How to tackle this..

ahmeeehead

poipoipo wrote: »

OP, be careful that the lure of engagement/marriage doesn't become the "carrot" that makes your gf behave over the next few years. Or equally that she doesn't feel resentful for having to jump through hoops& tests before you decide that it's "safe" to propose, that she's proven her worth to you.
After many years of dating already, you should feel that if the opportunity arose,o you could happily marry this girl in the morning. Any recent transgressions in the past few months should be overshadowed by your long history together. If your entire faith in her can be undermined so easily with this "blip", you really should question the strength of your feelings& trust.
What's going to change in a few years? Not you, not her, not the concept of marriage. Are you simply kicking the ball down the road?

Very wise post. This is so out of the ordinary for me. I have not mentioned anything to her about a timeline or behaviour I wish to see before I will propose. This is a purely personal thing. I do not wish to marry before I'm in my mid 30s - she is aware of this and happy.

It feels so weird talking like this about somebody I hope I am going to spend the rest of my life with but these comments are really making me question myself. That's human nature I suppose.

I genuinely believe what I have said already. Not because I can't bare to lose her but because that's the person I know.

I didn't want to post this but we have gone through some very personal difficulties relating to family and myself - suicide attempts (not me or her) and drug and alcohol addiction.. all sorts of misery that would make a poor girl run a mile. Before we made any kind of future together she was with me and supported me in such awful depressing circumstances that I will never forget. We were both really broke and defeated for such a long time but she was the most positive and greatest blessing I could have asked for.

The most gentle, kind hearted and beautiful girl I have ever known. I mat regret such a sappy comment but yolo.

LLMMML

I think she sounds pretty nice. Basically you gave her free reign with your money and she overspent. You didn't say anything so she continued overspending. Then you said something and she was embarrassed. Sounds perfectly fine and I think you should close this thread as at this point you're going into the overanalysis stage and you're going to get coloured responses here as everyone seems to think she's some kind of demon. I mean she told her mother something that upset her in her relationship and people on here seem to be outraged. From the history you have of your relationship she sounds like one of the good ones.

DoctorBoo

My two cents: I have a lot of experience with Italian families - they share a lot. Topics that I wouldn't generally discuss with my parents are discussed at mealtimes with parents, aunts, uncles, cousins and even some neighbours present. It's a cultural difference, so unlike some posters who think it's suspicious that your girlfriend discussed this with her family, O would find it totally normal.
By law, Italian parents are required to provide for their children even into adulthood. This is a reflection of the cultural belief that ultimately parents are always responsible for their children financially (if at all possible). This is quite different from the Irish system where people are considered adults at 18, and while parents do help out with college etc, there is an expectation that people will begin to ne financially independent at a relatively early age. My guess is that your girlfriend knew her father couldn't afford to finance her education, but equally didn't want to upset him or put pressure on him by letting him know you were paying.
I think the best way to deal with the father now would be to tell him that you paid for her education because you love her, and people go to many lengths for the people they love. I know it's cheesy as hell, but the concept is clear (thinking of the language barrier here) and really it's the truth. Also, it's a line of thinking that Italians understand well. Tell him that it was important to you to do it and that you cannot accept his money.

Paddywiggum

LLMMML wrote: »

I think she sounds pretty nice. Basically you gave her free reign with your money and she overspent. You didn't say anything so she continued overspending. Then you said something and she was embarrassed. Sounds perfectly fine and I think you should close this thread as at this point you're going into the overanalysis stage and you're going to get coloured responses here as everyone seems to think she's some kind of demon. I mean she told her mother something that upset her in her relationship and people on here seem to be outraged. From the history you have of your relationship she sounds like one of the good ones.

i agree wholeheartedly with the above. Oftentimes the negativity on this site is overwhelming and unwarranted.

As relationships go it sounds like ye have a great one, this is an issue and im sure it can be resolved.

You should repeat your 'sappy' comment over and over in your head until you realise that's the person you are with and then get on with making each other happy. Best of luck.

IHeartShoes

LLMMML wrote: »

I think she sounds pretty nice. Basically you gave her free reign with your money and she overspent. You didn't say anything so she continued overspending. Then you said something and she was embarrassed. Sounds perfectly fine and I think you should close this thread as at this point you're going into the overanalysis stage and you're going to get coloured responses here as everyone seems to think she's some kind of demon. I mean she told her mother something that upset her in her relationship and people on here seem to be outraged. From the history you have of your relationship she sounds like one of the good ones.

I think the above is spot on! The character assassination going on, on here is both astounding and unwarranted I would say. I'm really not one bit surprised she reacted in the way she did. I would also be mortified, faced with what she was faced with. From what you have described above, you were lucky to have 'found' such a great girl and potential life partner. And she you of course, not everyone is fortunate to meet someone they are so compatible with etc. I would really mind that relationship.

Best of luck.

strandroad

LLMMML wrote: »

I think she sounds pretty nice. Basically you gave her free reign with your money and she overspent. You didn't say anything so she continued overspending. Then you said something and she was embarrassed. Sounds perfectly fine and I think you should close this thread as at this point you're going into the overanalysis stage and you're going to get coloured responses here as everyone seems to think she's some kind of demon. I mean she told her mother something that upset her in her relationship and people on here seem to be outraged. From the history you have of your relationship she sounds like one of the good ones.

It sounds this way to me too.

Also OP, I think you should formalise her input into the company, also in your head. In some posts you make it sound as if you're the businessman and she's riding on your coat tails, in others you say that she has serious input and puts in serious work effort. How much of the company is her input? 10%? 25%? 50%? Is she a co-founder, partner or an ordinary employee? Decide, and credit her appropriately. If you keep treating your working relationship as "oh my girlfriend was just helping me out" it's bound to end up badly sooner or later.

bohsfan

OP- just read the whole thread. It sounds to me like you guys have a good relationship together that is just going through a difficult patch.

Despite living together for many years this girl is still living in a foreign country, and dealing with having a smaller than normal support network when it comes to family.

She indulged in a bout of overspending- what you guys need to work out is what was at the root of this. You mentioned you have spent time away recently. Has she been lonely or bored? Is she missing family and friends? Is she secretly fearing finishing her education and going out on her own?

Any of these things could have sparked something inside her. At least it wasn't pills or booze. She now feels ashamed after you confronted her about it. That's fair enough- you are both hurting. The important thing is to get at the reasons behind it.

The issue with her family isn't really important. Her Dad just wants to feel that he is providing for his child. I'm sure a well structured chat would sort all of that out.

I hope things work out OP- remember to look out for your mental health, and that of your girlfriend, and things will get better.

ahmeeehead

I've been busy and didn't get to check in for a few days. Thanks so much for all the kind posts. Really overwhelming reading all that positivity!

I'm glad some posters have started to see my way of thinking and that I'm not completely insane! I'm typing from a tablet as I'm on the move so I can't quote all the posts I'd like to.

I definitely think she is one of the good ones. Just refreshing to read that!

DoctorBoo - I'm still getting to grips with the Italian way but this is so true. Her family are very close and they discuss everything. I'm like that with my mother so I don't find it intrusive at all. They do not interfere with our relationship and I know for sure that they like me so I don't have any complaints. I know of many in laws from hell stories that I'm just glad that I don't have to deal with that. I will explain it to him taking all your advice on board.

Mhge - I was pretty upset in my early posts so some of the things I said may have been unnecessary. I think the simplest way to explain it is that I would have been 'successful' with or without my OH, however she has taken care of me in tough times, all of our affairs (which is a job in itself) and advised me very well. I tend to act before thinking things through, I'm very impulsive. She takes a more considered approach and her advice has been a major benefit to me and our company.

For example, our breakthrough contract was in large part due to her advising me well. I don't think it would have happened had I acted on my own instincts.

This pretty much changed our lives forever as it has led to more. On the other hand I put in most of the actual 'work' and my uncle funded the early stages and is still indirectly involved.

It's just such a tricky situation because we are so young and inexperienced. I have 'given' her at least €150,000 in the last 4 years. Probably a lot more than that but I haven't been counting.

Should that be seen as payment for her advice? I would like to give her a share in the business but I have been advised not to for the moment. I really don't know what is fair..

I was considering giving her a lump sum but her recent wastefulness has totally soured that idea.

20% seems like an insult in some ways, 50% and I could be in trouble if our circumstances changed. Such an awkward situation. She has never hinted at this and I think she'd be surprised if I said this to her.

As has been made clear already, I'm not mean with money but I don't want it to affect our relationship either.


Bohsfan - I think all of those things you mentioned are a factor. We are away for 6 days together and I will make an effort to be home more or for her to travel with me.

I know that's long and probably belongs on the business forum!

power pants

Id maybe hold off completely with any gestures regarding shares of the business.

Tackle the issues at present, by doing the above it may well lead to more confusion and problems and sends out mixed messages to your girlfriend.

Potatoeman

After she spent so long in college does she not want to get a job in her field of study?

ahmeeehead

Cheers Power Pants.

She will be doing so in 2015 as mentioned earlier. 3-4 years minimum. If she wishes to stay that's fine.

strandroad

ahmeeehead wrote: »

Mhge - I was pretty upset in my early posts so some of the things I said may have been unnecessary. I think the simplest way to explain it is that I would have been 'successful' with or without my OH, however she has taken care of me in tough times, all of our affairs (which is a job in itself) and advised me very well. I tend to act before thinking things through, I'm very impulsive. She takes a more considered approach and her advice has been a major benefit to me and our company.

For example, our breakthrough contract was in large part due to her advising me well. I don't think it would have happened had I acted on my own instincts.

This pretty much changed our lives forever as it has led to more. On the other hand I put in most of the actual 'work' and my uncle funded the early stages and is still indirectly involved.

It's just such a tricky situation because we are so young and inexperienced. I have 'given' her at least €150,000 in the last 4 years. Probably a lot more than that but I haven't been counting.

Should that be seen as payment for her advice? I would like to give her a share in the business but I have been advised not to for the moment. I really don't know what is fair..

I was considering giving her a lump sum but her recent wastefulness has totally soured that idea.

20% seems like an insult in some ways, 50% and I could be in trouble if our circumstances changed. Such an awkward situation. She has never hinted at this and I think she'd be surprised if I said this to her.

As has been made clear already, I'm not mean with money but I don't want it to affect our relationship either.

It sounds like a significant input alright, although nowhere near your own level. You really should consider how to recognise it formally - there's no rush, but so far her work and the company's money were flowing around freely and as you can see it already got your relationship into trouble. Don's ask your family, talk to a professional if you need advice. Probably a good rule of thumb would be to establish "how much smaller would the company/income be if I was on my own", and to credit the difference to her. Whether it's salary, shares or a lump sum, once you have a firm idea you can always discuss with her whether what she received before should be somehow deducted. If she basically received 150k out of the income, how much did you receive? Does the proportion reflect your respective input well? Or perhaps you will consider the fact of supporting her in the past as independent of the business - you were doing it because she was your partner and that's all.

Whichever way it goes, you should definitely untangle this and you'll both be clearer on where you stand, plus save yourselves bigger resentments coming down the line.

Tiddlypeeps

ahmeeehead wrote: »

20% seems like an insult in some ways, 50% and I could be in trouble if our circumstances changed. Such an awkward situation. She has never hinted at this and I think she'd be surprised if I said this to her.

You are under no obligation to give her any part of the company it sounds like she has been well compensated for her input, but if you do choose to I would be very careful offering her anymore than 10%. Anything above that and you need her direct consent to do certain things with the business, like issuing new shares or selling the company if I recall correctly. Definitely seek decent legal advice on all potential outcomes just incase things do go wrong if you do go down that road.

I agree with most of the more recent posts, your gf sounds really nice. I think it's very easy to see how someone, of her age especially, could slip into the position she did. Particularly if that behaviour was normalised by the people around her (you mentioned she might be influenced by people in the new area you moved to). She still did wrong, but she does sound genuinely remorseful for letting herself slip into a mindset where that behaviour was ok.

ahmeeehead

I would guess that she has received a larger portion of our income in the last few years. In fact I'm positive of that. I have a lot of expenses when travelling etc. They are separate though.

I understand it's hard to comment with such little detail. I was advised by a professional, albeit a family friend.

When we are married I would just like us to be equals.

The company was last valued at 1.4m.. But I think that's conservative and it's likely to grow if things continue as they are.

It's possible that it will be sold on but for the foreseeable future I would like us to continue aswe are.

This is becoming less of a personal issue. If it's against the charter the thread can be closed.

ahmeeehead

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

You are under no obligation to give her any part of the company it sounds like she has been well compensated for her input, but if you do choose to I would be very careful offering her anymore than 10%. Anything above that and you need her direct consent to do certain things with the business, like issuing new shares or selling the companye if I recall correctly. Definitely seek decent legal advice on all potential outcomes just incase things do go wrong if you do go down that road.

I agree with most of the more recent posts, your gf sounds really nice. I think it's very easy to see how someone, of her age especially, could slip into the position she did. Particularly if that behaviour was normalised by the people around her (you mentioned she might be influenced by people in the new area you moved to). She still did wrong, but she does sound genuinely remorseful for letting herself slip into a mindset where that behaviour was ok.

That's a very interesting input. Thanks.

Would love to hear your opinion now I have declared a rough value of our assets.

I'm going to follow my heart and trust the person I know. I hate taking legal advice etc. behind her back because it seems so deceitful. That's just the position I'm in though and I have a responsibility to people who work for me and both of us.

I think I'll speak to somebody independent in Dublin and see what they say.

Is it common for married couples to have 90/10 partnerships in companies?

I'm probably giving way too much info away here considering its an anonymous post!

Thank you.

strandroad

Tiddlypeeps wrote: »

I agree with most of the more recent posts, your gf sounds really nice. I think it's very easy to see how someone, of her age especially, could slip into the position she did. Particularly if that behaviour was normalised by the people around her (you mentioned she might be influenced by people in the new area you moved to). She still did wrong, but she does sound genuinely remorseful for letting herself slip into a mindset where that behaviour was ok.

I agree. It just feels like the girlfriend was generous with her input and support and OP has been generous with his (possibly partially hers - depends on the input) money, but no boundaries have been set and the credit card overspending was where this lack of boundaries manifested itself first. It's a good opportunity now to set such boundaries and to give credit appropriately.

strandroad

ahmeeehead wrote: »

I would guess that she has received a larger portion of our income in the last few years. In fact I'm positive of that. I have a lot of expenses when travelling etc. They are separate though.

I understand it's hard to comment with such little detail. I was advised by a professional, albeit a family friend.

When we are married I would just like us to be equals.

The company was last valued at 1.4m.. But I think that's conservative and it's likely to grow if things continue as they are.

It's possible that it will be sold on but for the foreseeable future I would like us to continue aswe are.

This is becoming less of a personal issue. If it's against the charter the thread can be closed.

If you're now worth 1.4 million plus whatever you received over the years, and she got 150k, it does not look like she was overcompensated. She was basically paid something resembling a salary while you kept all the shares and control, and drew some cash as well.

ahmeeehead

Mhge - thanks that's my opinion too.

It's trying to figure out a 'fair' compensation that's stressing me to an early grave.

strandroad

ahmeeehead wrote: »

Mhge - thanks that's my opinion too.

It's trying to figure out a 'fair' compensation that's stressing me to an early grave.

There's probably no point for you to give more detail but to me it feels like she did have a hand in the initial success of the company and would probably deserve a small minority share, and if she continues to contribute, a salary (lower than yours proportionately to your duties and input these days). It feels like she was adequately compensated in previous years, in relation to what you got for your larger work.

If you are to grow your business and prosper, you'll need to be able to solve such issues as to be fair to everyone but to keep emotions and funds apart. Looks like your partner is a reasonable woman who got carried away with spending with no system in place but also recognises what was wrong and why and is willing to fix it. Just let her know how much her work is worth and she can get her own cards. Debit preferably

Littlekittylou

I think at this point reading the thread's ins and outs it feels like it has gone a little over my head.

I think perhaps if she was working for you it would have been best to give her a P90 and to pay her a set wage with job expectations. It might have made things clearer.

I would not rush into giving her shares. For a number of reasons. I think if your relationship broke up in the future for whatever reasons you would end up having to buy them back. And all of that might not be good for the company. As far as your business is concerned be business minded. If she works anymore for you than give her a salary or formally pay as in freelance work.

As far as the GF is concerned well now it sounds like she has some amazing stuff to put on her C.V and perhaps you even might help her get an amazing job which will be all her own.Your job as BF is to support her and if you have any contacts or whatever you can help her that way.

She helped you because she loved you not to get financial compensation.

strandroad

Littlekittylou wrote: »

She helped you because she loved you not to get financial compensation.

I'd be careful with such statements. It causes so many problems within families when someone's contribution to a business is not formally recognised... The whole thing ends up in a massive lawsuit or a feud when the business is sold, people get divorced etc.

Johngoose

Cancel the credit card man.Provide for her food,accommodation and give her an allowance if you wish,but put an end to this abuse.

ahmeeehead

Hi all,

Just getting Back to Boards now. I was very annoyed/stressed when I posted initially and probably understated and overstated the circumstances depending on my mood.

We had a great week away together. Stress levels have dropped big time. All sorted with OH family thanks to the helpful advice here.

Mods, feel free to close this thread as I think it's run its course now.

Sincerest thanks to everybody that posted. It's been a great help!

Tokyo

Thread closed at OP's request.