Bicycle deaths double

CramCycle

galwaycyclist wrote: »

That type of traffic is well identified as a threat to cyclists. Especially if its construction traffic.

I have observed that the greatest threat to some cyclists regarding this type of traffic is themselves. Common sense regarding road positioning would go along way.

Speaking at the launch, Garda Commissioner Nóirín O’Sullivan said the new drug driving tests will save lives.
Road deaths have increased over the last two years and all of us have a role in saving lives. I would ask all road users to think about how their actions – whether it is speeding or not putting on a seat-belt or not wearing a high-vis jacket – could end in a terrible tragedy.
Christmas and the New Year is a time for family and friends. It should not be a time for dealing with the death of a loved one. Let’s all behave responsibly so everyone can enjoy it.

FFS, even the Garda commisioner can't give sound advice. Hi vis in a city for cyclists works best around the ankle/lower leg area. That's where dims are pointing. Regardless of that, a proper set of lights, which are legally a requirement, would do the job nicely.

eeeee

CramCycle wrote: »

I have observed that the greatest threat to some cyclists regarding this type of traffic is themselves. Common sense regarding road positioning would go along way.

Absolutely. the lack of awareness around HGV's by cyclists is stunning, I see it every single day I am on the bike and see the two together! It's been discussed before but there is a lot of education to be done on the cyclist side about HGV's.

alias no.9

galwaycyclist wrote: »

And where specifically does it state in the traffic regulation that you may not pull in on the right?

In fact Ireland is somewhat unusual in permitting motorists to park on the right facing against the normal flow of traffic.

Am I correct in recalling a large volume of cycle parking on the central island in Dublin's O'Connell St?

Someone pulling up in a car at a traffic island might be open to the accusation of blocking other traffic. I fail to see how a dismounting cyclist represents such an obstruction.

So you see no problem coming to a stop in the middle of the road in moving traffic? Doesn't matter if it's a car or a bike. You move to the right to overtake or turn right, not to come to a stop.

galwaycyclist

alias no.9 wrote: »

So you see no problem coming to a stop in the middle of the road in moving traffic? Doesn't matter if it's a car or a bike. You move to the right to overtake or turn right, not to come to a stop.

You may have arrived in this thread from an alternate universe. In this thread, in this universe, nobody has said anything about stopping in the middle of the road.

That said, in this country, if turning right or pulling in, you may lawfully carry out such a manoeuvre provided you signal in good time and in the prescribed manner.

From my reading of the original post the taxi driver was not obstructed or impeded in any way, he just chose to take offence and to express that in a threatening manner.

Qualitymark

gadetra wrote: »

Absolutely. the lack of awareness around HGV's by cyclists is stunning, I see it every single day I am on the bike and see the two together! It's been discussed before but there is a lot of education to be done on the cyclist side about HGV's.

HGVs don't belong in cities.

galwaycyclist

galwaycyclist wrote: »

That said, in this country, if turning right or pulling in, you may lawfully carry out such a manoeuvre provided you signal in good time and in the prescribed manner.
.

To extend the theme. On my commute there is a long right turn lane leading to a traffic light. Opposite this right-turn lane is a petrol station and shop.

The right-turn lane serves both the traffic lights and for access to property.

If someone is stopped in the lane waiting to turn into the petrol station, and the light is green, the drivers behind are not entitled to have a hissy-fit because they cant get to the lights.

NeedMoreGears

There is, in my view, some tension between what I am perfectly entitled to do as a cyclist and the level of risk involved in doing it.

I'm not often very comfortable making a right turn (the example of the garage above is a good one) where I may have to wait in the middle of a lane/road before executing the turn. I'm never 100% confident a car coming up behind behind will stop. It's ok if I'm in a line of trafific waiting to make the same turn as I believe I have a better chance of being seen.

Generally I tend to wait on the left where possible until the road is clear behind me and on front of me. This isn't always possible/practical, in which case I find myself looking behind me as much as on front.

tomasrojo

It's probably a fair bit of "regression to the mean" after an anomalously good year. Make a click-bait headline out of that though.

Mercian Pro

One aspect of this very sad death that surprised me was the fact that it was the first cycling fatality within the Dublin City area in 2014. Maybe slower driving speeds and the HGV ban are key factors. Anyone know where the other ten fatal accidents occurred?

eeeee

Qualitymark wrote: »

HGVs don't belong in cities.

Yes they very much do. This has been discussed extensively on here before. They are a very necessary part of city life. Unless you want to pay double foe everything you buy within a cry there are supposed to be there. How cyclists interact with them is frequently appalling. You NEVER, ever, ever go up the inside of them, sit out in front of them at lights, or sit right on the back of them. I have seen and see this on a regular basis. The people skipping up by them one foot on the kerb to get in front of them at the lights just kill me every time. If cyclists knew how little a driver can see out of a cab there would me much more consideration given. There's nothing scarier than seeing a cyclist disappear from view from a cab only to emerge again - it happens all the time. It's so unnecessary. Yes not all HGV drivers are good, but they are the biggest, slowest moving vehicles on the road. You cannot miss them. They do an essential job. I think a bit of understanding on each side is really the answer.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Qualitymark wrote: »

Really? When has that happened in Ireland? Last one I remember is a case in Enniskerry when two lads with girlfriends on their crossbars blew out their brakes coming down the hill from Knocknacree and crashed into the monument in the centre. Still remembered in Enniskerry as if it was yesterday, but I'm not sure when it was - 1930s?

I do not mean two cyclists crashing into one another. I mean cyclists killing themselves with idiotic manoeuvres, knowingly making stupid risks and putting themselves in incredibly dangerous situations.

It's not just one factor or one category of road user that contributes to fatalities on the road. Everybody is responsible.

Qualitymark

gadetra wrote: »

Yes they very much do. This has been discussed extensively on here before. They are a very necessary part of city life.

They're already banned in Dublin from 7am to 7pm; the world hasn't fallen:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0218/85889-dublin/

Unknown Soldier

NeedMoreGears wrote: »

There is, in my view, some tension between what I am perfectly entitled to do as a cyclist and the level of risk involved in doing it.

I'm not often very comfortable making a right turn (the example of the garage above is a good one) where I may have to wait in the middle of a lane/road before executing the turn. I'm never 100% confident a car coming up behind behind will stop. It's ok if I'm in a line of trafific waiting to make the same turn as I believe I have a better chance of being seen.

Generally I tend to wait on the left where possible until the road is clear behind me and on front of me. This isn't always possible/practical, in which case I find myself looking behind me as much as on front.

^^^ This.

Brilliantly put.

You have to look out for yourself, regardless.

eeeee

I am aware of that. I am also aware that the city would not function as it is without them. Understanding is key, on both sides. I rarely meet cyclists who understand what it's like driving around town from the inside of a cab. I have mentioned before, the guards had a unit parked up the middle of o connell street last year and invited pedestrians and cyclists up into it to see what it was like. More of that would help the situation massively. HGV's are not the enemy, education about them is. They are also essential, and drivers have to go through several tests to get a license, and do CPC's every couple of years (or less in some cases depending on what they're drawing). We have to share the road, understanding is key on both parts.

porsche959

Qualitymark wrote: »

Oscar-Gateaux, in my own experience some drivers are behaving very dangerously towards cyclists lately; there seems to be a propaganda war going on in which cyclists are the baddies, rather than fellow-road-users that someone driving three tons of metal should be lovely careful of.
One example: I was cycling to Shamrokon, held in a hotel in Burlington Road, where a cyclist was killed a couple of weeks ago. I turned into the road, checked, signalled, and moved right to dismount at the traffic island in the centre and cross to the hotel.
A taxi driver, assuming wrongly that I was signalling to make a right turn the wrong way down a one-way street, abandoned his duty to actually look at the road in front of him, and leaned out the window screaming back at me while swerving and blaring his horn.
Even if I had intended to go down the one-way, this was none of his business. His behaviour was extraordinarily dangerous. And it's not unusual.
I've had drivers drive straight at me, beeping, as I make a legal right turn (while wearing fluorescents and lit up like a Christmas tree). I've had drivers cut into the cycle lane in front of me. I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light while I waited at the pedestrian crossing to wheel my bicycle across.
There's a huge attitude change, and it's dangerous.

In at least one example that you cite, according to your own account, the cyclist concerned was breaking the law and in a particularly dangerous and reckless fashion.

While road rage is never to be condoned, the failure of the authorities to do anything about illegal and reckless behaviour of a large number of cyclists is a factor here and I am not surprised that some motorists, albeit misguidedly, are driven to appoint themselves traffic police as the actual traffic police apparently are seemingly unwilling to bring the rogue cyclists to brook.

Qualitymark

porsche959 wrote: »

In at least one example that you cite, according to your own account, the cyclist concerned was breaking the law and in a particularly dangerous and reckless fashion.

rogue cyclists

Breaking the law how? What law?

porsche959

Qualitymark wrote: »

Breaking the law how? What law?

?

I've had drivers blaring and screaming at another cyclist who went through a red light

ROK ON

I have not noticed an increase in hostility. But whether I am cycling or driving I have noticed the following;
A definite increase in all traffic. Roads in Dublin have been in my judgement 'very busy' since the early summer. All sorts of traffic including bikes.
A definite increase in HGVs in town - on a daily basis I witness the five and six axel HGVs in breach of the ban. These are not Guinness trucks. The ban no loner matters - it's not enforced and HGVs drivers know this. They would rather gridlock at 8am than the port tunnel.
Motorway traffic is busier in my view.
Road behaviour is deteriorating. The penalty points for mobile phones does not seem to be an adequate deterrent. Pootling up the quays I regularly count the number of drivers on phones - usually 20+ over 2km.
A few months back while driving down the country a woman driving behind me in the M7 was on her phone from the toll booth at Mountrath till the outskirts of Nenagh.
Insurance statistics are pointing to an increase in accidents (down to increased traffic) but there are early indications of increased frequency.
The road network is beyond saturation at this point. Ironically while car traffic is up, the odd morning I get the bus there is always a seat available - in 2007 there was no chance - buses were jam packed. My view on this is that the increase in public transport prices is having a definite impact on usage. It is cheaper to drive into Dublin and park for free than get the bus or train. I have driven from Kerry to Dublin more frequently this year because the price of the train is up by 65% in two years.

All of this is contributing to more traffic and unfortunately more cyclist injuries and fatalities.

eeeee

ROK ON wrote: »

I have not noticed an increase in hostility. But whether I am cycling or driving I have noticed the following;
A definite increase in all traffic. Roads in Dublin have been in my judgement 'very busy' since the early summer. All sorts of traffic including bikes.
A definite increase in HGVs in town - on a daily basis I witness the five and six axel HGVs in breach of the ban. These are not Guinness trucks. The ban no loner matters - it's not enforced and HGVs drivers know this. They would rather gridlock at 8am than the port tunnel.
Motorway traffic is busier in my view.
Road behaviour is deteriorating. The penalty points for mobile phones does not seem to be an adequate deterrent. Pootling up the quays I regularly count the number of drivers on phones - usually 20+ over 2km.
A few months back while driving down the country a woman driving behind me in the M7 was on her phone from the toll booth at Mountrath till the outskirts of Nenagh.
Insurance statistics are pointing to an increase in accidents (down to increased traffic) but there are early indications of increased frequency.
The road network is beyond saturation at this point. Ironically while car traffic is up, the odd morning I get the bus there is always a seat available - in 2007 there was no chance - buses were jam packed. My view on this is that the increase in public transport prices is having a definite impact on usage. It is cheaper to drive into Dublin and park for free than get the bus or train. I have driven from Kerry to Dublin more frequently this year because the price of the train is up by 65% in two years.

All of this is contributing to more traffic and unfortunately more cyclist injuries and fatalities.

Have to disagree with that bit. I've been stuck getting buses for 3 months now and they're as busy as they ever were. But an awful lot more expensive. Rest if your post is spot on.

Qualitymark

Oh, yes, the cyclist going through the red light, Porsche959, you're right there; he was breaking the law.
But have you noticed that drivers too are breaking red lights, something that would have been inconceivable a few years ago?
I only *really* noticed this on a recent visit to London. Every time we'd come to a zebra crossing or a green light, I'd hesitate before crossing and check to see that nothing was coming, until my London-dwelling friends asked in a puzzled tone why I was doing this. "The light's red! The cars will stop!" they said. There was absolutely no possibility in their minds that they were anything other than absolutely safe if they stepped out onto a zebra crossing or to cross at a green light; there was no possibility that a car would not stop for the red light or the zebra crossing. As a Dubliner, I no longer had this assumption, which I would have had a few years ago.

tomasrojo

Qualitymark wrote: »

But have you noticed that drivers too are breaking red lights, something that would have been inconceivable a few years ago?

My personal observation is that there has been an informal feeling for years that the first two or so cars can go through a red light, so long as it hasn't been red for long.

Even worse are junctions with left filters: the left-turning motorists look at the straight-on green and turn left, through the green-man phase of the adjacent pedestrian crossing. This is mostly carelessness or being a bit dim, I think, but it's still light-breaking, and has been going on for years and years.

I'd believe that the recent increased economic activity might have made the road environment more dangerous for cyclists, but, really, 2013 was exceptionally low for fatalities, and some subsequent increase in fatalities would not be unexpected by a statistician. It's a different world for an RSA or Garda representative, since their bodies have probably already claimed responsibility for the good figures of the previous year, along the lines of "our message is finally getting through".

Carawaystick

The HSA decided a few years back that a one man operated garage with a pirelli calendar was an unsafe work place. Topless women would make it unsafe for him to work on stationary vehicles.

The HSA has nothing to say about truckers driving trucks while being unable to see what's in front of them, or beside them.
Situations where people could be killed by a moving truck.
Very few pedestrians or cyclists are killed by collisions with stationary trucks

cdaly_

tomasrojo wrote: »

My personal observation is that there has been an informal feeling for years that the first two or so cars can go through a red light, so long as it hasn't been red for long.

But now it's got to the stage where the first 4 or 5 cars feel entitled to go through the red light, even to the point where car 4 will swerve around car 3 (which has stopped) to use that entitlement...

CramCycle

cdaly_ wrote: »

But now it's got to the stage where the first 4 or 5 cars feel entitled to go through the red light, even to the point where car 4 will swerve around car 3 (which has stopped) to use that entitlement...

I have seen drivers lambast other drivers for stopping on red, full on road rage for stopping on a red. A few years ago I even had a van drover get out as he thought I had stopped on Red to pass him off.

Unknown Soldier

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

^^^ This.

Brilliantly put.

You have to look out for yourself, regardless.

To expand... this is from yesterday, Friday 28th Nov.

I'd be pretty fuked now If I went by the ped lights/my "rights".

I need either no cars approaching or one to stop, before I cross.

Not a great video but watch the lights.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHVjGAN7l6o

beauf

ROK ON wrote: »

I have not noticed an increase in hostility. But whether I am cycling or driving I have noticed the following;...

+1 on all that.

I'm lucky that I've been able to stop using the car for commuting. Its amazing how less tired and stressed I am.

a148pro

galwaycyclist wrote: »

You may have arrived in this thread from an alternate universe. In this thread, in this universe, nobody has said anything about stopping in the middle of the road.

That said, in this country, if turning right or pulling in, you may lawfully carry out such a manoeuvre provided you signal in good time and in the prescribed manner.

From my reading of the original post the taxi driver was not obstructed or impeded in any way, he just chose to take offence and to express that in a threatening manner.

From my reading of the post the cyclist moved to the right side of the lane and stopped, dismounted in order to cross the opposite lane where traffic was moving in the opposite direction.

The point is that no reasonable motorist would expect this to happen. Unless there was a junction there (and it appears there wasn't because it was one way) then no-one could expect someone to stop at that part of the lane, i.e the right side of the lane. Vehicles stop on the left side of lanes.

Doing something unexpected is dangerous. If a car had done this and I was driving (or cycling) behind it I'd be annoyed.

If a cyclist does this its just stupid because you're exposing yourself to risk.

Maybe I'm misreading the description or misunderstanding it unfairly on the poster.

I think a lot of cyclists, and I see this both on the road and on posts on this forum, confuse their own perception about what they feel their interpretation of the rules of the road 'absolutely' entitles them to do and what, in the long run, is a safe way in which to cycle. Your focus in commuting in Dublin should not be entitlement. It should be safety.

In this situation I would only do what the poster did if I knew there was no traffic behind me and there was enough space on the island or median to allow me to do it. Even then I'd think it was a bad idea as I might misperceive something behind me or something unanticipated might happen to make it unsafe. As a rule of thumb I pull in on the left, dismount and cross both lanes. I haven't looked at the ROTR to decide if I ought to be entitled to do it differently, because frankly that's irrelevant to the question of whether I can do it safely or whether the motorist behind me will either think I will do it or will be entitled to do it.

beauf

The Dublin quays must freak you out 3 lanes with on street parking on the left and right in places. As a cyclist you'd have to cross three lanes to get back to left curb. That said I think its odd to stop in the right lane. But likewise people stopping is a normal activity even centre lane. Are we not meant to anticipate this and keep appropriate distance and speed.

rollingscone

Just like in a car you indicate right and turn for your exit/uturn.

It's a manoeuvre carried out safely by cyclists and motorists thousands of times per day. Getting off the bike on the other hand is just weird.

However it highlights a decreased acceptance ofone of the key tenets of driver behaviour as per the RTA/ROTR: that the onus is on you to ensure you can proceed safely and react in time to events that occur ahead of you.

There seem to be elevated senses of entitlement all round these days, I don't see a huge amount of RLJing by cars since the traffic lights are the type that go flashing orange for traffic/flashing green man therefore stating you can proceed as long as it's safe to do so/ there are no pedestrians on the road...which is strange because that's also exactly what no lights means.

Undertaking without slowing down or checking the mirrors is a much more common expression of impatience and reckless disregard for the safety of others along my commute along with pointless kerb hugging by motorists and a general lack of driving ability.

I try to remind myself that the person who suffers most is the fool who's trapped themselves in their obesity box but then people will do something like angrily beeping and close passing on a road choked with cars so I can pass them again at the picnic spot they were in such a life or death hurry to.

Cyclist behaviour has also deteriorated however and it's only a matter of time before there's a bad pileup on the canal cycle track or someone gets thrown under a truck by a shoving undertaking RLJ.

Velotogo

CramCycle wrote: »

FFS, even the Garda commisioner can't give sound advice. Hi vis in a city for cyclists works best around the ankle/lower leg area. That's where dims are pointing. Regardless of that, a proper set of lights, which are legally a requirement, would do the job nicely.

Have to say that after a year of commuting on the bike and now being back in the car due to a knee injury, I find proper high-viz jackets and backpack covers very helpful in alerting me that a cyclist is ahead and eye-catching when checking your wing mirrors - in low-light to daylight conditions. A proper set of lights - as you've metioned - coupled with plenty of reflective flocking is what you need in darkness.