Why do people still eat dairy?

laoch na mona

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Came across this thread & find it interesting all right. I'm lactose intolerant which developed in adult hood. Drank milk (& lots of it) during my childhood. Yes going off dairy really did help my sinus problems (there is a known link there) and also my IBS but the latter was mainly down to the fact that my intolerance was having a knock on effect on my IBS as opposed to it "curing" it. I still have it & it flairs.

I don't have any issue with milk or dairy products well apart from the smell but that's just since my intolerance fully kicked in. Like others have said, we have evolved in this part of the world over hundreds of years to be able to properly digest milk....well most of us. In fact there's probably more gluten-intolerances than dairy because we're still evolving to cope with the amount of carbs now in our diets. If you look back over the last century, the diet was not made up of mostly carbs but of veg & protein. And by carbs I mean more bread, pasta, rice etc as opposed to potatoes (which the Irish obviously have evolved to eat loads of :P)

we were described as the sturdiest peasants in Europe, that's what 8kg of spuds a day washed down with milk will do to you, make you nice and sturdy.
I remember a history lecturer going over this with us it was from the mid 1700s potatoes took off in a big way (population growth, a good land clearing crop, a food which would not be used for animal feed so it was more profitable to get your labours to eat it than say oats, were the main reasons), so it's unlikely evolutionary as we have only ate potatoes for a few hundred years. still though it's weird how one crop was key to so much of our (modern) history

witchgirl26

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Came across this thread & find it interesting all right. I'm lactose intolerant which developed in adult hood. Drank milk (& lots of it) during my childhood. Yes going off dairy really did help my sinus problems (there is a known link there)

Yeah there certainly is

Ave Sodalis

witchgirl26 wrote: »

Came across this thread & find it interesting all right. I'm lactose intolerant which developed in adult hood. Drank milk (& lots of it) during my childhood. Yes going off dairy really did help my sinus problems (there is a known link there)

In fairness, when my sinus flares up, I've to go off milk too. It just makes your body produce lots of mucus and clogs you up until it ends up infected.

mickman

sup_dude wrote: »

In fairness, when my sinus flares up, I've to go off milk too. It just makes your body produce lots of mucus and clogs you up until it ends up infected.

never happened me in my 34 years of eating it

Kevo

FluffTheDog wrote: »

Question for you, do you honestly not believe that dairy is made by female cows for their calves, in the same way that women make milk for their human babies?

I understand your logic that milk evolved for consumption by a calf may not be suitable for humans but this is just a hypothesis. You actually need to show that consuming milk has negative effects on the human body to prove this. So really you need to look to scientific literature and, as with many aspects of diet, the conclusions are not as black and white as you would like to believe. While there are some studies that show some negative effects there are also studies that show positives.

Ave Sodalis

mickman wrote: »

never happened me in my 34 years of eating it

I have sinus problems already though, milk just aggreviates it worse whenever those problems flare up.

Kintarō Hattori

It's..................... delicious.

Dortilolma

Just throwing in my (broad) 2 cents ...

Some people have a bad reaction to dairy, but for those who don't it is a decent source of certain nutrients and is tasty.

Some people have a bad reaction to nuts, but for those who don't they are a decent source of certain nutrients and are tasty.

loveisdivine

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

I'm really not interested in ethics / morals / religion dictating what you eat.

If there's real science supporting a vegan approach as the best approach I've yet to see it. What I've seen a veritable load of however is anecdotal 'I went vegan and it cured all my diseases' type nonsense.

Show me this great army of elite vegan athletes. I like to try and achieve moderate feats of physical strength. Would be very difficult (or impossible) if I was vegan imo.

Had to step in here to address the last bit of your post. Claiming it would be near impossible to achieve moderate feats of strength on a vegan diet is entirely false. Theres nothing "moderate" about any of the people below. Particularly Frank Medrano.

Vegan bodybuilders - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders
Frank Medrano, Vegan, calisthenics enthusiast who is incredibly strong - http://www.thefrankmedrano.com/
Vegan athletes of all kinds - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/
Vegan UFC fighter - http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Mac-Danzig
Theres even a vegan Professional arm wrestler http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/professional-vegan-arm-wrestler-proves-plant-based-diet-can-equal-strength/

Question veganism however you want, but don't claim that we can't be as strong as meat and dairy eaters because its outright nonsense.

laoch na mona

laoch na mona wrote: »

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2013/09/08/vegan_strongman_shoulders_550_kg_a_record_perhaps_at_vegetarian_food_fest.html

it's doable but I doubt it's the easiest way.

loveisdivine wrote: »

Had to step in here to address the last bit of your post. Claiming it would be near impossible to achieve moderate feats of strength on a vegan diet is entirely false. Theres nothing "moderate" about any of the people below. Particularly Frank Medrano.

Vegan bodybuilders - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders
Frank Medrano, Vegan, calisthenics enthusiast who is incredibly strong - http://www.thefrankmedrano.com/
Vegan athletes of all kinds - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/
Vegan UFC fighter - http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Mac-Danzig
Theres even a vegan Professional arm wrestler http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/professional-vegan-arm-wrestler-proves-plant-based-diet-can-equal-strength/

Question veganism however you want, but don't claim that we can't be as strong as meat and dairy eaters because its outright nonsense.

I already pointed that out

loveisdivine

Yes and I was giving more examples.

LuckyLloyd

loveisdivine wrote: »

Had to step in here to address the last bit of your post. Claiming it would be near impossible to achieve moderate feats of strength on a vegan diet is entirely false. Theres nothing "moderate" about any of the people below. Particularly Frank Medrano.

Vegan bodybuilders - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/bodybuilders
Frank Medrano, Vegan, calisthenics enthusiast who is incredibly strong - http://www.thefrankmedrano.com/
Vegan athletes of all kinds - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/
Vegan UFC fighter - http://www.ufc.com/fighter/Mac-Danzig
Theres even a vegan Professional arm wrestler http://www.onegreenplanet.org/news/professional-vegan-arm-wrestler-proves-plant-based-diet-can-equal-strength/

Question veganism however you want, but don't claim that we can't be as strong as meat and dairy eaters because its outright nonsense.

Front page of 'greatveganathletes.com': "Many of the World's greatest sports people are now Vegan". Huh? I'm willing to bet there are zero NFL players following a Vegan diet.

You've demonstrated exceptions that prove the rule essentially.

PinkLemonade

I don't really understand the point of this thread, has anyone given any real reason why we shouldn't have dairy?

btkm8unsl0w5r4

Human milk is no better, my 6 month old daughter drinks a lot of milk, practically nothing else infact. She has put on considerable weight in the last months, and the rolls of fat are getting alarming. Also she is unable to control her bowels often evacuating into her nappy, and these smell foul. According to the radio this is often a sign of "toxins" due to food intolerance. The process of harvesting the milk is also inhumane.

generic2012

Noelle Quaint Cheek wrote: »

Human milk is no better, my 6 month old daughter drinks a lot of milk, practically nothing else infact. She has put on considerable weight in the last months, and the rolls of fat are getting alarming. Also she is unable to control her bowels often evacuating into her nappy, and these smell foul. According to the radio this is often a sign of "toxins" due to food intolerance. The process of harvesting the milk is also inhumane.

You should read an over-priced book, apparently it's the only cure for these things. Also a high carb/low carb/high fat/low fat diet will help, and DO NOT use moderation or common sense. Remember that everyone is out to kill you as well.

endacl

PinkLemonade wrote: »

I don't really understand the point of this thread, has anyone given any real reason why we shouldn't have dairy?

OP says so. That's why.

ch750536

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Front page of 'greatveganathletes.com': "Many of the World's greatest sports people are now Vegan". Huh? I'm willing to bet there are zero NFL players following a Vegan diet.

You've demonstrated exceptions that prove the rule essentially.

Linky

ch750536

PinkLemonade wrote: »

I don't really understand the point of this thread

Cleary not. The OP

I've just wondering why people do this in this day and age. Lots of people getting into health and starting to think about what they put in their bodies, yet grown adults are still drinking milk that comes from another mammal. Do people really think that it's normal to do so? Or more so, do they think it's healthy? Or worse.. necessary?!

Quite a clear question, the OP is wondering why people drink milk. Assuming you do, why do you drink it & have you ever thought about milk in this way.

PinkLemonade wrote: »

has anyone given any real reason why we shouldn't have dairy?

Nobody asked for reasons not to drink it, perhaps motivations are better. Example: Many people believe milk is a healthy option. Compared to what? What does milk give you that you can't readily get elsewhere?

Think about the post, come to your own thoughts and conclusions and then join in. I find it interesting as more people on the planet don't drink milk (other than as an ingredient) than do - appreciate this is changing due to western influences though.

As mentioned before, bugs are good for you, readily available. Why not eat bugs?

El_Dangeroso

For the record I'd totally eat bugs if they could mash them up with something so the texture was nice and they tasted good. I think we're gonna see a lot more developments in food technology that allow just this in the future.

Prawns are a lot like insects and they are lovely tasting. It's just all down to what you are culturally used to.

No there's nothing in milk that can't be got elsewhere with a bit of effort, but why should I go to the effort when milk is:

1. Tasty
2. Easily available and very sustainably farmed in this country
3. Nutritious

I would survive no problem if I couldn't drink milk. But I don't have to avoid it so I don't.

menoscemo

loveisdivine wrote: »

Vegan athletes of all kinds - http://www.greatveganathletes.com/

Yes, these web pages often quote Carl Lewis, they fail to point out he only became a Vegan after he stopped competing at the highest level :rolleyes:

https://www.bulletproofexec.com/carl-lewis-vegan/

Edit OK actually he did ok the year after becoming a vegan (1991) but went steadily downhill after that. When he was at his best (1984-1990) he was neither a vegan nor a vegetarian).

laoch na mona

ch750536 wrote: »

What does milk give you that you can't readily get elsewhere?

I like to eat as much locally produced food as possible (mostly down to environmental concerns), and grow as much of my own as I can. I don't seen the possibility of going vegan without relying on imports to get as much protein I need.

I did give some thought to this when a friend of mine became vegan on animal rights grounds, and I can not see any cruelty in Irish dairy farming, the cows are grass feed and there's virtually no existent veal industry here, so I don't see why I should forgo a huge part of the Irish diet

Mountainsandh

El_Dangeroso wrote: »

For the record I'd totally eat bugs if they could mash them up with something so the texture was nice and they tasted good. I think we're gonna see a lot more developments in food technology that allow just this in the future.

Prawns are a lot like insects and they are lovely tasting. It's just all down to what you are culturally used to.

No there's nothing in milk that can't be got elsewhere with a bit of effort, but why should I go to the effort when milk is:

1. Tasty
2. Easily available and very sustainably farmed in this country
3. Nutritious

I would survive no problem if I couldn't drink milk. But I don't have to avoid it so I don't.

+1

OP, I consume dairy because it is tasty and nutritious, and readily available.
Humans have survived by being opportunistic and resourceful, opting for the easiest, nutritious and healthy foods, with little or no compuction on its provenance.
It is great imo that we have, over millennia, developped a somewhat universal (but not quite yet) moral code, to exclude from our diet or regulate use of some animal species, ie pets, other humans, regulated hunting, farming and slaughter...

I am not prepared to push the moral code so far as to exclude milking an animal for my part, I am quite happy and comfortable with that aspect of farming, and I am surrounded by dairy farmers and it appears to me that Irish farmers take great care of their animals.

Incidentally, farmer ants keep herds of aphids and procure care and treatments to harvest a sugary substance they produce. I guess ants are as opportunistic and resourceful as we are, and by golly do they thrive ...:)

shruikan2553

Why do I eat dairy? Because cheese is dilicious. Melted cheese is like bacon, everything is better with it. Well, maybe not cornflakes or ice cream but lots of other food is.

Really want something with bacon and cheese now.

ford2600

laoch na mona wrote: »

I can not see any cruelty in Irish dairy farming, the cows are grass feed and there's virtually no existent veal industry here, so I don't see why I should forgo a huge part of the Irish diet

I eat plenty dairy, but dairy farming is a ruthless enough set up.

In New Zeland many bull calf holsteins/friesans are killed at birth; Very hard/uneconomical to fatten.

Nothing can make a racket like a shed full of drop calves screaming for their Mamies and the milk you pour over your cornflakes! They are usually separated after a few days.

High output of milk per year with a calf every year leads to high burn out/cull rate of dairy cows.

None of the above bothers me but don't paint it rosy when it isn't

ch750536

laoch na mona wrote: »

I like to eat as much locally produced food as possible (mostly down to environmental concerns), and grow as much of my own as I can. I don't seen the possibility of going vegan without relying on imports to get as much protein I need.

I did give some thought to this when a friend of mine became vegan on animal rights grounds, and I can not see any cruelty in Irish dairy farming, the cows are grass feed and there's virtually no existent veal industry here, so I don't see why I should forgo a huge part of the Irish diet

Question was about milk, you can eat meat and not drink milk.

Alf Veedersane

ch750536 wrote: »

What does milk give you that you can't readily get elsewhere?

Out of curiosity, what are the alternatives you would choose to give you what milk gives you?

Blackhorse Slim

For Lloyd

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/11/09/indianapolis-colt-eats-plants/18779971/

This is just one NFL team...

mickman

Blackhorse Slim wrote: »

For Lloyd

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2014/11/09/indianapolis-colt-eats-plants/18779971/

This is just one NFL team...

That sounds like complete nonsense

"A favorite dish that Jackson makes for Whalen is a kale salad with chopped onion, guacamole and lemon juice for dressing"

The meal above is a few hundred calories at an absolute maximum. No way does an NFL player survive on a meal like this

Puibo

FluffTheDog wrote:

Really? You don't think it's weird to drink breast milk from another animal? Milk that is obviously made for that animals offspring?

ive been saying the same thing for well over a year now.

mickman

his whole diet is about 2000 calories. Sounds very very hard to believe



"As he likes to describe it, it's flat soda with no sugar," said Osadetz. "But it kind of wakes up your system and gets your metabolism going."

Breakfast: Engine 2 cereal (shredded wheat, rolled oats, whole grains) with almond milk, banana, chia and flax seeds. Smoothie with fruits, veggies, nuts, spinach and kale.

Snack: Apple, pear, orange or carrots.

Lunch: Vega protein smoothie with kale, spinach, banana and other assorted fruit.

Dinner: Baked sweet potato with red lentil pasta and kale salad.

Bedtime snack: Two pieces of Ezekiel 4:9 flax bread, toasted, with almond butter and banana. He adds cinnamon and cocoa power. Apple.

Drinks: Green tea, almond milk or water.

bradlente

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Jesus wept.

Would you drink his tears though?

laoch na mona

mickman wrote: »

That sounds like complete nonsense

"A favorite dish that Jackson makes for Whalen is a kale salad with chopped onion, guacamole and lemon juice for dressing"

The meal above is a few hundred calories at an absolute maximum. No way does an NFL player survive on a meal like this

I'm almost certain you can get vegan whey protein, If there can be a vegan strong man there can be a vegan footballer

there's more than one way to skin a cat

generic2012

ford2600 wrote: »

I eat plenty dairy, but dairy farming is a ruthless enough set up.

In New Zeland many bull calf holsteins/friesans are killed at birth; Very hard/uneconomical to fatten.

Nothing can make a racket like a shed full of drop calves screaming for their Mamies and the milk you pour over your cornflakes! They are usually separated after a few days.

High output of milk per year with a calf every year leads to high burn out/cull rate of dairy cows.

None of the above bothers me but don't paint it rosy when it isn't

You're talking about New Zealand when it 'Irish milk' was specifically stated, nothing as extreme as New Zealand Dairy practises going on in Ireland. The calves don't lose their 'mammy's milk', each calf is bottle fed their own mother's milk to increase the quality of their immune system, regardless of sex.

Not making a go at you but Irish dairy has the lowest carbon footprint in the EU and the second lowest (after New Zealand) in the world, but it is far more ethical and less water intensive than New Zealand. It is also largely based on co-operative systems and is a model that all of Ireland should be very very proud of.

generic2012

laoch na mona wrote: »

I'm almost certain you can get vegan whey protein, If there can be a vegan strong man there can be a vegan footballer

there may ways to skin a cat ect

Do you know what whey is?

ford2600

generic2012 wrote: »

You're talking about New Zealand when it 'Irish milk' was specifically stated, nothing as extreme as New Zealand Dairy practises going on in Ireland. The calves don't lose their 'mammy's milk', each calf is bottle fed their own mother's milk to increase the quality of their immune system, regardless of sex.

Not making a go at you but Irish dairy has the lowest carbon footprint in the EU and the second lowest (after New Zealand) in the world, but it is far more ethical and less water intensive than New Zealand. It is also largely based on co-operative systems and is a model that all of Ireland should be very very proud of.

They get Beastings for first few days which, baring death or udder infection, will generally get their mothers. After that they get milk for a coupleof months.

I grew up on a dairy farm;the co op was a great initiative with it's roots in late 19th century. While some, like Drinagh, have their members interests at heart the larger groups are most certainly more share holder orientated.

Ffs cut me some slack I'm doingmy best to think like a vegan!

Mammal schmammal!
You don't eat dairy, you don't eat meat, you don't use anything other than organic.......

Go outside, get run over by a granny in a Prius.

laoch na mona

ford2600 wrote: »

I eat plenty dairy, but dairy farming is a ruthless enough set up.

In New Zeland many bull calf holsteins/friesans are killed at birth; Very hard/uneconomical to fatten.

Nothing can make a racket like a shed full of drop calves screaming for their Mamies and the milk you pour over your cornflakes! They are usually separated after a few days.

High output of milk per year with a calf every year leads to high burn out/cull rate of dairy cows.

None of the above bothers me but don't paint it rosy when it isn't

Irish dairy farming is much better (very little veal) which is the point I made, I would never eat veal. All I was doing was pointing out one of the main reasons why I still drink milk, much like avoiding non free range meat it comes down to animal welfare

laoch na mona

generic2012 wrote: »

Do you know what whey is?

sorry my mistake I meant vegan protein powder, which I would assume is much more complex to make then whey but hey it's their choice

Allison91

'Cause it's NYOMMY!!

generic2012

ford2600 wrote: »

They get Beastings for first few days which, baring death or udder infection, will generally get their mothers. After that they get milk for a coupleof months.

I grew up on a dairy farm;the co op was a great initiative with it's roots in late 19th century. While some, like Drinagh, have their members interests at heart the larger groups are most certainly more share holder orientated.

Ffs cut me some slack I'm doingmy best to think like a vegan!

Ah sure I was milking this morning! Just after reading a book about Lakeland Dairies co-op chronicling 1896-1996, the introduction is a great read on the history, mythology and cultural importance of milk in Ireland and the lakelands region.

3rd century quote from Soleinus - 'Ireland has such excellent pastures that cattle there are brought to the danger of their lives by over-feeding...'

There may well have been a taboo against beef consumption in Ireland - 'There are no beef-eating heroes in Irish literature', and there was pagan rituals to protect milk, butter and cows up until the tenth century.

This combined with the skill, efficiency and ethics in Irish milk (and butter) production makes Ireland a world leader, something very hard for a small country to achieve! Riles me no end!

You're first mistake in trying to think like a vegan was thinking! No one can be a vegan! There is animal products in practically everything, not only food!

So you'll have to quit that thinking craic if you wanna come across like a true vegan!

El_Dangeroso

generic2012 wrote: »

There may well have been a taboo against beef consumption in Ireland - 'There are no beef-eating heroes in Irish literature', and there was pagan rituals to protect milk, butter and cows up until the tenth century.

That's supposedly the ban on eating beef in hinduism comes from, cows were way too valuable alive as working animals and for dairy to eat them, so it became taboo and then enshrined as doctrine.

Most hunter-gatherer tribes will not eat the female of a species for similar reasons, common sense really.

Have a nice day

I think I eat too much dairy. Lots of milk, butter, cheese, yogurt, cream etc but I haven't seen any real health issues (unless large noisy farts in the morning are a result).
How could I give up toast and butter?

ch750536

mickman wrote: »

his whole diet is about 2000 calories. Sounds very very hard to believe



"As he likes to describe it, it's flat soda with no sugar," said Osadetz. "But it kind of wakes up your system and gets your metabolism going."

Breakfast: Engine 2 cereal (shredded wheat, rolled oats, whole grains) with almond milk, banana, chia and flax seeds. Smoothie with fruits, veggies, nuts, spinach and kale.

Snack: Apple, pear, orange or carrots.

Lunch: Vega protein smoothie with kale, spinach, banana and other assorted fruit.

Dinner: Baked sweet potato with red lentil pasta and kale salad.

Bedtime snack: Two pieces of Ezekiel 4:9 flax bread, toasted, with almond butter and banana. He adds cinnamon and cocoa power. Apple.

Drinks: Green tea, almond milk or water.

More 'I know I'm right so he must be lying' nonsense then...
:rolleyes:

ch750536

laoch na mona wrote: »

sorry my mistake I meant vegan protein powder, which I would assume is much more complex to make then whey but hey it's their choice

Hemp protein for example.

mickman

ch750536 wrote: »

More 'I know I'm right so he must be lying' nonsense then...
:rolleyes:

Yes. A smoothie with kale and a banana is the lunch of champions

Sonic Death Monkey

mickman wrote: »

Yes. A smoothie with kale and a banana is the lunch of champions

Well, yeah. He plays in the NFL.

Festinatio Cursor

Sonic Death Monkey wrote: »

Well, yeah. He plays in the NFL.

As of 2 weeks ago that is not exactly true, he has been put on the practice squad so is not actually able to play.

Sonic Death Monkey

Festinatio Cursor wrote: »

As of 2 weeks ago that is not exactly true, he has been put on the practice squad so is not actually able to play.

Yeah. What a loser.

INPUT INNPUT

OP needs Muufri.

modernfarmer.com/2014/12/coming-soon-3-vegan-scientists-lab-grown-milk/

mickman

Sonic Death Monkey wrote: »

Yeah. What a loser.

prob dropped due to lack of energy from a silly diet