Should the burning of Turf be made illegal now in Ireland these days?

Grayson

twin_beacon wrote: »

and how is not burning turf going to help, as the alternatives all involve burning another fossil fuel

That's a good point except you're taking my post completely out of context. The poster I was replying to was saying that global warming was a pile of crap. I was saying that it wasn't and I was outlying why.

Did you really need to misquote someone to make yourself feel good?

twin_beacon

Grayson wrote: »

That's a good point except you're taking my post completely out of context. The poster I was replying to was saying that global warming was a pile of crap. I was saying that it wasn't and I was outlying why.

Did you really need to misquote someone to make yourself feel good?

fair enough, is there really a need for the smart remark at the end though?

OpenYourEyes

twin_beacon wrote: »

am, no. This is a result of rusty water pipes. Hence why he was complaining.
Yes the bog filters water, but only in the summer. in the winter when we get lots of rain, the water that enters the rivers from the bogs doesn't get enough time to "settle" and deposit all the silt, as a result the water is brown leaving the bog.

While part of his complaint was the poor infrastructure, the initial treatment of the water (and need to treat it) is where most of the problems are in areas where water is undrinkable. Following on from that, but a lesser problem by comparison, is the poor infrastructure that results in huge losses of the water that we've gone to the expense of treating, plus possibly a minor issue of rusted pipes actually depositing rust in the water that comes out of the tap. You have a very oversimpified view of the problems though!

And my point is that intact bogs provide a very valuable service that damaged bogs do not. An intact bog slowly releases water, a damaged one has water flowing from it, which results in the deposit of a huge amount of peat/sediment and water pollution etc., particularly in winter The intact bog doesn't only filter water in the summer, though it might be more efficient at it then. You again have a very oversimplified and over-exaggerated view of the true events that occur.

Alun

twin_beacon wrote: »

Yes the bog filters water, but only in the summer. in the winter when we get lots of rain, the water that enters the rivers from the bogs doesn't get enough time to "settle" and deposit all the silt, as a result the water is brown leaving the bog.

We get brown water (to varying degrees) for a while here in Wicklow too sometimes. When there's sufficient flow through the peat, it's fine. There's some particulate matter but that can be filtered out. The problem is when the surface peat dries out over the summer, the first few rain showers just soak into it like a giant sponge, and stays there for a while. Only after a bit more rain does the water start flowing through it, and the water that was there for some time gets discoloured by tannins leached from the peat. You just can't do anything about that, and it's harmless as far as I know.

twin_beacon

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

While part of his complaint was the poor infrastructure, the initial treatment of the water (and need to treat it) is where most of the problems are in areas where water is undrinkable. Following on from that, but a lesser problem by comparison, is the poor infrastructure that results in huge losses of the water that we've gone to the expense of treating, plus possibly a minor issue of rusted pipes actually depositing rust in the water that comes out of the tap. You have a very oversimpified view of the problems though!

And my point is that intact bogs provide a very valuable service that damaged bogs do not. An intact bog slowly releases water, a damaged one has water flowing from it, which results in the deposit of a huge amount of peat/sediment and water pollution etc., particularly in winter The intact bog doesn't only filter water in the summer, though it might be more efficient at it then. You again have a very oversimplified and over-exaggerated view of the true events that occur.

wow, from my small post, you can determine that?
Im from roscommon, and understand very well how bogs work, and the issues relating piss that comes out of the taps in roscommon.

twin_beacon

Alun wrote: »

We get brown water (to varying degrees) for a while here in Wicklow too sometimes. When there's sufficient flow through the peat, it's fine. There's some particulate matter but that can be filtered out. The problem is when the surface peat dries out over the summer, the first few rain showers just soak into it like a giant sponge, and stays there for a while. Only after a bit more rain does the water start flowing through it, and the water that was there for some time gets discoloured by tannins leached from the peat. You just can't do anything about that, and it's harmless as far as I know.

yep spot on. The bogs in roscommon are different to wicklow though.
The issue in roscommon is mainly rusty pipes. We live near wild bogs, and Bord na Mona bogs. We have our own well drilled for the farm, the water out of it is perfect to drink.

OpenYourEyes

twin_beacon wrote: »

wow, from my small post, you can determine that?
Im from roscommon, and understand very well how bogs work, and the issues relating piss that comes out of the taps in roscommon.

Well if you feel you havn't conveyedd the breadth of your knowledge in that post, its your fault not mine!

And I'm also from Roscommon, I also understand very well how bogs work, and the issues relating to the piss that comes out of the taps in Roscommon.

Graces7

have a nice day.. too busy trying to stay warm to read any more of this..where did I put i the turf I was given? Ah yes! Some folk need a healthy dose of life as we old wan live it.
Bye bye!

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Graces7 wrote: »

have a nice day.. too busy trying to stay warm to read any more of this..where did I put i the turf I was given? Ah yes! Some folk need a healthy dose of life as we old wan live it.
Bye bye!

Yes, very constructive. And let's be honest for a while. You only want to burn turf because somebody gave it to you for free. If the free wood or free coal was delivered you'd swear by it too. As for life as we old wans live it: I suspect I am as old as, if not older than, you and I live life like most people do. I have my pension and I can afford to buy fuel. I have a warm home. Today is not in the depths of winter. We have a skiff of show on the hills here but it is surprisingly mild for December. It doesn't say much for the quality of all that turf if you are struggling to stay warm today. Maybe you realise now how inefficient a heat source it really is. The therms of heat from turf are dire compared to all other fuel sources measured by cost.

Green Fish

John_Rambo wrote: »

I always liked the hint of turf in the air when I travelled up and down the country, but lately it's gotten too much. The pollution is pretty bad with cheap coal and turf with so many people burning it.

It's nice to get back to the cleaner, coastal air in Dublin.

You're joking right I was in Dublin last weekend (rare visit) and the place just stinks. I always feel like I am breathing recycled air up there. The air in the west coast is supreme in comparison.

mikom

John_Rambo wrote: »

I always liked the hint of turf in the air when I travelled up and down the country, but lately it's gotten too much. The pollution is pretty bad with cheap coal and turf with so many people burning it.

It's nice to get back to the cleaner, coastal air in Dublin.

I remember that summer in Dublin, and the Liffey as it stank like hell.

John_Rambo

Green Fish wrote: »

You're joking right I was in Dublin last weekend (rare visit) and the place just stinks. I always feel like I am breathing recycled air up there. The air in the west coast is supreme in comparison.

:rolleyes: No you weren't!! I was in the city too and the air was clean, nice cold NorthWestely rolling over the city.

Dublin has the cleanest air. Read below before you come up with more stories about your visits and the stinks.

http://www.envirocentre.ie/News.aspx?ID=79D21E24-862B-4685-A66A-2D7059FB72E2&PID=a257bece-c1e7-464a-9cd0-fde10d3a18c3&NID=8ada77f6-d3f0-423f-882f-05926a82157e&M=2

http://www.herald.ie/news/dirty-dublin-weve-purest-air-in-country-29590896.html

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/dublin-tops-air-quality-index-map-243502.html

MadsL

joe912 wrote: »

considering that's what people have been burning for the last thousand years. The damage surely has already been done.

Yes, 47% of original boglands have already been destroyed, but due to mechanical extraction methods rather than human powered footing of turf bogs are being cut at a rate far exceeding the rate at which turf can be footed. There is almost no traditional cutting taking place - it is overwhelmingly commercial mechanised profit-driven exploitation.

OldRio wrote: »

I see the tree huggers are about. Burning the ould turf tonight. Cut it myself from my own bog this summer. Hard work but worth it.
China and India knocking vast amounts of pollution out as we type, but some on here would like me to stop burning my own turf. Haha. Good luck with that.

Oh, I best stop recycling my domestic waste then until China achieves a 100% recycling rate. In the meantime I'll burn my plastic in the garden.

twin_beacon wrote: »

well if you ban turf, people will just burn timber.
I have never seen visibility become an issue because people are burning turf

Timber can be sustainable. Turf is not.

RoboRat

Rather than banning the burning of fuels, the government should be offering incentives/ tax back / something for people who switch from a traditional fire to a stove or closed fire as they are far more efficient, require a lot less fuel and you don't lose 70% up the chimney.

John_Rambo

RoboRat wrote: »

Rather than banning the burning of fuels, the government should be offering incentives/ tax back / something for people who switch from a traditional fire to a stove or closed fire as they are far more efficient, require a lot less fuel and you don't lose 70% up the chimney.

It's a shame people have to be offered money, incentives, tax rebates to burn clean fuel. After all, it's in their interests. The smog and pollution that pervades the air in various rural areas makes me feel an all out countrywide ban on certain fuels is the only answer. I like the seasonal smells the winter has to offer and when you can smell it, it means your breathing healthy air.

Galwayguy35

MadsL wrote: »

Yes, 47% of original boglands have already been destroyed, but due to mechanical extraction methods rather than human powered footing of turf bogs are being cut at a rate far exceeding the rate at which turf can be footed. There is almost no traditional cutting taking place - it is overwhelmingly commercial mechanised profit-driven exploitation.



Oh, I best stop recycling my domestic waste then until China achieves a 100% recycling rate. In the meantime I'll burn my plastic in the garden.



Timber can be sustainable. Turf is not.

Maybe you should be a bit more bothered about the pollution the country you are living in is causing rather than telling us over here what we should be doing.

John_Rambo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Maybe you should be a bit more bothered about the pollution the country you are living in is causing

Maybe you should be a bit more bothered about the pollution the country you are living in is causing and the damage it's doing to the environment.

Galwayguy35

John_Rambo wrote: »

Maybe you should be a bit more bothered about the pollution the country you are living in is causing and the damage it's doing to the environment.

Bit rich for a Dub to be lecturing anyone on pollution, for decades ye were polluting the air with coal fires, even these days with the traffic levels in the city, I would be worried about my health breathing the air there.

John_Rambo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Bit rich for a Dub to be lecturing anyone on pollution, for decades ye were polluting the air with coal fires, even these days with the traffic levels in the city, I would be worried about my health breathing the air there.

Did you read the thread? Dublin has the cleanest air, the city has the healthiest people too by the way, we are far more likely to walk, cycle or get public transport. Individuals in the cities have less of an impact on the environment than people in one off housing in rural areas.

So, you see, it's not a bit rich.

mikom

John_Rambo wrote: »

Did you read the thread? Dublin has the cleanest air,

That's probably why it has the 2nd highest incidence of lung cancer in the whole country.......

whupdedo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Did you read the thread? Dublin has the cleanest air, the city has the healthiest people too by the way, we are far more likely to walk, cycle or get public transport. Individuals in the cities have less of an impact on the environment than people in one off housing in rural areas.

So, you see, it's not a bit rich.

That's a silly statement, by your logic we should all move to the cities and we'd be all carbon neutral, I live in a rural area and burn my own turf, should I cycle the 75 kilometres to work tomorrow with all the gear i need, we all don't live near a bus route or a dart line, and are not connected to gas networks, you do realise theirs a world outside the pale ?

Galwayguy35

John_Rambo wrote: »

Did you read the thread? Dublin has the cleanest air, the city has the healthiest people too by the way, we are far more likely to walk, cycle or get public transport. Individuals in the cities have less of an impact on the environment than people in one off housing in rural areas.

So, you see, it's not a bit rich.

Yeah you keep telling yourself that the amount of traffic in Dublin has no negative affect on the air you breath and you might even believe it after a while.

Meanwhile I live in an area with very few houses or traffic levels, I know which air I prefer to be going into my lungs.

John_Rambo

whupdedo wrote: »

That's a silly statement, by your logic we should all move to the cities and we'd be all carbon neutral, I live in a rural area and burn my own turf, should I cycle the 75 kilometres to work tomorrow with all the gear i need, we all don't live near a bus route or a dart line, and are not connected to gas networks, you do realise theirs a world outside the pale ?

That's not what I said at all. Please, read my posts. I said its a shame some people need hand outs to look after their own environment. I made the point about city dwellers being more carbon neutral because Galwayguy is very ill informed. And I spend a huge amount of time in rural areas. Probably more time than you spend in our clean air cities.

John_Rambo

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Meanwhile I live in an area with very few houses or traffic levels, I know which air I prefer to be going into my lungs.

Its a statistical fact! The EPA have done the tests, Dubln has the cleanest air. I'm afraid your local bar stool view of the city won't change that.

Andy From Sligo

John_Rambo wrote: »

Its a statistical fact! The EPA have done the tests, Dubln has the cleanest air. I'm afraid your local bar stool view of the city won't change that.

you cant argue with statistics .....

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

yes 100% it should be banned! and smokeless fuel laws should be enforced. Ennis is like Bejing after 6pm in the town centre. Nobody I tell cares because they all live out in the sticks and have no idea what I'm talking about.

RoboRat

John_Rambo wrote: »

It's a shame people have to be offered money, incentives, tax rebates to burn clean fuel. After all, it's in their interests. The smog and pollution that pervades the air in various rural areas makes me feel an all out countrywide ban on certain fuels is the only answer. I like the seasonal smells the winter has to offer and when you can smell it, it means your breathing healthy air.

I agree but its the only way for people to make the investment as a lot of people don't have the money to do so. Look at fuel efficient cars, people are happy to upgrade as the tax is lower, if this wasn't the case, a lot of people would just stick with their older cars. Unfortunately people need a carrot to change and global warming / their kids future etc is not a big enough carrot or they may not have the money to upgrade.

I am building next year and my house will be insulated to the max, have solar and possibly geo thermal with a fuel efficient stove. Emissions will be minimum and I am doing this for my kids and their kids.

OldRio

John_Rambo wrote: »

Did you read the thread? Dublin has the cleanest air, the city has the healthiest people too by the way, we are far more likely to walk, cycle or get public transport. Individuals in the cities have less of an impact on the environment than people in one off housing in rural areas.

So, you see, it's not a bit rich.

What is this concept you talk about ?
Public transport ?

When will this come to the rural west.

John_Rambo

OldRio wrote: »

What is this concept you talk about ?
Public transport ?

When will this come to the rural west.

I'm afraid rural areas don't do well on the public transport worldwide. And it won't happen as long as we pump money in to roads to service one off housing! Not everybody wants to live in towns, villages or cities so there's always going to be a negative impact on the environment if we have a scattered dispersed population.

In short. You just can't have it every way. You choose where you live.

Its Only Ray Parlour

John_Rambo wrote: »

I'm afraid rural areas don't do well on the public transport worldwide. And it won't happen as long as we pump money in to roads to service one off housing! Not everybody wants to live in towns, villages or cities so there's always going to be a negative impact on the environment if we have a scattered dispersed population.

In short. You just can't have it every way. You choose where you live.

Over 30% of Ireland's population live in rural areas. Only animal farmers must live in rural areas. the rest of them live in rural area because they're too cheap to build in an urban area or they just don't like urban areas, then they come onto broadband forum and complain about slow broadband.

Copper telephone lines can only provide decent broadband if they are less than 4km long and fibre broadband would cost a fortune to rollout and definitely would need to be subsidized (surprisingly, the government actually have plans to do it) by the urban customers an tax-payers.

Furthermore, the urban tax-payer already subsidizes the rural tax-payer, so rural Ireland is just a burden on the rest of us.

In Belgium, only 3% of the population live in rural areas. If they can live in urban areas, then so can we.