Percentage of Catholic weddings in Ireland

AndrewJRenko

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Cultural catholic would be a better term on the census form.

Would be better if they asked about practice rather than opinion - have you been to Mass in the last month, or similar.

Walter H Price

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Most of the people that do have Catholic weddings these days are just bluffing, and just do so to keep their elderly relatives happy, who seem happy enough to go along with knowing their sons and daughters are just bluffing it. Rather like the census bluffing that goes on. Cultural catholic would be a better term on the census form.

To be honest i was really surprised when it came to planning my wedding and the decision not to baptize any kids we have , at the views allot of our mates and younger family members (who are in no way catholic, baptized but not practicing at all) because they viewed it as "the done thing " or " Irish Culture" that really surprised me, allot of these people are for the most part well educated, bright and relatively individually thinking people but when it came to a the church stuff (again a church most of them openly don't believe in , rip the p!ss out of etc...) they were completely blinkered , it was a real eye opener to be honest. like we expected it from the nana's and some of the older Aunty's but not cousins , friends and siblings all under 30 but who hadn't set foot in a church since their confo other then for weddings , christenings and funerals to have any sort of issue.

lazygal

I am in several parenting groups on Facebook. In one, two out of 30 babies weren't baptised, mine included, in another I was the only one who wasn't baptising. People have all sorts of excuses, like the grannies and there was a poster here who said she baptised because there was a 200 year old christening gown in the family, or school places. Some people also get a little defensive about their choices when we say we haven't and won't baptise our children-one guy told me my principles would change once we saw our kids wouldn't get into the best schools.

pilly

lazygal wrote: »

I am in several parenting groups on Facebook. In one, two out of 30 babies weren't baptised, mine included, in another I was the only one who wasn't baptising. People have all sorts of excuses, like the grannies and there was a poster here who said she baptised because there was a 200 year old christening gown in the family, or school places. Some people also get a little defensive about their choices when we say we haven't and won't baptise our children-one guy told me my principles would change once we saw our kids wouldn't get into the best schools.

Personally I don't see a big issue with baptising a child either way. It's not like they're branded with a big Catholic stamp. They're still free to make their own choices later in life.

Most people just don't see it as a big deal and tbf it is necessary to get into a lot of schools. This will change in coming years but it hasn't changed yet.

Mr. CooL ICE

Just had a think back to the most recent weddings I've attended. 43% catholic weddings from my anecdotal experience

2012 - Church. Groom staunch atheist, not sure about bride
2014 - Civil. SSM, both atheist
2015 - Church. Groom atheist, not sure about bride
2015 - Civil. Both atheist
2015 - Civil. Groom staunch atheist, bride lapsed catholic
2016 - Church. 99% sure groom is atheist, not sure about bride. Both families deeply religious though
2017 - Civil. Don't know the couple well enough to know leanings

nozzferrahhtoo

pilly wrote: »

Personally I don't see a big issue with baptising a child either way. It's not like they're branded with a big Catholic stamp. They're still free to make their own choices later in life.

And if later in life the choice they wish to make is to severe all links with the catholic church, remove themselves from being considered a member, and not have their name and existence used in any and all calculations on the churches numbers......... how would you suggest they exercise that choice? Is there currently an option for this? I admit I lost track of it once the church closed the loophole the "count me out" website was using to let people do it.

I think the ideal many parents, myself included, go for is to allow their children to make as many of their own choices later in life as possible. As membership in the catholic church seems to be eternal once applied for...... many parents would like to let their children make that choice later in life ideally by themselves rather than make it now and have no way for the child to unmake it later.

pilly

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

And if later in life the choice they wish to make is to severe all links with the catholic church, remove themselves from being considered a member, and not have their name and existence used in any and all calculations on the churches numbers......... how would you suggest they exercise that choice? Is there currently an option for this? I admit I lost track of it once the church closed the loophole the "count me out" website was using to let people do it.

I think the ideal many parents, myself included, go for is to allow their children to make as many of their own choices later in life as possible. As membership in the catholic church seems to be eternal once applied for...... many parents would like to let their children make that choice later in life ideally by themselves rather than make it now and have no way for the child to unmake it later.

The census is where most official calculations are taken from in Ireland, people have a choice at that point to state their religion.

To me the churches own figures mean nothing except to them.

I get where people are coming from when they don't have their children baptised but I also see the other side. Are you not actually removing some choices from a child also? Like what school they can go to? Whether or not they can make their communion?

lazygal

pilly wrote: »

The census is where most official calculations are taken from in Ireland, people have a choice at that point to state their religion.

To me the churches own figures mean nothing except to them.

I get where people are coming from when they don't have their children baptised but I also see the other side. Are you not actually removing some choices from a child also? Like what school they can go to? Whether or not they can make their communion?

My children aren't catholic, they would never make 'their' communion because it not something they own. The same way they won't do any other religious rites until they're old enough to make an informed decision. We have school places for them also.

Fred Swanson

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pilly

lazygal wrote: »

My children aren't catholic, they would never make 'their' communion because it not something they own. The same way they won't do any other religious rites until they're old enough to make an informed decision. We have school places for them also.

Good for you.

nozzferrahhtoo

pilly wrote: »

The census is where most official calculations are taken from in Ireland, people have a choice at that point to state their religion.

Not really an answer to the question I asked though is it?

pilly wrote: »

To me the churches own figures mean nothing except to them.

I doubt it is to you that such people have concerns over what the figures mean though. The ability to be able to claim a large membership base has real world potentials and implications that those wishing to take their names OFF such rosters would prefer not to be feeding. From obtaining sponsorship and funding, to lobbying for influence of politicians, and so forth.

pilly wrote: »

Are you not actually removing some choices from a child also? Like what school they can go to? Whether or not they can make their communion?

Assuming you are talking about the first school a child goes to, I have to admit I have yet to meet ANY child that chose the school they went to which somewhat negates your point. So no, I do not think you are removing any choice there really as it is not a choice children of that age generally have or make in the first place.

But communion too is a bit of a non-point as it is not a "Miss it and it's gone" thing. One can enter into the sacrament at any later point in ones life too. A person, at 18, who has not yet had it or done it can happily amble along and partake of the initiations required. So no, you would not be removing a choice there either.

pilly

lazygal wrote: »

My children aren't catholic, they would never make 'their' communion because it not something they own. The same way they won't do any other religious rites until they're old enough to make an informed decision. We have school places for them also.

You know your previous post mocked people for getting all defensive about their choice to baptise their children and yet you're also highly defensive about your choice not to.

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Walter H Price

I'd never really be defensive of it to be honest , it just makes sense to us not to get married in a church , we don't believe in any of it the church has played 0 role in our lives or relationship to date , other then the amount of effort i went through last year trying to leave it formally , as such it would be totally meaningless and impersonal in our view to get married in one also why would we baptize our kids at birth , we don't believe in it we wont be raising our kids catholic or bringing them to mass so why baptize them, the schools barrier will be gone soon enough i'd imagine , id be hoping to get out of here before having to send kids to school anyway and if at 8 or 9 they want to make their communion they can get baptized then and make it if they want , likewise with getting married friend of my parents got baptized at 42 so as he could get married in a church (he was non religious and from an atheist background) but the girl he was marrying (also non religious) wanted a Church venue. So your not taking anything away from kids , like they can enter the church at any time should they wish , but once in its a fkin nightmare trying to leave.

pilly

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Where have I said I didn't believe in God?

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recedite

pilly wrote: »

The census is where most official calculations are taken from in Ireland, people have a choice at that point to state their religion.

To me the churches own figures mean nothing except to them.

Strictly speaking, this "should be" true. But "sentiment" is what drives politicians, and if they get a sense that nearly all babies are being baptised into the RCC, there is a tendency for them to believe that nearly all voters are happy with schools and hospitals being controlled by the RCC.

If the census figures were the only factor involved, we would see an immediate divestment of a large number of existing RC schools into a more secular model. But in fact, we have only seen one or two.

Only one operating school has directly swapped from religious patronage to having a multidenominational ethos, that being Newtownwhite Educate Together National School in Co Mayo, which was under Church of Ireland ownership until 2014. The Catholic Church was due to hand over its Burren National School building outside the town to Educate Together last September, but the property was deemed unfit for purpose.
About 90 per cent of primary schools remain under the patronage of the Catholic Church.

As for maternity hospitals, that's a whole other debate raging away, and the census results appear to have nothing to do with it.

magicbastarder

pilly wrote: »

I get where people are coming from when they don't have their children baptised but I also see the other side. Are you not actually removing some choices from a child also? Like what school they can go to? Whether or not they can make their communion?

you're not removing anyone's choice about whether they will want to partake in religious ceremonies, by not doing it when they're too young to consent/understand implications.
i would struggle to understand why this could be considered an issue.

pilly

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Maybe I should have worded it differently. What I meant by that was I don't have an issue with parents either baptising or not baptising their children.

I don't pass judgement either way.

Walter H Price

pilly wrote: »

Maybe I should have worded it differently. What I meant by that was I don't have an issue with parents either baptising or not baptising their children.

I don't pass judgement either way.

i'd agree i get why people do it , in terms of it does at present make getting kids into schools easier and stuff , i couldn't name one of the parents who's kids christenings we've been too who are remotely religious (in fact a good 3/4 of em were living in sin ) but it does keep the Ma's and Nana's happy , that will change but slowly and in time. I wouldn't call people out as hypocrites or question why they were choosing to do it, the same with church weddings.

I would expect the same curtsy for choosing not too , my view is people who know us know we are not religious at all ,it should in my view have been expected and accepted that we wouldn't marry in the church or that we wouldn't have kids baptized.

kylith

pilly wrote: »

Where have I said I didn't believe in God?

So you're happy for non-believers to get up in front of the altar (heresy?) and the priest and your god and lie (sin!) about how they intend to bring their child up because one of Christianity's most sacred rites, that of baptism into the church, "doesn't really matter"?

pilly

kylith wrote: »

So you're happy for non-believers to get up in front of the altar (heresy?) and the priest and your god and lie (sin!) about how they intend to bring their child up because one of Christianity's most sacred rites, that of baptism into the church, "doesn't really matter"?

I couldn't give two figs. You're correct. Does no harm to me. Why would I care?

Murrisk

pilly wrote: »

I get where people are coming from when they don't have their children baptised but I also see the other side. Are you not actually removing some choices from a child also? Like what school they can go to? Whether or not they can make their communion?

My brother-in-law is mid-30s and was brought up in an atheist family. As you can imagine, he was therefore surrounded by children receiving the sacraments growing up. I asked him if he felt left out not doing the communion preparation and not having a communion day. He said he didn't care at all and for the communion day itself, his parents planned a big fun day for him. As he said "I got to have the fun part of the day without having to go to Mass!". He just found the religious stuff weird and confusing anyway.

If he had decided when he was older than he wanted to be Catholic and have all the sacraments, well, the choice was there.