NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

daraghwal

Does the NBP have any affect on eir's blue lines? Does NBP have anything to do with those lines? I know they are not on the NBP yet but does anyone know are they going to update this with what eir are doing with the blue lines?

tsue921i8wljb3

daraghwal wrote: »

Does the NBP have any affect on eir's blue lines? Does NBP have anything to do with those lines? I know they are not on the NBP yet but does anyone know are they going to update this with what eir are doing with the blue lines?

It is more a case of the blue lines may affect the NBP. As it stands the DCENR has rejected openeir's claim that they will complete the 300000 premises represented by the lines, so the NBP tender remains at 750000 premises.

If openeir do as they claim and complete 100000 premises by March 2017 one would imagine (pardon the pun!) that they would be removed from the NBP.

daraghwal

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

imagine (pardon the pun!)

I hope not!:D

Persiancowboy

BandMember wrote: »

That.........is...........just............ Speechless!! :eek:

Humphries hasn't exactly set the world alight so far and why are they taking the NBP away from the Department that have done all the work on it so far?? Unless they move the section and staff responsible for it to the new Department as well (which is a possibility), brace yourselves for further delays.....

The NBP team will move to the new dept but it is being separated from both the communications policy and regulatory functions/staff in dcenr which is plain crazy. Unworkable in my opinion.

Cuddlesworth

seaniefr wrote: »

From reading the last few posts I can't ever see rural dwellers getting anything better than imagine 4G/LTE. Look at our parasitic politicians squabbling if you want to wonder as a rural dweller if it's ever going to be fixed . I wish they would just give the bloody contract to Eir and be done with it. They seem to be the only ones with boots on the ground......

I think if your rural you come to the conclusion that FTTH will happen, but it will take decades.

Its a nice idea but the level of work involved in actually dropping the infra down is immense and the cost will be prohibitive.

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

It is more a case of the blue lines may affect the NBP. As it stands the DCENR has rejected openeir's claim that they will complete the 300000 premises represented by the lines, so the NBP tender remains at 750000 premises.

If openeir do as they claim and complete 100000 premises by March 2017 one would imagine (pardon the pun!) that they would be removed from the NBP.

I would say if they go ahead with anything after a private company stated they were investing into that region, they will be sued into the ground by Eir and any other operator. You can't use government funds to compete against private industry without large pay off's. And in reality, Eir will have the cable installers booked out for the next 3-5 years. So I doubt a single NBP cable will be laid before Eir completes its roll out.

Johnboy1951

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I would say if they go ahead with anything after a private company stated they were investing into that region, they will be sued into the ground by Eir and any other operator. You can't use government funds to compete against private industry without large pay off's. And in reality, Eir will have the cable installers booked out for the next 3-5 years. So I doubt a single NBP cable will be laid before Eir completes its roll out.

That applies if the commercial operator is actually providing a service in the area, and not just making promises about what it might, or might not, do at some future date.
That is why the gov asked for a written commitment from eir and if it got it then the blue-line areas would have had to be excluded from the NBP.

KOR101

Implementation of the NBP has already begun with EIR's 100,000 homes this year. So, the NBP has begun AHEAD of schedule.

daraghwal

KOR101 wrote: »

Implementation of the NBP has already begun with EIR's 100,000 homes this year. So, the NBP has begun AHEAD of schedule.

That's nothing to do with the government or NBP. It's eir rolling out fibre independently. Vodafone and ESB are doing the same with SIRO albeit on a smaller scale

marno21

daraghwal wrote: »

That's nothing to do with the government or NBP. It's eir rolling out fibre independently. Vodafone and ESB are doing the same with SIRO albeit on a smaller scale

Eir are covering areas that are meant to be covered by the NBP. SIRO are not.

Johnboy1951

marno21 wrote: »

Eir are covering areas that are meant to be covered by the NBP. SIRO are not.

Not 'meant' to be, but proposed to be, provided there is no commercial service in the same area.
If eir do provide a service in those areas then the NBP will not duplicate their efforts.

KOR101

Can't see how Eir has "chopped and changed” its plans, but it has certainly messed up the process for the NBP, which was it's intention.

BT blames rival Eir for broadband delay

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/bt-blames-rivaleirfor-broadband-delay-398548.html

KOR101

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/might-broadband-overlap-with-eir-s-fixed-line-obligations-1.2641515

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/rural-broadband-woes-to-continue-34699452.html

Oh boy, I should stop reading......

Broadband may be delayed further as new department takes over

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/broadband-may-be-delayed-further-as-new-department-takes-over-1.2641498

ED E

She noted that a new Cabinet committee on rural affairs would also oversee the plan.

Here we go...

Gonzo

I think anyone in an NBP area can safely look at some alternative for the next few years. Eir etc are not to blame, its our government, this is an absolute disgrace. After 4 years since the announcement and we are no closer to a solution then we were previous to 2012. Moving the NBP to a different department is just the icing on the cake to delay this project for year's more.

legocrazy505

To be fair to the government, Eir deciding to mess around by having their own "rollout" has caused major issues. Thanks to Brussels they have to carefully tip toe around Eir or just give into them, which Brussels would whine about. We can't get anywhere if private firms decide suddenly to "rollout" even though it's unlikely they'll actually do all 300,000 at this point given there is unfortunately no boot up their backside anymore from the NBP.

The government though could grow a pair and just actually get on with it, it doesn't take that much effort to at least put out the tender officially and begin talks with the candidates. They already consulted with many firms already, there isn't that many of them to negotiate with. Sign off by the end of the year then and if it's an ISP like Siro or Eir they're rollouts have already begun so we could actually get it all wrapped up nicely.

ED E

Blaming this on Eir isnt really fair, the DECNR wasnt ready to go out to tender anyways even if eir had done diddly squat.

KOR101

I hope this is not a case of the NBP being Labour's baby, so now........

flutered

legocrazy505 wrote: »

To be fair to the government, Eir deciding to mess around by having their own "rollout" has caused major issues. Thanks to Brussels they have to carefully tip toe around Eir or just give into them, which Brussels would whine about. We can't get anywhere if private firms decide suddenly to "rollout" even though it's unlikely they'll actually do all 300,000 at this point given there is unfortunately no boot up their backside anymore from the NBP.

The government though could grow a pair and just actually get on with it, it doesn't take that much effort to at least put out the tender officially and begin talks with the candidates. They already consulted with many firms already, there isn't that many of them to negotiate with. Sign off by the end of the year then and if it's an ISP like Siro or Eir they're rollouts have already begun so we could actually get it all wrapped up nicely.

too simple, goverments and quangos dont do simple

legocrazy505

flutered wrote: »

too simple, goverments and quangos dont do simple

I know this idea of taskforces and committee groups made up of clueless people is just a classical Irish way of dealing with problems. I might move back to the UK when I'm finished my education.

They already sat down with Eir, Siro and some other providers. They've already done research on WISPs. It's all there, just get the paper and pen and pick a winner on the basis of the best plan that balances speed of the rollout with a rollout of a long term solution that provides a scalable solution for the next 20-30 years.

We don't need yet more advisory groups that continue the cronyism in Irish politics. You'd think the Healy Raes of the world would be pushing for the NBP to happen, heck why didn't any of those independent TDs who are now in government actually demand a national solution to something like broadband rather than things that serve just their own constituency.

KOR101

Adrian Weckler's latest. The Independent is really getting behind this ever since the announcement of the delay was their front page headline story. It helps.

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/rural-broadband-is-a-basic-utility-not-a-state-intervention-34706247.html

damienirel

think it's sparked a bit of debate at least until it's forgotten about again...

http://www.thejournal.ie/broadband-programme-for-government-2016-2765186-May2016/

damienirel

I wonder if it was fast tracked and the contact awarded to Siro - as it's esb and they're semi state they could invest without looking like a bunch of dummies. I guess i could dream.

pegasus1

damienirel wrote: »

I wonder if it was fast tracked and the contact awarded to Siro - as it's esb and they're semi state they could invest without looking like a bunch of dummies. I guess i could dream.

Siro are not semi-state as it is a partnership with the ESB and Vodafone...

damienirel

pegasus1 wrote: »

Siro are not semi-state as it is a partnership with the ESB and Vodafone...

Yes does partnership mean private enterprise with no state ownership - handy that? Anyways I did say dream. Pretty sure our politicians aren't too worried about a NBP.

tsue921i8wljb3

What impact on the plan will Imagine's LTE rollout have? When it comes to revising the intervention map I suspect Imagine will be pushing to have areas it has covered removed under state aid rules.

Hypothetically this could push back the rollout of FTTH to certain areas well past 2022 if they are deemed uneconomic by Eir or Siro's commercial rollouts.

rob808

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

What impact on the plan will Imagine's LTE rollout have? When it comes to revising the intervention map I suspect Imagine will be pushing to have areas it has covered removed under state aid rules.

Hypothetically this could push back the rollout of FTTH to certain areas well past 2022 if they are deemed uneconomic by Eir or Siro's commercial rollouts.

I wonder that to hate to be stuck with imagine LTE given how expensive it is with it shockingly low 20Gb/day cap.

marno21

It's a handy stop gap until people receive FTTH services.

garroff

Can Imagine givee 30Mb and what speed up?

tsue921i8wljb3

marno21 wrote: »

It's a handy stop gap until people receive FTTH services.

What if the department is forced to remove Imagine areas from the NBP tender. It could leave areas lumbered with the stop gap.

tsue921i8wljb3

garroff wrote: »

Can Imagine givee 30Mb and what speed up?

They are making a point of highlighting the minimum 30Mb speed on the product. They are currently spamming their social medfia outlets with speedtest reports from newly signed up customers. Although a few of the posted tests fall under the supposed 6Mb upload.

https://www.facebook.com/imaginewimax

https://twitter.com/imagineGroup__

KOR101

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

What impact on the plan will Imagine's LTE rollout have? When it comes to revising the intervention map I suspect Imagine will be pushing to have areas it has covered removed under state aid rules.

Hypothetically this could push back the rollout of FTTH to certain areas well past 2022 if they are deemed uneconomic by Eir or Siro's commercial rollouts.

The serious answer is that a process has been put in place for updating the NBP map. If the EU accept that process, then, short of hooking someone up, the house should remain in the NBP.

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

The serious answer is that a process has been put in place for updating the NBP map. If the EU accept that process, then, short of hooking someone up, the house should remain in the NBP.

Can you envisage Imagine challenging that in the courts, delaying the process even further? They are fond of a bit of litigation.

pegasus1

marno21 wrote: »

It's a handy stop gap until people receive FTTH services.

And that whats they said about 3G...and look where that got us...

marno21

pegasus1 wrote: »

And that whats they said about 3G...and look where that got us...

If Imagine limit their subscribers and not let the cell become oversubscribed, as well as their daily cap to stop binge downloading, it will work out reasonably if there is sufficient backhaul, as the technology (TDD-LTE) is more appropriate than the HSDPA that 3 used for the NBS.

Of course, nothing is as good as FTTH, and this has to be the ultimate solution delivered to every home.

rodge123

I notice Imagine offer a HUGE 20Gb of data with the LTE 'Fibre' product!
Very sneaky ploy to ensure they can make the case that they are achieving speeds of 30Mb for current customers....hopefully whoever is evaluating the tenders will see past this.

Imagine.png

rob808

marno21 wrote: »

If Imagine limit their subscribers and not let the cell become oversubscribed, as well as their daily cap to stop binge downloading, it will work out reasonably if there is sufficient backhaul, as the technology (TDD-LTE) is more appropriate than the HSDPA that 3 used for the NBS.

Of course, nothing is as good as FTTH, and this has to be the ultimate solution delivered to every home.

If they made it 50Gb/day cap and price at €45 it be a good product but how it is now seem mainly aim at low bandwidth users,I couldn't see myself using there product with cap they have like what the point in having fast broadband if you have limit what you use daily.

rob808

rodge123 wrote: »

I notice Imagine offer a HUGE 20Gb of data with the LTE 'Fibre' product!
Very sneaky ploy to ensure they can make the case that they are achieving speeds of 30Mb for current customers....hopefully whoever is evaluating the tenders will see past this.

Imagine.png

I have to laugh at that Huge 20Gb of data what are they smoking .

Johnboy1951

rob808 wrote: »

I have to laugh at that Huge 20Gb of data what are they smoking .

20GB/day or 600GB/month does not seem all that minuscule to those who would sign up to that service (because there is no better service available).

Heck, I would jump at such a service today!

rodge123

rob808 wrote: »

I have to laugh at that Huge 20Gb of data what are they smoking .

My Bad!
It's actually 20Gb a day...not too shabby.

BandMember

rodge123 wrote: »

My Bad!
It's actually 20Gb a day...not too shabby.

Try doing a bit of HD streaming and see how long 20GB will last you!

rodge123

rodge123 wrote: »

My Bad!
It's actually 20Gb a day...not too shabby.

Actually it is crap...That's only 75GB a month

That would catch a lot of non technical people out. Gb vs GB.
The sneaky pack of weasels!
They really should have 2.5GB per day on their site.

BandMember

rodge123 wrote: »

Actually it is crap...That's only 75GB a month

Lesson for the day: Always read the small print with any sort of satellite and/or mobile provider!

rob808

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

20GB/day or 600GB/month does not seem all that minuscule to those who would sign up to that service (because there is no better service available).

Heck, I would jump at such a service today!

They should just do the 600Gb/month and drop the 20Gb/day cap but guess they cant because it probably crash there network and speeds would go down hill.

rodge123

BandMember wrote: »

Lesson for the day: Always read the small print with any sort of satellite and/or mobile provider!

"While the minimum speed that Imagine will connect you at is 30MB but can easily be 70Mb, depending on your location."

:D:D:D

So the mininium is 240Mb (30MB) but you may be able to get up to 70Mb!

:D:D

AlmightyCushion

I'm hoping for anyone on it that the 20Gb (bit) is a typo and it's actually 20GB (byte).

KOR101

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/inter-departmental-confusion-over-handling-of-national-broadband-plan-399343.html

pegasus1

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

I'm hoping for anyone on it that the 20Gb (bit) is a typo and it's actually 20GB (byte).

I wouldn't count on it...very sneaky of them....suck you in then. . .

Johnboy1951

rodge123 wrote: »

Actually it is crap...That's only 75GB a month

That would catch a lot of non technical people out. Gb vs GB.
The sneaky pack of weasels!
They really should have 2.5GB per day on their site.

The standards used, regardless of typos, is that speed is given in bits
xxGb/s
while quantity is given in Bytes
xxGB

It is obvious from this earlier attachment that some typos have crept in
https://us.v-cdn.net/6034073/uploads/attachments/591463/385812.png

.... unless you believe that their 30MB on that page is really meant to be 240Mb/s

pegasus1

KOR101 wrote: »

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/inter-departmental-confusion-over-handling-of-national-broadband-plan-399343.html

Is it going to be a case of well, pass the buck..it's them that's causing the delay/problem/confusion/denial/not ready yet/......and then the other lot say the same thing about the other lot....

chris_ie

The Imagine download cap is 20GB (bytes). Asked them when I spoke with them. Just a typo on the site it seems.

20GB is great for many of us users who only have access to poor FWA services. The fact that downloads between 12AM and 7AM dont count towards the cap also is good. Can schedule any large downloads for during the night, as I already do. If you stream quite a bit and have multiple users in the house then yeah, its a bit low, but again for many people its a lot better than what they have.

As others have said, as long as its a stop gap and doesnt end up being a case of "well, your covered by at least 30Mb broadband, we'll take you out of the NBP". I'm also on the magic blue lines from Eir, if that ever gets done.