NBP: National Broadband Plan Announced

adocholiday

Gonzo wrote: »

that's probably a wise move. If it was me, I could not move into a home that is facing years, possibly a decade or more of dongles or wireless operators. It would be much better to find a home in along the 300k rural scheme that is already passing by eircode for FTTH.

I could have put up with 4G or whatever for 3-4 years with the hope of getting a half decent wired connection in the near future. I'm not a heavy broadband user. But the risk of getting nothing for as you say potentially a decade or more is too risky. It's an awful pity because the house was the only one we saw in months of searching that ticked all the boses for us otherwise.

tsue921i8wljb3

Gonzo wrote: »

similar to how the NBN is operated in Australia?

The ownership model yes but the Australian NBN is probably turning out to be a bigger disaster than our own but I'm not sure that can be blamed on the model used.

TomOnBoard

Robxxx7 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more ..

Forget this state aid rubbish .. important infrastructure should be owned by the state and leased to operators who require access and pay the price

Too late for that now. Thanks to EU interference and the Government's privatization philosophies of the 1990s, we got rid of our state owned telecoms infrastructure through the Telecom Eireann sale. What do we do now? Buy it back? I don't think so!

We are where we are, and will have to live with those past decisions.

Gonzo

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

The ownership model yes but the Australian NBN is probably turning out to be a bigger disaster than our own but I'm not sure that can be blamed on the model used.

yeah it's a huge mess over there. It was originally meant to be all FTTH, but is now a mix of all technologies. There is huge contention in some areas and not in others. I think the operators their pay the NBN for bandwidth requirements in each area based on what they think an area requires. I know someone who has NBN fixed wireless and it operates really well. They get 50/40 most of the time and I think their data is unlimited. Not bad for wireless.

turbbo

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Too late for that now. Thanks to EU interference and the Government's privatization philosophies of the 1990s, we got rid of our state owned telecoms infrastructure through the Telecom Eireann sale. What do we do now? Buy it back? I don't think so!

We are where we are, and will have to live with those past decisions.

Mary O'Rourke - Fianna Failed.
We will never forget.

turbbo

I remember when it was Telecom Eireann and our phone stopped working - my mum rang from my neighbours house to complain - technician out within hours - how often do you see that happen now?

Persiancowboy

I don’t believe the wrong ownership model was chosen....it’s actually much more likely companies would have lost interest earlier if a state-owned model was being proposed. Companies like eir who are network owners and operators have a strong preference for owning their own networks as against renting/leasing on others.

However, most of these arguments are irrelevant. The simple fact for the department is that when you lie down with dogs you get fleas and they have basically allowed eir run as eir has done with Comreg and other market players for years). This is what incumbent operators do the world over. Department’s biggest mistake was trusting these charlatans to deliver fiber to rural Ireland.

What we now have is eir in new ownership, senior management awash with personal cash from that sale, SIRO safely dispatched to the sidelines and whoever (enet) who gets NBP contract having to pay eir for access to their poles. Eir wins on all grounds and the department is left looking like a rabbit in the headlights.

grbear

I should be raging about this but I'm past the point of being able to work myself up over it.


I've absolutely zero faith in there ever being a worthwhile solution put in place and I fully expect that I'll spend the rest of my days bouncing between different variants of wireless "broadband" and overpaying for the privilege of getting an inferior product.

9726_9726

We all knew the writing was on the wall but to see it in black and white is absolutely shocking. This will result in rural depopulation, no question.

This day will be remembered for a long, long time.

turbbo

9726_9726 wrote: »

We all knew the writing was on the wall but to see it in black and white is absolutely shocking. This will result in rural depopulation, no question.

This day will be remembered for a long, long time.

I wouldn't see this as a major stumbling block. The NBP will hobble along at the pace it was going anyways. Nothing to see here etc. I wouldn't be surprised if Siro and Eir show back up in the tendering process.

The Ritz

This is a perfect example of Eir lying to the Dept repeatedly to forestall Government running a process which would have forced them to compete with others to complete a fibre based rollout to all premises - which was the aim of the Dept from the get-go.

Eir have held off the competition by using the State aid rules to make enough time for them to extend their roll out to exclude real competition ( ie the “agreement” they signed with the Dept) and having got as much market share as they need, they now walk away from the process.

This has left the remaining premises in the least economic areas (in terms of density) to the remaining operator in the process. This will increase the cost per premises subsidy for the Govt, making it more likely that the cheapest (and minimum performing) solution will be provided to the remaining premises. Alternatively, the cost per premises will be swallowed by the Govt, leaving the tax payer picking up the more expensive bill.

In either case, the poor outcome is the price for Eir’s “monopoly” market sequestration.

The Dept should halt the process, citing the dramatic change in the landscape since the NBP competition started, let the rollout(s) finish and then hold a competition when the various players have an incentive to participate.

A NBS outcome where the remaining participant has no incentive other than to maximize return for its shareholder and no competitive pressure is the worst option for the remaining customers seeking high quality broadband, and for the taxpayers who will foot the bill.


Ritz

turbbo

this is pretty good....

https://twitter.com/olivercallan/status/958742255451426816

Johnboy1951

Robxxx7 wrote:

Couldn't agree more ..

Forget this state aid rubbish .. important infrastructure should be owned by the state and leased to operators who require access and pay the price

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Too late for that now. Thanks to EU interference and the Government's privatization philosophies of the 1990s, we got rid of our state owned telecoms infrastructure through the Telecom Eireann sale. What do we do now? Buy it back? I don't think so!

We are where we are, and will have to live with those past decisions.

I would disagree.
There is nothing at all to prevent the gov from using ESB infrastructure to bring fibre out to rural premises.
Set up a sub-esb entity to manage the thing and to ensure the cost of access is done on a commercial basis.

It would require a will that is not present in our politicians (of any colour).

It is long past the time that all this privatisation of vital infrastructure was halted.
Heck it is not so long ago they wanted to hive off ports and airports!
Reckless idiots!

turbbo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I would disagree.
There is nothing at all to prevent the gov from using ESB infrastructure to bring fibre out to rural premises.
Set up a sub-esb entity to manage the thing and to ensure the cost of access is done on a commercial basis.

It would require a will that is not present in our politicians (of any colour).

It is long past the time that all this privatisation of vital infrastructure was halted.
Heck it is not so long ago they wanted to hive off ports and airports!
Reckless idiots!

4 successive ministers all failed - one thing is for sure expecting Eir to roll out broadband is looking very foolish at this stage.

tsue921i8wljb3

Always look on the bright side of life do do, do do do do do

https://twitter.com/adrianweckler/status/958759469386813442

turbbo

Maybe they should ask Ryanair if they would be interested. LOL

rodge123

Ah lads this is just depressing stuff!

This government have been in for nearly two terms now and still as far away as ever from a future proofed solution to rural broadband.
It's utterly ridiculous - it simply isn't a real priority for them no matter how much lip service they give it.

I for one, will never ever vote Fine Gael as long as a live if a fibre based solution has not started before the next election.
I actually gave them the benefit of doubth at last election thinking they would get it started during this term, silly me.

Not that they care about my 1 vote!

KOR101

Good news about a Plan B. The Government certainly is bending over backwards to avoid abandoning their ambitions.

Wing126

Can anyone explain what downsides there are to having only one company left? Will they have complete control over the price per month of the service?

As in, since Enet are the only ones left, if they come to an agreement with the government and rollout the new broadband, can they charge, say, 90 euro a month for this service?

Or will other providers still have access to the cabling?

turbbo

rodge123 wrote: »

Ah lads this is just depressing stuff!

This government have been in for nearly two terms now and still as far away as ever from a future proofed solution to rural broadband.
It's utterly ridiculous - it simply isn't a real priority for them no matter how much lip service they give it.

I for one, will never ever vote Fine Gael as long as a live if a fibre based solution has not started before the next election.
I actually gave them the benefit of doubth at last election thinking they would get it started during this term, silly me.

Not that they care about my 1 vote!

Until they loose the civil servants working in the dept. of comms we're screwed FF/FG/Labour/Greens/Indos all had a shot at delivering this none of them did. One thing they all had in common the same bunch of pen pushers working for them. Sack em.

garroff

turbbo wrote: »

Maybe they should ask Ryanair if they would be interested. LOL

Hate to be caught foe excessive usage charge!!!!

SkepticQuark

Okay only just catching up now but have I got this right: Eir ****ed the plan with their own FTTH rollout and have ****ed it again? Who would have thought the company with the monopoly on the telephone and fixed-line broadband infrastructure would have attempted this sort of sabotage.

turbbo

Just heard the word "wireless" again out of Naughtens mouth as part of the plan B. FFS!

turbbo

Numpty minister and numpty Dept. of communications. Showing that numpty can't and won't get the job done.

rodge123

turbbo wrote: »

Until they loose the civil servants working in the dept. of comms we're screwed FF/FG/Labour/Greens/Indos all had a shot at delivering this none of them did. One thing they all had in common the same bunch of pen pushers working for them. Sack em.

Exactly, needs someone that is technically minded and that will take zero BS from the pen pushers in the civil service - get in there and set very clear objectives for all staff that will determine if they get pay scale increments.
That will light a fire under them.

Johnboy1951

Wing126 wrote: »

Can anyone explain what downsides there are to having only one company left? Will they have complete control over the price per month of the service?

As in, since Enet are the only ones left, if they come to an agreement with the government and rollout the new broadband, can they charge, say, 90 euro a month for this service?

Or will other providers still have access to the cabling?

I don't see a lot, at this stage.
Enet proposal was good enough to make it to the last three, so had to be good enough to sign up.

In the meantime the gov have received a lot of info from the two other bidders who have withdrawn, about costs and difficulties etc etc. so there is no way for Enet to throw in something not yet considered.

If the three were still in the process and Enet were awarded the NBP, we might express surprise, but would be equally glad a decision was made and would look forward to some action on the ground.

Lets just hope that Enet do not wish to pull out, as that would be a bitter pill to swallow.

Maybe the agreement could be signed next month!

At this time I hope Enet do a good job on the rural roll out, and are able to use their turnover to compete with Eir and Siro as their fibre passes through built up areas. As I feel now I would like both to suffer commercially because of this.

tsue921i8wljb3

Wing126 wrote: »

Can anyone explain what downsides there are to having only one company left? Will they have complete control over the price per month of the service?

As in, since Enet are the only ones left, if they come to an agreement with the government and rollout the new broadband, can they charge, say, 90 euro a month for this service?

Or will other providers still have access to the cabling?

No it should still be an open access wholesale network with controlled pricing. The problem with enet being left alone is that they don't really own any infrastructure compared to the two departed companies.

Gonzo

turbbo wrote: »

Just heard the word "wireless" again out of Naughtens mouth as part of the plan B. FFS!

most likely Imagine will come back into play if Enet drop out. Their network is already showing severe contention issues, hate to think what it would be like feeding up to 540k homes.

turbbo

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

I don't see a lot, at this stage.
Enet proposal was good enough to make it to the last three, so had to be good enough to sign up.

In the meantime the gov have received a lot of info from the two other bidders who have withdrawn, about costs and difficulties etc etc. so there is no way for Enet to throw in something not yet considered.

If the three were still in the process and Enet were awarded the NBP, we might express surprise, but would be equally glad a decision was made and would look forward to some action on the ground.

Lets just hope that Enet do not wish to pull out, as that would be a bitter pill to swallow.

Maybe the agreement could be signed next month!

At this time I hope Enet do a good job on the rural roll out, and are able to use their turnover to compete with Eir and Siro as their fibre passes through built up areas. As I feel now I would like both to suffer commercially because of this.

Nothing surer than enet pulling out now too - either that or complaining about not getting paid enough etc. - fairly predictable I would have thought? The plan b though that stinks of BS. The government got their ass handed to them today.

tsue921i8wljb3

Minister's statement:

https://www.dccae.gov.ie/en-ie/news-and-media/press-releases/Pages/Statement-by-the-Minister-for-Communications.aspx

irishfeen

Anyone know much about enet? ... how could they possibly deliver access to broadband in rural Ireland in terms of a physical network?

tsue921i8wljb3

eir statement:

https://www.eir.ie/pressroom/eir-Withdraws-from-NBP/

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

Anyone know much about enet? ... how could they possibly deliver access to broadband in rural Ireland in terms of a physical network?

They will rely on access to eir infrastructure.

SkepticQuark

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

eir statement:

https://www.eir.ie/pressroom/eir-Withdraws-from-NBP/

"the company's board has decided that the risks are too great for its continued participation in the NBP"

That statement alone is why you don't privatise key infrastructure in the first place. Infrastructure should be in the hands of the taxpayer, not the shareholder.

irishfeen

Siena Gigantic Backyard wrote: »

They will rely on access to eir infrastructure.

What if Eir refuses? Is the eir physical network still in public hands?

turbbo

irishfeen wrote: »

What if Eir refuses? Is the eir physical network still in public hands?

Nail on head there. Rollout Plan B

tsue921i8wljb3

irishfeen wrote: »

What if Eir refuses? Is the eir physical network still in public hands?

They can be compelled by Comreg or through legislation to provide reasonably priced access.

Johnboy1951

Naughten still mentions June/July as the award date for the NBP ...... pity they could not fast-track it now and get it going asap.

rodge123

turbbo wrote: »

Nail on head there. Rollout Plan B

Did the EU not pass some law stating that utility companies must share their infrastructure at a reasonable price if requested?

rodge123

Our buddy Naughten is on 6 one news now in 2 minutes! Oh the excitement!

ussjtrunks

So theres 1 company left in the bidding then why hasn't been awarded already, seems strange unless theres still mounds of paperwork left

The high horse brigade

Still taking crap about all the fibre that's already been delivered

Johnboy1951

Yes, eir are legally obliged to give access to others to their infrastructure (poles) ........ but the problem might be how much they charge.

Presently that is €20 per pole per year ...... which can be quite a lot outside built up areas.

Redriddick

In light of the fact there is now only one admissible tenderer the government can now negotiate the tender value and terms and conditions

SkepticQuark

So how feasible does everyone think it is for Enet to actually be able to deliver the goods? I imagine given their expertise they would maybe target a more wholesale approach to the plan? Provide the fibre to the locations and let the ISPs manage it?

ednwireland

roddy15 wrote: »

So how feasible does everyone think it is for Enet to actually be able to deliver the goods? I imagine given their expertise they would maybe target a more wholesale approach to the plan? Provide the fibre to the locations and let the ISPs manage it?

we have a MAN in the town run by enet installed 2003 never lit
They reannounced a fibre roll out for businesses in the town last September. Emailed for details didn't even get a reply (I work for a software company in a rural town)
my td can't get any response out of them I dont beleive they can deliver anything on my experience apartt from siphoning gov. Money.

SkepticQuark

ednwireland wrote: »

we have a MAN in the town run by enet installed 2003 never lit
They reannounced a fibre roll out for businesses in the town last September. Emailed for details didn't even get a reply (I work for a software company in a rural town)
my td can't get any response out of them I dont beleive they can deliver anything on my experience apartt from siphoning gov. Money.

So basically Eir's partner in crime? How lovely.

Marlow

roddy15 wrote: »

So basically Eir's partner in crime? How lovely.

No .. they're actually worse than eir. Because opposed to OpenEIR (which is regulated), the government nor Comreg is interested in regulating eNets pricing of government owned infrastructure, so they can charge whatever they want. (it's a bit more complicated, but you get the picture)

/M

godskitchen

Absolutely unbelievable. I imagine Eir have seen the true cost of running fibre as part of their extra 300k and now know the nbp won't have the funds.

If the government can get me a trunk line to within 5km of my village myself and the neighbours will do the rest ala b4rn style.

wexfordman2

State needs to come down hard on eir now, both in respect of access to infrastructure and uso .