Early Parenthood and Social Class

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

So you start a thread slamming people on welfare, young parents and throw in a snide dig at those using family for childcare and you wonder why people take issue with it.

Montroseee

Montroseee wrote: »

Because the benefits system here makes it a very viable lifestyle choice, it is possible to have a decent standard of living on it.

Do enlighten us on this.

Have you acutely looked up the statistics on birth rates by age in Ireland.

One eyed Jack

Tasden wrote: »

You chat to people about the benefits they're claiming? Go on so, tell us which ones I can claim if I want two cars and a holiday :pac:

This is the free prams queue, the queue for the free cars is there, that's the queue for the free houses, and when you're done queuing for all three, you need the free holiday after all that just to recover. They give that to you on the way out :pac:

Summer wind

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

I think this comment is a bit unfair. My mam was 21 when she had my sister and my dad was 25. They were married two years before. My mam was working until the week before she had her baby and my dad worked very hard all his life and was never unemployed. You don't know the details of everyone's lives.

Tasden

Summer wind wrote: »

I think this comment is a bit unfair. My mam was 21 when she had my sister and my dad was 25. They were married two years before. My mam was working until the week before she had her baby and my dad worked very hard all his life and was never unemployed. You don't know the details of everyone's lives.

Oh they do. They discussed it all with the parents before and after the pt meetings.

Geuze

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Early parenthood would mean 15/16 to me not 20

The average age of mothers at first birth is 32, so having babies at 20 is very young.

smcgiff

Geuze wrote: »

The average age of mothers at first birth is 32, so having babies at 20 is very young.

That's false logic.

Rubberlegs

dark crystal wrote: »

Me too - I must ask my college going daughter just where I went wrong in raising her.



You're surprised? Really?

I suspect that's exactly the reaction you were aiming for.

19, also. Eldest also in college, works part time, driving with full license since before turning 18. Where did I go wrong?? Hilarious attitude I must say. No, I'm not taking offence, I just find it ridiculously amusing.

Montroseee

73Cat wrote: »

19, also. Eldest also in college, works part time, driving with full license since before turning 18. Where did I go wrong?? Hilarious attitude I must say. No, I'm not taking offence, I just find it ridiculously amusing.

Was the pregnancy planned? You can't say that most teen pregnancies turn out this way though, often it is also a vicious cycle.

The_Captain

Geuze wrote: »

The average age of mothers at first birth is 32, so having babies at 20 is very young.

No it's not. The average age of women giving birth is 32, regardless of number of children.

The average age of first time mothers at birth is 28

Penny Tration

Montroseee wrote: »

Was the pregnancy planned? You can't say that most teen pregnancies turn out this way though, often it is also a vicious cycle.

What's it to you if the pregnancy was planned or not?


Also, in the case of an unplanned pregnancy, what do you suggest the woman do, since abortion is illegal here?

Rubberlegs

Montroseee wrote: »

Was the pregnancy planned? You can't say that most teen pregnancies turn out this way though, often it is also a vicious cycle.

Unplanned, not that it matters. We are still together, 3 kids now. To say the majority of young mothers are not fit to be parents, is a sweeping generalisation. My life is, and always has been my kids, since I was 19.

El Weirdo

Montroseee wrote: »

Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system...

I'm going to ask the same question I normally ask when this gets trotted out... If it's so good, why don't you do it?

Montroseee

El Weirdo wrote: »

I'm going to ask the same question I normally ask when the gets trotted out... If it's so good, why don't you do it?

I've had goals and career aspirations since I was very young. I worked hard and got there in the end, being on benefits would just be existing to me and a waste of potential. I want a better life for myself and one that I've worked for.

Montroseee

73Cat wrote: »

Unplanned, not that it matters. We are still together, 3 kids now. To say the majority of young mothers are not fit to be parents, is a sweeping generalisation. My life is, and always has been my kids, since I was 19.

We just have to take your word for this which means very little on the internet. The criteria for 'my kids are my life' varies wildly and most mothers will say this anyway, whether it's true or not is another thing. It does matter that it was unplanned btw, if it was a planned pregnancy I was going to ask you what kind of thought and logic went into the choice. I was 19 the Summer I finished my leaving, really couldn't imagine having a child then, it's just so young.

El Weirdo

Montroseee wrote: »

... Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system ...

Montroseee wrote: »

... being on benefits would just be existing ...

Which is it then?

dark crystal

Montroseee wrote: »

I've had goals and career aspirations since I was very young. I worked hard and got there in the end, being on benefits would just be existing to me and a waste of potential. I want a better life for myself and one that I've worked for.

Existing? Sure earlier you said the benefits crowd that hang around the school gates have a very decent lifestyle - 2 cars/holidays/nice clothes etc.

I know people on welfare and not one of them has two cars or takes holidays. They must be doing it wrong.

Montroseee

El Weirdo wrote: »

Which is it then?

Existing as in not achieving my goals or even working towards them.

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

I've had goals and career aspirations since I was very young. I worked hard and got there in the end, being on benefits would just be existing to me and a waste of potential. I want a better life for myself and one that I've worked for.

Guess what? So did I, so did my husband. Having a baby young shouldn't mean you say goodbye to all that. I lived on benefits for the first two years of my daughters life and it was tough, no holidays or car or wild nights out for me. It wasn't easy. I'm very lucky I was able to get out of that cycle and I feel sorry for anyone who is stuck due to lack of options. I started my first job when I graduated at 22, my husband was working since he was 20. We pay our taxes, we raised our kids well, we're no different to any other family because we started our early. Don't assume that everyone on welfare is happy to be there or doesn't aspire to be more.

How Soon Is Now

You got to love the hidden and maybe not so hidden agenda threads on here.

Instead of trying to jazz it up and make it out to be a major issue why not just say i think im better then these people !

My mother and all her family are from Inchicore i know what its like so i know the ''type'' your looking down your nose at.

It all stems back to the fact there's such a poxy attitude towards anyone whos living for ''free'' in this country now. I dunno weather its bitterness or maybe a bit of jealousy?

I know plenty of auld ones who cant look after there kids and are not able for them but i guess thats not the issue here is it ?

Its just another ''lower class people on the dole are ruining my life'' thread :pac:

Montroseee

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

You got to love the hidden and maybe not so hidden agenda threads on here.

Instead of trying to jazz it up and make it out to be a major issue why not just say i think im better then these people !

My mother and all her family are from Inchicore i know what its like so i know the ''type'' your looking down your nose at.

It all stems back to the fact there's such a poxy attitude towards anyone whos living for ''free'' in this country now. I dunno weather its bitterness or maybe a bit of jealousy?

I know plenty of auld ones who cant look after there kids and are not able for them but i guess thats not the issue here is it ?

Its just another ''lower class people on the dole are ruining my life'' thread :pac:

FFS, I'm from Inchicore. I lived there for the first 15 years of my life and from 30-35, you are the one with the hidden agenda. Please do not come into this thread and derail it with a completely different issue.

How Soon Is Now

Montroseee wrote: »

FFS, I'm from Inchicore. I lived there for the first 15 years of my life and from 30-35, you are the one with the hidden agenda. Please do not come into this thread and derail it with a completely different issue.

A different issue ? Which is ?

Jingle_Balls

Jingle_Balls wrote: »

Also, in the case of an unplanned pregnancy, what do you suggest the woman do, since abortion is illegal here?

She was obviously secretly planning it all along with her lower social class. sponging hussy. :rolleyes:


:pac:

Rubberlegs

Montroseee wrote: »

We just have to take your word for this which means very little on the internet. The criteria for 'my kids are my life' varies wildly and most mothers will say this anyway, whether it's true or not is another thing. It does matter that it was unplanned btw, if it was a planned pregnancy I was going to ask you what kind of thought and logic went into the choice. I was 19 the Summer I finished my leaving, really couldn't imagine having a child then, it's just so young.

I'm not in the habit of spouting s**t, so take my word or leave it. Yes, 19 is very young, but it's surprising how you deal with situations when you find yourself in them. I can't see how I would have been a better / more responsible mother, had I been maybe 10 yrs older, to be honest. How old were you?

anncoates

Tasden wrote: »

So did the young parents list the benefits they're on while waiting for the pt meeting to start or was it afterwards?

They have t shirts with the list of benefits displayed on them .

Like band t shirts with tour dates.

Get with it, like.

allibastor

Montroseee wrote: »

I've always wondered about the relationship between early parenthood and social class/benefits. A while back I was living in Inchicore and upon arriving at my daughter's parent teacher meeting, it felt like I had just rocked up to a 21st such was the average age of the parents present. Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system, which I have witnessed first hand, it begs the question of how much influence does this on people having children in their late teens/early twenties. I really don't think the vast majority of that age group have enough life experience or are fit to be parents, I don't like the way it is such a viable lifestyle choice.

I actually had children young OP.
I have a very good job and my wife has retrained in her desired career field.

Everytime I go to a parent teacher meeting or event we are usually the youngest there by a long margin, so much so that I was once asked was I the older brother.

I don't think welfare had made it a decision for us, or that we were living like royalty or expected to. I worked all the way along and made a career.

eviltwin

What it all comes down to is the OP thinks having a baby at a certain age means you will be a lousy parent. Granted there are things that you don't have at that age that can be an issue but its not insurmountable. I've had one child in my teens and one in my 30's and honestly I can't see much of a difference between me as a parent beyond the fact with no 2 I had a bit more confidence and knew what I was doing. The person I am and traits that I have that makes me a good parent was as much in evidence when I was younger as it is today. I've raised one to adult hood who has turned out just fine so I guess we were doing something right.

One eyed Jack

After coming out with some classic clangers like this:

Montroseee wrote: »

No it's not, they make a conscious decision to have children young so it comes back on them. It's not right to rely on family members or the state when working people like myself have to fork out 200 euro weekly for childcare.

And this:

Montroseee wrote: »

I've lived in Inchicore for 20 years of my life. I don't care for political correctness and will call it like it is, a welfare area. Plenty of families on the social have 2 cars/holidays/nice clothes etc. etc. It just doesn't make sense for benefits to be able to fund that lifestyle.

And this:

Montroseee wrote: »

I'm surprised the level of offence taken by some people here, must be the time of day :rolleyes:. I got chatting to a good few parents both before and after.

I think you need to really listen to yourself -

Montroseee wrote: »

We just have to take your word for this which means very little on the internet.

For the love of God, stop digging already! :pac:

Montroseee

eviltwin wrote: »

What it all comes down to is the OP thinks having a baby at a certain age means you will be a lousy parent. Granted there are things that you don't have at that age that can be an issue but its not insurmountable. I've had one child in my teens and one in my 30's and honestly I can't see much of a difference between me as a parent beyond the fact with no 2 I had a bit more confidence and knew what I was doing. The person I am that makes me a good person was as much in evidence when I was younger as it is today. I've raised one to adult hood who has turned out just fine so I guess we were doing something right.

It's obviously not a certainty, just more likely IMO. It's the correlation between the lifestyle choice of having kids early here and the social welfare system that I'm particularly interested in. In many countries in Europe you get f*ck all in welfare compared to here, would people be less likely to make the choice of having kids very young if they got much less?

allibastor

Montroseee wrote: »

It's obviously not a certainty, just more likely IMO. It's the correlation between the lifestyle choice of having kids early here and the social welfare system that I'm particularly interested in. In many countries in Europe you get f*ck all in welfare compared to here, would people be less likely to make the choice of having kids very young if they got much less?

Less likely maybe, but it is not always a certainty.
You may get more children put into adoption as a result more so, as happens in the states.

In Ireland we still have very strict controls in terms of birth control and affordability of same. I think that is more of an issue to be spoken about.

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

It's obviously not a certainty, just more likely IMO. It's the correlation between the lifestyle choice of having kids early here and the social welfare system that I'm particularly interested in. In many countries in Europe you get f*ck all in welfare compared to here, would people be less likely to make the choice of having kids very young if they got much less?

Well once again I have to raise my earlier point. If you have so much of an issue with young parents on welfare why don't you support them being educated to exit welfare and start earning their own money? Otherwise not much is going to change.

ETA: being on welfare doesn't make you a lousy parent, I really do take issue with that. Who are you to judge someone for being a bad parent simply because they are in receipt of SW. You're attitude really sucks and I hope you don't pass that crap onto your own kids.

Tony EH

Oh great, another "ivory tower" thread.

Montroseee

eviltwin wrote: »

Well once again I have to raise my earlier point. If you have so much of an issue with young parents on welfare why don't you support them being educated to exit welfare and start earning their own money? Otherwise not much is going to change.

ETA: being on welfare doesn't make you a lousy parent, I really do take issue with that. Who are you to judge someone for being a bad parent simply because they are in receipt of SW. You're attitude really sucks and I hope you don't pass that crap onto your own kids.

Where are u getting this from, I never said simply being on welfare=bad parent.

sashafierce

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eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

Where are u getting this from, I never said simply being on welfare=bad parent.

You quoted my post where I said you must think being on welfare makes someone a lousy parent and answered with "its not a certainty but makes it more likely". I wonder where you come up with that logic.

How Soon Is Now

Montroseee wrote: »

It's obviously not a certainty, just more likely IMO. It's the correlation between the lifestyle choice of having kids early here and the social welfare system that I'm particularly interested in. In many countries in Europe you get f*ck all in welfare compared to here, would people be less likely to make the choice of having kids very young if they got much less?

You know some people choose to have kids at a younger age because they honestly want them right ? They also feel because there younger they will be able to enjoy it more and give more effort. Why should someone wait till there ''older'' if they dont want to ?

In most cases its got nothing to do with how much money there being payed. Im not saying theres no one out there who does it because there is but its annoying when everyone gets tared with the same brush.

When my girlfriend was pregnant she was around 22. She hasn't been able to find proper work over the last few years cause of lack of experience but that's another issue.....

Anyway the social welfare wanted to talk to her because she was pregnant and to sort out how she would be payed etc. The first thing that was said to her was i take it your claiming lone parent !?

The bloody dole themselves even assumed she was just another single mother sponger just because of her age and where shes from.

Thats the kind of attitudes people have now a days. People just assume things.

sashafierce

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Sclosages

Montroseee wrote: »

I've always wondered about the relationship between early parenthood and social class/benefits. A while back I was living in Inchicore and upon arriving at my daughter's parent teacher meeting, it felt like I had just rocked up to a 21st such was the average age of the parents present. Given that it is possible to live quite a decent lifestyle through exploitation of the benefits system, which I have witnessed first hand, it begs the question of how much influence does this on people having children in their late teens/early twenties. I really don't think the vast majority of that age group have enough life experience or are fit to be parents, I don't like the way it is such a viable lifestyle choice.

I guess you felt a little old and out of place?

steddyeddy

Shenshen wrote: »

Is that really only down to exploitation of the benefits system?

I would imagine it's more to do with education levels. If you leave the education system earlier and start your working life earlier, there is no reason why you would delay having children.

Delaying having children only really makes sense if you are going to college, university, post-grad courses etc. and then want to get a foothold in your profession before allowing time off for the children.

Not only that. Some schools are muck and don't offer great assistance to some people. It's a cycle. Some teachers are crap and produce crap students, the crap students lead some people to conclude that some people don't care about education and this leads to crap teachers trying even less.

How Soon Is Now

sashafierce wrote: »

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It makes sense yes but its not always one hundred percent possible right away. You can work towards things as well. As im doing myself.

allibastor

I know people who wait till they are older to have kids, and while they may be more financially stable they tend to work longer hours and not be around as much.
They also tend to be tired more easily. I have a cousin who was 41 when he had his first child. The kid is now 5 and the cousin is knackered when they play as he is now 46!

I could do backflips for my eldest when she was small and could do most other things.

sashafierce

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Montroseee

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

You know some people choose to have kids at a younger age because they honestly want them right ? They also feel because there younger they will be able to enjoy it more and give more effort. Why should someone wait till there ''older'' if they dont want to ?

In most cases its got nothing to do with how much money there being payed. Im not saying theres no one out there who does it because there is but its annoying when everyone gets tared with the same brush.

When my girlfriend was pregnant she was around 22. She hasn't been able to find proper work over the last few years cause of lack of experience but that's another issue.....

Anyway the social welfare wanted to talk to her because she was pregnant and to sort out how she would be payed etc. The first thing that was said to her was i take it your claiming lone parent !?

The bloody dole themselves even assumed she was just another single mother sponger just because of her age and where shes from.

Thats the kind of attitudes people have now a days. People just assume things.

That's fine until it comes to who pays for the child, if they are fair enough. We all have wants but it's turning to the state to pay the bills for children that I don't like, where is the personal responsibility? Is the child possibly just a means to end?

sashafierce

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sashafierce

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Montroseee

sashafierce wrote: »

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Of course it does, I don't see how you can credibly argue the contrary. Stability and security is key when raising a child and is something that is generally not associated with youth.

steddyeddy

Montroseee wrote: »

That's fine until it comes to who pays for the child, if they are fair enough. We all have wants but it's turning to the state to pay the bills for children that I don't like, where is the personal responsibility? Is the child possibly just a means to end?

But can you understand why people in crappy situations would see that as a viable escape? I don't agree with it in the slightest but I can understand it.

eviltwin

Montroseee wrote: »

That's fine until it comes to who pays for the child, if they are fair enough. We all have wants but it's turning to the state to pay the bills for children that I don't like, where is the personal responsibility? Is the child possibly just a means to end?

Do you read your own posts? You're complaining about people on welfare with kids, not exclusive to young people btw, but you also don't agree with schemes to help these people get back to work. Can you not see the disconnect there?

Tasden

Montroseee wrote: »

That's fine until it comes to who pays for the child, if they are fair enough. We all have wants but it's turning to the state to pay the bills for children that I don't like, where is the personal responsibility? Is the child possibly just a means to end?

So you're basing your assumptions on the parents at the pt meeting. That means the child is at least 4/5 years old. That's 4/5 years in which anything could have happened. How do you know what financial position the person was in when they decided to have the child? Or did each of them tell you their life story as well as the list of benefits they're on, holidays they've had, and cars they drive?

How Soon Is Now

Montroseee wrote: »

That's fine until it comes to who pays for the child, if they are fair enough. We all have wants but it's turning to the state to pay the bills for children that I don't like, where is the personal responsibility? Is the child possibly just a means to end?

The people who do that are of all ages not just young ones.

Id imagine the reason a lot of people are having kids younger now is because its become part of society and people tend to continue trends without even trying to!.

Ill be 29 in a few months my girlfriend is younger but where together more then four years and engaged so we both felt it was the right time to have a child.

Where renting without any allowances and all going to plan i should be back working myself this week.

If people choose to live off the state its basically down to them not caring and being happy to be wasters. Its got nothing to do with age etc.

Theres loads of younger people having familys and some are on the dole but not all of them are on it by choice and they actually are working towards getting off it.