National Novice

youngrun

Any takers for this next Sunday in Santry ? Imagine there will be big fields in both races going on last couple of years, could be fairly tight on some of the corners ?!

Sacksian

Really, really looking forward to this - have run it the last two years, and despite never running particularly well in it, always enjoy it (afterwards).

I ran in the BHAA race in Santry a couple of weeks ago and, if there are 200-odd running in this, they'll need a fairly long lead-in to the first tight downhill bit because the first 200 meters will probably be fairly hectic at the front. Despite the dry weather, I imagine it will be pretty cut-up after the earlier races too.

Hope they get it right because I think it's a good course for a race like this.

youngrun

You would think 250+ would show up same as Curragh a few years ago, great race, although the pace is frightening, half way would be a good result for me, agree a long run out from start is essential and the bends around the water/lake will be very tricky

Sacksian

Maps are now up for the Novice & Uneven Ages XC.

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/other/Novice_MAP.pdf

It's 5 laps for senior men. Slightly shorter than the BHAA lap, which I think means it misses out one of the inclines from that lap. Would really have preferred 4 laps!

youngrun

4 laps would make more sense, bound to lapping with 5 laps , looks like its about 6500 m not 6k , strange decision.

KielyUnusual

youngrun wrote: »

4 laps would make more sense, bound to lapping with 5 laps , looks like its about 6500 m not 6k , strange decision.

Yea I also observed that half a k increase. None too happy about that . Would have thought given the expected numbers that it would have made more sense to start on the long straight like the Dublin Seniors so the crowds could spread out a bit before the first bend.

Either way, I'm really looking forward to this. Will be my first time running the National Novice and my form is coming good just in time. Thinking about my tactics already. Will likely have to give up my preferred sedate start. Course is tight enough down by the stream so will be difficult to overtake if you find yourself a way back.

Sacksian

Final session of 400s completed at lunchtime and 15mm spikes purchased, so just have to avoid injury between now and Sunday.

Race tactics will involve picking a pair of heels for the first 4 laps and then seeing what's left at the end. Controlled aggression at the start, which might be okay - looks like there's 600m or so before it narrows.

Sacksian

Preview of National Novice up on AI site now...

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/news/big-numbers-expected-at-glohealth-novice-uneven-age-xc-champs

I don't know that much about the contenders for the senior men, other than what I've seen from races or results, so I wouldn't know much about the younger guys. John Frazer is mentioned in the AI preview and he really did walk the Dublin novice - presumably this is a target for him too? I noticed a couple of the guys who finished ahead of him last year are also entered, including the 4th and 5th place finishers, as well as Thomas Hayes, who won the BHAA race on this course very comfortably a couple of weeks back.

I make it 288 entries but I'd imagine there will be a lot of dropouts between now and Sunday - should be well over 200 anyway. Even with that, there are still quite a few clubs that haven't entered teams in either the women's or men's.

RayCun

day after our club christmas party

Sacksian

RayCun wrote: »

day after our club christmas party

Fire the committee!

PVincent

The review misses maybe the favourite female ...Norah Newcombe Ballina AC ...now running under her married name

RayCun

I'm amused by the juxtaposition of those two posts :pac:

KielyUnusual

What is the team size and scorers for this? Can't see it on any of the notices.

Sacksian

It's 4 scorers for club and 6 for county.

The 2012-14 rule book says 8 names per club team and 12 for the county team but I think there's a new regulation whereby everyone entered for the club is on the same team and they just take the four scorers from that but I don't know if that's in effect yet - could get messy when you have multiple teams.

RayCun

8 and 4, I'm pretty sure

RayCun

Sacksian wrote: »

I think there's a new regulation whereby everyone entered for the club is on the same team and they just take the four scorers from that but I don't know if that's in effect yet - could get messy when you have multiple teams.

that basically means there is no limit on the number of runners you enter, and no decision about who to put on an A team and who on a B

KanyeWest

A/R Awards discussing whether Raheny 5 is better than Dunshaughlin 10k in another thread when the answer is right here. The National Novice is my race of the year.

200 plus athletes in the mens race, always good numbers in the women's race. You really need to be rocket fit to win it. Representation from all over Ireland. Clubs actually send teams to compete.

It is an absolute classic. Everyone should give it a lash at least once. It is some experience. Sunday will be my 4th year in a row.

It is an actual stampede at the start. It is such a competitive race. Often as amateur runners in Ireland, we are used to finishing in the top 10% of road races, and then you turn up at the Novice and Johnny 'sub 16' could only managed to sneak into the top 100. I love it. Its the annual reminder that there are good club athletes and there is some depth in Ireland. Best of luck to everyone running. See you on the line!

Sacksian

Well, I could be spreading misinformation here!

There were some motions at the AAI congress in April about removing the need to declare county teams - 2014 xc regulations mention them and the club aspect too:

http://www.athleticsireland.ie/downloads/other/Regulations.pdf

NEW MOTIONS PASSED AT CONGRESS APRIL 2014
The entry structure for some National Cross Country Events (and other events, if applicable) is simplified by ensuring that all athletes are entered for races by their clubs,
with automatic inclusion on their county team.

The entry structure for some National Cross Country Events (and other events, if applicable) is simplified by abolishing the need to declare specific teams on the day, and adopting a policy whereby the given number of athletes over the line are the scoring athletes for their club and/or county team.

Seems to suggest that a club's 5th-8th scorers are the b-team, rather than needing to declare one?

Sacksian

KanyeWest wrote: »

A/R Awards discussing whether Raheny 5 is better than Dunshaughlin 10k in another thread when the answer is right here. The National Novice is my race of the year.

200 plus athletes in the mens race, always good numbers in the women's race. You really need to be rocket fit to win it. Representation from all over Ireland. Clubs actually send teams to compete.

It is an absolute classic. Everyone should give it a lash at least once. It is some experience. Sunday will be my 4th year in a row.

It is an actual stampede at the start. It is such a competitive race. Often as amateur runners in Ireland, we are used to finishing in the top 10% of road races, and then you turn up at the Novice and Johnny 'sub 16' could only managed to sneak into the top 100. I love it. Its the annual reminder that there are good club athletes and there is some depth in Ireland. Best of luck to everyone running. See you on the line!

Same here - if you're in a club (and eligible) you really should experience it. I describe it as an 800m race over a 6km xc course!

Last year, I just sneaked into the top 100. No expectations as to how I'll go at the weekend but will happy enough with any improvement on that.

Good luck on Sunday!

KanyeWest

Sacksian wrote: »

Same here - if you're in a club (and eligible) you really should experience it. I describe it as an 800m race over a 6km xc course!

Last year, I just sneaked into the top 100. No expectations as to how I'll go at the weekend but will happy enough with any improvement on that.

Good luck on Sunday!

Nice one, same to you. Mind that first 800m thats all I'll say! Also, any hill in such a short xc race will be noticeable. That drag up from the river will be a b*tch. Got close to top 30 last year when I was shooting for a top 50, you never know. 20 seconds could cost you big time. Sure isn't it just like the NCAA XC and we're all D1 shtuds

downthemiddle

So how do people see this going? Is there anyone prepared to put their neck on the line and predict the first three across the line in both races and the team winners in both events?

Mackee

Never done any cross country before but somehow said I'd do this. Bad idea to make my debut up here? Very anxious I'll be last .

Sacksian

Mackee wrote: »

Never done any cross country before but somehow said I'd do this. Bad idea to make my debut up here? Very anxious I'll be last .

You'll be fine - it's competitive but there's a huge range of abilities doing it and it's a great experience. Check previous results if you want to put yourself at ease but I'd recommend running it whatever your standard.

Sacksian

downthemiddle wrote: »

So how do people see this going? Is there anyone prepared to put their neck on the line and predict the first three across the line in both races and the team winners in both events?

I wouldn't know enough about the guys outside Dublin/Leinster to put my neck on the line for the individual winners, but I'd love to hear any of the more informed views!

For the teams, it's doubly difficult to judge because there are a lot of clubs with 2 or 3 really strong runners who'll miss out on team medals because they don't have the same level of squad depth for their 4 scorers. Last year, Donore had a ridiculously strong team (4 scorers inside the top 20) but Rathfarnham got silver with their 3rd and 4th scorers finishing in the 40s and Leevale got bronze with a 4th scorer finishing 80th. Both silver and bronze teams only had one scorer inside the Top 20; it really is incredibly competitive for team medals.

For the Dublin teams, Crusaders and DSD seem to have stronger teams than they did in the Dublin Novice, and I'd think they'll challenge Donore for the first-finishing Dublin team. I think Clonliffe may have bulked up their team too.

Based on my limited knowledge, the women's team title will probably go to Dublin City Harriers. They've won the Dublin Novice, Leinster Novice, Dublin Intermediate and Leinster Intermediate in the past few months.

Tombo2001

Sacksian wrote: »

I wouldn't know enough about the guys outside Dublin/Leinster to put my neck on the line for the individual winners, but I'd love to hear any of the more informed views!

For the teams, it's doubly difficult to judge because there are a lot of clubs with 2 or 3 really strong runners who'll miss out on team medals because they don't have the same level of squad depth for their 4 scorers. Last year, Donore had a ridiculously strong team (4 scorers inside the top 20) but Rathfarnham got silver with their 3rd and 4th scorers finishing in the 40s and Leevale got bronze with a 4th scorer finishing 80th. Both silver and bronze teams only had one scorer inside the Top 20; it really is incredibly competitive for team medals.

For the Dublin teams, Crusaders and DSD seem to have stronger teams than they did in the Dublin Novice, and I'd think they'll challenge Donore for the first-finishing Dublin team. I think Clonliffe may have bulked up their team too.

Based on my limited knowledge, the women's team title will probably go to Dublin City Harriers. They've won the Dublin Novice, Leinster Novice, Dublin Intermediate and Leinster Intermediate in the past few months.

Its a pity there's no media around this, as in many ways its the most exciting cross country event of the year, and yet its hard to say who the favourites are.

downthemiddle

Sacksian wrote: »

I wouldn't know enough about the guys outside Dublin/Leinster to put my neck on the line for the individual winners, but I'd love to hear any of the more informed views!

For the teams, it's doubly difficult to judge because there are a lot of clubs with 2 or 3 really strong runners who'll miss out on team medals because they don't have the same level of squad depth for their 4 scorers. Last year, Donore had a ridiculously strong team (4 scorers inside the top 20) but Rathfarnham got silver with their 3rd and 4th scorers finishing in the 40s and Leevale got bronze with a 4th scorer finishing 80th. Both silver and bronze teams only had one scorer inside the Top 20; it really is incredibly competitive for team medals.

For the Dublin teams, Crusaders and DSD seem to have stronger teams than they did in the Dublin Novice, and I'd think they'll challenge Donore for the first-finishing Dublin team. I think Clonliffe may have bulked up their team too.

Based on my limited knowledge, the women's team title will probably go to Dublin City Harriers. They've won the Dublin Novice, Leinster Novice, Dublin Intermediate and Leinster Intermediate in the past few months.

Looking at the entries there are some quality athletes in both fields. If they compete athletes like Brian Kelly, Ben Thistlewood, The Chessers, Michael Carmody are all high class competitors. In the woman's race Rachel Smyth is in the start list and would be favourite if she competes, but is on the U23 team for the Europeans so may not want a hard race this weekend.
The Celtic DCH girls are having a great season with Niamh Donnelly excelling and Claire Brennan making a good return from injury. They have good depth in their team but some of the other clubs have much stronger teams than previously fielded. DSD have three good young athletes in Meghan Ryan, Sorcha Humphreys and Nicole Kenny who will really add strength to their team.
That is the beauty of the novice, it is only predictable in its' unpredictability.

Ceepo

KanyeWest wrote: »

A/R Awards discussing whether Raheny 5 is better than Dunshaughlin 10k in another thread when the answer is right here. The National Novice is my race of the year.

200 plus athletes in the mens race, always good numbers in the women's race. You really need to be rocket fit to win it. Representation from all over Ireland. Clubs actually send teams to compete.

It is an absolute classic. Everyone should give it a lash at least once. It is some experience. Sunday will be my 4th year in a row.

It is an actual stampede at the start. It is such a competitive race. Often as amateur runners in Ireland, we are used to finishing in the top 10% of road races, and then you turn up at the Novice and Johnny 'sub 16' could only managed to sneak into the top 100. I love it. Its the annual reminder that there are good club athletes and there is some depth in Ireland. Best of luck to everyone running. See you on the line!

Agreed. No better race in the country

KielyUnusual

How did everybody get on today?

This was my first National Novice today and I loved it. Thought the start was a bit of a mess. We (Crusaders) had been told that the start was at 3.15 so we were a little late getting over. There was no corralling in to teams either so had to start back a little bit on the line. Once we got going though, all this was forgotten. A few fallers over the first half a mile that caused a bit of havoc and it was crowded as hell. Hard to get in to any rhythm as there was a bit of a concertina effect at each corner that meant you were changing your rhythm constantly, slowing down to almost a stop at the apex of the corner and then haring off once you had any bit of space. Calmed down after half a lap and it was all about tagging on to a few runners and keeping on the edge without goin over. No idea where I finished and slightly worried that I was meant to register my chip but we'll see when they throw the results up on the AI website. I won't be holding my breath for that :P. Looking forward to next year already and moving up a few places in the rankings.

KielyUnusual

KielyUnusual wrote: »

No idea where I finished and slightly worried that I was meant to register my chip but we'll see when they throw the results up on the AI website. I won't be holding my breath for that :P.

I literally could have held my breath . Provisional results are up and my time was registered no problem. I'll never underestimate Athletics Ireland again

Results

Sacksian

KielyUnusual wrote: »

How did everybody get on today?

I said I was looking for a pair of heels but I ended up chasing you and a stocky Raheny guy for the entire race - closest I got to you was probably the finishing chute!

I did enjoy it though and I improved about 20 spots on last year, so can't be too disappointed. The quality of the race was incredible and, because the laps were so short, I didn't mind the 5 laps or find it a struggle.

Lots to take from it too - I need to get out a lot more quickly and I settled down far too soon - probably needed to push for at least 600-700m before doing that (which is what I'd do in a 5k on the road) with that size of field. So, will practise that strategy in the new year (or next autumn), depending on the direction of training. Also, track spikes are brilliant for xc.

Still haven't got it right and it's still my favourite race of the year!

KanyeWest

Well done gentlemen. Bitterly cold out there today. Started conservatively and moved through the field as best I could. I got close to the top 30 by the end of the 2nd lap, and then my lack of hard training caught up with me and I faded into the 50's. Happy with my final 300m as I passed around 7 or 8 guys, not easy sprint on muddy ground but it is a great feeling when you finish a race like that. Just managed a top 50 finish which I was half hoping for before the race.

youngrun

Had hoped to run this but a bad injury at Connacht xc has put me out of any hard training last 4 weeks . Went up with a few from club who ran it, to watch , great races in both , the starts are some spectacle. Thought there would be more in the mens than there was. Classy winners in both races. The standard is very deep, most of the top 50 would be 33s or better for 10k I guess.
These kind of races are great viewing and should or could be videoed or streamed I reckon maybe the JTG lads might give it a go on a suitable course.
A good run for the Sligo girl in novice to take third as well and some team medals from Galway so not a bad day for the women of the West . It was terribly cold , biting wind, I ended up running about 10*200m across and back the grass to keep warm and see the race in two spots and funny enough the hammer held up well...!

Timmaay

KanyeWest wrote: »

Well done gentlemen. Bitterly cold out there today. Started conservatively and moved through the field as best I could. I got close to the top 30 by the end of the 2nd lap, and then my lack of hard training caught up with me and I faded into the 50's. Happy with my final 300m as I passed around 7 or 8 guys, not easy sprint on muddy ground but it is a great feeling when you finish a race like that. Just managed a top 50 finish which I was half hoping for before the race.

Insane finish by loads of athletes, the finish really made it for me, you wouldn't see sprint finishes like that in most 800m races, not to mind after 6k of slippy muck! A video of that would have been great! I was talking to one of the officials at the finish line, they were 1/2 trying to keep a manual backup of as many of the finishers as they could, but quickly got overwhelming due to the shear number of athlete's flying across the line! Not often you get that sort of density across the line, even with well more than the 200 in the feild.

KielyUnusual

Timmaay wrote: »

Insane finish by loads of athletes, the finish really made it for me, you wouldn't see sprint finishes like that in most 800m races, not to mind after 6k of slippy muck! A video of that would have been great! I was talking to one of the officials at the finish line, they were 1/2 trying to keep a manual backup of as many of the finishers as they could, but quickly got overwhelming due to the shear number of athlete's flying across the line! Not often you get that sort of density across the line, even with well more than the 200 in the feild.

Yea, it was crazy busy. I reckon I made about 10-15 places in the last 200m. If I'd ran 10 seconds quicker I would have been another 10 places up again. The margins are so tight when there's that depth of quality.

The finish was a bit strange all right. I was a bit perturbed when they weren't keeping everybody in order but obviously they had the chip system set up. Surely they must have had a video at the finish line as a back up. There's a good video at the finish of Dublin Intermediates. Look out for a particularly fast finish from a former moderator round these parts.

Dublin Inters XC Finish

Timmaay

I counted what I think was 3 different backup cameras on the finish line gantry, pain in the arse to have to go back and check results but very very useful to have if sh1t hits the fan with missed tags which is bound to happen.

Krusty_Clown

KielyUnusual wrote: »

There's a good video at the finish of Dublin Intermediates. Look out for a particularly fast finish from a former moderator round these parts.

Dublin Inters XC Finish

... and a rather lonely finish 10 seconds later.

KielyUnusual

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

... and a rather lonely finish 10 seconds later.

Desperately, desperately lonely. Sure I was holding back for the National Novice of course .