NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

KOR101

It's official now.......

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0426/784390-broadband/

Gonzo

KOR101 wrote: »

It's official now.......

http://m.rte.ie/news/2016/0426/784390-broadband/

its an absolute disgrace, the plan was announced in 2012 and barely any work apart from documents and research till 2017 at the earliest if were lucky. There will still be homes/premises waiting to be upgraded during 2025 and beyond.

jbkenn

Gonzo wrote: »

its an absolute disgrace, the plan was announced in 2012 and barely any work apart from documents and research till 2017 at the earliest if were lucky. There will still be homes/premises waiting to be upgraded during 2025 and beyond.

Did anyone really expect anything different from The Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, they have been making a pigs ear of this since 2005, why change the habits of a lifetime, they will all still get a pay cheque at the end of the month, which or whether.

ED E

Always looked a little too good.

Community BB schemes will roll out much faster ladies.

Johnboy1951

This gives eir even more time to fill in their 'blue-lines' so I would not be surprised to hear they are smiling about this today.

irishgrover

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

This gives eir even more time to fill in their 'blue-lines' so I would not be surprised to hear they are smiling about this today.

yeah, it will be interesting to see how many of the 100,000 rural FTTH customers are actually connected 44 weeks from now. I'll hazard a guess at 1400....

Gonzo

irishgrover wrote: »

yeah, it will be interesting to see how many of the 100,000 rural FTTH customers are actually connected 44 weeks from now. I'll hazard a guess at 1400....

they would want to start widespread work in a lot of areas very soon if they are to get even close to finishing 100,000 homes by next March. I was very excited when I saw work starting here a few weeks ago but it seems to have stalled now over 2 weeks. I still have much more faith in it compared to the NBP tho. It could be 2020 before the first customer is connected on the NBP the way things are looking.

frozenfrozen

Is there anything like B4RN happening somewhere in Ireland?

It would be great if there was a template for starting something like b4rn, especially if that side of it was supported by the government

could have a website where you could simply tag your land as being willing to have fibre run through it. Then when an area has enough coverage of free access, the next step could be community installations or a company bidding on installing for that area.

or is that a completely mad idea

ED E

frozenfrozen wrote: »

or is that a completely mad idea

The schemes that have worked have had somebody local to take up the mantle. Thats why they work, its not somebody in Nova etc with no stake, the quality of the network benefits the admin/architect too. If a tower goes down at 10pm he/she lives 20 mins away.

The best Irish example that I know of is BigLar with his FWALA project.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056423539

garroff

The words pissup and brewery come to mind

rob808

Gonzo wrote: »

they would want to start widespread work in a lot of areas very soon if they are to get even close to finishing 100,000 homes by next March. I was very excited when I saw work starting here a few weeks ago but it seems to have stalled now over 2 weeks. I still have much more faith in it compared to the NBP tho. It could be 2020 before the first customer is connected on the NBP the way things are looking.

There FTTC rollout finish end of June so I would say they start in July with work on the 100,000 homes.

Persiancowboy

I'm going to take a more positive view of this announcement than other posters.

I think what we are finally seeing/hearing is the civil servants working on the Plan who, freed from the usual political shackles given the current political situation, are giving an honest appraisal of the timelines as against what we normally get through political spin.

Anyone remember Pat Rabbitte back in 2012 talking about delivery "in the lifetime of the Government" ?

The deadlines repeatedly cited by ministers were totally unbelievable and unrealistic.....what we have now, for the first time, is an honest appraisal of where the project is actually at.

KOR101

Persiancowboy wrote: »

I'm going to take a more positive view of this announcement than other posters.

I think what we are finally seeing/hearing is the civil servants working on the Plan who, freed from the usual political shackles given the current political situation, are giving an honest appraisal of the timelines as against what we normally get through political spin.

Anyone remember Pat Rabbitte back in 2012 talking about delivery "in the lifetime of the Government" ?

The deadlines repeatedly cited by ministers were totally unbelievable and unrealistic.....what we have now, for the first time, is an honest appraisal of where the project is actually at.

It was only ever going to get real once companies were faced with signing a contract with specified schedules and penalties. However, it is also perfectly fair to criticise anyone for failing to meet promises, and that includes the Department. The depressing thing is that this is going to be just one of many deadline extensions.

legocrazy505

rob808 wrote: »

Gonzo wrote: »

they would want to start widespread work in a lot of areas very soon if they are to get even close to finishing 100,000 homes by next March. I was very excited when I saw work starting here a few weeks ago but it seems to have stalled now over 2 weeks. I still have much more faith in it compared to the NBP tho. It could be 2020 before the first customer is connected on the NBP the way things are looking.

There FTTC rollout finish end of June so I would say they start in July with work on the 100,000 homes.

How does that make sense though when there's a ton of planned cabinets around me that all say within 1 year. FTTC rollout won't be done in June.

I don't trust Eir enough to do anything when a boot isn't shoved up their backside. The NBP was that boot.

damienirel

Yeah and the joke of rubbish broadband continues - watch this space it's not going to improve anytime soon. I've always thought the bluelines were way too good to be true.

marno21

Sigh.

The original targets were very ambitious - I'd see a half full glass here and be happy that the rollout will be done.

Remember 3 years ago when it was just DSL in towns, now we're 5 years away from having FTTH to the majority of rural premises. That's something to be happy about.

ED E

rob808 wrote: »

There FTTC rollout finish end of June so I would say they start in July with work on the 100,000 homes.

legocrazy505 wrote: »

How does that make sense though when there's a ton of planned cabinets around me that all say within 1 year. FTTC rollout won't be done in June.

I don't trust Eir enough to do anything when a boot isn't shoved up their backside. The NBP was that boot.

FTTC rollout is due to be done in June but that doesn't mean every cab/exchange is done. Remember their threshold for a "Live" area is 40% of lines.

What they need to do then is mostly fill in works, problem cabs, ones where somebody objected. Hopefully some more vectoring. This will still allow the contractors to retask in force to start moving glass.

legocrazy505

marno21 wrote: »

Sigh.

The original targets were very ambitious - I'd see a half full glass here and be happy that the rollout will be done.

Remember 3 years ago when it was just DSL in towns, now we're 5 years away from having FTTH to the majority of rural premises. That's something to be happy about.

How many times has fast broadband been "just around the corner" though? NBP is another wasted chance at pushing the rural economy into the 21st century and once again they've gone and wasted it.

Gonzo

legocrazy505 wrote: »

How many times has fast broadband been "just around the corner" though? NBP is another wasted chance at pushing the rural economy into the 21st century and once again they've gone and wasted it.

dunno if theres truth in this but as the NBP is a government scheme and we currently have had no government for the past 2 months doesn't help the NBP. The NBP is probably bottom of any government's priority.

marno21

legocrazy505 wrote: »

How many times has fast broadband been "just around the corner" though? NBP is another wasted chance at pushing the rural economy into the 21st century and once again they've gone and wasted it.

It's still around the corner.

How often do rollouts of anything in this country get done on time?

damienirel

marno21 wrote: »

It's still around the corner.

How often do rollouts of anything in this country get done on time?

Yeah I'll be rolled out before fibre gets rolled out! :-)

MajesticDonkey

The issue for me with this is, if, back in 2012, the first "proper" NBP was announced (€2b government investment AFAIK) was actually implemented, the whole country would be probably only a year or two away from complete coverage with quality broadband.

KOR101

Adrian Weckler's take.....................

The Government has postponed negotiations with bidders such as Eir and Vodafone, the spokeswoman said, saying it hopes to resume the process later this year.

The setback means that completion of the rollout plan may not happen until 2022 or later - two years after the Government's promised delivery date and 10 years after the scheme was first launched.

The spokesman said negotiations with bidders were postponed because of planning and procedural issues. She said that the lack of a new Government minister in place has had "no effect" on the process.

http://www.independent.ie/business/close-to-a-million-must-now-wait-six-years-for-fast-broadband-34663251.html

pegasus1

KOR101 wrote: »

Adrian Weckler's take.....................

Think Adrian Weckler should leave the indo and join the daily mail...He seems to be all about the doom and gloom re broadband..

damienirel

pegasus1 wrote: »

Think Adrian Weckler should leave the indo and join the daily mail...He seems to be all about the doom and gloom re broadband..

Believe what you want but I'd definitely believe his dates over eirs.
They have played the game well I must say drawing blue lines all over google maps. Imaginative fantasy lines - that will take a lot longer than they claim to become a reality(if they ever do) - just to scare any potential competition - I think any private incumbent monopoly communication network owner would do the same thing. Not sure the government/NBP people could do much to stop this from happening - this is the legacy problem created by Mary O'Rourke and her band - Fianna Fáil. Selling Telecom Eireann was a major mistake as we are now finding out the hard way.

KOR101

Am I being too cynical? Does this free up 275m for this year. Now there's one in the eye for the Irural ndependents.

legocrazy505

KOR101 wrote: »

Am I being too cynical? Does this free up 275m for this year. Now there's one in the eye for the Irural ndependents.

The money will be spent, doesn't matter when so no it doesn't free up anything. If anything it just devalues the contract even further.

funnyname

Rome wasn't built in a day

Persiancowboy

KOR101 wrote: »

Am I being too cynical? Does this free up 275m for this year. Now there's one in the eye for the Irural ndependents.

Add your reply here.
This has nothing to do with money....I doubt there is a single party or elected representative that doesn't support this project. It's about being honest with the public about what's achievable within certain timescales. This is the biggest infrastructural build in the state since rural electrification.....it's going to take a long time not just to build but also to plan. Politicians don't do long-term: they talk (dishonestly) of unrealistic/unachievable deadlines tied to their tenure in office.

Add to this the spoiling tactics of our friends in Heuston Square who are hell-bent on sabotaging the procurement phase of NBP and is it any wonder it's going to take longer than originally announced??

damienirel

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Add your reply here.
This has nothing to do with money....I doubt there is a single party or elected representative that doesn't support this project. It's about being honest with the public about what's achievable within certain timescales. This is the biggest infrastructural build in the state since rural electrification.....it's going to take a long time not just to build but also to plan. Politicians don't do long-term: they talk (dishonestly) of unrealistic/unachievable deadlines tied to their tenure in office.

Add to this the spoiling tactics of our friends in Heuston Square who are hell-bent on sabotaging the procurement phase of NBP and is it any wonder it's going to take longer than originally announced??

I disagree - It's all about money. EU is awarding a 500m grant based on a fair tendering process where private operators see it as not commercially viable to roll out in certain areas. Eir - claim they can rollout to practically everywhere once they weren't being awarded the contract with the EU funding. So yeah it's all about cash. Eir are a private company so why wouldn't it. They have to protect income and profits and shareholders last thing they worry about is bringing fibre to rural areas.

KOR101

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/technology/2016/0428/784841-national-broadband/

oscarBravo

KOR101 wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/business/technology/2016/0428/784841-national-broadband/

...the Department of Communications announcement that it will not award the tender for an extended broadband network.

The what now?

KOR101

oscarBravo wrote: »

The what now?

This is the only statement I can find.

open eir notes the confirmation by the Department of Communications, Energy and Natural Resources (DCENR) that it will not be in a position to commence negotiations with short listed bidders as planned this year or to award the National Broadband Plan contract to the winning bidder or bidders until early 2017. We remain committed to the National Broadband Plan and we are currently working with the Department on the comprehensive procurement process.

The change to the Department’s timelines, does not affect open eir’s Rural Fibre Rollout Plan announced in June 2015 which added 300,000 premises across rural Ireland to our already extensive network. We remain focussed in our efforts to bring high speed broadband to communities across Ireland as quickly as possible.

Today, 1.4 million homes and businesses across Ireland can access high speed broadband. This will extend to 1.6 million this year and to 1.9 million premises as quickly as possible thereafter. We have commenced the rollout of high speed broadband to the additional 300,000 homes and businesses in rural Ireland. We plan to complete fibre rollout to the first 100,000 homes and businesses by the end of this year.

http://fibrerollout.ie/open-eir-reaffirms-commitment-to-rural-broadband-plan/

oscarBravo

Yeah, that's not a statement that they won't award the tender.

rob808

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/what-broadband-300000-rural-homes-will-have-to-wait-until-2019-for-start-of-rural-rollout-34671500.html

KOR101

Fuller take, including a segment on the meeting this morning between rural independents and the Dept.

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/news-at-one/

ItHurtsWhenIP

KOR101 wrote: »

Fuller take, including a segment on the meeting this morning between rural independents and the Dept.

http://www.rte.ie/news/player/news-at-one/

Bloody thing won't play for some reason - maybe cos I got crappy broadband!!! :eek: (or ad blockers more likely)

Johnboy1951

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

Bloody thing won't play for some reason - maybe cos I got crappy broadband!!! :eek: (or ad blockers more likely)

Yep, won't play with ad block in place.

Persiancowboy

damienirel wrote: »

Persiancowboy wrote: »

Add your reply here.
This has nothing to do with money....I doubt there is a single party or elected representative that doesn't support this project. It's about being honest with the public about what's achievable within certain timescales. This is the biggest infrastructural build in the state since rural electrification.....it's going to take a long time not just to build but also to plan. Politicians don't do long-term: they talk (dishonestly) of unrealistic/unachievable deadlines tied to their tenure in office.

Add to this the spoiling tactics of our friends in Heuston Square who are hell-bent on sabotaging the procurement phase of NBP and is it any wonder it's going to take longer than originally announced??

I disagree - It's all about money. EU is awarding a 500m grant based on a fair tendering process where private operators see it as not commercially viable to roll out in certain areas. Eir - claim they can rollout to practically everywhere once they weren't being awarded the contract with the EU funding. So yeah it's all about cash. Eir are a private company so why wouldn't it. They have to protect income and profits and shareholders last thing they worry about is bringing fibre to rural areas.

Add your reply here.
Don't want to prolong this but you are completely wrong here.....there is absolutely no 500m grant from EU. Under Ireland's agreement under ERDF funding out to 2022 some 75m has been earmarked for broadband.....this will be managed by both the BMW and South Eastern Regional Authorities. If you don't believe go and check with them yourself.

Stop trying to attribute this delay to funding....it has nothing to do with this at all. The timelines promised by politicians were never going to be met because they were totally unrealistic.....just look at how slow SIRO's rollout of commercial connectivity is proving....Let's just hope that the project can now stay on track.

KOR101

“We should though be able to award a contract by the middle of 2017 which is around about May or June of next year,” Mr White told RTÉ Radio 1.

The short delay would ensure the plan didn’t run into longer delays due to infringements of State aid rules which prevent the Government from providing broadband in an area where a private operator also plans to do so, he added.

Once the contract is awarded in 2017 the stated three- to five-year implementation timeframe remains unchanged and “crystal clear”, according to the minister.

Eir chief executive Richard Moat yesterday contradicted the minister however, by claiming the exact delay to providing rural broadband remains to be determined.

“It’s a bit unclear. Certainly it seems that the contract won’t be awarded until into 2017 now.

Whether there is then a delay in the period during which the roll-out is to be anticipated I think still remains to be clarified,” Mr Moat said.

Mr White’s suggestion that the successful bidder may be able to implement the plan quicker than the anticipated three-to-five years “suits our agenda”, an Eir spokesperson added.

Mr Moat said the company had no plans at present to expand its own provision of rural broadband to more than 300,000 customers despite the newly announced broadband plan delay.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/eir-rural-broadband-delay-remains-unclear-395918.html

KOR101

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/2016/04/29/eir-ceo-interview-richard-moat-national-broadband-plan-4g-5g

and

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/2016/04/29/eir-broadband-ireland

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/2016/04/29/eir-ceo-interview-richard-moat-national-broadband-plan-4g-5g

and

https://www.siliconrepublic.com/companies/2016/04/29/eir-broadband-ireland

"We know the pitfalls, we redesigned the equipment to make it easier to use and we now have 300,000 homes in our footprint passed with fibre-to-the-home."

I did not think they had 300000 homes passed to date. I would have thought it was a smaller number.

KOR101

Hard to disagree with any of this....

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/rural-broadband-once-a-luxury-soon-an-emergency-34673847.html

Gonzo

KOR101 wrote: »

Hard to disagree with any of this....

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/rural-broadband-once-a-luxury-soon-an-emergency-34673847.html

very good article, sums up the crisis that this is turning into.

ED E

Do we have a staffing count for the comms division of the DECNR?

fergus1001

Segment on marianne finucan on the NBP not up as a podcast yet but would be interesting

Bill Shock

ED E wrote: »

Do we have a staffing count for the comms division of the DECNR?

Apparently the experienced Principal Officer in charge of the project was reshuffled some weeks back and someone entirely new put in charge at a very critical time. This would be the senior permanent civil servant working on the NBP. Strange timing to say the least. There is a full time project manager on secondment from outside and a technical director as well as the usual droves of highly paid external advisors.

KOR101

fergus1001 wrote: »

Segment on marianne finucan on the NBP not up as a podcast yet but would be interesting

Rural Broadband
01 May 2016 13:00
Marian is joined by Adrian Weckler-Technology Editor with The Irish Independent, Peter Casey-Founder & Executive Chairman Claddagh Resources and Sean Butler-Farmer & Business Owner, Tipperary

http://www.rte.ie/cspodcasts/media.mp3?c1=2&c2=16951747&ns_site=test&ns_type=clickin&rte_vs_ct=aud&rte_vs_sc=pod&rte_mt_sec=radio&rte_vs_sn=radio1&rte_mt_pub_dt=2016-05-01&rte_mt_prg_name=test-marianfinucane&title=Rural%20Broadband&c7=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0501%2F20160501_rteradio1-marianfinucane-ruralbroad_c20980098_20980102_232_drm_.mp3&r=http%3A%2F%2Fpodcast.rasset.ie%2Fpodcasts%2Faudio%2F2016%2F0501%2F20160501_rteradio1-marianfinucane-ruralbroad_c20980098_20980102_232_drm_.mp3

ED E

Thanks for the link.

Vodacom? Really Marion.

Describing SIRO as over the power lines is misleading. Otherwise relatively accurate. Interesting how the discussion is turning to the WISPs again. Reminiscent of Tesla vs car dealerships in the US.

plodder

ED E wrote: »

Thanks for the link.

Vodacom? Really Marion.

Describing SIRO as over the power lines is misleading. Otherwise relatively accurate. Interesting how the discussion is turning to the WISPs again. Reminiscent of Tesla vs car dealerships in the US.

Vodafone in africa is Vodacom and she's involved in charity work there. So easy mistake to make. It's funny also I've heard a few people say they are providing the service through the power network as that idea was mooted several years ago.