**Carbon Monoxide Awareness**

Wearb

marsbar1 wrote: »

Its important to be aware of carbon monoxide. But we should be aware of going OTT. For example a house with no gas appliances, an oil boiler outside in the garden and no fireplace there is no risk. No need for a vent in every room and worries about carbon monoxide.

Believe it or not, electric ovens have been known to produce CO.
Also a poorly installed outside boiler can also cause problems. Lots of them are poorly installed.

DGOBS

And ventilation is about air quality (and part of our building regulations), not just for fuel burning appliances.

We live in a 'damp' country, ventilation prevents things like mould growth, which when sporing can cause respiratory issues and other health problems.

FTimon

Are there CO2 and Smoke/Fire detectors in one unit?

JamesM

We had the oil boiler in the kitchen and got a combined detector. Not a good idea, because the grill often set off the smoke detector. We would then move it out of the kitchen, so therefore had no CO2 detector in the kitchen. We later got separate ones.
Jim.

Wearb

Even the paramedics were affected. Just goes to show that you don't need to be sitting there breathing it in for any long period of time. You have to take action instantly. GET OUT. Leave doors open behind you. Call fire brigade if necessary.

http://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/man-60-dies-from-suspected-carbon-monoxide-poisoning-34673433.html

Wearb

Know the Danger Signs

Watch out for any of the warning signs that your appliance is not functioning properly:

Staining, sooting or discolouration around the appliance
Appliances that burn slowly, badly (orange or 'floppy' flames) or go out
A yellow or orange flame where normally blue
Condensation or dampness on walls and windows in the room once the appliance is lit
A strange smell when the appliance is on
Rusting or water streaking on appliance cabinet/vent/chimney
Loose or disconnected vent/chimney connections or guards

If you detect any of these conditions, have a professional service technician fully examine the unit for safety.

http://www.carbonmonoxide.ie/index.htm

braka

Just to pass on my experience of an encounter with CO.
Last year I carried out a service (for a young couple with a young baby) on an internal Firebird Super Q.
When I noticed they hadn't got a CO alarm anywhere in the house (they had a stove also), I advised they get one ASAP and they
promised they would.

One morning around 9:30 (about 3 months later) I got a call to say that their CO alarm had gone off, and this had happened only

a short time after their oil boiler had been running.

I immediately went to the house ...having advised the couple to vacate it.
I used my Flue Gas Analyser to check the CO levels inside of the house, and was amazed to find high levels of C.O. 250-300

parts/million in all rooms!

I switched on the Oil Boiler and found levels of 20 parts/million in the flue... so that ruled out the Oil Boiler as the CO source.

Eventually I traced the CO high levels to a Bucket Of ASHES (clean out from the stove) which had been left inside the back door

that morning!!! Coincidentally at the same time as the oil boiler was running.

The ashes contained some small particles of unburnt turf / briquettes and this was producing Carbon Monoxide at a rate of

THOUSANDS of parts/ Million. !!
The ashes were to have been left outside in the ashes bin, but there was a severe wind blowing earlier, and they were left (in

the galvanised bucket) at the backdoor for removal later.
The bucket was hot to touch on its side, but there was no smell of fumes/burning in the house.

When I brought the bucket outside and poured water into it, there was an immediate blast of steam from the ashes !!

I have no doubt but the CO alarm averted a tragedy in this case, and it taught me a valuable lesson on CO and how easily it can

be produced.

I have told many about this incident, as I believe the public don't appreciate the danger of C.O. and it needs to be constantly highlighted.

DGOBS

@Braka, 30ppm is the evacuation limit for you if carrying out room CO testing, where you encounter 200-300ppm, you need to ventilate and evacuate, do not hang around in this type of atmosphere.

You should have a personal CO alarm on your breast pocket at all times in your line of work.

braka

DGOBS wrote: »

@Braka, 30ppm is the evacuation limit for you if carrying out room CO testing, where you encounter 200-300ppm, you need to ventilate and evacuate, do not hang around in this type of atmosphere.

You should have a personal CO alarm on your breast pocket at all times in your line of work.

I agree 100 % DGOBS ...

If I was to do it again I'd have ventilated before searching for source ..

Personal CO alarm is a part of the kit.. as I'm only too aware of the CO danger.

In fairness, I'd say the people on this forum are aware...its the general public that need reminding of the CO threat.

The ashes in a bucket scenario was one I hadn't seen discussed anywhere so I thought I'd share it.

Wearb

braka wrote: »

I agree 100 % DGOBS ...

If I was to do it again I'd have ventilated before searching for source ..

Personal CO alarm is a part of the kit.. as I'm only too aware of the CO danger.

In fairness, I'd say the people on this forum are aware...its the general public that need reminding of the CO threat.

The ashes in a bucket scenario was one I hadn't seen discussed anywhere so I thought I'd share it.

People were killed in France by leaving a used BBQ in the kitchen part of their tent.

K.Flyer

Unashamedly lifted from Y.L.Y.L.

She was joking though

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

http://www.carbonmonoxide.ie/htm/week.htm

Robbie.G

K.Flyer wrote: »

Unashamedly lifted from Y.L.Y.L.

She was joking though

Unfortunately I had a similar situation today
Got a call to a house CO alarm was sounding
Tenant told me it was sounding on and off for the last few days but was going mad today so he took it down
I was wearing my personal CO alarm it started going off
The fire was lit
I told the tenant to put out the fire open windows and doors he Refused
I told him again he told he would take his chances and showed me to the door

Dtp1979

Robbie.G wrote: »

Unfortunately I had a similar situation today
Got a call to a house CO alarm was sounding
Tenant told me it was sounding on and off for the last few days but was going mad today so he took it down
I was wearing my personal CO alarm it started going off
The fire was lit
I told the tenant to put out the fire open windows and doors he Refused
I told him again he told he would take his chances and showed me to the door

It was said here before it only a proper cnut would act like that when you try to help them

anthonyos

Robbie.G wrote: »

Unfortunately I had a similar situation today
Got a call to a house CO alarm was sounding
Tenant told me it was sounding on and off for the last few days but was going mad today so he took it down
I was wearing my personal CO alarm it started going off
The fire was lit
I told the tenant to put out the fire open windows and doors he Refused
I told him again he told he would take his chances and showed me to the door

What do you do then would you call bg networks

Wearb

Robbie.G wrote: »

Unfortunately I had a similar situation today
Got a call to a house CO alarm was sounding
Tenant told me it was sounding on and off for the last few days but was going mad today so he took it down
I was wearing my personal CO alarm it started going off
The fire was lit
I told the tenant to put out the fire open windows and doors he Refused
I told him again he told he would take his chances and showed me to the door

FFS Robbie. I would call the fire brigade and let them decide what to do then.

Stupid f er

Dtp1979

anthonyos wrote: »

What do you do then would you call bg networks

Was an open fire. Not gas I think

Robbie.G

anthonyos wrote: »

What do you do then would you call bg networks

It was a council house so all I could do was to contact the housing engineer and tell them
They contacted him and he was not really any better with them he just kept going on that the neighbor got a stove and why didn't he
That tells you the mentality of some people
And plenty of empty Dutch gold cans around

Tom44

I have stopped trying to save the world and now concentrate on those who appericate been saved.
You did the right call Robbie .

With gas, you can legaly disconnect appliances and have back up.
With oil you don't have that, but I have cut wires before, I'd sooner be done for vandalism than have the consequences.
With solid fuel we don't have that liberty.


Last wires cut was 3 week's ago. Customer rang asking where she would get a new co alarm as the old one keeps going off.


Or if I hear again, "yes we must get one as we now have a baby" !!!

Calahonda52

Just on this topic, are there recent regs for the CO alarms, was on a social call in two houses last week where they were being fitted, I did'nt ask why as not my fight.
Thanks

Robbie.G

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Just on this topic, are there recent regs for the CO alarms, was on a social call in two houses last week where they were being fitted, I did'nt ask why as not my fight.
Thanks

As from September 2 years ago a CO
Alarm must be fitted with a new boiler install
And 1 within 3 mtrs of the bedrooms afaik

Robbie.G

Tom44 wrote: »

I have stopped trying to save the world and now concentrate on those who appericate been saved.
You did the right call Robbie .

Thanks Michael

Effects

Robbie.G wrote: »

As from September 2 years ago a CO
Alarm must be fitted with a new boiler install
And 1 within 3 mtrs of the bedrooms afaik

I've just had a gas boiler fitted in a bathroom. Does the alarm need to be in the bathroom or will outside the bathroom door in the hall work?

Robbie.G

Effects wrote: »

I've just had a gas boiler fitted in a bathroom. Does the alarm need to be in the bathroom or will outside the bathroom door in the hall work?

Ideally it should be in the same room
Personally I wouldn't fit a boiler in a bathroom as there are a lot of things to consider regarding electrics and zones

Effects

Robbie.G wrote: »

Ideally it should be in the same room
Personally I wouldn't fit a boiler in a bathroom as there are a lot of things to consider regarding electrics and zones

It was originally supposed to be under the stairs until the plumber said it can't go under the stairs for safety regs. It then went on the wall behind which is in the bathroom. The co alarms haven't been wired in to the rest of the heat and smoke detectors.

Robbie.G

Effects wrote: »

It was originally supposed to be under the stairs until the plumber said it can't go under the stairs for safety regs. It then went on the wall behind which is in the bathroom. The co alarms haven't been wired in to the rest of the heat and smoke detectors.

Is it rather under the stairs than in the bathroom
Due to the current electrical regs I don't think it's permissible in the bathroom
I could be wrong though

Dtp1979

Effects wrote: »

It was originally supposed to be under the stairs until the plumber said it can't go under the stairs for safety regs. It then went on the wall behind which is in the bathroom. The co alarms haven't been wired in to the rest of the heat and smoke detectors.

What's wrong with it under the stairs?

Effects

Dtp1979 wrote: »

What's wrong with it under the stairs?

If it goes on fire it burns the only exit from upstairs.

Robbie.G wrote: »

Due to the current electrical regs I don't think it's permissible in the bathroom
I could be wrong though

I presume it's far enough away from the zones of the sink and the bath so probably fine. Electrician was annoyed about me wanting a 5 amp socket under a standard socket, that someone in wheelchair wouldn't be able plug a lamp in and out. I'd hope he was as thoughtful about electric shock in a bathroom!

Dtp1979

Effects wrote: »

If it goes on fire it burns the only exit from upstairs.



I presume it's far enough away from the zones of the sink and the bath so probably fine. Electrician was annoyed about me wanting a 5 amp socket under a standard socket, that someone in wheelchair wouldn't be able plug a lamp in and out. I'd hope he was as thoughtful about electric shock in a bathroom!

I may check the gas regs. Never heard of that one before

DGOBS

You can install a boiler in a bathroom within gas regs, just not in zone 1&2, spur etc will have to be outside the room though.
CO alarms are not for bathrooms as will not cope with the moisture, so directly outside the bathroom at high level (above windows and door height) read the intrusions completely for correct placement.

Effects

Boiler is outside zone 2. Spur is just below the boiler though.
I'll make sure the co alarm goes outside the bathroom door so.

Dtp1979

Had a look at regs and can't find anything about not putting a boiler under a stairs

Robbie.G

DGOBS wrote: »

You can install a boiler in a bathroom within gas regs, just not in zone 1&2, spur etc will have to be outside the room though.
CO alarms are not for bathrooms as will not cope with the moisture, so directly outside the bathroom at high level (above windows and door height) read the intrusions completely for correct placement.

I personally wouldn't fit a boiler in one
Under the current electrical
Regs only a rec can legally work on any electrics in a bathroom
Where does that stand

Effects

The architect and engineer wanted to move the stud in order to keep the boiler under the stairs. It would have been too much work and extra cost. Maybe it was just the mechanical engineer airing on the side of caution.

Dtp1979

Effects wrote: »

The architect and engineer wanted to move the stud in order to keep the boiler under the stairs. It would have been too much work and extra cost. Maybe it was just the mechanical engineer airing on the side of caution.

That's no problem. Your plumber shouldn't be making up regs though

DGOBS

Restrictions would be if the house was more than 2 storey or multi-occupancy (like B&B for example) only other restriction is the requirement for a smoke alarm in that area.

If it was me, and a new build, would fire rate the compartment internally.

mikeysmith

Hi
I bought a kidde co alarm for the room with the solid fuel stove and another for outside the bedrooms upstairs.

The alarm seems to be wall mounting and it says not to lie it flat( if free- standing on a Table)

Does that mean I can't mount it on the ceiling in the room with the stove ?

Robbie.G

mikeysmith wrote: »

Hi
I bought a kidde co alarm for the room with the solid fuel stove and another for outside the bedrooms upstairs.

The alarm seems to be wall mounting and it says not to lie it flat( if free- standing on a Table)

Does that mean I can't mount it on the ceiling in the room with the stove ?

No it's perfectly fine to fit it on the ceiling
That's what it's designed for

mikeysmith

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0030BEM0K/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1505766050&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=kidde+co+alarm&dpPl=1&dpID=410u6CxHe1L

It's that one
Are they not designed to be mounted on a wall?

Robbie.G

mikeysmith wrote: »

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B0030BEM0K/ref=mp_s_a_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1505766050&sr=8-6&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=kidde+co+alarm&dpPl=1&dpID=410u6CxHe1L

It's that one
Are they not designed to be mounted on a wall?

They are wall or ceiling mount
What it means by not lying flat is the sensors would be in the wrong position

mikeysmith

Thanks, and the alarm outside the bedrooms should I fit that at eye level?

Robbie.G

mikeysmith wrote: »

Thanks, and the alarm outside the bedrooms should I fit that at eye level?

The alarm outside bedrooms can be ceiling mounted
in bedrooms it's recommended to fit at breathing height whilst in bed so around 3 ft off ground
Always follow manufacturers instructions regarding fitting and you can't go wrong

PadraigL

My co alarm is in the utility with the gas boiler.

How do you know if the alarm is working? Is there a way to test it?
Can it be part of a boiler service??

Thx

kingbhome

First time getting a stove in my living room. Any recommendations for a carbon monoxide alarm.

Wearb

kingbhome wrote: »

First time getting a stove in my living room. Any recommendations for a carbon monoxide alarm.

Any of them with a CE mark. Read the instructions. Test regularly. Write the expiry date on it somewhere. They all have a limited lifespan. (The one I have has a 7 year span and then needs to be replaced)

kingbhome

Wearb wrote: »

Any of them with a CE mark. Read the instructions. Test regularly. Write the expiry date on it somewhere. They all have a limited lifespan. (The one I have has a 7 year span and then needs to be replaced)

Are the battery powered ones ok?

Wearb

kingbhome wrote: »

Are the battery powered ones ok?

Yes. Just follow instructions and use test button regularly

kingbhome

Wearb wrote: »

Yes. Just follow instructions and use test button regularly

What about for insurance for ones home. Is the battery powered ok. It's kept at head height when sitting down.

Wearb

kingbhome wrote: »

What about for insurance for ones home. Is the battery powered ok. It's kept at head height when sitting down.

You will need to contact your insurer if you have any worries in that regard.

As for its placement, you need to read instructions. I have seen different makers give different advice.

WealthyB

Hi All

Hoping for some guidance here.. My elderly mum had a wood burner stove installed a few months back, and she's only told me now, but ever since her Carbon Monoxide levels are coming in consistently at 35-40ppm when the fire is on. I had her bring a neighbours detector into the house, same results (so it's not a faulty detector).

My query revolves around where she stands with the installer?

Looking at http://www.carbonmonoxide.ie/htm/poisoning.htm it says that at 50ppm is "Threshold limit, no apparent toxic symptoms"

However I also saw this: https://www.jerrykelly.com/blog/the-numbers-behind-safe-and-unsafe-carbon-monoxide-levels
"When the CO content begins to get higher than that due to something like a CO leak from a cracked heat exchanger, it starts to have health effects on the people in your home. At a ppm of 35-400 over a 1-3 hour period, many people will experience headaches and loss of judgement."

And she also says she's had a dull headache for the last 4 days. The installer is coming around tomorrow, but he already said on the phone that "you shouldn't worry about the numbers on the detector, as long as it's not beeping mad at you" so I'm worried she'll be fobbed off with similar guff

Any advise here would be most welcome, thanks in advance.

MAJJ

WealthyB wrote: »

Hi All

Hoping for some guidance here.. My elderly mum had a wood burner stove installed a few months back, and she's only told me now, but ever since her Carbon Monoxide levels are coming in consistently at 35-40ppm when the fire is on. I had her bring a neighbours detector into the house, same results (so it's not a faulty detector).

My query revolves around where she stands with the installer?

Looking at http://www.carbonmonoxide.ie/htm/poisoning.htm it says that at 50ppm is "Threshold limit, no apparent toxic symptoms"

However I also saw this: https://www.jerrykelly.com/blog/the-numbers-behind-safe-and-unsafe-carbon-monoxide-levels
"When the CO content begins to get higher than that due to something like a CO leak from a cracked heat exchanger, it starts to have health effects on the people in your home. At a ppm of 35-400 over a 1-3 hour period, many people will experience headaches and loss of judgement."

And she also says she's had a dull headache for the last 4 days. The installer is coming around tomorrow, but he already said on the phone that "you shouldn't worry about the numbers on the detector, as long as it's not beeping mad at you" so I'm worried she'll be fobbed off with similar guff

Any advise here would be most welcome, thanks in advance.

Is there a fixed open vent in the room? Does the stove draw air from the room or from the outside, most likely the former. If that my house or family no fire to be lit until resolved.

Is the installer a registered installer as they sound a bit casual about the alarm?