Depreciation

Simonigs1.0

Are people actually bothered by this?

A conversation with a couple of work colleagues sparked my interest. We were talking about my RCZ and impending collection of a GT86. When I had told them what I paid for both, they were a bit taken back and pointed out that, given that both had petrol engines, they would be "worth sod all in 5 years time".

I don't know what else to say, but that conversation has just really made me realise how much I really don't care about depreciation. I'm just wondering what people's thoughts on depreciation are, and whether or not it would play a part in the purchase of a car for you.

tossy

It's never entered my head once when buying a car.

Sobanek

It's one of the reasons I haven't bought a new Fabia RS. Still waiting for these to go down in price.

Special Circumstances

Never really been affected by it tbh, grand a year max for me. I think in both of your cases the serious depreciation has been suffered by someone else and from here on they will suffer less depreciation than average. They are "buy withh your heart, not with your head" cars which, when supply is limited, will hold value longer. IMO anyway, im thinking along the lines of minis cooper, audi tt, fiat 500 for the rcz. And the gt86? Well its a lightweight rwd toyota with a boxer engine, sold in small volumes - after a certain amount of time that will start rising in value again! Try that with 06 passat...

colm_mcm

I've only bought one brand new car, and not too pushed on doing it again
Depreciation is good.

anthony4335

If you think along those lines you will buy a car that may very well suck to soul out of you, not make you want to sell it to pay for the the petrol. If you are happy to take the hit and enjoy your purchases then never think of it as lost money but value for money due to the enjoyment. Why do people always think money on cars is wasted. If that is what you like, can afford it then party on . (sat in a GT86 while my Prius was in for a recall, almost worth the back pain)

coylemj

It's a big factor when leasing as the main differentiators between quotes for two different models will relate to the cost of financing the amount by which the car will depreciate. That means that sports cars and oddball makes will cost a lot more to lease than mainstream models with good resale values.

When buying a new car privately, depreciation is definitely something you need to take into account, unless you intend to hold the car for five years or more. For example in 98 I bought a new Fiat Bravo 3-door which was considerably cheaper than the equivalent Toyota or VW but I kept it for five years, it never gave me any bother, was fun to drive and had bags of room inside so all in all it was a good buy because after five years the higher depreciation was less of an issue and was more than offset by the lower purchase price.

lomb

Depends how rich you are, how much you want a particular car, If it has to be new and whether you care about large losses( most rich people are rich because they don't waste money, so lots of self made millionaires driving old cars) Just take a drive around the swanky roads in Ballsbridge , some of the crap cars outside houses worth millions..
Lots of very nice old cars out there why buy new I say, is say a 2002 911 going to be a poorer car than a new RCZ or GT86? I doubt it personally. Some people turn their noses up at used cars but frankly if you see what old 'classics' go for then...
For me something like an s600, CL600, Daimler double six, 911 , SL500/600, from the noughties is going to be peanuts with no loss on resale. Just adds to the fun I suppose.

coylemj

lomb wrote: »

Just take a drive around the swanky roads in Ballsbridge , some of the crap cars outside houses worth millions..

I think you'll find that's because they paid stupid prices for those houses during the boom and now can't afford to upgrade their cars because of crippling repayments on the mortgage.

There's also the odd elderly resident who is asset rich and cash poor, they have always been around but most houses in D4 have very nice cars parked outside.

Bpmull

Even buying a demo or one a year or two old you often get a lot of the new price. Now I suppose that doesn't suit everyone as they won't have a 151 plate but then them people don't think about depreciation I suppose. I do know a few people who buy expensive cars brand new and then keep them 10 years to minimise depreciation but life's a bit too short to do that specially if your into cars. I'm sure I'll end up buying at least one new car in my life and then probably regret it but it's one of them things you have to do once.

Simonigs1.0

Bpmull wrote: »

Even buying a demo or one a year or two old you often get a lot of the new price. Now I suppose that doesn't suit everyone as they won't have a 151 plate but then them people don't think about depreciation I suppose. I do know a few people who buy expensive cars brand new and then keep them 10 years to minimise depreciation but life's a bit too short to do that specially if your into cars. I'm sure I'll end up buying at least one new car in my life and then probably regret it but it's one of them things you have to do once.

This is what I'm trying to say, if you're buying a new car privately - stop worrying about it depreciating, enjoy the thing. If you're going to change it in a few years then clearly money isn't an issue, if you intend to keep it for 10 years or so, depreciation has to be the last thing on your mind surely.

I would have liked to buy a new GT86. TRD models are £40k new so thanks to depreciation I got mine for half the new price at two years old.

Simonigs1.0

Simonigs1.0 wrote: »

----they would be "worth sod all in 5 years time".

I don't know what else to say, but that conversation has just really made me realise how much I really don't care about depreciation. I'm just wondering what people's thoughts on depreciation are, and whether or not it would play a part in the purchase of a car for you.

Simonigs1.0 wrote: »

---

I would have liked to buy a new GT86. TRD models are £40k new so thanks to depreciation I got mine for half the new price at two years old.

Your colleagues are talking poo regarding your GT86, at say €30K landed (I have no idea what your all in on Irish plate cost is but around that I imagine), if in 5 years time it's sellable for €10k that €20K over 5 years, not at all bad really.

I was in a VW main dealer today and there was a decently tidy 09 A4 120bhp TDi with a screen price of €17K, from new someone potentially (I don't know if it was a one owner car) experienced perhaps €25K depreciation on that over 5 years

I think in your position it's easy enough to say you don't care about depreciation, if you had a new £40K GT86 you might think differently

Personally I don't spend huge money on cars, I have experienced hefty enough depreciation (petrol e60 BMW bought in boom times and sold 2 years ago) and in hindsight it's not pleasant. As I was able to afford the car when I bought it I wasn't bothered but as I didn't repeat the practise again that says alot. My last purchase was a modest diesel saloon (Used Lancer).

MuppetCheck

tossy wrote: »

It's never entered my head once when buying a car.

Same here. I've made mistakes and lost money but for the most part I write the money off once it's spent.

quadrifoglio verde

I like to buy an older car, throw a few quid at it to make it mechanically sound and go from there. Much more fun that a Dacia Sandero
Buying a new car for me has too big an opportunity cost. There's just so many cars on my wants list from 80s and early 90s that I couldn't justify buying a new car. That and there's very few cars out there at the moment that I'd actually like to own.
That may change in June 2015 though.....hopefully :pac:

porsche959

Simonigs1.0 wrote: »

Are people actually bothered by this?

A conversation with a couple of work colleagues sparked my interest. We were talking about my RCZ and impending collection of a GT86. When I had told them what I paid for both, they were a bit taken back and pointed out that, given that both had petrol engines, they would be "worth sod all in 5 years time".

I don't know what else to say, but that conversation has just really made me realise how much I really don't care about depreciation. I'm just wondering what people's thoughts on depreciation are, and whether or not it would play a part in the purchase of a car for you.

We have had similar threads on here before. These Nostradamus-like geniuses who can predict 5 years into the future with great confidence usually turn out to be wrong. If anything I'd say the daysul bubble has peaked and people are starting to wake up to the reality that a badly maintained daysul can be big trouble. I'd like to see the depreciation on the likes of a Porsche Cayenne diesel (yes, such things exist) or do they think they're precious daysuls are immune?

Personally I have never bought a new car, probably never will, depreciation is a factor for me, but if you are one of the small % of new car buyers out there who forks out for something interesting like a GT86 this is something I applaud.

Senecio

Simonigs1.0 wrote: »

I would have liked to buy a new GT86. TRD models are £40k new so thanks to depreciation I got mine for half the new price at two years old.

This statement tells me you do care about depreciation?

In reality we all care about depreciation, some of us just choose to prioritise other needs/wants over it.

Simonigs1.0

Senecio wrote: »

This statement tells me you do care about depreciation?

In reality we all care about depreciation, some of us just choose to prioritise other needs/wants over it.

No, I meant I can't afford to spend £40k/€55k on a new car this year. I've bought a second hand one now, two years old for just about half that.

Senecio

Senecio wrote: »

This statement tells me you do care about depreciation?----.

Simonigs1.0 wrote: »

No---.

So when the time comes to change cars and you're told the GT86 is worth nothing you won't care?

Simonigs1.0

Augeo wrote: »

So when the time comes to change cars and you're told the GT86 is worth nothing you won't care?

Yeah, basically. I really won't care - I'll be keeping it for min. 5 years anyway, I'll enjoy it, and get back what I can. I can so I will, basically.

colm_mcm

I can't see a 6/7/8 year old gt86 ever being small money

edburg

Simonigs1.0 wrote: »

Are people actually bothered by this?

A conversation with a couple of work colleagues sparked my interest. We were talking about my RCZ and impending collection of a GT86. When I had told them what I paid for both, they were a bit taken back and pointed out that, given that both had petrol engines, they would be "worth sod all in 5 years time".

I don't know what else to say, but that conversation has just really made me realise how much I really don't care about depreciation. I'm just wondering what people's thoughts on depreciation are, and whether or not it would play a part in the purchase of a car for you.

Your better off not thinking about. I personally dont think about it as dont have plans to sell unless I have no choice, if I did think about I'd only get sore about it all.

The way things are currently (anti big petrol tax etc) I'd sell mine in UK where currently my car would worth a lot more than here.


Unless its a real classic and uber rare a car will only ever lose money IMO.

scamalert

the way ireland is going,moment car is sold it loses 2k straight away,dont need even 5 years now,example all insignias on the road new ones cost around 23-25k mark with feck all extras not even rear electric windows,now same model can be bought for 10+k with proper uk specs.And theres plenty of examples on luxobrage thread where 100-50k cars after less then 10y are going for around 5-10% at most, of original price.

Now OP is going for gt86 who isn't billly joe who wants 151 plates car with 1.4l engine to show off that he can buy some junk.So if money isnt an issue and you plan to keep it for years to come,yes you will lose money but given model and how well you will maintain it,it might break even when you decide to sell it eventually.

As someone said rich stay rich because they bought something decent years ago and maintained it,and if its running and has no issues whats the point in chasing newer shape.

It all comes down to reason, when buying certain cars-if its for number plates-those people are most likely to spend as little as possible and will lose a lot in future,if its a car that someone really wanted for years and can afford its different story,and if one aims for power over luxury for couple k nowadays you can buy 200bhp for almost nothing.

Zubeneschamali

MuppetCheck wrote: »

I write the money off once it's spent.

Only way to go. I'm sorry now that I listened to a salesman in 2008 and bought a grey car, because Kelp Green (the only non-boring colour on offer) would depreciate more. Since I've put 260,000 km on it since, the colour is the least of its depreciation issues.

Salesman started this spiel on me recently, ordering a Mini Cooper. He wanted me to get the diesel, because in 2 years time etc. etc.

He shut up after I gave him The Look.

manageit

What about this for depreciation.

Peugeot 508 151 Cost €31k Top spec Allure low mileage. Trade in offer last week €18k.

Last Peugeot I will buy.

WacoKid

porsche959 wrote: »

We have had similar threads on here before. These Nostradamus-like geniuses who can predict 5 years into the future with great confidence usually turn out to be wrong. If anything I'd say the daysul bubble has peaked and people are starting to wake up to the reality that a badly maintained daysul can be big trouble. I'd like to see the depreciation on the likes of a Porsche Cayenne diesel (yes, such things exist) or do they think they're precious daysuls are immune?

Personally I have never bought a new car, probably never will, depreciation is a factor for me, but if you are one of the small % of new car buyers out there who forks out for something interesting like a GT86 this is something I applaud.

Agreed here. In a few years a good petrol car may have actually appreciated in value when people cop on about daysul. People spending over 30k on a car with both eyes on the cost of the motor tax is beyond me.

SBPhoto

WacoKid wrote: »

Agreed here. In a few years a good petrol car may have actually appreciated in value when people cop on about daysul. People spending over 30k on a car with both eyes on the cost of the motor tax is beyond me.

The cost of Motor Tax now between Diesel and Petrol is very little on newer cars, I don't think motor tax has any bearing on costs now when buying new.

coylemj

manageit wrote: »

What about this for depreciation.

Peugeot 508 151 Cost €31k Top spec Allure low mileage. Trade in offer last week €18k.

Last Peugeot I will buy.

You probably expected the money you paid for the 'top spec' to be reflected in the trade-in value, it very seldom is. In fact when a leasing company is crunching the numbers for a company car quote, they depreciate all of the extras to zero during the period of the lease i.e. they assume zero residual value for the factory-fitted goodies.

The rule on extras is that it will help to sell the car faster but will rarely get you a higher price from the buyer.

Senecio

manageit wrote: »

What about this for depreciation.

Peugeot 508 151 Cost €31k Top spec Allure low mileage. Trade in offer last week €18k.

Last Peugeot I will buy.

Near enough to 40% over two years sounds about right to me. Most makes/models wouldn't be far off that.

Also the 508 is not exactly a popular car. Not much of a market for it.

Idbatterim

Depreciation
Are people actually bothered by this?

dont think so, I think the only cost to motoring to the vast motoring public here is motor tax... christ for the cost of the depreciation, Id want to be driving far better than the muck mentioned...

Comhrá

WacoKid wrote: »

Agreed here. In a few years a good petrol car may have actually appreciated in value when people cop on about daysul. People spending over 30k on a car with both eyes on the cost of the motor tax is beyond me.

When I bought my 161 Audi A4 with a petrol engine, people were telling me I was foolish in so far as I'd find it very hard to trade in after a few years, but I'm feeling more confident of petrol car residuals as time passes - in fact after two or three years I wouldn't be surprised if there's a fairly healthy demand for used petrol motors again.

stimpson

manageit wrote: »

What about this for depreciation.

Peugeot 508 151 Cost €31k Top spec Allure low mileage. Trade in offer last week €18k.

Last Peugeot I will buy.

I bought a mid Spec Toyota Verso in 2011 for €31K. Trade in last year with 70k km on the clock was €18.5K. Say what you like about the build quality and the recalls, but they still hold their value very well.

bmwguy

Have a read of some of the bmw threads about depreciation recently, especially on newish ones. Would make your eyes water. But a lot of it is people wanting to switch into new ones from a model a year or 2 old, which was always an expensive thing to do. But BMW dealers seem to be taking the mick completely this year.

Especially prevalent with people looking to move from f10 to new g30 5 series.

But I think depreciation is great, I can buy any car I want once it's gotten a bit older for peanuts. Looking at a 7 series, a8 or s class for my next car, horrendous depreciation on them but the people that bought them knew that.

WacoKid

SBPhoto wrote: »

The cost of Motor Tax now between Diesel and Petrol is very little on newer cars, I don't think motor tax has any bearing on costs now when buying new.

My point here is that 4 pot 1.6 diesels are being bought because of the tax. The idea of a nice smooth refined 6 pot petrol are long gone from the thinking of most irish folk.

Basically paying 30k and selecting a poxy engine.

WacoKid

bmwguy wrote: »

Have a read of some of the bmw threads about depreciation recently, especially on newish ones. Would make your eyes water. But a lot of it is people wanting to switch into new ones from a model a year or 2 old, which was always an expensive thing to do. But BMW dealers seem to be taking the mick completely this year.

Especially prevalent with people looking to move from f10 to new g30 5 series.

But I think depreciation is great, I can buy any car I want once it's gotten a bit older for peanuts. Looking at a 7 series, a8 or s class for my next car, horrendous depreciation on them but the people that bought them knew that.

A lot of people shop inthe luxo barge market. 2nd hand premium cars (a8, s class etc.) That were 100k new but can be bought for 20k now. Cthe running costs are high but for diesels people are paying top dollar on the forecourt.

Pay on the forecourt or pay at the pump. I choose the latter and am more than happy.

Also new G30 5 series. In ireland we are been charged 70k for the 520d entry level engine...and we'll pay it cause sure the motor tax is cheap!

colm_mcm

520d SE Auto is €51,950. Don't know where you're getting €70k from.

WacoKid

colm_mcm wrote: »

520d SE Auto is €51,950. Don't know where you're getting €70k from.

Carzone.ie. for a model with basic spec upgrades.

elperello

manageit wrote: »

What about this for depreciation.

Peugeot 508 151 Cost €31k Top spec Allure low mileage. Trade in offer last week €18k.

Last Peugeot I will buy.

What was the offer against?
Did you try a Peugeot dealer?

colm_mcm

WacoKid wrote: »

Carzone.ie. for a model with basic spec upgrades.

Riiight. Metallic paint and mud flaps kinda stuff.

SE €51950
M Sport €56980
M Sport with AWD €60,629.

Don't know what basic upgrades you were going for to bring it up to €70k

Whatever about it being a 2.0 car, but to be fair to it, it'll do 100kmph in 7.5 which is good for a biggish automatic 2.0 diesel car.

carsfan2

colm_mcm wrote: »

Riiight. Metallic paint and mud flaps kinda stuff.

SE €51950
M Sport €56980
M Sport with AWD €60,629.

Don't know what basic upgrades you were going for to bring it up to €70k

Whatever about it being a 2.0 car, but to be fair to it, it'll do 100kmph in 7.5 which is good for a biggish automatic 2.0 diesel car.

The first cars the dealers have brought in are loaded with kit and they are 70k!
Mad money but it's not hard to put extras on a bimmer that ups the price considerably and you won't get any of it back.

coylemj

bmwguy wrote: »

Have a read of some of the bmw threads about depreciation recently, especially on newish ones. Would make your eyes water. But a lot of it is people wanting to switch into new ones from a model a year or 2 old, which was always an expensive thing to do. But BMW dealers seem to be taking the mick completely this year.

The drop in value of 2015 and 2016 models has more to do with the sudden influx of secondhand UK cars (because of the drop in sterling caused by Breixit) than with local dealers 'taking the mick'.

Mercedes even dropped their list prices by 10% across the board, you'd certainly have sympathy for anyone who bought a new 161 model here but it's not the local dealers' fault that the value has plummeted.

manor

Values have not plummeted, just overpriced from the start.

manageit

Peugeot Trade In Depreciation against another Peugeot in a Peugeot dealership. 2.0l diesel leather seats, sat nav, reversing camera, heated seats etc.

bazz26

coylemj wrote: »

The drop in value of 2015 and 2016 models has more to do with the sudden influx of secondhand UK cars (because of the drop in sterling caused by Breixit) than with local dealers 'taking the mick'.

Mercedes even dropped their list prices by 10% across the board, you'd certainly have sympathy for anyone who bought a new 161 model here but it's not the local dealers' fault that the value has plummeted.

Dealers want their bread buttered on both sides. They offer poor trade-in values spouting about Brexit, etc but then they retail the same cars at asking prices on their forecourts that don't reflect Brexit. They cannot have it both ways.

manageit

elperello wrote: »

What was the offer against?
Did you try a Peugeot dealer?

It was against a new 3008 in a Peugeot dealership.

The 3008 is seriously overpriced against the opposition. Sales will be disappointing.

My car is 2.0L leather heated seats, sat nav, reversing camera, push button start etc., car tax €200.

I reckon that if I traded at that price the garage would make about €7-8 k on selling me the new car and selling my trade in.

I don't mind holding on to it now for a few years.