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Lurkio

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Because destruction of cultural heritage and attempted eradication of an indigenous language is to be selectively applauded depending on the victims race..

Removal of the trappings of apartheid and its regime is akin to the removal of statues of Lenin from Poland or the changing of place names here.

JPNelsforearm wrote:

Talk about quote mining. He was quoting me, and I was joking.

My error, but as hes said similar before its not the hardest mistake to make.

JPNelsforearm wrote:

What definition of racism? Yours? Where biological facts ...........

Racism with a pseudo-scientific "justification" and racism of the "I don't like 'em' variety are equally - yes - racist. One just takes longer to type out.

silverharp

Lurkio wrote: »

....that was America....

all this nonsense with "white privilege" is US originated as well , it seems like Africans have to soak up every wave of garbage ideas coming out of the US be is evangelical Christianity or leftist race baiting

JPNelsforearm

Lurkio wrote: »

Removal of the trappings of apartheid and its regime is akin to the removal of statues of Lenin from Poland or the changing of place names here.

Which is equally terrible, on par with ISIS, eradicating art and sculpture, place names, history, is vandalism, plain and simple, its abhorrent. Going further and eradicating a language in the case of Afrikaans, well, what would you call that? What would you call the successful eradication of Gaelige? Progress? Ní ceapaim.

My error, but as hes said similar before its not the hardest mistake to make.


Racism with a pseudo-scientific "justification" and racism of the "I don't like 'em' variety are equally - yes - racist. One just takes longer to type out.

"pseudo scientific", you mean citing actual science and history. Racism is an illogical ideology, but so is its counterpart, earnest western anti-racism(in its modern"everything is racist" guise), you are so desperate for a utopia that cannot and will never exist, that you are prepared to sacrifice scientific fact and independence upon the alter of political correctness, in a denial of biological realities.

Lurkio

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Which is equally terrible, on par with ISIS, eradicating art and sculpture, place names, history, is vandalism, plain and simple, its abhorrent..

Not really when you consider who and what was being commemorated. Personally I'd take a less than tolerant view of a statue of Cromwell or the like in my vicinity and I fail to see why the equivalent should be tolerated in SA should they wish to rid themselves of it.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Going further and eradicating a language in the case of Afrikaans, well, what would you call that? What would you call the successful eradication of Gaelige? Progress? Ní ceapaim...

Nobody is eradicating a language. Afrikaans was forced on the population en masse for a very long time and they wish to have it out of their lives. No one will be going around following Boers to make sure they don't speak it.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

"pseudo scientific", you mean citing actual science and history. Racism is an illogical ideology, but so is its counterpart, earnest western anti-racism(in its modern"everything is racist" guise), you are so desperate for a utopia that cannot and will never exist, that you are prepared to sacrifice scientific fact and independence upon the alter of political correctness, in a denial of biological realities.

It's very odd to me that you decry things being referred to as racist while at the same time claiming racism is a 'biological reality'.

As for "earnest western anti-racism" that's really nothing to me. I'm unsure precisely what a "micro aggression" is supposed to be (and lack the interest to bother to try and understand) and I find some of the nitpicking that goes on in American colleges by turn pathetic and amusing. Overall my impression is that students want to protest, unlike recent decades, but don't want to do so in a way which is genuinely "risky". Thus a lot of it is inward looking campus based 'activist masturbation' which gives a great deal of those participating the ability to claim "radicalism" while doing nothing to affect the real world or their future careers. I can't see a Kent state anytime in the future.

JPNelsforearm

Destroying a statue of Cromwell or indeed Nelson is cultural vandalism. There is no excuse for it, Cromwell is long dead and British colonialism over but for the six counties. Destroying a statue wont change the past, its ridiculous, you are just depriving people of a work of art and a piece of history, for no reason.


They are banning Afrikaans as a medium of teaching, forcing Afrikaans only schools to teach in English. Trying to destroy the language in addition to the attempted and continuing destruction of Afrikaans history and culture. the same thing happened in Ireland under British rule, in fact the same thing happened under Apartheid with local languages, wrong headed and actually racist policies are wrong all of the time, not just depending on the race enforcing them.

Lurkio

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

Destroying a statue of Cromwell or indeed Nelson is cultural vandalism. There is no excuse for it, Cromwell is long dead and British colonialism over but for the six counties. Destroying a statue wont change the past, its ridiculous, you are just depriving people of a work of art and a piece of history, for no reason..

O I'd prefer if they were moved. However if they destroy them its their own business. "no reason" is rather amusing, considering the treatment of the African people.

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

They are banning Afrikaans as a medium of teaching, forcing Afrikaans only schools to teach in English. Trying to destroy the language in addition to the attempted and continuing destruction of Afrikaans history and culture. the same thing happened in Ireland under British rule, in fact the same thing happened under Apartheid with local languages, wrong headed and actually racist policies are wrong all of the time, not just depending on the race enforcing them.

You might provide a link or two so we both know precisely what you're referring to.

JPNelsforearm

Lurkio wrote: »

O I'd prefer if they were moved. However if they destroy them its their own business. "no reason" is rather amusing, considering the treatment of the African people.

And Irish people were treated the same, lets not pretend Africa and Africans are some exception to the general ****ness of human history. Cultural destruction, be it Roman buildings and statues by christians and muslims, or Ex Soviet states removing the trappings of communism is just that, destruction.
Its like that statue they are always vandalising in Fairview, sure they ostensibly have some political reason or whatever, but its just ignorant thuggery at the end of the day, there is an ugly ode to the vacuous consumerism of the Celtic Tiger in the center of O'Connell street they could target:), instead they target a small statue of a dead guy in a public park.

You might provide a link or two so we both know precisely what you're referring to.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/ancyl-to-target-afrikaans-only-schools-1863986
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/afriforum-afrikaans-schools-under-attack-1213281

https://twitter.com/ANCYL_Tukkies/status/704024664994127876

Lurkio

JPNelsforearm wrote: »

http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/ancyl-to-target-afrikaans-only-schools-1863986
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/afriforum-afrikaans-schools-under-attack-1213281

https://twitter.com/ANCYL_Tukkies/status/704024664994127876

I'll deal with your notions of preserving monuments to a nations oppressors in a bit. Back to education - from your first link

"Pretoria - The gloves are off against public schools in Pretoria east that still use Afrikaans on all their written materials, thereby excluding those who did not speak the language from getting quality education closer to their homes."

"Masanabo said they would embark on a campaign to secure an equitable dispensation with regards to language policy at public schools."

"He said the result of the single-medium approach was a situation where many non-Afrikaans speaking pupils, particularly blacks, Indian and English-speaking white pupils, couldn’t find spaces in local schools. Masanabo said the youth league would be agitating for a rapid change in language policy at schools in the region"
http://www.iol.co.za/news/politics/ancyl-to-target-afrikaans-only-schools-1863986

If you got "eradicate the language" out of that you must have been using the letters to make up different words tbh.

Link number two

"AfriForum has announced that it is launching a campaign “to counter government's renewed attacks on Afrikaans as medium of education in schools”.
The campaign, Red Afrikaanse Skole (Save Afrikaans Schools), comes after all three of the schools in Fochville that still offer Afrikaans-medium education had been informed by the Gauteng Department of Education that, at the start of the 2012 school year, they will be forced to accommodate groups of English-speaking learners, the civil rights group said. "
http://www.iol.co.za/news/south-africa/gauteng/afriforum-afrikaans-schools-under-attack-1213281

This sounds far more similar to non-catholics and schools in the Irish state than anything else.

Your third link is nothing radical either, and differs from the rest in that it refers to third level, where Afrikaans is the primary language through which all are taught in many places. As a legacy of apartheid there is still little accommodation of African language speakers, or English speakers for that matter. This is a process which takes time.

You seem somewhat unaware of the constitutional protections of language in the consititution as well. The next time an associate tells you something that you want to believe, you might be better advised to make sure its objectively true rather than taking their word for it, certainly on potentially controversial issues such as this.

FA Hayek

jackofalltrades wrote: »

I know it's an older topic but just the thread back on track.

From the Spectator.
Also covered here.


Here's some of what the racist had to say in his defence.
I love the way he's bound by the rules of Identity politics and has to minimise the fact that she's working class.


He then went into full identity politics mode and brought up the patriarchy.

Christ, what an asshole. Is that guy for real?

silverharp

A lot of interest on line about the American Humanist Association going "sjw" , they seem to be parsing their organisation up. its not good enough to be a humanist you will have to be a black humanist etc. which I would have thought was against the spirit of humanism. How long before the organisation blows itself apart in infighting , no platforming and micro aggressions?


http://americanhumanist.org/news/details/2016-05-humanist-group-launches-initiatives-for-racial-justi

orubiru

silverharp wrote: »

A lot of interest on line about the American Humanist Association going "sjw" , they seem to be parsing their organisation up. its not good enough to be a humanist you will have to be a black humanist etc. which I would have thought was against the spirit of humanism. How long before the organisation blows itself apart in infighting , no platforming and micro aggressions?

Not long, I'd say.

It's a weird thing because if you consider yourself a humanist, and I think most of us do to some degree, then you already believe in inclusion and equality and acceptance.

It's a bit obvious to say "I'm a humanist and I also believe people in the LGBT community should be treated equally and fairly". Well, duh.

Surely it's impossible to be both a Humanist AND a Racist?

How would you even approach that? "I'm a Humanist but not one of those Racist Humanists, I actually believe that all people should be treated equally".

It makes sense if they are going to start doing a load of activism, I suppose. More likely these new categories will be used to have arguments with each other online.

robindch

silverharp wrote: »

A lot of interest on line about the American Humanist Association going "sjw"

Can't see this ending well. I'm going to give them six months until their first major internal conflict spills over into the public.

JPNelsforearm

silverharp wrote: »

A lot of interest on line about the American Humanist Association going "sjw" , they seem to be parsing their organisation up. its not good enough to be a humanist you will have to be a black humanist etc. which I would have thought was against the spirit of humanism. How long before the organisation blows itself apart in infighting , no platforming and micro aggressions?


http://americanhumanist.org/news/details/2016-05-humanist-group-launches-initiatives-for-racial-justi

robindch

^^^ I think you'll find that all white males are privileged white males to you, sir.

Lurkio

robindch wrote: »

Can't see this ending well. I'm going to give them six months until their first major internal conflict spills over into the public.

They certainly won't survive an international conference here, even if they take the stairs.

MrPudding

orubiru wrote: »

Not long, I'd say.

It's a weird thing because if you consider yourself a humanist, and I think most of us do to some degree, then you already believe in inclusion and equality and acceptance.

It's a bit obvious to say "I'm a humanist and I also believe people in the LGBT community should be treated equally and fairly". Well, duh.

Surely it's impossible to be both a Humanist AND a Racist?

How would you even approach that? "I'm a Humanist but not one of those Racist Humanists, I actually believe that all people should be treated equally".

It makes sense if they are going to start doing a load of activism, I suppose. More likely these new categories will be used to have arguments with each other online.

Well, if one can be a catholic, whilst not believing in god or any of the other rubbish that organisation spouts, I don't see why one could be a racist humanist. After all, who are you to say whether or not someone is a humanist, it is what that person thinks.

MrP

KomradeBishop

So it's ok for Humanists to be advocates for equality (since they are by definition)...just not to actually advocate for equality, right?

Personally, I see it as a positive development, that may help create/secure a more rationally-minded strain of the feminist movement in particular - which the feminist movement is in dire need of, given that the more crazy elements within it, are being used to discredit the wider movement.

A lot of the 'anti-SJW' warrior stuff you see online these days, seems to just be a by-proxy, for engaging in dismissive condescension, towards anyone being even remotely concerned, about issues of social injustice - in order to create a push, for gradually removing such concerns from public discussion (to shift the overton-window, so that such discussion becomes less politically/socially acceptable - to make it seem as if it warrants mocking/dismissal, regardless of the validity of the issues it tries to address).

I think actually, that Humanist groups aren't going far enough - they are far too tied up with issues of social injustice, and they aren't even looking at economic injustice - which used to be their core/main area of concern, earlier on in the Humanist movement - and seems to have been watered-down and eventually dropped entirely, in order to make the movement more 'PC'/politically-palatable (most of the time when the term 'PC' is used, it attempts to refer to a left-wing exclusion of a right-wing idea - this is an example of an exclusion of a predominantly left-wing idea, of economic injustice).

robindch

Waterford Whispers charges in, all guns blazing, where others fear to tread. Surprisingly, there's only one comment at the end of the article - I'm wondering whether large numbers have been deleted, or whether the article has sunk like a hammer in the sea.

Woman Who Hasn’t Been Threatened Online With Rape Wondering What She’s Doing Wrong

http://waterfordwhispersnews.com/2016/05/25/woman-who-hasnt-been-threatened-online-with-rape-wondering-what-shes-doing-wrong

Waterford Whispers wrote:

“I’VE been using Twitter now for about 4 hours now, and unlike many of my female friends I’ve yet to be threatened with rape or violence,” explained avid social media user Karen Higgins.

Karen (19), who is active on a variety of social media platforms noticed she was having a less than full experience online after learning of the abuse and vitriol all of her friends were receiving from men for next to no reason. “After a while you do internalise it, and ask ‘what it is other women who are simply using social media doing that I am not?'” Karen shared, her confidence clearly suffering as a result.

“And it’s not like I haven’t tried. I’ve done all the things that seem to anger anonymous people online. I’ve shared an article about women in business, I’ve commented on a story about female genital mutilation. I even said I enjoy computer games, but nothing. No threats so far. I just want to fit in with other women, I feel like an outcast,” Karen added.

WWN reached out to abhorrent anonymous trolls on the internet for comment, and they were unequivocal in their apologies to Karen.

“We regret that Karen hasn’t felt violated by anonymous strangers online yet, but trust us when we say we’re doing everything in our power to make as many women as possible feel scared and violated to the point that they feel they should just stop giving their opinions in public forums,” @positive_life69 shared with WWN.

“The last thing in the world we would have wanted was Karen to think that we didn’t have a deep seethed hatred for her just because she was a woman. If she could just have a bit of patience, we’ll finally get around to telling her she should be killed and discarded in a river or something like that,” @positive_life69 concluded.

robindch

More seriously, a study of tweets by the Demos think tank in the UK suggests that around half of misogynistic tweets come from women:

http://www.demos.co.uk/press-release/staggering-scale-of-social-media-misogyny-mapped-in-new-demos-study/ (new study)
http://www.demos.co.uk/project/misogyny-on-twitter/ (old study)
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-36380247

JPNelsforearm

" 2014 study from cosmetics firm Dove found that over five million negative tweets were posted about beauty and body image. Four out of five were sent by women."
^Not really surprising, most of the "fat shaming/slut shaming" aimed at high profile "celebs", would come from women, as they are they are they only ones buying the magazines etc. The whole bitchyness stuff is what girls do.


Also

"The research comes as UK MPs - Yvette Cooper, Maria Miller, Stella Creasy, former Liberal Democrat Jo Swinson and Jess Phillips - launch their Reclaim the Internet campaign, in response to growing public concern about the impact of hate speech and abuse on social media.

The campaign has opened an online forum to discuss ways to make the internet less aggressive, sexist, racist and homophobic.

LoL, grow a thicker skin or log off, if you cant handle freedom that is your problem,there are plenty of heavily moderated circle jerks that exist on the internet, stay there.

robindch

The University of East Anglia in Norwich seems have have banned graduates from throwing hats due to an unacceptable risk of avoidable injury:

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/offbeat/university-bans-graduates-from-throwing-hats-due-to-injury-risk-1.2652013

JPNelsforearm

"Black people are incapable of independent thought" - Bernouts

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v56x9xsRJQI

silverharp

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609779/What-spectacle-Student-glasses-floor-pretended-art-people-immediately-started-cooing-taking-pictures.html

What a spectacle: Teen prankster puts his glasses on San Francisco gallery floor claiming they are part of the show - and these discerning art lovers believed it!
TJ Khayatan, 17, and his friends decided to pull the prank after they were left unimpressed by the art at the gallery
Teen laid a pair of glasses on the floor of the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art to see how people would react
TJ claims that the spectacles were immediately swarmed by art lovers who began taking pictures of the 'exhibit'
Prankster's pictures of the public's reaction to his fake artwork have been shared tens of thousand of times online

MrPudding

silverharp wrote: »

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3609779/What-spectacle-Student-glasses-floor-pretended-art-people-immediately-started-cooing-taking-pictures.html

I liking sh1t art a left wing thing?

MrP

Pherekydes

MrPudding wrote: »

I liking sh1t art a left wing thing?

MrP

It was in the Daily Mail, ffs.

silverharp

MrPudding wrote: »

I liking sh1t art a left wing thing?

MrP

I don't know about liking it, but I can just picture that many of producers of I guess what would be called conceptual art are heavily into vegan cookie territory.

JPNelsforearm

MrPudding wrote: »

I liking sh1t art a left wing thing?

MrP

Isnt all degenerate art inherently left wing?:pac:

JPNelsforearm

Milo gloriously triggers Social Justice Warriors at UCLA by having the temerity to speak at a university event.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3hQlskyVBQ

Utter degenerates.

silverharp

^^^^
Milo is doing a lot of triggering lol



Yoga should be banned , huff post ok with everyone here ?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matthew-terrell/white-people-should-be-ba_b_10231840.html

Seriously folks, how hard is this to understand, and how often do we have to keep repeating it: White people are continuing to recreate colonialist violence with their cultural consumption. It has to stop. The only way to end systemic racism and insensitive problematics is to force everyone to stick to their own race when it comes to the clothes we wear, the food we eat, the art we appreciate, and the life we live. Anybody enjoying a cultural product that is not there’s—whether it be a eating traditional meal or wearing a sacred garment—is guilty of cultural appropriation. This violence must be stopped! You should only be allowed to enjoy the culture of your own race.

Whenever I see someone who’s cultural heritage does not descend from the sub-continent of India practicing yoga, I want to scream out at them for their theft of an ancient, sacred practice. The way Westerners have reduced yoga to a trendy form of exercise is just another example of how colonialism continues to plague us. Yoga is a centuries old tradition of mindfulness, with physical practice only one part of the system. Unless you grew up Indian, learning these ancient traditions of your own people, using the sacred objects in their intended manner, you should not be allowed to practice “yoga” as trendy yuppie moms call it.

Pherekydes

silverharp wrote: »

Yoga should be banned , huff post ok with everyone here ?

Some of the comments are suggesting it's satire. Not sure myself; I had a similar enough conversation with my BiL only today. He suggested we (Irish) should only be listening to Irish music.

Multiculturalism? Who wants it?