Ash stained as walnut

rampantbunny

Hi all. Soon, I'll be looking for a joiner to manufacture some wooden 'sleeves' for a project I have. The sleeves are basically cladding for the steps on a steel stairs.

I'm looking for a walnut type finish. Had a chat to some joiners and two out of three suggested I use ash stained as walnut, instead of forking out for the more expensive walnut. Another joiner tells me that it doesn't look the part.

I haven't seen it in the flesh myself. Anyone here have any thoughts on this approach?

dathi

use the walnut the stairs will get traffic on it every day and the stain on the ash will wear off after a few years and will be a b itch to repair where as the walnut can be re varnished/ lacquered without having to worry about staining strong believer in leaving ash as ash, oak as oak, etc and not slaping on stain to pretend you have something that you dont

rampantbunny

Thanks Dathi.

Apart from the maintenance aspect, would you expect there to be a significant price difference between the approaches?

recipio

Avoid ash at all cost - I'm surprised you were given that advice. Ash has soft and hard timber in the growth rings and will not absorb stain evenly. Poplar is a far better choice if you want to use stain.
If the look is important I think you are better off using walnut regardless of cost. If it gets a bit tired in a few years its not a huge job to sand and re-varnish. Think of all those maple stairs in shops where the finish has worn off. I once coated a pine staircase with a two pack acid catalized lacquer and the finish was a bit patchy. The odour was almost unbearable ! I now use 3-4 coats of polyurethane for a 'bartop' finish but using a good quality brush makes all the difference.
Apparently Teak left unvarnished is very tough but you will need a second mortgage to buy it.

rampantbunny

That's two nays against the stained ash route.
Begs the question why it was an option to begin with. Can't see the joiners making more money going that route, but I'm sure they have reasons.

Thanks all.

Miname

I've often used ash stained down is walnut. It all depends on what people's budgets are. Ash is a quater the price of walnut and anybody who uses any form of quantities of it knows that walnut boards are getting narrower and narrower every year. Serious waste also. Oak is another in between option stained down it looks very well and it's a nice reasonable price. If the right stains are used there should be a good coat soaked well into the wood and you will have no trouble with wear. Any timber will wear if the proper finishes aren't used.

rampantbunny

Thanks Miname.
The crucial point for me is this then;

Miname wrote: »

If the right stains are used there should be a good coat soaked well into the wood and you will have no trouble with wear.

As a layman, I'm not going to be know if the right stains have been used. Visual inspection by myself won't be enough. So if I get a stained product and in a few years it looks worn, I'll need to get professionals in to fix.
At least if using walnut to begin with I have some chance of remedying the situation myself without loading up on the expense.

What I need to do really, is view examples of stained ash/oak that have been on a site for a number of years to see how it holds up.

recipio

Maybe get quotes for the relative prices of walnut and ash ? I doubt walnut ( i.e. black American walnut ) is four time as expensive.?
Staining is a bit of a black art. As far as I know most professional shops would spray a spirit stain and that adds to the cost.
You can' make a silk purse etc

Miname

recipio wrote: »

Maybe get quotes for the relative prices of walnut and ash ? I doubt walnut ( i.e. black American walnut ) is four time as expensive.?
Staining is a bit of a black art. As far as I know most professional shops would spray a spirit stain and that adds to the cost.
You can' make a silk purse etc

It's four times the price once milling and jointing is done, serious waste on it at the moment. You'll be looking T 2" min on a steel stairs unless your cladding and the price differential is massive on inch and 2"

recipio

Miname wrote: »

It's four times the price once milling and jointing is done, serious waste on it at the moment. You'll be looking T 2" min on a steel stairs unless your cladding and the price differential is massive on inch and 2"

I agree the price goes up with the dimensional width. For stair thread cappings I'd imagine it would be ok to glue two 1" boards together ?

Miname

recipio wrote: »

I agree the price goes up with the dimensional width. For stair thread cappings I'd imagine it would be ok to glue two 1" boards together ?

Depends, it's hard to get clear joints when you have varying shades and it's really hard to get the really clear black walnut.

galwaydude18

Miname wrote: »

Depends, it's hard to get clear joints when you have varying shades and it's really hard to get the really clear black walnut.

You won't get clear black walnut in this country. You will always get it with the sap. If you want threads that are fully black walnut the cost is going to be considerable as all the edges of the boards will have to be cut off and that causes an issue with waste and extra cost in material.

The ash stained to look like walnut will look awful. Ash doesn't have any grain patterns like walnut and the joiners telling you otherwise are taking the piss. As other have said a chip or anything and its hard to get an exact match on the stain and will stand out also when repaired.