Seperation advice for the man

Joshua5

Hi guys,

I separated from my wife around 5 years ago. We have three kiddos and have a pretty good relationship as mates now. For the tricky piece, we both have new partners but there is a difference. Mine gets on with my ex and she is hard working etc. Her new partner is a bum. It's none of my business really except he lives in the family home, the home I fully pay for and doesn't contribute at all. He doesn't work, only on occasion so even the gas and elec bills are high from him setting up home. She tells me its none of my business but I think it's unfair I pay all towards a house she lives in with her new fello. In addition to that I'm sadly resorted to living with the aul one now. So basically I've worked all my life for that house, pay for it all and this bum walks in and sets up home without paying a penny while I still work all hours god sends to pay that mortgage and have to live with my ma!

Jamaican Me Crazy

Does your ex work? You mention her OH doesn't but if she does I don't see why she is not contributing to the mortgage. The relationship between your ex and her OH is their business and I am sure she will soon get fed up of him not contributing. Let her worry about that.

Seek legal advice and try to come up with a separation / divorce agreement that is fair and reasonable. You are separated long enough now.

Joshua5

Jamaican Me Crazy wrote: »

Does your ex work? You mention her OH doesn't but if she does I don't see why she is not contributing to the mortgage. The relationship between your ex and her OH is their business and I am sure she will soon get fed up of him not contributing. Let her worry about that.

Seek legal advice and try to come up with a separation / divorce agreement that is fair and reasonable. You are separated long enough now.

She's studying as a mature student so I'm happy to foot the bill for that reason. But bringing her OH to move in I was expecting he would also contribute then but he doesn't.

Jawgap

I'd hold off on letting slip the legal beagles for the moment.

Try mediation - if things are 'matey' between you and the ex, it's worth putting in the effort to keep it that way. I'd suggest having a chat with her and raising the idea of mediation.

If she is against the idea or refuses to engage then at least if you do eventually go the legal route you'll have the advantage of being able to tell the judge you tried mediation.

Quite simply you shouldn't be paying for everything.

howamidifferent

Joshua5 wrote: »

She's studying as a mature student so I'm happy to foot the bill for that reason. But bringing her OH to move in I was expecting he would also contribute then but he doesn't.

Seeing as you & your wife are joint owners, can you not charge him rent...
If he wont pay then deduct his rent from your share of the bills..
Charge him under the rent a room scheme so you have no landlord obligations to him...and he gets no rights...

She wont be long getting it out of him...or getting rid of him...

Jawgap

howamidifferent wrote: »

Seeing as you & your wife are joint owners, can you not charge him rent...
If he wont pay then deduct his rent from your share of the bills..
Charge him under the rent a room scheme so you have no landlord obligations to him...and he gets no rights...

She wont be long getting it out of him...or getting rid of him...

He can't be charged 'rent.'

howamidifferent

Jawgap wrote: »

He can't be charged 'rent.'

Why not?

Jamaican Me Crazy

I wouldn't allow my OH to contribute to the mortgage on my house but my ex doesn't contribute either.
My OH would have paid towards bills, grocery shopping or whatever.

This is between you and your ex. Fair play to you for keeping up the mortgage while she is studying but once that is finished I assume she will try to seek employment in her chosen field and then you won't have the full burden anymore.
But this really is between you and your ex only. I know it's annoying but new partners really need to be left out of things.

Jawgap

howamidifferent wrote: »

Why not?

Because he's co-habiting as her partner presumably at her invitation.

Jamaican Me Crazy

I also agree that mediation could be a good option here if things are amicable. Try to keep them that way.

Joshua5

howamidifferent wrote: »

Why not?

I did consider this to be honest. I'm walking a tight line here, trying to keep my kids ok and her happy too. It's nothing to do with the fact she has a new guy so I'm mindful I don't want it to look like that. The issue is, there is a chap living in the house I pay for and he doesn't hand up a penny. It speaks volumes for him alone, because pride alone would have me eaten alive if I was him. If he paid his way I could easily afford to move closer to the kiddos

howamidifferent

Joshua5 wrote: »

I did consider this to be honest. I'm walking a tight line here, trying to keep my kids ok and her happy too. It's nothing to do with the fact she has a new guy so I'm mindful I don't want it to look like that. The issue is, there is a chap living in the house I pay for and he doesn't hand up a penny. It speaks volumes for him alone, because pride alone would have me eaten alive if I was him. If he paid his way I could easily afford to move closer to the kiddos

Well then if as the other poster says you cant charge him rent then perhaps a discussion with your wife about the "3" adults splitting the bills 3 ways is in order. That way, she asks him for the money...

Jawgap

BTW, OP - continue to 'pay' the mortgage.

If you do negotiate a settlement, make it plain that any contribution received towards the mortgage is not described as such - also make it clear that in the event of the house being sold the equity still divides 50:50 between you and your ex as you both, I presume, hold the house in a joint tenancy - you wouldn't want laddo getting a share, or if he does it comes from your ex's element of the equity.

If I were you (I was, once ) - I'd at least get some form of mediated agreement in writing covering the kids, property etc. Hopefully you'll remain on good terms with herself and you can stick any agreement in a drawer and forget about it, but it'll be worth having if things get awkward.

Joshua5

Jawgap wrote: »

BTW, OP - continue to 'pay' the mortgage.

If you do negotiate a settlement, make it plain that any contribution received towards the mortgage is not described as such - also make it clear that in the event of the house being sold the equity still divides 50:50 between you and your ex as you both, I presume, hold the house in a joint tenancy - you wouldn't want laddo getting a share, or if he does it comes from your ex's element of the equity.

If I were you (I was, once ) - I'd at least get some form of mediated agreement in writing covering the kids, property etc. Hopefully you'll remain on good terms with herself and you can stick any agreement in a drawer and forget about it, but it'll be worth having if things get awkward.

Things are already awkward because if he's about I'm not allowed into my own house LOL

Jawgap

Definitely mediation is your first step (and hopefully the last one).

Joshua5

Jawgap wrote: »

Definitely mediation is your first step (and hopefully the last one).

an you tell me briefly what's involved in your experience during that process? She's a mature student so I've a feeling what ever way this goes I'll get fleeced.

Jawgap

Joshua5 wrote: »

an you tell me briefly what's involved in your experience during that process? She's a mature student so I've a feeling what ever way this goes I'll get fleeced.

Ok, well first thing is to get a mediator, the Family Mediation Service would be a good starting point. Ring them up and have a chat with them and they'll explain the process in more detail.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/separation_and_divorce/family_mediation_service.html

Once both you and the ex agree to mediation and communicate that to FMS they'll arrange the first session. And off it goes from there. The mediators are pretty good, in my experience. You both get to have your say, then the mediator will tease out the issues (this may take several sessions) - if they are really good you probably will feel like they're almost not there as they nudge and steer you both towards an agreement you can both live with.

Once the agreement is settled on you both get a copy. If you want you can take that to a solicitor and use it as the basis for getting a judicial separation.

The mediator will explain the ground rules from the outset, including what's appropriate in terms of language, but the two most important ones, imo, were 'nothing is agreed until everything is agreed' and 'don't personalise' issues.

Don't assume she'll get everything she wants - the mediator is looking for a fair and equitable agreement to emerge. Also, while it's important to be constructive, don't be too generous in your offers.

Joshua5

I'd have to know before I try that sort of thing, what is the faith of the man... In other words, I have to pay the mortgage since she doesn't earn so where am I suppose to live the next ten or so years?

Jamaican Me Crazy

Joshua5 wrote: »

I'd have to know before I try that sort of thing, what is the faith of the man... In other words, I have to pay the mortgage since she doesn't earn so where am I suppose to live the next ten or so years?

Surely she is not going to be in full time education forever? As soon as she has her qualifications won't she be looking for a job, otherwise why is she doing it? You do not have to pay for everything.
Also maybe I took you up wrong but are you paying the utilities also?

Jawgap

Joshua5 wrote: »

I'd have to know before I try that sort of thing, what is the faith of the man... In other words, I have to pay the mortgage since she doesn't earn so where am I suppose to live the next ten or so years?

You are not expected to put yourself in the 'poor house' - any fair agreement requires compromise by all. It's unlikely the house would be sold (not while the kids are in school) but you need to house yourself - mediators and the courts recognise and accept that, as well as the fact that you need to retain a certain level of income to play a full and proper role as the kids' Dad.

They'll also tell you that in a separation / divorce each party has to accept a diminution in their lifestyles - it's inevitable because one household becomes two. I don't know - but it sounds like she has not had to compromise as much as you.

Just a note, but mediation is free.

Joshua5

Jamaican Me Crazy wrote: »

Surely she is not going to be in full time education forever? As soon as she has her qualifications won't she be looking for a job, otherwise why is she doing it? You do not have to pay for everything.
Also maybe I took you up wrong but are you paying the utilities also?

I pay toward the utilities and childminding costs. She has 3 years to run on this course and god knows how long before she gets a job in Ireland. She gets some social welfare, it's not much but when I say I pay for everything the kids need I mean everything.

I've been working abroad because of recession and sending back the mula to keep the mortgage and bills etc etc but I'm back a couple of months now and half of me wishes I didn't come back because I have no home really.

bjork

Joshua5 wrote: »

I pay toward the utilities and childminding costs. She has 3 years to run on this course and god knows how long before she gets a job in Ireland. She gets some social welfare, it's not much but when I say I pay for everything the kids need I mean everything.

I've been working abroad because of recession and sending back the mula to keep the mortgage and bills etc etc but I'm back a couple of months now and half of me wishes I didn't come back because I have no home really.

I hope the social welfare are aware of her new live in partner

Jawgap

bjork wrote: »

I hope the social welfare are aware of her new live in partner

If I were you OP I would ignore whatever she and him are claiming or not claiming from SW.

Joshua5

Jawgap wrote: »

If I were you OP I would ignore whatever she and him are claiming or not claiming from SW.

I agree, it's none of my business really

desbrook

Joshua5 wrote: »

I agree, it's none of my business really

Absolutely not. Her income and his are most definitely your business. The lack of is supposedly why you are funding them. Get legal advice fast. The longer this goes on the more committed you are to funding everything.

Jawgap

desbrook wrote: »

Absolutely not. Her income and his are most definitely your business. The lack of is supposedly why you are funding them. Get legal advice fast. The longer this goes on the more committed you are to funding everything.

Sorry, my point was 'don't grass her up to SW' - she'll know it was him.

Mediation first would my advice. Although in my situation it didn't work, it ultimately played very well with the judge that I had evidence that I actively initiated the process and made a decent effort to get my ex to engage with it.

No harm in getting legal advice at the same time, just always be aware of how things might be perceived in court.

desbrook

If anything is to be done properly a statement of means has to be completed on both sides. That's just fact. If they are fiddling the SW great that'll give him the upper hand.

Murt10

bjork wrote: »

I hope the social welfare are aware of her new live in partner

It doesn't matter whether SW are aware of whether she is living with another man or not.

Once she qualified for the Third Level Allowance at the start of her course, she continues to keep it until the end. Doesn't matter even if you reconcile and move back in with her as husband and wife, she would still keep it.

The fact that you are paying all the mortgage means that she is not claiming Rent Allowance, so there is nothing to be gained from reporting this either.

I wish I was wrong but it's one of the major anomalies of the system, I'm afraid.

Joshua5

Murt10 wrote: »

It doesn't matter whether SW are aware of whether she is living with another man or not.

Once she qualified for the Third Level Allowance at the start of her course, she continues to keep it until the end. Doesn't matter even if you reconcile and move back in with her as husband and wife, she would still keep it.

The fact that you are paying all the mortgage means that she is not claiming Rent Allowance, so there is nothing to be gained from reporting this either.

I wish I was wrong but it's one of the major anomalies of the system, I'm afraid.

Exactly, so because of the relationship breakdown I'm homeless because the mortgage has to be paid and she hasn't the funds to pay it so it's up to me otherwise it's handing the keys back to the bank and I don't want that for my kids.

desbrook

Joshua5 wrote: »

Exactly, so because of the relationship breakdown I'm homeless because the mortgage has to be paid and she hasn't the funds to pay it so it's up to me otherwise it's handing the keys back to the bank and I don't want that for my kids.

Both parents have a duty to look after the kids\house so really her and her fella must contribute. A statement of means will find out how much. Anyway if the keys get handed back they can live in rented accommodation. Is that sooo bad???

Jawgap

desbrook wrote: »

Both parents have a duty to look after the kids\house so really her and her fella must contribute. A statement of means will find out how much. Anyway if the keys get handed back they can live in rented accommodation. Is that sooo bad???

Yes, it's called winning the battle and losing the war. You think the kids will ever forget (or be allowed forget) the role their Dad played in forcing them to give up their home, maybe change schools and move away from their friends into rented accommodation?