergus1001

ED E wrote:

Absolutely nothing to do with this thread.

It sort of is I have been battling to get broadband out to my house for years I live right out in the "intervention zone" so a small success !

rob808

http://irelandoffline.org/2016/01/national-broadband-plan-coverage-an-election-special/

pegasus1

rob808 wrote: »

http://irelandoffline.org/2016/01/national-broadband-plan-coverage-an-election-special/

It took them how long to come up with this....more than a month...
IrelandOffLine...get some optimism....

fergus1001

I knew we would have to smell the roses sooner or later !


Got my phoneline today, now praying for the next two days that it passes for broadband !

KOR101

NBP looking dated already.......................

https://vulcanpost.com/525591/singtel-will-be-offering-10gbps-residential-fibre-services/

In a recently published press release, Singtel has just shared that they will be offering “a whopping” 10Gbps fibre broadband service to residential customers in Singapore starting this month.

The increased internet speed allows you to stream multiple 4K ultra HD videos and operate bandwidth intensive applications like 3D TV. On top of that, this prepares you for 8K UHD content streaming, which is the current highest ultra high definition television (UHDTV) .

MajesticDonkey

KOR101 wrote: »

The increased internet speed allows you to stream multiple 4K ultra HD videos and operate bandwidth intensive applications like 3D TV. On top of that, this prepares you for 8K UHD content streaming, which is the current highest ultra high definition television (UHDTV) .

You could do all of the above with less than 1 Gbps. 10 Gbps, at this point in time, is completely pointless for 99.99% of consumers. Things will be different in 5-10 years' time when 8K is what 4K is now.

ED E

KOR101 wrote: »

NBP looking dated already.......................

https://vulcanpost.com/525591/singtel-will-be-offering-10gbps-residential-fibre-services/

In a recently published press release, Singtel has just shared that they will be offering “a whopping” 10Gbps fibre broadband service to residential customers in Singapore starting this month.

The increased internet speed allows you to stream multiple 4K ultra HD videos and operate bandwidth intensive applications like 3D TV. On top of that, this prepares you for 8K UHD content streaming, which is the current highest ultra high definition television (UHDTV) .

Ahh would you cop on KOR, you know better.

Population density in singapore is 100x what it is in Ireland. Thats not hyperbole, its more than 100x infact.

Like comparing Norway with bloody Sudan for average industrial wage. Apples and elephants nevermind oranges.

Stinicker

KOR101 wrote: »

NBP looking dated already.......................

https://vulcanpost.com/525591/singtel-will-be-offering-10gbps-residential-fibre-services/

In a recently published press release, Singtel has just shared that they will be offering “a whopping” 10Gbps fibre broadband service to residential customers in Singapore starting this month.

The increased internet speed allows you to stream multiple 4K ultra HD videos and operate bandwidth intensive applications like 3D TV. On top of that, this prepares you for 8K UHD content streaming, which is the current highest ultra high definition television (UHDTV) .

The thing is that if the fibre is laid it will be a simple enough to roll-out 10 or even 100Gbps, the most important aspect is that Fibre be used, as all that is needed is to upgrade the Fibre modem and maybe some distribution equipment. If you build fibre you are building future proof. If you build it, they will come.

KOR101

ED E wrote: »

Ahh would you cop on KOR, you know better.

Population density in singapore is 100x what it is in Ireland. Thats not hyperbole, its more than 100x infact.

Like comparing Norway with bloody Sudan for average industrial wage. Apples and elephants nevermind oranges.

It was said tongue in cheek,.......

damienirel

Stinicker wrote: »

The thing is that if the fibre is laid it will be a simple enough to roll-out 10 or even 100Gbps, the most important aspect is that Fibre be used, as all that is needed is to upgrade the Fibre modem and maybe some distribution equipment. If you build fibre you are building future proof. If you build it, they will come.

Excellent point! Once the 1gb is in the 10gb is only small upgrades they're still using the exact same fibre lines it's the cabinet equipment that changes. And the only reason that we're putting in 1gb now is because it's cheaper. If the 10gb was as cheap that would be going in. It's all down to cost. But it's totally a sign of the way it will be going in case the government/NBP or Eir/Siro start to get cold feet - there is no doubting it's the future for communications everywhere.
Long time overdue for Eir to remove the copper lines and replace them with fibre.

oscarBravo

damienirel wrote: »

Long time overdue for Eir to remove the copper lines and replace them with fibre.

They would love nothing more, but so far ComReg won't let them. There's a consultation ongoing on whether they should be allowed to do so.

bk

damienirel wrote: »

Excellent point! Once the 1gb is in the 10gb is only small upgrades they're still using the exact same fibre lines it's the cabinet equipment that changes.

Actually you wouldn't even need to touch the cabinets, they aren't really used for FTTH * In order to support 10Gb and higher in future, you just have to replace the lasers in the OLT in the exchange and the ONT in the home. A relatively cheap and straight forward upgrade compared to installing FTTH in the first place or even FTTC.

This is why when building this FTTH network, you are building the telecommunications network that will be used to the next 50 to 100 years and why it is so important.

* Obviously a few fiber pairs are terminated in the cabs to support FTTC, but the other FTTH pairs simply pass under the cab and their is no active gear in the FTTC cabs for the FTTH fibers. In fact eventually when 100% of homes are on FTTH, they can probably remove the FTTC cabs.

Gonzo

im not sure why Eir still plan to bring FTTC to other small villages during 2016 holding up the rural FTTH lines till sometime 2017, why don't Eir just start now on FTTH and get the ball rolling. FTTC will be completely outdated in 5 years.

ED E

Gonzo wrote: »

im not sure why Eir still plan to bring FTTC to other small villages during 2016 holding up the rural FTTH lines till sometime 2017, why don't Eir just start now on FTTH and get the ball rolling. FTTC will be completely outdated in 5 years.

Its much cheaper in clustered dwellings. In addition not all their staff have the skills to work with fiber, they can leave copper linesmen working on VDSL while the larger FTTH specific build crews go out and start drilling walls and blowing fiber.

MajesticDonkey

Gonzo wrote: »

im not sure why Eir still plan to bring FTTC to other small villages during 2016 holding up the rural FTTH lines till sometime 2017, why don't Eir just start now on FTTH and get the ball rolling.

Does the rolling out of more cabinets around the country not make rolling FTTH out much easier?