Bicycle deaths double

Qualitymark

Is this because of the hostility shown by some drivers lately?

http://www.thejournal.ie/cyclist-deaths-irish-roads-1803673-Nov2014/

Hunterbiker

No its about journalism playing with statistics...

henryporter

While it's extremely sad that 11 people have lost their lives cycling on Irish roads this year, it's not helpful to resort to the stock retort that driver behaviour is solely to blame. Plenty of threads have been exhausted on bad drivers, bad cyclists, bad enforcement, but it's not helpful to those who lost their lives, those who got very seriously injured, or their families to keep cranking up the blame game each time a click bait rag like the Journal needs a few columns to fill.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

I don't think it's fair to blame only one category of road user.

Qualitymark

Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?

Sofiztikated

Possibly due to an increase in number of cyclists?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Qualitymark wrote: »

Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?

On category of road user kills all pedestrians too. Safest thing would be to ban all drivers.

surpy

its a sad statistic, but needs context of number of cyclists, miles cycled, number of cars and many more

Chips Lovell

When you're dealing with such low overall numbers, "doubling" makes it sound more sensational than it really is.

In the absence of inquest reports or convictions, I don't think there's any grounds to claim that these six deaths were down to driver hostility.

Qualitymark

Oscar-Gateaux, in my own experience some drivers are behaving very dangerously towards cyclists lately; there seems to be a propaganda war going on in which cyclists are the baddies, rather than fellow-road-users that someone driving three tons of metal should be lovely careful of.
One example: I was cycling to Shamrokon, held in a hotel in Burlington Road, where a cyclist was killed a couple of weeks ago. I turned into the road, checked, signalled, and moved right to dismount at the traffic island in the centre and cross to the hotel.
A taxi driver, assuming wrongly that I was signalling to make a right turn the wrong way down a one-way street, abandoned his duty to actually look at the road in front of him, and leaned out the window screaming back at me while swerving and blaring his horn.
Even if I had intended to go down the one-way, this was none of his business. His behaviour was extraordinarily dangerous. And it's not unusual.
I've had drivers drive straight at me, beeping, as I make a legal right turn (while wearing fluorescents and lit up like a Christmas tree). I've had drivers cut into the cycle lane in front of me. I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light while I waited at the pedestrian crossing to wheel my bicycle across.
There's a huge attitude change, and it's dangerous.

Koobcam

It seems in general that more people are dying on the roads, be it cyclists, motorists or other categories. Personally, I suspect it is mainly the result of the fact that there are more people on the roads at peak times-basically, economic growth is resulting in increasing numbers of road deaths.

seamus

Qualitymark wrote: »

Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?

That's a bit disingenuous - there was one cyclist killed recently after he came off his bike when he hit an oil spill on a descent.

Aside from the obvious thing that the numbers are so low as to render "doubling" meaningless, there are likely lots of things at play here, not least the increase in the volume of cyclists on the road, the increase in overall traffic and number of people at work, and the long run of clear and dry weather we've had since the start of the summer.

Personally, I haven't noticed any increase in driver hostility towards cyclists, quite the opposite in fact. However, from what I can see driver behaviour has degraded quite seriously, drivers taking more risks and breaking more rules. This could be a result of increased traffic volumes causing frustration or it might be down to a reduction in enforcement.
I also seem to be encountering more HGVs within Dublin than previously, though that may just be a seasonal thing.

Lumen

Qualitymark wrote: »

I've had drivers drive straight at me, beeping, as I make a legal right turn (while wearing fluorescents and lit up like a Christmas tree). I've had drivers cut into the cycle lane in front of me. I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light while I waited at the pedestrian crossing to wheel my bicycle across.

None of this happens to me. I commute about 150km a week through Dublin traffic.

Maybe you're doing it wrong.

Dismounting in the middle of the road in order to cross the opposite carriageway as a pedestrian is exactly the sort of unpredictable behaviour that contributes to incidents; maybe I misunderstood your account.

Beasty

Last year's figure was, IIRC, an all time low. In recent years the number of deaths has dropped, until it levelled out at around 10 a year. The information being sensationalised by the Journal is entirely in line with recent statistical experience.

In fact, I think there were an abnormal number back around January (3 deaths during the month I think) time. I am pretty sure the "annualised rate" since say March would be lower than 11.

DirkVoodoo

Just don't read the comments. It's depressing. There is an unhealthy amount of ignorance and stupidity when it comes to the roads in this country.

tl;dr - High viz and segregation will solve all our problems.

galwaycyclist

Koobcam wrote: »

It seems in general that more people are dying on the roads, be it cyclists, motorists or other categories. Personally, I suspect it is mainly the result of the fact that there are more people on the roads at peak times-basically, economic growth is resulting in increasing numbers of road deaths.

This. It is my view that a proportion of the recent drop in road deaths was down to economic factors. Specifically the price of fuel and unemployment. The most dangerous cohort of drivers - males under 25 - have been the hardest hit by unemployment and by emigration.

In the absence of adequate policing, road deaths will go back up as the economy recovers and the price of fuel drops again.

Lumen

galwaycyclist wrote: »

This. It is my view that a proportion of the recent drop in road deaths was down to economic factors. Specifically the price of fuel and unemployment. The most dangerous cohort of drivers - males under 25 - have been the hardest hit by unemployment and by emigration.

Are they dangerous to cyclists though?

Young male drivers (of the lowered and exhausted Vauxhall Nova persuasion) are underrepresented in the (minor and infrequent) issues I have with discourtesy and impatient driving.

Mostly they seem to wait patiently for an overtaking opportunity and then safely blast past, enjoying the road space I've created for them in front of me.

galwaycyclist

Lumen wrote: »

Are they dangerous to cyclists though?

Young male drivers (of the lowered and exhausted Vauxhall Nova persuasion) are underrepresented in the (minor and infrequent) issues I have with discourtesy and impatient driving.

Mostly they seem to wait patiently for an overtaking opportunity and then safely blast past, enjoying the road space I've created for them in front of me.

Thats a fair question and I don't know the answer. One of the arguments for getting more young men cycling is that they are less able to kill others while they are on bikes.

But that does not address the original question.

By the way I don't think your criticism of someone dismounting at a central island is fair or reasonable.

Tenzor07

As another poster has already eluded to, there is definitely an increase in bicycle users on city roads etc, and with bike share schemes coming online all over Ireland... Yet all these bicycles being left to there own devices and sent out to play with the bus's and taxi's competing for space, no extra consideration for the extra bicycle road users(advance traffic signals, joined up cycle lanes, induction loops at traffic signals which work for bicycles etc)... Sadly accidents and deaths can occur when you have vehicles all competing for space, with the most vulnerable road users coming off worse..

I do a cross town commute a few times a week and I've seen it all, cyclists go through lights, cars speeding through amber/red, cars with faulty headlights or lights not turned on, cyclists with no lights and just high vis or black clothing, no one group of road user can say they stick to basic rules...

I never get beeped or shouted at probably because I have a reasonable level of fitness/speed, a well maintained lightweight bike, am wearing cycle-gear and only carry a light backpack that I can get ahead of/stay ahead of cars and buses by kicking the speed up to 40kph when needed...
But your average bicyclist may not be fit, may be on a heavy bike or carrying a heavy bag and struggle to get the speed up who are most vulnerable..

Macy0161

I wouldn't rule out driver aggressiveness, which imo is being whipped up by personalities and elements in the media.

Was it earlier this year, or last year, that a Top Gear presenter was giving out about a cyclist not allowing him to perform an illegal overtaking manoeuvre on a Zebra Crossing by not letting him squeeze past? I was on a night out in the last few weeks and commuting/ the increased traffic volumes came up, and I stated I'm cycling part of the commute now. The lads were queuing up to give me the tales of how cyclists are the anti-Christ’s of the roads. Now whether I'm just more attuned to it now or not, to be honest I feel threatened enough that Santa is bringing me an action cam, which will be used on the commute as well as off road! Probably as a dash cam in the car too, there's that many rubbish drivers!

Lumen

galwaycyclist wrote: »

By the way I don't think your criticism of someone dismounting at a central island is fair or reasonable.

I only suggested that it was unpredictable.

The genesis of many road incidents is someone doing something surprising.

CramCycle

seamus wrote: »

That's a bit disingenuous - there was one cyclist killed recently after he came off his bike when he hit an oil spill on a descent.

Another hit a bollard on the way home from SOMEWHERE late at night with no lights. Oddly enough the news reports only brought up his lack of a helmet, and so far any other details about the incident have not been made widely available.

Personally, I haven't noticed any increase in driver hostility towards cyclists, quite the opposite in fact. However, from what I can see driver behaviour has degraded quite seriously, drivers taking more risks and breaking more rules. This could be a result of increased traffic volumes causing frustration or it might be down to a reduction in enforcement.
I also seem to be encountering more HGVs within Dublin than previously, though that may just be a seasonal thing.

Same here, no increase in aggression, in fact, it seems to have generally lowered in my experience in terms of numbers, a few of the angry ones maybe louder but they do appear to be fewer. The small percentage of idiots on a bike or in a car seem to be getting stupider in there behaviour but that's about it.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Qualitymark wrote: »

Except that one category of road user is the one that kills cyclists?

Just because a cyclist had died due to being hit by a motor vehicle, doesn't automatically make it the fault of the motor vehicle.

Cyclists kill cyclists too.

Qualitymark

Lucian Ugly Domino wrote: »

Cyclists kill cyclists too.

Really? When has that happened in Ireland? Last one I remember is a case in Enniskerry when two lads with girlfriends on their crossbars blew out their brakes coming down the hill from Knocknacree and crashed into the monument in the centre. Still remembered in Enniskerry as if it was yesterday, but I'm not sure when it was - 1930s?

mal1

Lumen wrote: »

None of this happens to me. I commute about 150km a week through Dublin traffic.

Maybe you're doing it wrong.

Dismounting in the middle of the road in order to cross the opposite carriageway as a pedestrian is exactly the sort of unpredictable behaviour that contributes to incidents; maybe I misunderstood your account.

Drivers cutting into the cycle lane in front of you, this never happens to you? It happens to me at least once a week when commuting. How can he be doing something wrong that causes a car to encroach on a cycle lane?

I think his general comment in relation to drivers going out of their way to protest is valid. It's dangerous. A driver taking his attention off the road to protest is more dangerous than a cyclist doing likewise. Although nobody should do it but it's hard, i try and often fail.

eeeee

I'm finding that the slower you go the more incidents you have. I am back on the bike after a while off it as slow as fcuk at the minute. The amount of bad behaviour from other road users has doubled at least (in my very unscientific, anecdotal experience) from my speedier usual. It's quite a bit scarier out there at 20-25kph than above.

alias no.9

Qualitymark wrote: »

I turned into the road, checked, signalled, and moved right to dismount at the traffic island in the centre and cross to the hotel.

Would you think it appropriate for someone to get out of a car or any other vehicle at a traffic island? I certainly wouldn't.
Most of the rules of the road are there to make the behaviour of others predictable. All road users are constantly gauging the actions of others in order to make decisions about how they can safely proceed.
The more obvious you can make your intended actions, the safer it is for everyone. Signaling right and moving across a lane approaching a junction reads as a right turn, not as the intention to come to a full stop and dismount. I'm pretty sure if a car had signalled right and either come to a stop to let someone out at that traffic island or indeed to make an illegal right turn, they'd have got the same treatment. It had nothing to do with your bike.

Beasty

This is probably the busiest time of the year traffic-wise, and there has definitely been a pick-up compared to recent years also. I am definitely finding a lot more motorists impatient and prepared to overtake when it really is not safe enough to do so, often causing them to cut back across way too early because of oncoming traffic.

CramCycle

Beasty wrote: »

This is probably the busiest time of the year traffic-wise, and there has definitely been a pick-up compared to recent years also. I am definitely finding a lot more motorists impatient and prepared to overtake when it really is not safe enough to do so, often causing them to cut back across way too early because of oncoming traffic.

Chatting to a friend who said the number of commercial vehicles on Dublin streets is up 53% on this time last year.

galwaycyclist

alias no.9 wrote: »

Would you think it appropriate for someone to get out of a car or any other vehicle at a traffic island? I certainly wouldn't.
Most of the rules of the road are there to make the behaviour of others predictable. All road users are constantly gauging the actions of others in order to make decisions about how they can safely proceed.
The more obvious you can make your intended actions, the safer it is for everyone. Signaling right and moving across a lane approaching a junction reads as a right turn, not as the intention to come to a full stop and dismount. I'm pretty sure if a car had signalled right and either come to a stop to let someone out at that traffic island or indeed to make an illegal right turn, they'd have got the same treatment. It had nothing to do with your bike.

And where specifically does it state in the traffic regulation that you may not pull in on the right?

In fact Ireland is somewhat unusual in permitting motorists to park on the right facing against the normal flow of traffic.

Am I correct in recalling a large volume of cycle parking on the central island in Dublin's O'Connell St?

Someone pulling up in a car at a traffic island might be open to the accusation of blocking other traffic. I fail to see how a dismounting cyclist represents such an obstruction.

galwaycyclist

CramCycle wrote: »

Chatting to a friend who said the number of commercial vehicles on Dublin streets is up 53% on this time last year.

That type of traffic is well identified as a threat to cyclists. Especially if its construction traffic.