NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

westyIrl

BandMember wrote: »

I honestly believe that they have learned their lesson from the fiasco that was the NBS and we'll be getting FTTH. All the talk has been about future proofing and fibre. Makes sense or else we'll be back here again in a couple of years time....

Something I will never get an answer to, but I often wonder if anyone from the Department NBP team follow this thread. I really hope they do. I've just finished going through the whole 200 pages and with some seriously knowledgeable people making countless valid points; I really hope it is read by them.

Jim

KOR101

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/telcos-threaten-to-boycott-eir-network-in-row-over-pricing-1.3224250

Johnboy1951

KOR101 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/telcos-threaten-to-boycott-eir-network-in-row-over-pricing-1.3224250

Seems absolutely ridiculous to threaten a boycott.
Complain about the charge, yes, but a boycott?
Eir would be delighted to have their fibre all to themselves.

I have no idea what this was supposed to mean (how is it relevant to fibre?) ..... seems the writer just threw in some quote without explanation ....

“The cost of connections charges to deliver electricity or gas services in rural environments is significantly higher than the connection charge for the delivery of fibre to the home,” a spokesman said.

jd

Basically he is saying that ESB Networks and Bord Gais charge more than 250 euro to connect customers in rural areas.

KOR101

Boycotting something you don't use.....:rolleyes:

ED E

The cost is there. It will be paid in a fee or a tariff but it will be paid.

SkepticQuark

"Alto firms are considering a boycott of the 300,000 homes recently carved out of the National Broadband Plan (NBP) and placed back into Eir’s commercial rollout." Makes no odds to the real NBP customers then really right now given those 300k homes aren't in that rollout regardless of what Naughten likes to tell radio hosts to make him look good.

The comparison to Siro makes no sense though given they aren't rolling out FTTH to actual rural houses it should be common sense that it would cost less to do what Siro does in a town compared to what Open Eir have been doing along country roads.

tsue921i8wljb3

Interesting to note the difference between the two main bidders in relation to this week's National Ploughing Championship. For the past two years SIRO had a presence there and were tweeting about it. This week they haven't mentioned it and although I haven't visited they don't seem to be in attendance.

Openeir meanwhile are in full PR mode, sponsoring radio slots and welcoming Denis Naughten to their stand. Is this another indication that SIRO are giving up on their NBP bid I wonder?

KOR101

You might think that if they were going to withdraw they would have done it before now given that detailed solutions are due in not much more than a week's time. It's a disaster if they don't bid at all.

The Cush

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

Interesting to note the difference between the two main bidders in relation to this week's National Ploughing Championship. For the past two years SIRO had a presence there and were tweeting about it. This week they haven't mentioned it and although I haven't visited they don't seem to be in attendance.

Had a quick look at the map and SIRO doesn't have a stand at the show unless there was something in the ESB stand, didn't visit there. Weren't they a little upset last year at the IFA's support for eir's FTTH rollout.

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

You might think that if they were going to withdraw they would have done it before now given that detailed solutions are due in not much more than a week's time. It's a disaster if they don't bid at all.

Perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

The Cush wrote: »

Had a quick look at the map and SIRO doesn't have a stand at the show unless there was something in the ESB stand, didn't visit there. Weren't they a little upset last year at the IFA's support for eir's FTTH rollout.

Yes. I imagine that stung a little seeing as they provided connectivity in 2015 I believe.

KOR101

http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/news/enet-owner-on-the-road-to-nowhere-as-fibre-rollout-race-in-regions-picks-up-speed-36153250.html

oscarBravo

KOR101 wrote: »

http://m.independent.ie/business/technology/news/enet-owner-on-the-road-to-nowhere-as-fibre-rollout-race-in-regions-picks-up-speed-36153250.html

"We've also demonstrated that we're the only wholly open access wholesale network."

I'd love to know how he's arrived at that conclusion.

rob808

oscarBravo wrote: »

I'd love to know how he's arrived at that conclusion.

I think he means there only wholesale network that isnt ISP and doesn't sell broadband just open access network.

oscarBravo

rob808 wrote: »

I think he means there only wholesale network that isnt ISP and doesn't sell broadband just open access network.

Neither SIRO nor open eir is a retail ISP. Not that it matters: both run open access wholesale networks.

SkepticQuark

I lost interest in the article once I got to "Roscommon Town is in the middle of nowhere." It's a town for **** sake and the "journalist" is acting like serving towns now is a big deal that surely means the RURAL divide is ending when it comes to broadband. We should no longer be acting like towns getting decent broadband is such a big achievement, if at this stage they don't have at least FTTC then it's beyond a joke and instead of acting like they are so generous and such a saviour we should be asking them why did it take so long to serve towns.

I'll be the first to admit I give Eir a lot of **** but I actually see their contracted out workers on the roads now in the middle of the countryside putting up fibre on the poles, that's worth talking about not serving towns this late in the game.

tsue921i8wljb3

I caught Carolan Lennon's interview last week with Pat Kenny on Newstalk playback this morning. Disturbing listening for those in remote areas who are depending on the NBP. Carolan says that some people are in a "fibre desert" with no core fibre infrastructure near them and unlikely to ever be.

You may think she is only referring to a few homes on the sides of mountains but no, according to Carolan the "final 10%" of the 540,000 premises, that is 54,000 homes, will have to be serviced with another solution be that wireless or satellite. Yes she actually mentioned satellite.

It will be interesting to see Openeir's detailed solution to the NBP but we now have within the same week Minister Naughten and the MD of Openeir both referencing satellite.

Listen here (move the red time scroller about half way across the page):

http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5595/39240/25th_September_2017_-_Best_of_Newstalk_Part_6/

rob808

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I caught Carolan Lennon's interview last week with Pat Kenny on Newstalk playback this morning. Disturbing listening for those in remote areas who are depending on the NBP. Carolan says that some people are in a "fibre desert" with no core fibre infrastructure near them and unlikely to ever be.

You may think she is only referring to a few homes on the sides of mountains but no, according to Carolan the "final 10%" of the 540,000 premises, that is 54,000 homes, will have to be serviced with another solution be that wireless or satellite. Yes she actually mentioned satellite.

It will be interesting to see Openeir's detailed solution to the NBP but we now have within the same week Minister Naughten and the MD of Openeir both referencing satellite.

Listen here (move the red time scroller about half way across the page):

http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5595/39240/25th_September_2017_-_Best_of_Newstalk_Part_6/

well we all kinda thought this hopefully wireless rather than satellite for last 10% I say siro and Enet are thinking the same.

Johnboy1951

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

I caught Carolan Lennon's interview last week with Pat Kenny on Newstalk playback this morning. Disturbing listening for those in remote areas who are depending on the NBP. Carolan says that some people are in a "fibre desert" with no core fibre infrastructure near them and unlikely to ever be.

You may think she is only referring to a few homes on the sides of mountains but no, according to Carolan the "final 10%" of the 540,000 premises, that is 54,000 homes, will have to be serviced with another solution be that wireless or satellite. Yes she actually mentioned satellite.

It will be interesting to see Openeir's detailed solution to the NBP but we now have within the same week Minister Naughten and the MD of Openeir both referencing satellite.

Listen here (move the red time scroller about half way across the page):

http://www.newstalk.com/listen_back/5595/39240/25th_September_2017_-_Best_of_Newstalk_Part_6/

' a gig .... very difficult to use it .... your laptop probably won't support it ...'

What kind of rubbish is she spouting?
Does she realise there are usually more than one person in a household?
What about 5 people all trying to download or stream TV/Video?

.... and Kenny was not much good either ..... apparently knows little about any of this ....

Just another opportunity to advertise it seems.

oscarBravo

rob808 wrote: »

well we all kinda thought this hopefully wireless rather than satellite for last 10% I say siro and Enet are thinking the same.

Not going to claim I know what they have planned, but although enet have extensive wireless infrastructure already, SIRO have none whatsoever that I'm aware of.

rob808

oscarBravo wrote: »

Not going to claim I know what they have planned, but although enet have extensive wireless infrastructure already, SIRO have none whatsoever that I'm aware of.

They'll probably use Vodafone wireless network and Enet did mention they would use a mixture of fibre and wireless.

oscarBravo

rob808 wrote: »

They'll probably use Vodafone wireless network...

There's nothing whatsoever in their product set to date that suggests they're even thinking along those terms. SIRO is a fibre company. Providing services on someone else's wireless network (even if "someone else" is a shareholder) just isn't something they're currently set up to do.

rob808

oscarBravo wrote: »

There's nothing whatsoever in their product set to date that suggests they're even thinking along those terms. SIRO is a fibre company. Providing services on someone else's wireless network (even if "someone else" is a shareholder) just isn't something they're currently set up to do.

This is true siro fibre company only but can't see them doing a full FTTH solution.It will come down to money hopefully we know something tomorrow or end of this week.

oscarBravo

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/major-blow-to-national-broadband-plan-as-esb-and-vodafone-pull-out-36170575.html

Crap.

tsue921i8wljb3

oscarBravo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/major-blow-to-national-broadband-plan-as-esb-and-vodafone-pull-out-36170575.html

Crap.

Called it!

The Cush

oscarBravo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/major-blow-to-national-broadband-plan-as-esb-and-vodafone-pull-out-36170575.html

Crap.

That's unfortunate, less competition, but looking at the slow pace of their own urban rollout how long would it have taken them to rollout into rural areas if they won the contract?

rob808

I thought this would happen there no profit in it for siro shame really but looking at there urban rollout it not that surprising.They can focus there time on there urban rollout.

tsue921i8wljb3

Live images from Heuston South Quarter:

rob808

I say Eir & Enet are happy especially Enet since they were the underdogs of the NBP.

turbbo

Well if you didn't predict that you weren't paying attention sheesh!

turbbo

rob808 wrote: »

I say Eir & Enet are happy especially Enet since they were the underdogs of the NBP.

I wonder what Enet are smoking?

Persiancowboy

The champagne corks are definitely popping in Heuston Square now......main rival gone so eir will essentially have a free run. Enet might win a segment of the country but it's really game over for any serious competitive tension in the bidding process.

Price is also going to rise and as a couple of posters have mentioned in recent days, likelihood of a higher % of premises ending up with a non-fibre solution has also now increased. eir can now effectively call the shots during the competitive dialogue/bidding process.

Don't blame the Dept....they were over a barrel once eir pulled the 300,000 "commercial" premises from the hat. It once again highlights the overall unattractiveness of the Irish market in terms of large-scale capital investment of this kind...we are about the size of Manchester in terms of consumers but like Mongolia in terms of topography and population density...a combination that just doesn't work!!!

KOR101

It's not just that there won't be competitive bidding now, Eir won't be too bothered about rural areas without the threat of SIRO. Expect a BT style approach, unless the government are prepared to pay through the nose.

KOR101

The Department of Communications has confirmed it received the offers before today’s deadline from Eircom and the Granahan McCourt, enet, SSE, John Laing Group plc consortium.

Minister Denis Naughten has hailed it as a significant and positive milestone in the process, and says a specialist team will evaluate the submissions in the coming weeks.

http://www.midlands103.com/news-centre/naughten-hails-significant-milestone-as-two-bids-battle-for-broadband-plan/

grbear

Given today's news and last week's talk of wireless and satellite options I think the chances of me ever getting a reliable broadband connection are now somewhere between slim and none.

garroff

Nothing on RTE 6pm news.
Curious

jgbyr

https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2017/0926/907716-siro-withdraws-from-govts-broadband-tender-proce/

KOR101

The NBP is a zombie process.

http://www.techcentral.ie/siro-quits-national-broadband-plan-expect-follow/

KOR101

Detailed response from department.

https://merrionstreet.ie/en/News-Room/Releases/Milestone_in_National_Broadband_Plan_Reached.html

SkepticQuark

I think a lot of people could smell the blood for a long time, surprised it took them this long to confirm. At the mercy of Eir now at this point and I'm not sure what to think about our house personally. This will surely mean less FTTH and more FTTC and other solutions, no excuse not to provide FTTH to houses like ours though that is only about 1km away from a blue line on the same stretch of road.... Department need to get tough fast on Eir and not let them run around them like they did (and sadly had to) with their "commercial rollout".

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

The NBP is a zombie process.

http://www.techcentral.ie/siro-quits-national-broadband-plan-expect-follow/

That piece is dodgy at best.

... the market has moved on, regional operators are forging ahead with connectivity plans delivering speeds far in excess of the 30Mb/s promised by government way back when.

Who? Imagine?

Persiancowboy

roddy15 wrote: »

I think a lot of people could smell the blood for a long time, surprised it took them this long to confirm. At the mercy of Eir now at this point and I'm not sure what to think about our house personally. This will surely mean less FTTH and more FTTC and other solutions, no excuse not to provide FTTH to houses like ours though that is only about 1km away from a blue line on the same stretch of road.... Department need to get tough fast on Eir and not let them run around them like they did (and sadly had to) with their "commercial rollout".

Department has had as a core principle from the outset of the NBP process that bidders' proposed solutions must be future proofed. Don't expect this to change. Where a greater risk now exists is that in the absence of serious competitive bids (forget enet, they can only seriously cover towns) eir will be in a stronger position to argue for non-fibre solutions in the most difficult or costly to connect premises. This is where Dept will need to be extra vigilant.

KOR101

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

That piece is dodgy at best.

Okay Navi, you called it once, care to call the eventual outcome?

Persiancowboy

KOR101 wrote: »

Okay Navi, you called it once, care to call the eventual outcome?

Agree that Techcentral article is mainly rubbish but it does highlight a very serious problem for Dept and entire NBP process. After today's developments what's the last thing the Dept needs to see happen? ......enet also walking. If that were to happen it creates all sorts of problems, not least with DG Comp in Brussels who won't be pleased to see a major public contract with only a monopoly bidder in the running. Potentially puts enet consortium centre stage now and Dept will be doing its utmost to keep this crowd on the pitch...

tsue921i8wljb3

KOR101 wrote: »

Okay Navi, you called it once, care to call the eventual outcome?

My crystal ball is now on overtime!

I think I've been pretty consistent saying that, since the commitment contract was signed, eir were favourites to win both lots. Today's announcement simply reinforces that. I don't see enet as a credible competitor to eir and you would have to think that since enet recently announced 115000 premises to be passed in regional towns that they may now view themselves as an urban service provider.

However I think more delays are inevitable. eir are claiming 100000 of the 300000 premises to be passed at the end of this week. It has taken them over a year to get this far yet we are to believe they will do double the amount in 15 months. I can't see it myself and therefore either the first NBP premises get pushed back or the rump end of the 300K gets held up.

It sad really in a way. There were such high hopes for SIRO on this forum when they were formed. Now they most likely end up as a bit player in a crowded urban marketplace.

oscarBravo

I'm bitterly disappointed. Having seen the sheer quality of the overhead work SIRO are doing, I had visions of a superbly-built, robust rural fibre network rolled out to the same standard.

rob808

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

My crystal ball is now on overtime!

I think I've been pretty consistent saying that, since the commitment contract was signed, eir were favourites to win both lots. Today's announcement simply reinforces that. I don't see enet as a credible competitor to eir and you would have to think that since enet recently announced 115000 premises to be passed in regional towns that they may now view themselves as an urban service provider.

However I think more delays are inevitable. eir are claiming 100000 of the 300000 premises to be passed at the end of this week. It has taken them over a year to get this far yet we are to believe they will do double the amount in 15 months. I can't see it myself and therefore either the first NBP premises get pushed back or the rump end of the 300K gets held up.

It sad really in a way. There were such high hopes for SIRO on this forum when they were formed. Now they most likely end up as a bit player in a crowded urban marketplace.

Don't count Enet out they seem business they could of pull out to but didn't see winning one lot with Eir the other.

tsue921i8wljb3

rob808 wrote: »

Don't count Enet out they seem business they could of pull out to but didn't see winning one lot with Eir the other.

How do you see them winning a lot when their rollout depends on access to eir infrastructure, they have less manpower, they have less funding, they are committed to an urban project? Are you suggesting that they will undercut eir on their own patch?

rob808

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

How do you see them winning a lot when their rollout depends on access to eir infrastructure, they have less manpower, they have less funding, they are committed to an urban project? Are you suggesting that they will undercut eir on their own patch?

They have that power company helping them with there 115,000 rollout and most likely will with NBP.

joe_99

rob808 wrote: »

They have that power company helping them with there 115,000 rollout and most likely will with NBP.

Airtricity have no local access infrastructure. Very strange partnership