Fully Baked Left Wing Vegan Cookies

pH

silverharp wrote: »

That's that Saudi guy right? Mary's conception by the holy ghost is marginally more believable :pac:

And yet he was acquitted by a British jury, but it's OK - people have the answer, if only he'd have been dragged along to a "no means no" consent class this obviously wouldn't have happened - the fact that thousands of innocent non-rapist have to be humiliated and belittled in a re-education camp would be a small price to pay for preventing such terrible crimes.

Kev W

pH wrote: »

And yet he was acquitted by a British jury, but it's OK - people have the answer, if only he'd have been dragged along to a "no means no" consent class this obviously wouldn't have happened - the fact that thousands of innocent non-rapist have to be humiliated and belittled in a re-education camp would be a small price to pay for preventing such terrible crimes.

Consent classes won't stop anyone from dragging someone down an alleyway and raping them but they may prevent cases where consent had not been given but the rapist believed that it had, or that it was "close enough" to consent, or that accepting a drink qualifies as consent, or agreeing to a date qualifies as consent, or cases where they believe you can't rape someone if you're married to them or in a relationship with them.

As has been explained ad nauseam.

But keep bashing away at that straw man.

pH

Kev W wrote: »

But keep bashing away at that straw man.

I'm not sure where you see a straw man here - this is exactly the kind of "woman goes back to man's place - some sexual encounter occurs" rape that consent class is meant to stop.

I suggest that maybe you keep flogging away on your dead horse.

Kev W

pH wrote: »

I'm not sure where you see a straw man here - this is exactly the kind of "woman goes back to man's place - some sexual encounter occurs" rape that consent class is meant to stop.

I suggest that maybe you keep flogging away on your dead horse.

Did he attend one of those classes? Because if he did and it didn't work you'd have a point.

Bonniedog

The doctrinaire left - as opposed to worldly wise trade union/broader labour movement types who are actually working class! - has always been intolerant.

If these gimps had been born in China or Kampuchea or the USSR at the right time, the rugby team and the Nietzsche Society would have been tortured and murdered, so the 'deviants' may thank their stars they live in Britain in the 21st century :-)

pH

Kev W wrote: »

Did he attend one of those classes? Because if he did and it didn't work you'd have a point.

Yes, because telling people not to commit crimes is by far the best way to solve any crime problem - once you've told people not to do it, they never ever do it again.

"consent classes" are a nonsense solution, they won't change anything, everyone who knows anything about crime understands this, I presume this applies to those clamouring for these "classes", if these rapes are indeed a major problem (and there's no good evidence they are), then all this does is get in the way of good advice which would actually help prevent them.

Kev W

pH wrote: »

Yes, because telling people not to commit crimes is by far the best way to solve any crime problem - once you've told people not to do it, they never ever do it again.

"consent classes" are a nonsense solution, they won't change anything, everyone who knows anything about crime understands this, I presume this applies to those clamouring for these "classes", if these rapes are indeed a major problem (and there's no good evidence they are), then all this does is get in the way of good advice which would actually help prevent them.

How so?

Bonniedog

pH wrote: »

Yes, because telling people not to commit crimes is by far the best way to solve any crime problem - once you've told people not to do it, they never ever do it again.

"consent classes" are a nonsense solution, they won't change anything, everyone who knows anything about crime understands this, I presume this applies to those clamouring for these "classes", if these rapes are indeed a major problem (and there's no good evidence they are), then all this does is get in the way of good advice which would actually help prevent them.

I have friend who is in Washington and US universities have been plagued by this sort of thing.

There have been one or two high profile cases of rapes on campus by other students but vast majority of sexual assaults in Washinton on students are by non students who prey on students to rob and rape them.

I doubt English universities in big cities are any different.

So perhaps the students union ought to do some outreach and invite the local feral predators along to the consent classes ?

pH

Bonniedog wrote: »

I have friend who is in Washington and US universities have been plagued by this sort of thing.

There have been one or two high profile cases of rapes on campus by other students but vast majority of sexual assaults in Washinton on students are by non students who prey on students to rob and rape them.

I doubt English universities in big cities are any different.

So perhaps the students union ought to do some outreach and invite the local feral predators along to the consent classes ?

Obviously that wouldn't work, because "consent classes" are about a power-struggle within universities, and nothing signals a "victory" more than making everyone sit through an hour of your dogma.

Christy42

Shrap wrote: »

I take your point about there always going to be people out there with bad intentions, but also there are always people out there who need to understand the very simple guideline demonstrated in that ad, but they don't (for whatever reason).

This will not be comfortable reading for anyone so I'm using spoilers. The time I was raped,

the man I had willingly gone into his bedroom with took my repeated "No" and "Stop" and my struggling as a kinky role-play of victim. I actually wasn't pretending or playing, and as he continued to hurt me quite badly, I froze and stopped fighting back. When I started crying, he said "Why do they always cry?". He seemed genuinely perplexed as to why, when I had willingly gone to bed with him, I was now suddenly crying (that was when he stopped and I managed to leave).

Some people really do need very basic training in "No" and "stop" meaning don't go further.

These are things which make me think they may be a good idea. I have no idea how a man so thick made it to adulthood. For a while I presumed this type of thing didn't occur without malicious intent as I don't know how anyone could not realise this is rape.

Classes on consent won't stop malicious rape but it may stop this sort of thing. I can't imagine it matters if it happens frequently, it has happened and has a quick and easy solution. Why not fix it? University still seems far too late for this to happen as not everyone goes to university and sex can happen before you reach university age anyway. Thus school seems more logical. It should be easy to feet a standard course together that doesn't overly refer to the attacker as a specific gender that gets the point across. Obviously most people won't need it but it will get to those that do need it and won't hurt anyone. I would like to remind people that I am in favour of everyone getting this course, not just the boys.

silverharp

Shrap wrote: »

I take your point about there always going to be people out there with bad intentions, but also there are always people out there who need to understand the very simple guideline demonstrated in that ad, but they don't (for whatever reason).

This will not be comfortable reading for anyone so I'm using spoilers. The time I was raped,

the man I had willingly gone into his bedroom with took my repeated "No" and "Stop" and my struggling as a kinky role-play of victim. I actually wasn't pretending or playing, and as he continued to hurt me quite badly, I froze and stopped fighting back. When I started crying, he said "Why do they always cry?". He seemed genuinely perplexed as to why, when I had willingly gone to bed with him, I was now suddenly crying (that was when he stopped and I managed to leave).

Some people really do need very basic training in "No" and "stop" meaning don't go further.

I've no problem with some of these things being discussed in schools. Where this guy was coming from I have no idea, its not a normal way of thinking. it reminds me of how some paedophiles believe that children consent to what happens.

Anything that is done has to be in the context of not pathologising boys or men and giving equal time for girls to take steps to be responsible for their own safety. Thats my parental approach anyway, 1% or 2% of the population are always going to be sociopaths and they will always be immune to any amount of programming.

robindch

MrPudding

robindch wrote: »

This video, apparently from Thames Valley Police, just showed up in my fb feed - so I imagine that it's a legal perspective of how consent works in practice.

But regardless of whether it is or not, it's certainly the clearest and simplest description of consent that I've ever seen - comments?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZwvrxVavnQ

Just got a chance to watch this. It's actually not a bad explanation, but unfortunately does not cover the trickiest aspect of consent. That is where consent is apparently given, but that consent is not valid in law.

So where a women is so drunk, or otherwise mentally impaired, that the law considers her incapable of giving valid consent. That is the tricky one.

MrP

silverharp

canteen food is racist in Oberlin College

http://europe.newsweek.com/oberlin-college-students-protest-culturally-appropriative-dining-hall-food-407466?rm=eu

Students at Oberlin College are in an uproar about dining hall food. And no, it’s not because of the “mystery meat.”

In an article published last month in the campus newspaper, The Oberlin Review, students have deemed the university’s attempts at serving international cuisines—particularly of Asian nations and cultures—appropriative to the point of being patently racist. “This uninformed representation of cultural dishes has been noted by a multitude of students, many of who[m] have expressed concern over the gross manipulation of traditional recipes,” the paper wrote.

Students interviewed for the article, hailing from Vietnam, China and Malaysia, among others, said they were disgusted with Bon Appétit, the food service management company under contract with Oberlin, and its attempt to appease students’ palates as well as increasing the variety of food into its rotation. The worst offense was the sushi bar at Dascomb Dining Hall, which, according to Tomoyo Joshi, a Japanese junior at Oberlin, was appropriative due to the lack of fresh fish and grossly undercooked rice.

Subscribe now - Free phone/tablet charger worth over $60
“When you’re cooking a country’s dish for other people, including ones who have never tried the original dish before, you’re also representing the meaning of the dish as well as its culture,” she told the Review. “So if people not from that heritage take food, modify it and serve it as ‘authentic,’ it is appropriative.”

Since the article was published, Michile Gross, director of business operations and dining services at Oberlin, acknowledged students’ concerns, and told the paper: “Maybe what we should do is describe the dish for what it is as opposed to characterizing it with a specific name.”

Late last month, dining services met with representative from the Chinese, South Asian and Vietnamese student associations, in hopes of collaborating on dining options in a mutually beneficial way. According to an article published in the Review in early December, dining services is said to have listened attentively, eventually reaching a compromise with the cultural student associations by attempting to improve “the naming process of meals by not associating excessively modified dishes with specific cultures,” while being more sensitive to making dishes “culturally appropriate.”

MrPudding

silverharp wrote: »

canteen food is racist in Oberlin College

http://europe.newsweek.com/oberlin-college-students-protest-culturally-appropriative-dining-hall-food-407466?rm=eu

That's a joke, isn't it? Isn't it? Please... Please let it be a joke.

MrP

The Randy Riverbeast

silverharp wrote: »

canteen food is racist in Oberlin College

http://europe.newsweek.com/oberlin-college-students-protest-culturally-appropriative-dining-hall-food-407466?rm=eu

Ive had a few meals from restaurants were even I was offended that they called that muck food.

silverharp

MrPudding wrote: »

That's a joke, isn't it? Isn't it? Please... Please let it be a joke.

MrP

the canteen is the new front line.....

it gets worse, I think?


http://www.theguardian.com/education/2015/dec/18/harvard-apologizes-holiday-placements-student-backlash

Harvard apologizes for handing out social justice talking points for holidays
‘Holiday placemats for social justice’ advised students on how to talk to their families about Syrian refugees, police killings and other complex social issues


Harvard officials were forced to apologize to university members this week after issuing color-coded placemats on campus providing students with scripted answers for complex social issues.

Students took issue with the campaign, stating that one of the world’s leading academic institutions should not be telling them “what to think and what to say”.

The “holiday placemats for social justice” advised students on how to talk to their families over the holidays about Syrian refugees, police killings, student activism and the controversy over the “house master” title which the University recently stopped using.he placemats were issued by the Harvard Office for Equity, Diversity, and Inclusion, together with the freshmen dean’s office, and were divided into four sections with potential questions and how to answer them.

looksee

silverharp wrote: »

canteen food is racist in Oberlin College

http://europe.newsweek.com/oberlin-college-students-protest-culturally-appropriative-dining-hall-food-407466?rm=eu

I have some sympathy with international students complaining about their national food being messed about and then ascribed to their country. However it is not international news, nor even news of any sort, it is the kind of thing that could and should be dealt with on campus with no fuss.

It is good to see students coming out in support of people who are genuinely unfairly treated but the water is being muddied by the infantile complaining of those who take offence at pretty much anything. With their self-absorbed wittering they are trying to create a seriously controlled society that, if they get it, they will not like at all.

robindch

looksee wrote: »

I have some sympathy with international students complaining about their national food being messed about and then ascribed to their country.

It's fair enough to complain about somebody making a hash of one's national cuisine.

However, the complaint here seems to go well beyond that - specifically, that screwing up sushi is "appropriative" - a word I've never seen before - but from Ms Joshi's comment, seems to imply that it's right and proper to be personally offended.

looksee

robindch wrote: »

It's fair enough to complain about somebody making a hash of one's national cuisine.

However, the complaint here seems to go well beyond that - specifically, that screwing up sushi is "appropriative" - a word I've never seen before - but from Ms Joshi's comment, seems to imply that it's right and proper to be personally offended.

Yes appropriative is a good word. Whatever it means. But this is what I meant when I referred to 'infantile complaining of those who take offence at pretty much anything'.

robindch

looksee wrote: »

But this is what I meant when I referred to 'infantile complaining of those who take offence at pretty much anything'.

Agreed What's interesting for me here is less the silly complaint, but the invention of a word to denote and legitimize a new form of offence-taking.

And from Ms Joshi's excellent standard of English, I can't help but wonder whether she's a recently-arrived Japanese student who's never been exposed to US culture or food, or somebody with a slightly less compelling justification for the offence.

silverharp

robindch wrote: »

Agreed What's interesting for me here is less the silly complaint, but the invention of a word to denote and legitimize a new form of offence-taking.

And from Ms Joshi's excellent standard of English, I can't help but wonder whether she's a recently-arrived Japanese student who's never been exposed to US culture or food, or somebody with a slightly less compelling justification for the offence.

Cultural appropriation seems to be a thing, remember all the holloween stuff couple of months ago that dressing up in an Indian conlstume was appropriation . then there was the if you eat Mexican food but don't like Mexicans that was appropriation.

pH

robindch wrote: »

Agreed What's interesting for me here is less the silly complaint, but the invention of a word to denote and legitimize a new form of offence-taking.

And from Ms Joshi's excellent standard of English, I can't help but wonder whether she's a recently-arrived Japanese student who's never been exposed to US culture or food, or somebody with a slightly less compelling justification for the offence.

It's funny because the last Japanese "cultural appropriation" nonsense before this was over wearing of kimonos as an add-on to a joint Japanese/US art exhibition “Looking East: Western Artists and the Allure of Japan”.

As expected given it was a jointly organised by a Japanese broadcaster, there was bewilderment at how powerful the offence taking culture had become in the US, and how despite many many Japanese people saying basically WTF - let them do whatever they want with a kimono, it took mere days for a few protesters and a social media outrage mob to shut the thing down.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/08/04/commentary/japan-commentary/kimono-cultural-appropriation

Apparently "Everyday Feminism" recently published a guide for white imperialists on how to avoid cultural appropriation when eating out - Jerry Coyne did a write up about it:

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/11/23/now-eating-ethnic-food-is-cultural-appropriation/

The key here is to make turn all complaints, however minor, into "taking offence", because as we've seen with safe spaces, trigger warnings and no-platforms, once you've become offended you automatically win and whatever offended you has to be banished.

So it seems the Irish have been doing it wrong all these years, instead of grumbling about how foreign Guinness doesn't taste the same unless it's made with James' Gate Liffey water - really Guinness drinkers should have been "offended" at the cultural appropriation of their drink. Although to be fair I'm not sure if "Irishness" has enough victim points left to pull off cultural appropriation, but a heartfelt twitter campaign about the quality of Irish stew being served around the world would allow us to find out quickly enough.

MrPudding

pH wrote: »

It's funny because the last Japanese "cultural appropriation" nonsense before this was over wearing of kimonos as an add-on to a joint Japanese/US art exhibition “Looking East: Western Artists and the Allure of Japan”.

As expected given it was a jointly organised by a Japanese broadcaster, there was bewilderment at how powerful the offence taking culture had become in the US, and how despite many many Japanese people saying basically WTF - let them do whatever they want with a kimono, it took mere days for a few protesters and a social media outrage mob to shut the thing down.

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/opinion/2015/08/04/commentary/japan-commentary/kimono-cultural-appropriation

Apparently "Everyday Feminism" recently published a guide for white imperialists on how to avoid cultural appropriation when eating out - Jerry Coyne did a write up about it:

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpress.com/2015/11/23/now-eating-ethnic-food-is-cultural-appropriation/

The key here is to make turn all complaints, however minor, into "taking offence", because as we've seen with safe spaces, trigger warnings and no-platforms, once you've become offended you automatically win and whatever offended you has to be banished.

So it seems the Irish have been doing it wrong all these years, instead of grumbling about how foreign Guinness doesn't taste the same unless it's made with James' Gate Liffey water - really Guinness drinkers should have been "offended" at the cultural appropriation of their drink. Although to be fair I'm not sure if "Irishness" has enough victim points left to pull off cultural appropriation, but a heartfelt twitter campaign about the quality of Irish stew being served around the world would allow us to find out quickly enough.

OK, all these people taking offence at stupid fcuking things, or taking offence on behalf of other people really, really fcuking offends me. Where does that leave us?

MrP

silverharp

MrPudding wrote: »

OK, all these people taking offence at stupid fcuking things, or taking offence on behalf of other people really, really fcuking offends me. Where does that leave us?

MrP

Universities are poison if you are stuck in some pointless liberal arts course. Announcing to the world that you have clocked up a 100k in student loans for a gender studies degree is going to work against you in the job market.

looksee

So let me see. If furrin people come here and wear the clothing they are accustomed to in their country of birth, they should integrate. If they wear western clothing they are appropriating western clothing. Even worse, if I go to India and wear a sari in an effort to integrate I am appropriating Indian clothing.

Odd then that my daughter was invited to an Indian wedding in the US and the women (aunts mostly) were delighted - indeed insisted - on dressing her in a salwar kameez with all the makeup etc. She looked great(in spite of having a very fair skinned Irish complexion). One of them stayed with her throughout the ceremony to explain what was happening and make sure she didn't feel left out, and they all had a ball. Absolutely no one took offence at anything.

robindch

MrPudding wrote: »

OK, all these people taking offence at stupid fcuking things, or taking offence on behalf of other people really, really fcuking offends me. Where does that leave us?

Offended, I suppose.

Can't imagine that'll make it stop though.

pH

looksee wrote: »

So let me see. If furrin people come here and wear the clothing they are accustomed to in their country of birth, they should integrate. If they wear western clothing they are appropriating western clothing. Even worse, if I go to India and wear a sari in an effort to integrate I am appropriating Indian clothing.

Absolutely not! only white people can be guilty of Cultural Appropriation - for example an Asian person who excels at the violin and loves playing classical European music on it is guilty of nothing.

looksee wrote: »

Odd then that my daughter was invited to an Indian wedding in the US and the women (aunts mostly) were delighted - indeed insisted - on dressing her in a salwar kameez with all the makeup etc. She looked great(in spite of having a very fair skinned Irish complexion). One of them stayed with her throughout the ceremony to explain what was happening and make sure she didn't feel left out, and they all had a ball. Absolutely no one took offence at anything.

That's all very well, but how do you know that a lot of well-off western university students didn't get very offended on their behalf? They're the people whose feelings matter in these cases.

The majority of Mexicans seem to have no problem with anyone, anywhere tucking into a burrito or even wearing a Sombrero to a Mexican themed party where tequila might be served - the people being offended by all this are entitled left-wing "progressives".
http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=6873

boy98

Spanking = Domestic Abuse
bocktherobber.com/2015/12/reasonable-chastisement-no-longer-defence-for-assaulting-children/

Parenthood is "...an accident of procreation",
" 'smack', 'tap', 'pat' it all comes down to the same thing. A person of superior strength imposing their will on a weaker individual through physical force."
"violence is all about the humiliation"

Nodin

boy98 wrote: »

Spanking = Domestic Abuse
bocktherobber.com/2015/12/reasonable-chastisement-no-longer-defence-for-assaulting-children/

Parenthood is "...an accident of procreation",
" 'smack', 'tap', 'pat' it all comes down to the same thing. A person of superior strength imposing their will on a weaker individual through physical force."
"violence is all about the humiliation"

??????